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Dystram posted:lol @ anyone who disagrees with you being a racist and red-piller, just lol. Irony is bullshit.
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Dec 27, 2014 19:49
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Dystram posted:Goldeneye. Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:Goldeneye is pretty good.
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Dec 27, 2014 20:51
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Probably but I think it’s pretty decent, and definitely the best of the Brosnan era. It does some cool stuff with the ideas of old fashioned Bond-style masculinity. I don’t think Tomorrow Never Dies is as terrible as everyone says as long as you go into it as a continuation of Moore’s era. The last half an hour action sequence is poo poo though.
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Dec 27, 2014 20:54
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Sasquatch! posted:Is it fair to propose that a lot of people liked Goldeneye based on the popularity of the N64 game at the time? Perhaps. It was the first Bond I'd seen, and with the previous Bond Film having been released in '89, I'm sure it served as an introduction to the franchise for many. It's certainly the best Brosnan film; I'm not sure if that speaks to the quality of Goldeneye or the lack of where the other films are concerned.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:02
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monster on a stick posted:I've never seen a Brosnan Bond movie because they looked kind of dumb. If I'm going to give the bloke a chance, which movie should it be? And I gather "Die Another Day" is the "A View to a Kill" of its time? Die Another Day happened when the producers worried about losing the youth audience because their hero might be seen as old-fashioned, so they EXXXXTREMED! it up with sports and Madonna and speed-ramping and and CGI and drum 'n' bass... and also threw in a load of pointless references to the older movies. Because there's nothing the cool kids love more than nostalgia for the decades before they were born. To sum it up in two words: invisible car.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:06
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It has Famke Janssen who orgasms at murdering people and crushes men between her thighs. Goldeneye is worth it for that.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:07
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Sasquatch! posted:Is it fair to propose that a lot of people liked Goldeneye based on the popularity of the N64 game at the time? Not really, GoldenEye 64 came out when the film itself was on home video. People really liked the film when it came out and the difference between it and its sequel is pretty evident.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:07
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Gatts posted:It has Famke Janssen who orgasms at murdering people and crushes men between her thighs. Goldeneye is worth it for that. also great character bits by Alan Cumming and Robbie Coltrane. and Boris's death is one of my all time favorite movie deaths.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:23
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teacup posted:It actually is racist, or ignorant, and you're wrong. It's not racist to want a character to be a certain race if that character calls for it. I think the most important thing is that Bond be portrayed as a British imperialist stooge. But black people can be imperialist stooges just as well as white people can, so it's a complete non-issue.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:32
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The big issue about race is that it doesn't actually exist, except as a social concept (it is nonsensical categorization that is just a dumb way of saying "that person looks different, lets give that different look a name!"). Therefore, the only time that it is part of a characterization of a character is when that social categorization directly comes into play in some manner. That's why it's basically idiotic/racist to complain when "white" people are portrayed by "black" characters - their characters generally have nothing to do with their social position in particular, so race literally does not matter or come into play at all. It's no different at all than hair color or something else. Craig did get some uproar for being a blonde Bond, to be fair.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:37
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Darko posted:Craig did get some uproar for being a blonde Bond, to be fair. It's true, but that was also a stupid complaint, so I don't know why some are arguing for the legitimacy of positions they claim to not even hold. "Oh no this recast character looks different!" seems a pretty dumb complaint for a character on the cusp of his 7th official incarnation. As I recall, no one bitched about casting Jeffrey Wright as Felix Leiter, when he'd been played by a million white dudes up to then.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:41
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Hewlett posted:It's true, but that was also a stupid complaint, so I don't know why some are arguing for the legitimacy of positions they claim to not even hold. Wright as Leiter in the 60s would've been bold, as the CIA would've just been desegregated. Now it barely rates. Bond's barely different, for whichever point you wish to make.
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Dec 27, 2014 21:52
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Every guy they name as "wanted" for Bond is already too old, Fassbender and Elba being the prime examples. Elba looks a hell of a lot younger than Craig, especially when he's not rocking the "touch of gray" look. (Elba also actually is younger than Craig.) Ditto with Fassbender, who I always thought would make a pretty great Bond. He's only 37, which is only 5 years older than Connery was when he first portrayed Bond and 4 years younger than Connery was in Diamonds are Forever. Hell, Connery was 52 in Never Say Never Again, and while they built that movie around the idea of an aging Bond, it's not like he was a geriatric or anything. Elba's expiration date would probably be around the same as Craig's, but getting 4 films out of him would still be pretty cool. Connery was also wearing a toupee as Bond from the very beginning due to premature balding, so it's not like a bit of makeup / Hollywood magic couldn't make Elba or Fassbender look a bit younger if that's what they wanted. Personally, I always picture Bond as being in his mid-to-late thirties anyway, since he's supposed to be a superspy with tons of experience.
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Dec 27, 2014 22:00
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I find it amusing the best modern Bond is the one that stepped away from a lot of the model of the previous in Casino Royale and poked fun at it. Bond jot as suave and assured, Stephanie Broadchest, etc. Then Skyfall that sort of examined the tradintional Bond and showed how it wasn't good in a modern context. Hopefully the next Bond doesn't rehash the beats of ehat came before and does something new for the franchise or genre. Or we could just have a Bond and Ethan Hunt crossover.
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Dec 27, 2014 22:00
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Sasquatch! posted:Is it fair to propose that a lot of people liked Goldeneye based on the popularity of the N64 game at the time? Never played it, don't know anyone who did. It's a pretty excellent Bond by being Bond as gently caress and still this side of plausible. Just. Shut up.
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Dec 27, 2014 23:09
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Not really, GoldenEye 64 came out when the film itself was on home video. People really liked the film when it came out and the difference between it and its sequel is pretty evident.
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Dec 27, 2014 23:16
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Sasquatch! posted:I meant the reason that people NOW look back fondly at Goldeneye. But good point. Oh, in that case I would put submit "every other Brosnan Bond movie". A real "you never had it so good" kind of thing.
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Dec 27, 2014 23:25
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I think it's great that Idris is up for the next Bond tenure, just as long as he only sleeps with desperate fifty year old divorcees who want to sleep with a black man. But in seriousness, maybe back in more innocent times, this would have been ok. Ben Kingsley played Ghandi and lots of ther examples, but now race is a HUGE issue, and needs to be tackled before people can even think to start thinking about Bond going black. Idris could have a trial period with a Shaft remake, see how that goes?
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Dec 27, 2014 23:27
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Darko posted:Therefore, the only time that it is part of a characterization of a character is when that social categorization directly comes into play in some manner. And Bond is often described as being from a working class background, in Craig's case to the point of resenting the entrenched wealth surrounding him in his current life as a spy (a plot point in Casino Royale.) That'd be an even more visceral reality for a black Bond working for MI6. So they could go there.
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Dec 28, 2014 00:11
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Not really, GoldenEye 64 came out when the film itself was on home video. People really liked the film when it came out and the difference between it and its sequel is pretty evident. I think Goldeneye stands alone as one of my Top 3 Bond films period. It's got a killer opening, a great villain, solid action sequences, and a decent femme fatale. It also keeps everything moving for a tidy 130 minutes and is plain fun to watch.
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Dec 28, 2014 00:23
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osietra posted:Idris could have a trial period with a Shaft remake, see how that goes? Would this be a remake of the Samuel L. Jackson remake or the original?
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Dec 28, 2014 00:29
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Xealot posted:And Bond is often described as being from a working class background, in Craig's case to the point of resenting the entrenched wealth surrounding him in his current life as a spy (a plot point in Casino Royale.) I thought he came from a wealthy background, attending prestigious private schools and such. Doesn't matter. He can still be black.
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Dec 28, 2014 00:35
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Hewlett posted:"Oh no this recast character looks different!" seems a pretty dumb complaint for a character on the cusp of his 7th official incarnation. As I recall, no one bitched about casting Jeffrey Wright as Felix Leiter, when he'd been played by a million white dudes up to then. Bernie Casey was the best Felix Leiter. 
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Dec 28, 2014 01:07
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Cnut the Great posted:I thought he came from a wealthy background, attending prestigious private schools and such. Probably true at different times. In Casino Royale, there's that scene where Vesper psychoanalyzes him on a train, and asserts he attended fancy boarding schools on "someone else's dime" and thus has a chip on his shoulder. It's probably a retcon, but clearly they decided it was important to re-characterize Bond as working class for the Craig movies.
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Dec 28, 2014 02:58
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It's because the myth that an Eton-educated trust-funder can conquer any place where you can't drink the water with nothing but his manly resolve isn't viable in the 21st century.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:04
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Xealot posted:Probably true at different times. True. But if you take Skyfall into account, it certainly seems like his family had some sort of ancestral wealth at one point, though it may not count for much anymore. Obviously there are black Scotsmen, but I'm not sure how plausible it would be for one to have come from a background like that (I honestly don't know, maybe there are some). But it's not like Skyfall being James Bond's ancestral home is some huge important part of the character. And like I said, if you really wanted to, you could keep the entire backstory and just not go into exactly who his ancestors were.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:33
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Obviously the only option for James Bond now is a 15 year old computer hacker/extreme skateboarder who has rad street cred and has been in and out of trouble with the legal system driven by his need to show up the adults keeping him down.Payndz posted:To sum it up in two words: invisible car. I loved how insane and ultimately pointless the invisible car was. Noxville posted:How can Bond be an experienced agent in 1962 but a novice 44 years later? It doesn't make any sense. Well, see, actually every male in the family is named James Bond. It's a tradition.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:43
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re: race, they could split the difference and have Wentworth Miller play Bond.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:50
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Roadie posted:Obviously the only option for James Bond now is a 15 year old computer hacker/extreme skateboarder who has rad street cred and has been in and out of trouble with the legal system driven by his need to show up the adults keeping him down. I believe this is the premise of the upcoming film, Kingsman: The Secret Service.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:50
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I believe this is the premise of the upcoming film, Kingsman: The Secret Service. It's Mark Millar's XXX basically.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:50
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Alfred P. Pseudonym posted:I believe this is the premise of the upcoming film, Kingsman: The Secret Service. That was the noise of the joke whooshing over your head.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:54
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Roadie posted:That was the noise of the joke whooshing over your head. 
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Dec 28, 2014 03:55
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Now I kind of want to see a fan film that has normal actors for everyone else but changes who Bond is every time there's a camera cut and gets gradually crazier as it goes on. Tall Bond, short Bond, fat Bond, skinny Bond, black Bond, Asian Bond, Inuit Bond, Native American Bond, Sikh Bond with a giant turban, nun Bond, Swiss Guard Bond with full brightly colored costume, samurai Bond in full armor, circus Bond on stilts, superhero Bond with laser vision, space astronaut Bond, E.T. Bond, and so on.
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Dec 28, 2014 03:59
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Isn't that basically the premise of the Woody Allen version of Casino Royale?
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Dec 28, 2014 04:10
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Only if the last shot is Peter Sellers. Edit: Goddamn, beaten.
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Dec 28, 2014 04:11
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Can we have a Batarian Bond?
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Dec 28, 2014 05:17
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If we're going to have Bond race chat, can we at last have fun race chat by talking about how batshit insane Live and Let Die is? Because that movie kind of transcends ordinary racism and goes right into the plaid. This is a movie where a Caribbean dictator is also a Harlem drug lord whose secret underground lairs are in the basements of a chain of seafood restaurants extending from New York to Louisiana. He also runs a voodoo cult on the side that might, in fact, use actual for-real magic. And he stages parades of black people in New Orleans for the purpose of stabbing secondary characters in broad daylight and then throwing dance parties in the street over said murders. I used the plural because this happens twice. Naturally, he keeps a hot white woman prisoner and looms menacingly over her a lot, because at this point why the gently caress not, but did you know that she's also an actual witch whose magic powers are deactivated by sex? He also has a squad of black Louisiana speedboat assassins, which would headline a list of insane things in any other movie but is just a footnote here because of the alligator farm drug lab in the buttfuck swamp run by the dude with the robot claw arm who I forgot to mention earlier. It's like loving Housu level surrealism, only with black people instead of evil spirits. Except it also has evil spirits. And robot murder scarecrows. And pimpmobiles with remote-controlled guns.. That said, one of my favorite characters is a black CIA agent who helps James Bond escape from being murdered in an alley in Harlem for being super dumb, points out how stupid the entire scenario we just saw actually was, and then disappears from the movie until the inevitable New Orleans Kill Parade murders him out of nowhere because they just couldn't help themselves..
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Dec 28, 2014 05:20
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Live and Let Die owns.
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Dec 28, 2014 05:28
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monster on a stick posted:I've never seen a Brosnan Bond movie because they looked kind of dumb. If I'm going to give the bloke a chance, which movie should it be? And I gather "Die Another Day" is the "A View to a Kill" of its time? No, Die Another Day is actually terrible.
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Dec 28, 2014 06:00
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The book Live Or Let Die is hilarious.
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Dec 28, 2014 06:01
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