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Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



I figured this was worth double posting; a run down of the various powers-that-be in the digital world and how they stack up in regards to one another. I originally wrote it for my Tumblr and updated it with the new information that's come out. This only covers the mythology of the Digital World as covered in Bandai’s Digimon profiles; all of the various Digimon series deal with this differently and have their own backstory for the Digital World and its various hierarchy.

So, with that in mind, let’s begin:

Deities

The creator of the Digital World is "God"; naturally, he is based on the God of the Abrahamic religions. “God” is the creator of the Digital World, and dwells at the center of the Digital World, or “Kernel”. He is said to be a being of “infinite wisdom” and “infinite love.” It is suspected that "God" might, in fact, be a human being.

However, “God” is not the only higher power in the Digital World. There is also Yggdrasil, the “host computer” of the Digital World. This is just speculation, but if “God” is the creator, “Yggdrasil” is the “server”, and maintains the Digital World’s structure, stability, and security. Of the two, Yggdrasil is prone to the most action, acting through its various agents and even taking physical form in various incarnations. Yggdrasil is based on the World Tree of Norse Mythology, which supported the world itself. There is also another host computer that serves Yggdrasil in another Digital World called Homeros; how this exactly works, but by all intents and purposes, the Digital Worlds are linked, it's just Homeros and Iliad exist on a different "server".

Thirdly, there is Huanglongmon. Though the Digimon is obscenely powerful and was once called the “ruler” of the Digital World, Huanlongmon is more a “physical god” in contrast to the comparatively more abstract “God” and Yggdrasil. Huanglongmon ruled the Digital World of the past, but was deposed by a “certain Angel digimon” and sealed beneath the Earth. Huanglongmon is a being that described as “good as well as evil”, and exists as a balance of light and darkness. Its body is covered by Huanglong Ore, which is the basis for the metal “Chrondigizoit”. Huanglongmon is based on the fifth beast of the Chinese Sì Xiàng, as well as the Yellow Emperor, Huangdi, of China.

Higher Powers

"God", Yggdrasil, and Huanlongmon have several groups associated with them.

The Three Great Angels protect the Kernel in which “God” dwells, and are thus the closest beings to him. They are Seraphimon, Ofanimon, and Cherubimon. Furthermore, other Angel Digimon are close to “God”, and serve to protect him. However, being in such proximity to “God” gives the Angel Digimon equal potential to fall to wickedness, and indeed, the Three Great Angels each have a corrupted form: For Seraphimon, the Demon Lord Demon; Ofanimon the Demon Lord Lilithmon, or the justice-minded Ofanimon Falldown Mode; and for Cherubimon the dark, corrupted form that is merely known as Cherubimon (Virus).

Other Angel Digimon have fallen as well. Lucemon is the most notable case, as it descended upon the Digital World and ended Huanglongmon’s rule before he too was deposed (more on that later). There is also Bagramon, who rebelled due to disgust with “God’s” sense of justice, and though he would be absolved of its crimes if he repented, Bagramon refuses and seeks to replace “God’s Justice” with its own.

Yggdrasil, meanwhile, is associated with the Royal Knights, who are by far the most powerful beings in the Digital World. Their ranks include Alphamon, Omegamon, Magnamon, Dynasmon, LordKnightmon, Craniummon, Sleipmon, UlforceV-dramon, Duftmon, Dukemon, Examon, Gankoomon, and Jesmon. Alphamon is generally considered the leader, but is often absent. The Royal Knights themselves only appear in times of great crisis, and in general, act in a manner that is in accordance with their belief in right and wrong. Oftentimes, they also follow the will of Yggdrasil, who is motivated by cold logic. One of the exceptions to this is Gankoomon, who acts with his own discretion and has gathered many friends in his travels in the southwest frontier of the Digital World. Likewise, Jesmon, who evolved from Gankoomon's pupil Hackmon, shows much more willingness to fight and coordinate with others, and intervenes whenever danger arises.

As for the group’s origins, the Royal Knights were founded by Imperialdramon Paladin Mode. His reasons for doing so are unknown, and he himself is not considered a member. In any case, Imperialdramon Paladin Mode seems to no longer exist in the Digital World.

Now we come to the Four Holy Beasts, who protect the North, South, West, and East of the Digital World. Their names are Xuanwumon, the turtle, Zhuqiaomon, the red phoenix, Qinglongmon, the blue dragon, and Baihumon, the white tiger. Though they lost their rule of the Digital World when Huanglongmon was sealed within the earth, they retain their guardianship of the cardinal directions and continue to protect them. Their servants are the Twelve Deva, which each Holy Beast lording over three: Khumbiramon, Vajramon, and Vikararamon for Xuanwumon; Indaramon, Pajramon, and Sandiramon for Zhuqiaomon; Andiramon, Majiramon, and Mihiramon for Qinglongmon; and Makuramon, Caturamon, and Sinduramon for Baihumon.

Other Powers

The servants of the three so-called gods are not the only powerful forces in the Digital World. There are others that have shaped the history and affect the balance of power of this world as well.

Though they are long since dead, the Ten Warriors played a critical role in the Digital World’s history. When Lucemon descended, AncientGreymon, AncientGarurumon, AncientIrismon, AncientBeetmon, AncientMegatheriumon, AncientSphinxmon, AncientWisemon, AncientMermaimon, AncientVolcamon, and AncientTroiamon all rose to oppose him. Ultimately, Lucemon was sealed away, and though the Ten Warriors lost their lives, they passed their data on to the various digimon archetypes they represented. Additionally, what was left of their data became the Legendary Spirits that can be used to evolve to Hybrid Digimon.

Then there are the Olympus Twelve. Rivaling the Royal Knights in power, the Olympus Twelve are not bound to any master, though they exist in the Digital World of Iliad and are overseen by Homeros. Like the Royal Knights, they only act in matters of great import, but maintain a neutral standpoint in doing so. However, they are considered defenders of the Digital World all the same. Their leader is Jupitermon, and their ranks include Apollomon, Dianamon, Minervamon (and her alter ego Mervamon), Marsmon, Mercurymon, Neptunemon, Vulcanusmon, Venusmon, Ceresmon, Bacchusmon, and Junomon. Strongly associated with the group are Plutomon, an enigmatic Digimon who hunts and executes criminals, and Titamon, a digimon who was born from the data of those slain in the Olympus Twelve’s rise to power and who has an undying hatred of the group.

Finally, there are the Four Great Dragons. Their purpose is unknown, but their ranks include Goddramon, Holydramon, Qinglongmon (I guess he moonlights), and the “problem child” Megidramon. Again, their purpose is unknown, but considering their ranks include Megidramon, odds are their motivation is somewhat complex. We do know that they are in charge of issuing a test known as the "Trial of the Four Great Dragons", which only Dragon Digimon can undertake.

Demonic Forces

I spoke earlier that Angel Digimon have great potential to “fall”; no group represents this fact more than the Seven Great Demon Lords, who are by far the most dangerous enemies of “good” in the Digimon pantheon. Though they identify as a group, the Demon Lords rarely act together, and oftentimes pursue their own goals. They are strongly associated with the Dark Area, a land whose very essence they are tied to, and when wicked digimon die, their data is sent to the Dark Area, where they in turn become part of the “flesh and blood” of the Demon Lords.

Each of the Demon Lords represents one of the Seven Deadly Sins and bears a crest with the symbol of said sin as well as “Purgatory Level” that corresponds to their relative threat level, with the lowest number corresponding to the one requiring the highest number of caution:

Purgatory Level 7 - Lilithmon, who represents Lust and was once an Ofanimon.
Purgatory Level 6 - Beelzebumon, who represents Gluttony.
Purgatory Level 5 - Barbamon, who represents Greed.
Purgatory Level 4 - Belphemon, who represents Sloth.
Purgatory Level 3 - Leviamon, who represents Envy and is the largest and most physically powerful of the Demon Lords.
Purgatory Level 2 - Demon, who represents Wrath and was once a Seraphimon.
Purgatory Level 1 - Lucemon Falldown Mode, who represents Pride and is the same Lucemon deposed by the Ten Warriors.

Each of the Demon Lords is a force unto themselves, but of all of them, Lucemon is considered the most dangerous. In him lies the potential to become the apocalyptic dragon, Lucemon Satan Mode, who brandishes the power of all seven sins.

Also of note is the enigmatic Ogudomon, a powerful Super Demon Lord who seems to be born from a fusion of all seven Demon Lords. Ogudomon is a being that embodies all of the world’s sins, yet supposedly has the power to “atone” for them as well. Supposedly, this makes anyone with malice in their hearts unable to successfully attack it.

There are other Digimon that are classified as Demon Lords, but are not included in their ranks. These Digimon include BelialVamdemon, the true form of the dark aristocrat Vamdemon, Murmukusmon, the ruling “Count” of the “Nightmare Soldiers”, Deathmon, the neutral fallen Angel Digimon , and the aforementioned Bagramon. Save for Bagramon, who commands his own army, and Deathmon, it is unknown if they are servants or allies of the Seven Great Demon Lords.

Other Groups and Figures

There are other groups and individuals of note, but it would seem remiss to consider some of them part of the “Pantheon”. However, they are noteworthy enough to mention.

The Royal Base is an aerial covert fortress that consists of an army of bee-like Digimon, the most powerful of which is TigerVespamon.

The enigmatic Crack Team specializes in augmenting and creating machine or cybernetic digimon as well as weapons. Their first success was Mugendramon, which was created using parts of different cyborg digimon, and from there they developed Chaosdramon. Other Digimon associated with the Crack Team are Megadramon, MetalSeadramon, MetalTyrannomon, and Giga Seadramon.

The Big Death Stars consist of Dorbickmon, NeoVamdemon, Zamielmon, Olegmon, Gravimon, and Splashmon. It is unknown what their goals are, but each one bears their own symbol and commands a themed army of their own. Given they are roughly analogous to the Death Generals of the Xros Wars anime, it's possible they are Bagramon's servants.

Among Digimon, Anubimon apparently stands alone, but he serves an important role. It is Anubimon who decides whether a Digimon may be reborn at the end of its lifespan, and those he judges as evil are consigned to the Dark Area.

In the parallel Digital World of Witchelny, where the inhabitants practice the advanced programming language known as “sorcery”, MedievalDukemon exists as one of the Vortex Knights, a group who uses wind sorcery. MedievalDukemon is their only known member.

Apocalymon is a digimon born from the data of those whose data was lost in the process of evolving. True to its name, it has the power to bring about the end of the Digital World.

Similarly, there is Millenniumon, a digimon born from the fusion of a Kimeramon and a Mugendramon. Boasting destructive power over time and space, it would eventually be reborn as Moon=Millenniumon and ZeedMillenniumon.

The Bancho Digimon are a group of five who have each earned their respective titles and are known for a particularly strong force of will. They all wear garb similar to that worn by archetypal delinquents in Japan. Their number consists of BanchoLeomon, BanchoLilymon, BanchoMamemon, BanchoStingmon, and BanchoGolemon.

There are also the Three Musketeers, but any knowledge of them is vague. All we know is that there are three of them and they are associated with firearms. Their number includes MagnaKidmon (and thus his alter ego AvengeKidmon), BelleStarrmon, a female Demon Man Digimon who resembles Beelzebumon, and Gundramon.

Finally, we come to two beings who represent both regeneration and destruction. The first is Susanoomon, a being foretold in prophecy who would descend upon the network when it reaches a state of chaos, delete the old system, and create a new one. The second is Chaosmon, a code name for a digimon with an impossible existence: two digimon who jogressed and did not fuse fully into one being. A “bug”, Chaosmon is a danger to the stability of the Digital World and is often forcibly deleted. However, it has the potential to manifest as UltimateChaosmon, whose very nature causes lower level digimon to be deleted when close to it.

I hope you found this informative!

Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 14:15 on Dec 28, 2014

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Andrew_1985
Sep 18, 2007
Hay hay hay!

Jesus, that's pretty in depth for Digimon religion. Do you have a flowchart with pictures so we can see what the Digimon all look like?

I really liked some of Xros Wars and wish the Digimon Hunters would've been much better.

As for the revival, are the originals still supposed to be fictional character? Will Kairi still be haunted by darkness? Will Davis, Cody, Joe and that other girl feature? Or is it a soft reboot of the time time?

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



I don't but I could maybe make one? When I'm not just editing something I already wrote and my internet is cooperating I mean

Arsonist Daria
Feb 27, 2011

Requiescat in pace.


Lore about Digimon makes me go cross-eyed.

Unless it's delivered by an evil owl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fDdK1T_oDM

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich



This is AMAZING!! Thank you for the write up!

I say it again, all the lore Digimon has built around the characters is by far the most interesting aspect of the franchise for me. It is a shame that we never got the Digimon X-Evolution movie (not officially at least), is so awesome to see the Royal Knights kicking rear end.

Anyways, the fantastic thing is that the lore keeps getting bigger ( I remember seeing a Buda-like digimon for example) and I can't wait to see what Tri brings to the table.

Speaking of the Demon Lords, I seem to remember they had a pretty interesting story on the Savers game isn't it?

TFRazorsaw posted:

I don't but I could maybe make one? When I'm not just editing something I already wrote and my internet is cooperating I mean

Oh yes, I'd love to see that flowchart.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Lore about Digimon is about as relevant to the franchise as the lte about Pokemon and makes about as much sense

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


The Tamers dub was a big step up from the Adventure dubs.

One big problem with the Adventure dubs is that they seemed to be absolutely terrified of letting a moment be silent, even if it was silent in the JP version. Everyone was constantly chattering, yapping, tossing out jokes - there's no pauses for comedic or dramatic effect, except, like, once.

The music didn't help, it was all loud and poorly used. The Adventure Dubs weren't bad, not at all, but I can at least see why someone would prefer the original VA over that.

Dick Spacious CPA
Oct 10, 2012



Zorak please sticky this thread

----------------
This thread brought to you by a tremendous dickhead!

Iserlohn
Nov 3, 2011

Watch out!

Here comes the third tactic.


Lipstick Apathy

Or at least change the poo poo post tag to computers or something.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Iserlohn posted:

Or at least change the poo poo post tag to computers or something.
if you ever played Digimon World for the PS1, you'd understand the poo poo post tag

K. Flaps
Dec 7, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!


My favorite Digimon is Kabuterimon; combining the power of the strongest animal, the bug, and the strongest force of nature, the lightning bolt.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Endorph posted:

The Tamers dub was a big step up from the Adventure dubs.

One big problem with the Adventure dubs is that they seemed to be absolutely terrified of letting a moment be silent, even if it was silent in the JP version. Everyone was constantly chattering, yapping, tossing out jokes - there's no pauses for comedic or dramatic effect, except, like, once.

The music didn't help, it was all loud and poorly used. The Adventure Dubs weren't bad, not at all, but I can at least see why someone would prefer the original VA over that.

That's just a general problem with American children's media. It's not supposed to be dramatic or serious and any pause is seen as a break in the action or comedy.

MorningMoon
Dec 29, 2013

Goons Steal?
No Dignity!




I'm not usually into the dub, but that delivery was fantastic.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

So out of curiosity, anyone know why the different languages of Digimon are treated on Netflix as separate 'shows'? Its because of actual changes to the content and editing in the dub, rather than just being, well, a dub as you would get today?

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




Xelkelvos posted:

Lore about Digimon is about as relevant to the franchise as the lte about Pokemon and makes about as much sense

Indeed. All the mythology around Digimon implies a centralized setting, which there isn't. Each season just picks and choose what it cares about and invents however it likes. For instance Frontier invented the idea of the 3 great angels and the Warrior 10, but Yggdrasil is nowhere in sight because the X-Evolution period that brought Yggdrasil into the series mythology and said it directed the Royal Knights came after Frontier. The official profiles and lore information are fun to read and speculate on but they're often far removed from any other digimon media. They're generally as relevant as the official Pokedex entries, just more bombastic.

Astro Nut posted:

So out of curiosity, anyone know why the different languages of Digimon are treated on Netflix as separate 'shows'? Its because of actual changes to the content and editing in the dub, rather than just being, well, a dub as you would get today?

I figure it's somewhere between "The dubs are to a greater or lesser extent edited" and stupidity.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



You guys have to realize, the anime isn't the core of the franchise in Japan like it is here. Yeah, it's a big part, but in Japan, at least until tri, this was all in pursuit of selling electronic pets and the card game that carry across iterations of the franchise. Fiction may have deviated, but the basis for the lore was to create a backstory for those things; while the anime had to refresh itself by necessity past Adventure, the profiles for everything stayed consistent because it was supposed to run together.

it's like the Zoids Battle Story stuff; while the universe and setting of the anime changed, the story they were telling with the toys continued on. It's just a different facet of the franchise.

And as for it not mattering to anything, both V-Tamer 01 and Next stayed very close to the background established by Bandai as they existed at the time. Savers stayed mostly in those guidelines too, with some liberties.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

Yeah, Digimon as far as Bandai is concerned is the bit that's Tamagotchi for boys, with the anime and video games extraneous to that - however useful they may be to induce a sales surge or get some outside help in getting new ideas to market. From what I understand, the first series was only meant to be a 13-episode show, which is a standard model Japan has for things, including decent selling but not massively popular manga. Its just that in Digimon's case, the sales surge was so drat good that Bandai ordered new stuff made to keep it going. Then when things died down again, they got iffy about funding for the anime, whilst still putting out a bunch of new digivice models. Same thing happened with Xros Wars on a shorter notice - its ratings tapered off towards the end, but combined with toy sales, were enough to warrant renewal.

And then Hunters happened.

We'll see how things go with Try.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Uhhhh, no. The thing about Adventure only being 13 episodes originally is complete fiction. It was always a year long series.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

TFRazorsaw posted:

Uhhhh, no. The thing about Adventure only being 13 episodes originally is complete fiction. It was always a year long series.

Well, nevermind me then.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



I don't blame you considering fairly prominent people like JesuOtaku still perpetuate that myth.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Oh boy, a Digimon thread. I have dreamed of this.

Astro Nut posted:

And then Hunters happened.

We'll see how things go with Try.

Can we just ignore Hunters ever happened? Please? Hunters makes Frontier look like the crown jewel of the franchise (which it is not, Tamers and V-Tamer have that role)

Really hoping Tri is a great series, as much as I have my serious doubts about it. 02 was already a mess (a very entertaining mess with the best character Digimon has seen, but a mess nonetheless), and this is a sequel made years later with an art style I don't really enjoy...well, I can hope for the best anyways. At the very least, I really hope the Megas that didn't appear in Adventure get to appear now (and in less random ways than the Golden Digimentals movie did...hi, entirely out of nowhere Seraphimon and Holydramon)

Even if it is bad it won't be as bad as Hunters, so it does have that to its favour!

Also, I feel the need to point this out - most people here will know the anime. This is good and all, because the anime is good (except Frontier and Hunters, those are not good), but for anyone who hasn't read any manga, do so. The manga are really, really good. Next is probably the worst of the lot and it is still really good, just...it came out alongside Savers, using some of Savers' own concepts (the Digivice iC and Digisoul, apart from that it sticks far closer to the V-pets) and Savers was just awesome, so it looks worse by comparison. The Xros Wars manga is a step up from the already great anime, even if it suffers from a pace that feels way too fast at times, and the ending screams cancellation due to how abrupt it is (an abrupt ending is still better than Hunters, mind you, but...the manga then confirms Tagiru exists in that verse too, so I even got hopeful we'd get a Hunters manga that fixed that piece of poo poo...never happened, of course).

Beyond these two is V-Tamer, which started before Adventure, ended after Frontier, had crossovers with 02, Frontier and the WonderSwan games (not Tamers, Ryo appears but it's pre-Tamers Ryo), and is...I will have to steal from a previous post, 100% awesome. See how I put V-Tamer on the same level as Tamers above? I fully stand by this. V-Tamer is just amazing. It managed to give character development to Daisuke and Takuya, which their own series failed to! It has a protagonist that is an actual tactician and wins through strategy instead of brute forcing it and the power of feelings! I don't want to spoil anything, just read V-Tamer!

If anyone only watched the Adventure series (as at least one poster has), fix this. Adventure is good (starts really badly, but shows constant improvement, the Dark Masters arc is one of my favourites ever), and 02 is an entertaining mess as I've said before (with the best character, I love Ken), but after that it is Tamers which...I will never really accept as a show for children. Mostly because kid me hated Tamers, not because of nostalgia for Adventure but simply because I couldn't really follow it, I guess. As an adult I rewatched it (and everything, so my balance is based on adult memories) and it became my favourite. Such depth is rarely seen in anime in general, and having a Digimon series that emphatizes the Digi part of the name is something I want dearly to keep happening.

Frontier is poo poo, skip Frontier. Always skip Frontier. Great idea (it's Sentai as gently caress, but hell, I like Sentai), but the execution was awful. You could cut everyone apart from Takuya and Kouji and the series would be the same. Adventure and 02 were better with its non-lead/rival characters, at least there they didn't lose all their powers to make the lead and rival more awesome, nor did they not get to shine in their very own entrance episodes. And the Royal Knights arc, holy poo poo the Royal Knights arc. On my rewatch of every series mentioned above, Frontier was the only one I didn't finish, the moment I got to the Royal Knights arc I had to leave out of sheer boredom. For context, the Royal Knights are by far my favourite group in Digimon, so that the arc they lead is possibly the worst Digimon has ever had hurt that much more.

Good things of Frontier: Koichi, second only to Ken. Also the villains, both the Dark Warriors and LordKnightmon were really good characters, to the point I tended to cheer for the villains.

And then there's Savers. Watch Savers. Teenager (not kid!) decides to punch poo poo and holy poo poo does he punch it. He punches everything. Masaru is the best lead. Savers has its flaws (the beginning is slow, it tends to become The Masaru Show), but overall it is a really good series that I fully recommend to everyone. If only to see Masaru punch. Keep punching, Masaru. Also it had the Royal Knights, but more and their arc was not poo poo (nor the highest point of the series). It also had the most despicable villain Digimon has seen, and man is he enjoyable to watch. And enjoyable to watch getting punched.

Xros Wars is good once you get over how sheerly different it is - replacing evolution for DigiXros (Digimon fuse to become stronger, rather than turning into new forms), having humans without Digivices, having entire armies for the children with Digivices instead of one partner...It is different, and it turned me off pretty badly at first, but once I got accustomed to it I learned to really enjoy it. It has its flaws beyond this - wild tonal shifts, somewhat forced comedy (Riku Sanjo staple, here), not taking full advantage of the cast, the girl of the team becomes progressively more useless as the series goes on (Digimon staple, here, for anyone not named Ruki, who is the best), and it apparently had a third arc. Apparently. We do not talk about it, ever. It did not happen.

And then there's the X-Evolution movie, that focuses entirely on Digimon, including the Royal Knights (sorta...could've done more with that...). It's probably the most depressing work in the franchise (in a good way, not in a low quality way), and I fully recommend it. Just...be ready for some tears.

I don't know what more to say. I consider myself a bit of a Digimon savant (much as I've learned more today thanks to TFRazorsaw's posts, thank you!), and I truly love the franchise. If I keep talking I will probably look like even more of a fool, so I'll just shut up.

Digimon is really enjoyable, you guys.

EDIT: Oh, I know what I should say! Here's a flowchart that depicts every group, connection and the like (or as close as you can get) in the core verse. Not made by me, but by the admins at Digisoul.net, and it is in Spanish. If people want I can translate it, it's big as gently caress but I have a lot of free time.

Blaze Dragon fucked around with this message at 03:11 on Jan 2, 2015

Omnicrom
Aug 3, 2007
Snorlax Afficionado




TFRazorsaw posted:

I don't blame you considering fairly prominent people like JesuOtaku still perpetuate that myth.

And to be fair Digimon Adventure almost feels like a 13 episode series that got extended early in production, to the point I had actually speculated that it was originally supposed to be 13 episodes entirely on my own initiative. The pacing is such that with some editing and an altered ending you'd never know it was only the first arc of a longer show.

As for the thorny subject of Xros Wars and Young Hunters I have the extremely wrong opinion that both were bad shows but I enjoyed Young Hunters more. The stars aligned over Xros Wars, its setting, story, cast, and writing in such a way that I can't even rationally explain why it leaves me so completely cold (before you ask no, it wasn't DigiXrossing. I thought Xrossing was a pretty cool idea that needed more fleshing out). Meanwhile Young Hunters was a bad, unnecessary show apparently written by people who had never seen another season of Digimon but I still moderately enjoyed watching it. Of course I'm not alien to having bad opinions on Digimon, I mean I liked Frontier and 02 despite their badness. I really liked the Xros Wars manga though.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Xros Wars and Young Hunters definitely aren't the in the running for the best Digimon series, but they're not really at the bottom either. There is some cast focus problems but that's not really anything new, particularly when the Digimon on the team are given as much spotlight as they were in Tamers. If the protagonists in Young Hunters were a little less insufferable, it'd probably go a long way to improving it.

Seraphic Neoman
Jul 19, 2011




How the gently caress do you pronounce Xross? Eckscross? Ecksross? Crossross?

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


SSNeoman posted:

How the gently caress do you pronounce Xross? Eckscross? Ecksross? Crossross?
Cross.

Kurui Reiten
Apr 24, 2010


Can someone explain the hate for Young Hunters? I think I've only seen one half of an episode of Xros Wars in general, much less Young Hunters, and I don't really know where the hate comes from.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



It's just kind of dull. It's monster of the week stuff till almost the very end and doesn't have much of an overarching plot.

But considering they literally made it solely to fill the time between the end of XW proper and the premiere of Saint Seiya Omega, I cut it a little slack. Yes, it's very run of the mill, thoroughly unambitious, and largely goes nowhere, but it was never supposed to.

That doesn't mean I hold it in very high esteem or like it that much. I just have no anger towards it.

Dark_Tzitzimine
Oct 9, 2012

by R. Guyovich


Kurui Reiten posted:

Can someone explain the hate for Young Hunters? I think I've only seen one half of an episode of Xros Wars in general, much less Young Hunters, and I don't really know where the hate comes from.

In my case is more because it teased an AWESOME team up between all the past leaders around episode 13 that it was forgotten by nearly all the series just to pop up on the last two chapters as glorified fanservice (no interaction between the leads and just show to do something cool and vanish into the background again)

Having most of the episodes feel like filler and the worst lead on the whole franchise didn't help either.

EDIT: Holy poo poo, I just read that flowchart and it leave me cross-eyed. I was familiar with most of the concepts but seeing how they actually work together is kind of overwhelming. Enough material in there to do like ten series focused only on the Digimon.

Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 2, 2015

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



The series shows no plot until the very end, being mostly a monster of the week series, with said monster of the week episodes not even being particularly interesting or unique. It ignores every character it introduces apart from the main, who is thoroughly unlikable and yet gets all the spotlight. It has constant animation mistakes and overall the entire series looks pretty bad (though the stock footage evolution scenes might be the best in the franchise), showing that they didn't even have a budget. It has no character development whatsoever (apart from Yuu in what little time he gets), the big bad comes entirely out of nowhere with no foreshadowing whatsoever even when they had great chances to do so, the main character gets a power up that is never explained (what the hell was Superior Mode?), and the one thing that could've made the series worth remembering, the crossover with previous series, is badly used, lasts not even a full episode, shows how little Toei cared (sure, don't bring back the Digimon VAs, it's not like this is a series known for calling attacks or anything!), and ends up in all of the previous leads becoming power ups for our newest greatest main character.

tl;dr gently caress Tagiru, and gently caress everyone who made this series possible. Even Riku Sanjo, as much as I usually love his writing.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Uh, several digimon VAs came back for the crossover. They just couldn't get too many of them.

again, this series was literally made to fill a couple of months between different shows.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



TFRazorsaw posted:

Uh, several digimon VAs came back for the crossover. They just couldn't get too many of them.

again, this series was literally made to fill a couple of months between different shows.

None of the Digimon VAs came back for the crossover proper. Masaru's Agumon was not voiced during the crossover episode, only during its previous appearance. Taichi's Agumon, as well as Gomamon and Tentomon only got their voices because their VAs were already working in Hunters (Shoutmon, Takuya, Psychemon/Dorulumon, respectively), and in fact this is likely the only reason why the last two got to appear at all, alongside Joe (whose VA might be the most important Digimon has ever had, considering how he appeared in every single series, being Damemon in Hunters, as well as both Joe and Grani (who got more lines than Damemon in the entire series) in the crossover) and Chakmon (whose VA is the same as Gumdramon's). V-mon's VA was also back...in a previous episode, as a different character.

It made the episode very weird to watch, because none of the calls you'd expect to be there were. The only attack calls we got were WarGreymon's Gaia Force and Aldamon's Brahma Shil, the former because his VA was already in the series as said, and the latter because it would've been overboard to not even get the human VAs (which they did with Yamato and Mimi anyways...the latter even weirder since AiM said she was going to appear, then...didn't...). As a matter of fact, Omegamon and Susanoomon don't get any attack calls at all, making the whole thing even weirder.

Astro Nut
Feb 22, 2013

Nonsensical Space Powers, Activate! Form of Friendship!

I'll admit, much of my dislike for Young Hunters probably wouldn't be as strong as its own thing, and I do half wonder if there was some greater idea that they were hoping to build up to that then had to be cut short when neither ratings or merchandise sales were good enough to keep the show going (Edit: Plus, I did briefly forget, just being a stop gap for another show). But given how it ends, I can't help but intrinsically feel for what could have been, and thus as a result, it ends up really disappointing. Like, I get, need to establish Tagiru and co as their own dynamic first, but having no real appearances by the returning casts (that mid-series teaser does not freaking count, and reeks of a half assed apology, from what I remember) until the very end, and to a minimal degree at that, was a major misstep on both the promises made external of the show, but just in general for any character interaction and development - particularly Tagiru's. The show needed something that could really say 'Yes, this kid deserves to stand as a top peer among heroes who've already saved the world', and... I never really got, that from him. Then again, given the series that followed, and other products from the company, Toei having issues with meeting its own hype isn't without precedent.

Nodosaur
Dec 23, 2014



Blaze Dragon posted:

None of the Digimon VAs came back for the crossover proper. Masaru's Agumon was not voiced during the crossover episode, only during its previous appearance. Taichi's Agumon, as well as Gomamon and Tentomon only got their voices because their VAs were already working in Hunters (Shoutmon, Takuya, Psychemon/Dorulumon, respectively), and in fact this is likely the only reason why the last two got to appear at all, alongside Joe (whose VA might be the most important Digimon has ever had, considering how he appeared in every single series, being Damemon in Hunters, as well as both Joe and Grani (who got more lines than Damemon in the entire series) in the crossover) and Chakmon (whose VA is the same as Gumdramon's). V-mon's VA was also back...in a previous episode, as a different character.

It made the episode very weird to watch, because none of the calls you'd expect to be there were. The only attack calls we got were WarGreymon's Gaia Force and Aldamon's Brahma Shil, the former because his VA was already in the series as said, and the latter because it would've been overboard to not even get the human VAs (which they did with Yamato and Mimi anyways...the latter even weirder since AiM said she was going to appear, then...didn't...). As a matter of fact, Omegamon and Susanoomon don't get any attack calls at all, making the whole thing even weirder.

so... "aside from these guys that came back", they didn't get anyone back.

There have been lots of cases where certain attacks didn't get called out in the shows these characters came from.

planetarial
Oct 19, 2012


Huh, reading all this makes me glad I skipped Hunters (I enjoyed Xros Wars for what it was). I still need to go back and finish Savers, it's the only series besides Hunters that I never finished.

I don't have high hopes for Tri after what Toei did with Sailor Moon Crystal but I like the redesigns since they're similar to the designers previous work, Tsuritama. I'll still watch it anyway. Let's hope the animation isn't complete rear end.

Quincytbb
Oct 8, 2014



Is there any way to watch Digimon Savers online without having to resort to files? I have spent a while looking for it but netflix dosnt have it and neither does hulu, and the only thing I have found is low quality youtube videos.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Quincytbb posted:

Is there any way to watch Digimon Savers online without having to resort to files? I have spent a while looking for it but netflix dosnt have it and neither does hulu, and the only thing I have found is low quality youtube videos.
The dub changed the name to Digimon Data Squad, try looking for that?

Though you might wind up with, you know, the dub.

Genocyber
Jun 4, 2012



Endorph posted:

The dub changed the name to Digimon Data Squad, try looking for that?

Though you might wind up with, you know, the dub.

I don't understand how someone can watch digimon without the dub. The dub is what makes it Digimon.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009


Genocyber posted:

I don't understand how someone can watch digimon without the dub. The dub is what makes it Digimon.
The first few seasons, definitely, but Savers has the protagonist and his agumon calling each other ANIKI like they're no good delinquents and that alone is worth watching the original for

dragon_pamcake
Jan 1, 2012


Endorph posted:

on the other hand 02 had an episode in which davis was terrified of friendship for some reason

and an episode where kairi nearly got made cthulhu's bride and this was never referenced again

02 is my favorite season because it's when I started watching.

Davis is cool because his simple brain can't comprehend sometimes you have to hurt a friend to help them. Also he's from a mixed family which I thought was pretty cool.

The second half of 02 sucks because they set up the Dark Ocean to be this big, terrible blight threatening the digital world, and then did nothing with it. For awhile there were no villains able to threaten the kids after Paildramon kicked Arukenimon's rear end. The new kids were total pussies about killing evil digimon that were threatening to slaughter humans and all world tour was the worst kind of filler. Then in a badly written plot twist, Myotismon infected the creepiest dude ever and he's the final boss.

tl;dr version: There was no clear threat in the second half of 02.

It also didn't help the original kids were hovering around guiding them. Yolei especially got shafted because Izzy handled all the computer stuff.

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Pastrymancy
Feb 20, 2011

11:13: Despite Gio Gonzalez warning, "Never mix your sparkling juices," Bryce Harper opens another bottle of sparkling grape and mixes it with sparkling cider.

1:07: Harper walks to the 7-11 and orders an all-syrup Slurpee.

1:10-3:05: Harper has no recollection of this time. Aliens?


Yolei was supposed to be the computer kid?

It didn't help the 3 new kids initially because they were half the size of the original cast TK and Kari already knew how everything worked. The fact that them going to Digimon Land was like an after school activity made everything potentially dangerous have less consequence if the characters made a mistake.

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