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The thing I always liked as a kid about 2 is that Ken was my favorite villain because he wasn't just some monster, he was a human. The concept of a Digidestined who decided who, being a super intelligent member of the Chosen Ones decides, as a kid like that very well might, to become king of the loving monsters, was a lot better to me than "well he's a weird space monster who made everyone else you fought." Of course the 2nd half hosed all that up by making it about all that bananas spore poo poo which also undermines any notion of a redemption arc since his mind was being hosed with.
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Feb 23, 2015 03:25
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Rodyle posted:The thing I always liked as a kid about 2 is that Ken was my favorite villain because he wasn't just some monster, he was a human. The concept of a Digidestined who decided who, being a super intelligent member of the Chosen Ones decides, as a kid like that very well might, to become king of the loving monsters, was a lot better to me than "well he's a weird space monster who made everyone else you fought." The redemption arc still works because, Dark Spores fuckery or not, Ken still feels fully guilty of what he did. And god knows that if there's one plot that 02 did well it's Ken in his entirety. His BelialVamdemon-induced dream shows exactly just how much he hates himself (spoilering because this is a truly great part of a horrible fight otherwise): while everyone else has nice dreams, Ken's wish is to get tortured to death. This is an 11-year old whose greatest wish is to get hurt and killed, entirely out of guilt. It should be noted that Ken wasn't the first human villain, C'mon and V-Tamer both did it first. The thing is that C'mon just has a bully, and V-Tamer has a guy who is absolutely evil 99% of the way and then suddenly we're meant to forgive him despite being an absolute poo poo because he was doing it all for his sister. I love V-Tamer but Neo should've just stayed a villain, his attempt at redemption came way too late and didn't work at all. Yuu in Xros Wars follows more or less the same steps as Ken and is similarly likable. Hunters should've centered on him instead of demoting him to minor character despite telling us otherwise, because he still had a really good story to tell that he just never got to.
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Feb 23, 2015 04:23
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Blaze Dragon posted:The redemption arc still works because, Dark Spores fuckery or not, Ken still feels fully guilty of what he did. And god knows that if there's one plot that 02 did well it's Ken in his entirety. His BelialVamdemon-induced dream shows exactly just how much he hates himself (spoilering because this is a truly great part of a horrible fight otherwise): while everyone else has nice dreams, Ken's wish is to get tortured to death. This is an 11-year old whose greatest wish is to get hurt and killed, entirely out of guilt. Yuu was Ken done right. Ken has no excuse for "These creatures are REAL?!" when you consider that he's known that for ages, as much as the dark spore made him 'Evil' I don't buy it distorting his world view to interrupt something he clearly knew beforehand. Yuu, conversely, didn't know that Digimon were real, and didn't have any Spore influence. Yuu had just always been a person of amazing talent who constantly felt he had to hold back because people would cry or be upset if he went all out. He thinks he's been brought to something that isn't real 100% which is why he can so easily attempt to kill Nene, because he thinks it's just a game. When Yuu finally realizes that, "Oh poo poo, this is all real, I've killed thousands, I nearly killed my sister, Oh God I Killed Taiki*" he just completely breaks down. And it's much more believable because Yuu acted in honest ignorance. And the thing is in the end he shows to be a much better general than Taiki, able to use Digi-Xros much more effectively when presented with limited resources. all the hype behind Yuu was real, so he comes across as a much better character. I'm not saying Ken wasn't the best part of 02. Because he was, but that best part still wasn't that well done.
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Feb 23, 2015 05:30
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I've been rewatching Adventure on Netflix and I am convinced being a Digimon makes you dumb by default. Like, even Myotismon seems to operate at roughly Cobra Commander tier competence. Oh well, children's cartoon
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Feb 23, 2015 07:03
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Rodyle posted:I've been rewatching Adventure on Netflix and I am convinced being a Digimon makes you dumb by default. Like, even Myotismon seems to operate at roughly Cobra Commander tier competence. As a kid I always wondered why the evil Digimon didn't just target the Digidestined instead of their partners or at least try and smash their Digivices.
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Feb 23, 2015 15:48
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Brony Hunter posted:As a kid I always wondered why the evil Digimon didn't just target the Digidestined instead of their partners or at least try and smash their Digivices. Since digimon are more or less immortal, it wouldn't occur to them that killing the kids would be a workable solution (is the explanation I just made up).
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Feb 23, 2015 16:04
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I mean like, Myotismon descends down on TK, Matt, Gabu, and the two stooges and instead of just vaporizing the former he yells at the latter for eating ice cream and tells them to steal the tags and crests. Come on man, I know you're really dedicated to the whole "uhuhu I'm an evil vampire overlord why I should I get my hands dirty" thing but the solution is obvious.
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Feb 23, 2015 16:25
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Well to be fair when he did get up close, he got a werewolf in his face. Who he then kicked the rear end of. But then an Angel showed up and was a bit more trouble. Myotismon is basically a dude who is too good to do the dirty work and mostly just wants to dick around with people. Apocalymon though, he was smart. Wipe out the crests, murder the kids. Shame the power wasn't in some stupid trinket and was just their own inner strength
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Feb 23, 2015 16:38
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Burkion posted:Well to be fair when he did get up close, he got a werewolf in his face. Apocalymon was great in the dub. "I am the ultimate evil...complete with hot and cold running water!" 
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Feb 23, 2015 19:47
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Yeah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKoh5nBxfGw "Why do you all get the pizza, while I get the crust!?" We need a thread of the best 'this dub sure has taken liberties'. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 20:32
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"Mwahahahahahaha! Wait, why am I laughing? I'm supposed to be depressed!"
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Feb 23, 2015 20:34
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Yeah I think that's just the General Dub Thread
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Feb 23, 2015 20:46
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Adventure's problem (Besides being a 13 episode anime turned into a 26 episode anime turned into a full length series) is that Apocalymon is never foreshadowed enough, one of the changes the novels (Written by either the director or the script writer I forget) makes that is really good is Nanomon breaching the firewall for a split second in Etemon's pyramid, which causes everything to go straight to hell. Another good thing those novels do is have Taichi get depressed from the Skull Greymon incident and he STAYS depressed until finally achieving Metal Greymon. Rather than getting depressed, clearing it up in an episode, and then needing to be scared of Dying for realz. Also it shows just how leaderless the group is with Taichi completely useless. The fact that Sora goes behind everyones back to contact Nanomon because that might help, which eventually leads to her getting captured, Taichi being taken by Pixiemon, and Metal Greymon emerging. You should give them a read http://digitalscratch.pmsinfirm.org/?p=4125 They suffer from the usual "Fan Translation" issue. But the author is trying hard to tell the story while clearing up a lot of the filler/hint at the plot. Like PicoDevimon stealing all the crests and Sora beating the poo poo out of him alone to take most of them back...
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Feb 23, 2015 21:24
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Onmi posted:Adventure's problem (Besides being a 13 episode anime turned into a 26 episode anime turned into a full length series) Was this ever confirmed as anything more than a rumor?
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Feb 23, 2015 22:45
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Omnicrom posted:Was this ever confirmed as anything more than a rumor? I got no idea, I think i popped up somewhere as confirmed, but like all things lost to the internets streams of time, no one can seem to find it. Just like there are supposed interviews out there with the Director etc. of 02 going over how much a nightmare it was to make. It's still funny that the 10th anniversery DVDs had the constant repeated question (for the VAs involved) "so what was Sora and Taichi" with most of them going "Yeah dunno what the gently caress was up with that." Or, and this was my favorite response. Question: There were a lot of fans who were surprised by the development between Yamato and Sora in 02. Mayumi Yamaguchi (Gabumon): Honestly, Sora! If you’d spent just a few minutes to ask [Gabumon] for advice, I would have said, “Sora, don’t do this to yourself. It’s Taichi you should go for.” (laughs) Yuuto Kazama (Yamato): It’s tough work taking care of Yamato, you’re saying? (laughs) http://digitalscratch.pmsinfirm.org/?p=781 Honestly I'm just shocked it made it onto the anniversary DVDs... also that this was apparently a thing in Japan as well.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:33
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Onmi posted:You should give them a read http://digitalscratch.pmsinfirm.org/?p=4125 They suffer from the usual "Fan Translation" issue. But the author is trying hard to tell the story while clearing up a lot of the filler/hint at the plot. I'm only a little way through it, but it really is interesting (and nostalgic). We always knew that the partner digimon had been alive for a long time, but this says that they were conscious and aware, and not only that, it was a lot longer than I thought. We're talking ancient here, like on the geological time scale.
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Feb 23, 2015 23:50
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Montegoraon posted:I'm only a little way through it, but it really is interesting (and nostalgic). We always knew that the partner digimon had been alive for a long time, but this says that they were conscious and aware, and not only that, it was a lot longer than I thought. We're talking ancient here, like on the geological time scale. It really is interesting, because it gives a lot of back story on the children as well. Like Koushiro and how he knows Taichi or why he was even at Camp, in short, he was required to join an outdoors club so he joined the soccer one, where he met Taichi and Sora. Taichi, again showing just what kind of person he was, opened up, never judged him, treated him will, and asked him to come to Camp. It's really clear that Koushiro wasn't there for any other reason besides Taichi asking him. And if he hadn't then, like Hikari, he might have never made it to the digital world.
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Feb 24, 2015 00:17
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They were always an odd pair- they didn't get thrown together TOO often, but when they did they formed a pretty great double act and seemed a lot like best friends, to me at least. That's one fantastic thing they took advantage of in season 1- the huge cast meant they could switch and swap people and keep dynamics pretty fresh through out. Joe in particular got a lot of good work as a straight man to Matt, Mimi, TK, and Sora. He didn't interact as much with Tai beyond the usual group stuff, and he and Izzy never hung out together much. And of course for the elephant in the room, Matt and Sora almost never, ever talked or really interacted on their own in season 1.
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Feb 24, 2015 00:42
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Burkion posted:They were always an odd pair- they didn't get thrown together TOO often, but when they did they formed a pretty great double act and seemed a lot like best friends, to me at least. Like when Machinedramon had them tracked, Taichi made a mock attempt of fighting Koushiro, but only because he could tell someone was sneaking up on him and Koushiro pretty much got it immediately. I always found it weird they called Yamato his best friend because really it's Koushiro. Yamato's probably the guy he's fought the most with and can relate to as an older brother, but Koushiro is the person who he genuinely enjoys being around and trusts explicitly. It's also why Koushiro can, hilariously, sprint from his own apartment building to Taichi's in Children's War Game, and Taichi's reaction is just "Yo Koushiro" but that movie was the best...
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Feb 24, 2015 01:00
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Onmi posted:Like when Machinedramon had them tracked, Taichi made a mock attempt of fighting Koushiro, but only because he could tell someone was sneaking up on him and Koushiro pretty much got it immediately. Our War Game is actually a really good thing to point out in this specific argument. I was talking to a friend a few days ago and he pointed it out, Yamato (and Takeru even more) feels like an afterthought in that movie. He's there because Omegamon had to appear, but apart from that he has very little relevance to the movie. Instead, it's Koushiro who serves as Taichi's second during the entire film, hell, to a point he's even more important considering he's the one that realizes that poo poo's hit the fan and prepares everything to allow the Children (well, half of them) to fight Diablomon. Koushiro gets a lot of relevance in Adventure as a whole, undoubtely because his computer knowledge comes in handy in a digital world (something I would've liked to see in more series, but only Adventure and Tamers show). It ends up making him memorable, and, at least between my friends, he's definitely a fan-favourite. His character depth is undeniable too, which only helps making him even more likable. He's also super important in the Mugendramon arc and that's my favourite part of Adventure so that only made me like him even more. God that arc rocked. I want more of that.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:06
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The third series owned, well bye.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:08
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Its mostly because, I'd say, their particular personality traits compliment each other more than they conflict. Tai and Matt are both head strong and stubborn, the main difference is that Tai is quite vocal with his views whilst Matt typically only responds to provocation (such as Tai being an idiot). Izzy lacks the kind of charisma Tai just naturally has, but he's a strong intellectual base for Tai to lean on when he needs support and information when making a plan. When you wanted to figure out how to get something honestly done on the show, then those two were your best bet for it. Edit: Heck to give a similar comparison from the same company (albeit muuuuuch later), look at Kamen Rider W. Same kinda smart guy/proactive guy dynamic. Astro Nut fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Feb 24, 2015 |
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Feb 24, 2015 02:08
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It's also visual when the chosen children divide after Yamato vs Taichi.Astro Nut posted:Its mostly because, I'd say, their particular personality traits compliment each other more than they conflict. Tai and Matt are both head strong and stubborn, the main difference is that Tai is quite vocal with his views whilst Matt typically only responds to provocation (such as Tai being an idiot). Izzy lacks the kind of charisma Tai just naturally has, but he's a strong intellectual base for Tai to lean on when he needs support and information when making a plan. When you wanted to figure out how to get something honestly done on the show, then those two were your best bet for it. I now Double like Double.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:18
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Astro Nut posted:Its mostly because, I'd say, their particular personality traits compliment each other more than they conflict. Tai and Matt are both head strong and stubborn, the main difference is that Tai is quite vocal with his views whilst Matt typically only responds to provocation (such as Tai being an idiot). Izzy lacks the kind of charisma Tai just naturally has, but he's a strong intellectual base for Tai to lean on when he needs support and information when making a plan. When you wanted to figure out how to get something honestly done on the show, then those two were your best bet for it. quote:Edit: Heck to give a similar comparison from the same company (albeit muuuuuch later), look at Kamen Rider W. Same kinda smart guy/proactive guy dynamic. Oh poo poo, and Akiko is Sora! Sort of.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:23
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So, can I ask why, in the dumb as hell epilogue, they didn't at least have TK and Kari get together? Unless that was subtly implied/stated else where, they were the other natural couple and God knows they had more grounding than Ken and Yolie ever did, yet unlike that one nothing came of it?
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Feb 24, 2015 02:39
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Burkion posted:So, can I ask why, in the dumb as hell epilogue, they didn't at least have TK and Kari get together? Unless that was subtly implied/stated else where, they were the other natural couple and God knows they had more grounding than Ken and Yolie ever did, yet unlike that one nothing came of it? Just didn't. 02 is a mess on the creative side. I know the explanation for Yamato/Sora was "Well we didn't want to do the traditional main guy and main gal getting together." Which, you know, fairs fair, maybe actually show some development for it though and not have your fanbase world wide going "what the gently caress was that?" Also Daisuke just gives up his crush with no actual in-show development or anything, just does. Because concluding subplots is for bitches.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:48
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Burkion posted:So, can I ask why, in the dumb as hell epilogue, they didn't at least have TK and Kari get together? Unless that was subtly implied/stated else where, they were the other natural couple and God knows they had more grounding than Ken and Yolie ever did, yet unlike that one nothing came of it? The 02 epilogue is dumb, that's literally the entire reason why anything happened in it. Ken/Miyako apparently only happened because their VAs were close friends, for hell's sake. That said, the only episode that I remember was heavily Takeru/Hikari is the Cthulu...err, Dagomon episode, and the series tries really hard to ignore it ever happened after it happened, because 02 is a mess of plots that go nowhere and it wasted the best writer they had. Thankfully, Bandai did not, and so the beautiful, beautiful thing known as Digimon Tamers was born. God bless Chiaki Konaka.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:48
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Eh that was the only episode devoted to them, but they had a ton of tiny moments, including their Digimon just always hanging out and dancing and poo poo. Still. If there was one problem I have with Season 3, compared to season 1- the villains were no where near as cool. Mind that's pretty much unavoidable given the type of foe D-Reaper was and how it didn't start getting intelligent, unique agents until near the very end, but a lack of villains kind of hurt the show a small bit. It was still fantastic though.
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Feb 24, 2015 02:51
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Blaze Dragon posted:God bless Chiaki Konaka. ----------------
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Feb 24, 2015 02:53
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Burkion posted:Eh that was the only episode devoted to them, but they had a ton of tiny moments, including their Digimon just always hanging out and dancing and poo poo. the villains were less personalities, more forces of nature, which was a good example of Season 3 as a whole, it was much more wild, much more savage. Also going back to "loving 02 seriously?" something else that bugs me with the Digimentals, those are 'Elementals' as the name, but rather than give a reasonable explanation like "Hey you were responsible for saving and recreating the world so it formed elements based on your greatests traits that became the digimentals" They instead went with "This is an ancient form of evolution" to which I respond "That makes no loving sense, given what we know about the Crests and everything else. If the Digitmentals were a direct response to the Chosen Childrens actions-" OR loving HELL THE REASON THEY CAN'T EVOLVE THEIR DIGIMON BECAUSE THEY GAVE UP THEIR 'POWER' which still makes no sense, "-then it would be a neat lore building thing, instead it's just an excuse."
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Feb 24, 2015 03:01
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Yeah VA fits perfectly for the time. Paul St. Peter so he did his macho meathead joking poo poo with Duke Nukem and then this.
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Feb 24, 2015 03:37
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Onmi posted:the villains were less personalities, more forces of nature, which was a good example of Season 3 as a whole, it was much more wild, much more savage. Ryo's games might have the answer to that. In Tag Tamers, Ryo and Ken have to find the Digimentals, which were destroyed by time, and apparently Gennai repairs them during the final battle by using the power of the Crests after they were released by the original eight. At the end of D1 Tamers, Ryo is sent to the past with the Digimentals in hand, which creates an obvious plothole (they would be destroyed again in the present), but we can attribute that to gameplay and ignore it for story purpouses. Anyways, the current Digimentals have the Crests in them because of that, they aren't the original forms they had in the past. V-Tamer (which is not canon to the anime) points out that the Digimentals originally have the forms of crystals, and indeed, the Digimental of Darkness (that only exists in Ryo's games, alongside the Digimentals of Pride, Desire and Tenacity), which was not repaired using the Crests, has the form of a crystal, as seen in its card. This, however, still gives no explanation as of how the Digimental of Kindness exists. Or the Crest of Kindness. In fact, Kindness in general just makes no loving sense in the story.
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Feb 24, 2015 04:16
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Blaze Dragon posted:Ryo's games might have the answer to that. In Tag Tamers, Ryo and Ken have to find the Digimentals, which were destroyed by time, and apparently Gennai repairs them during the final battle by using the power of the Crests after they were released by the original eight. YEP OF COURSE, MORE BULLSHIT TIE INS TO THE GAME TO EXPLAIN THE MAIN STORY gently caress season 2
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Feb 24, 2015 04:22
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Our War Game gave us YOU GOOOOT MAIIIIIIIIL. It redeemed early anime dubs as a whole.
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Feb 24, 2015 04:26
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Burkion posted:YEP OF COURSE, MORE BULLSHIT TIE INS TO THE GAME TO EXPLAIN THE MAIN STORY Well, it's not really explaining the main story. You can ignore it entirely if you want, just accept the Digimentals existed and had Digimon sealed in them because reasons. I don't think even Ryo's games explain why Armadimon and Hawkmon were there anyways (V-mon has an important role, which is thankfully never referenced so you can ignore it entirely). It's only when you really start thinking about 02 that Ryo's games take some importance. You can easily watch it and never care. At best you'll be confused over who was that kid with Ken in the flashbacks and can just rationalize him as a Chosen Child we never see again, after all, there's a lot of them in the world now. Hell, you might recognise Ryo from Our War Game (he gets a cameo there!) and think it's just a cool continuity nod.
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Feb 24, 2015 04:31
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I really wish Our War Game was dubbed in isolation.
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Feb 24, 2015 04:56
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Blaze Dragon posted:Well, it's not really explaining the main story. You can ignore it entirely if you want, just accept the Digimentals existed and had Digimon sealed in them because reasons. I don't think even Ryo's games explain why Armadimon and Hawkmon were there anyways (V-mon has an important role, which is thankfully never referenced so you can ignore it entirely). Miyako is also in Childrens War Game, so I have to wonder if she was just a random design they turned into a PC or if they planned it. Because I think CWG came out before 02. Also by Mamoru Hosada, AKA the dude who directed the best episode of Adventure (21) and supposedly was supposed to direct more, but was removed because he did something that Bandai didn't account for. He spent money to make the animation look good, used songs like Bolero to set the mood and in general, presented a very different style of episode. And their response was "NOPE! CAN'T HAVE THIS"
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Feb 24, 2015 04:58
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Episode 21 was loving amazing. The colors are muted, the camera angles are weird, Hikari is creepy and the whole thing feels like a completely different show than the previous 20 episodes. The stark contrast really sells that the real world and the Digital World are different and maybe everything was a dream or something.
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Feb 24, 2015 05:01
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I've ALWAYS wondered what the gently caress was up with that episode- it was like the only episode that got a budget in the entire series. I've also always wanted to see an entire series done in its style. I just assumed it was made at the same time as that first 'movie', where we see the origins of the kids because it's art style reminded me a lot of it.
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Feb 24, 2015 05:12
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Burkion posted:I've ALWAYS wondered what the gently caress was up with that episode- it was like the only episode that got a budget in the entire series. Same director http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamoru_Hosoda#As_Director He also did Movie 6 of One Piece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6BuuEeWYa0&t=4717s The dude is REALLY GOOD
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Feb 24, 2015 05:23
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