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There is next to nothing morally objectionable or approaching what you said in Xros Wars/Fusion (besides the writing, eyyy) beyond fanservicey stuff, but they still cut that show to ribbons with nonsensical edits, character warping humor, screwing with the plot, and painting a Digimon who was perfectly fine to air on Fox Kids in the year 2000 day glo green. And that's not even getting getting into the inconsistencies involving Digimon who had been localized for years and would have been simple enough to check, but that's comparatively more minor. And then you had Lilithmon being changed to "Laylamon" while poo poo like Beelzemon keeping his name is apparently perfectly fine. More inconsistent standards about what is and isn't acceptable. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 22:27 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 22:25
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TFRazorsaw posted:There is next to nothing morally objectionable or approaching what you said in Xros Wars/Fusion (besides the writing, eyyy) beyond fanservicey stuff, but they still cut that show to ribbons with nonsensical edits, character warping humor, screwing with the plot, and painting a Digimon who was perfectly fine to air on Fox Kids in the year 2000 day glo green. And that's not even getting getting into the inconsistencies involving Digimon who had been localized for years and would have been simple enough to check, but that's comparatively more minor. A lot of this has to do with network demands, also. The idea is that you need to be able to get through a ton of levels of red tape to get these things on the air. Sometimes the network they've got the show slotted for will make demands, and request changes. There is no single set of standards and practices that everything can be forced into, and decisions are made by people, not computers. Whomever was going over names for the localization of Lilithmon apparently felt it was not usable, and asked for it to be changed. Meanwhile, Beelzemon looked like nonsense to them, and they were like "well ok". Every name does not come to the censors with a carefully designed entomology note to explain it. Why did Daemon get through? Someone didn't realize the implications of the changed name, and didn't actually know what it was linked to. Remember, you are assuming these people have full knowledge of what they're looking at. That's not generally how these things work; they'll get a script to look at, and they'll make red marks and be like "change this, change this". If they see someone has written a name as "Demon", they might change it because duh. However, if the script writer anticipated that, and initially wrote "Daemon", and the person doing the checking doesn't realize the implication of the name, they'll just let it through because it looks like a nonsense word to them. Basically, you're assuming that because Bandai or Toei decided on a name in America, it should be able to pass censorship and legal for cartoons and the like. That's not how it works, though; marketing departments are different for shows and TV, safety and decency standards change over the years. Remember how years ago in America a realistic Megatron toy could be sold, and then later you needed an orange barrel, and then Hasbro said that the entire toy would need to be orange, and then later they said standards had changed to the point that it wasn't even possible to rerelease it in America no matter the colors? That happens with TV shows and networks and everything else, too. Things change, and things that were considered alright in the past aren't always approved in the future. Or someone managed to get something through the censors in the past, but they caught on this time. Or there's a legal hang up with a name, and ownership rights, and it's easier to just change it than it is to get all the red tape cleared in time to air. There are a million reasons inconsistent terminology and localization happens, and they change all the time. Japanese Digimon has been more or less handled by the same companies in Japan, where no translation is needed, but here in America it has to go through constantly changing red tape, and it doesn't have Nintendo's clout, power, and money behind it to push through consistency like Pokemon does. The companies change, the ownership changes, the workers and directors and censors change, the cast and crew change and have other commitments, the networks change, and everything is done more or less on a bare minimum budget because it is a kids show dub done at kids show dub prices and kids show dub practices. This isn't One Piece, or Naruto, or Yu-Gi-Oh where those shows were basically juggernauts for a while, and remember, not even those shows got through nearly unscathed. Digimon is a niche among a niche, and is funded as such. Frankly, the fact that the first season was able to be set in Japan, and had as many religious references as it did, was amazing. Things, however, have changed, and will keep changing, and you have to accept that instead of saying "No, it's perfectly valid if I keep complaining about it, because they're just not trying hard enough". Chances are, everyone is trying as hard as they are able, and no one wants to write tripe. Sometimes, though, that's just the way it falls, and there's no time or money or anyone in a position to fix it.
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May 27, 2017 23:18
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I don't think Saban Entertainment ever found a Japanese property where they felt screwing with the plot wasn't appropriate. There's a reason otakus of 2000-2005 used to poo poo on this stuff endlessly, it was never bought with the intention of presenting the original script without distortions. The problem is, those otakus were also insufferable people who wouldn't allow anyone to enjoy it because IT'S NOT RIGHT and now we make fun of them. I hope? edit: Like, the reason I brought up Burkion and I being tokuposters, is because we're accustomed to fandom accepting both the Japanese original and the culturally adapted versions as good and cool. Nobody tries to yell at Power Rangers fans that the show is Not Good because the setting was changed, the villain's motivation and character were warped beyond all recognition, etc. It's generally understood that there's people who prefer their spandex superheroes with 90s butt-rock riffs, token diversity casting, and a fat man being hit with a cream pie, and it's okay to respect them. The last time I ever saw this kind of "you can't like both" hostilities between the people who liked Americanized heavily changed storylines and the originals, was back when #TV-Nihon was just beginning to mangle live action projects, and Kingranger would kick-ban you from the channel for saying you liked PR more. That kind of thing happened a lot back then. We got over it now. It's just something you have to expect when it comes to legacy projects (i.e. their Fox days, pre-Disney buyout) from this organization. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:29 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 23:19
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Craptacular! posted:I don't think Saban Entertainment ever found a Japanese property where they felt screwing with the plot wasn't appropriate. Considering one of them is in this thread it doesn't seem like it. The only fandoms that act this way nowadays are the Dragon ball Z fans and some Digimon fans.
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May 27, 2017 23:23
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I don't think anyone deserves mockery. But I'm not going to praise a show that's full of holes and downright terrible writing, or call an arguable censorship dodge that turns a character's name into a pile of nonsense. The fact is, you can change things and still make a solid product, but at the end of the day, Digimon just adds up to too many of them. The growing pains shows like Naruto made to end up on the air are one thing, but the way Digimon has continued like this over a decade later is embarrassing. Hell, Bandai is still mixing up the names of "Ebonwumon" and "Zhuqiaomon", despite the anime writers catching it all the way back in 2001. I understand having nostalgia for it, but at the end of the day, the end product is full of holes. Hell, the argument that this is all absolutely unnecessary can be found in the Digimon franchise itself - the dub of "Reunion" is still being marketed and sold alongside DVDs for kids, and while it has changed names and the like in it, it's mostly accurate to the original script, doesn't add unneccessary pap and character warping banter, and it doesn't shy away from stuff that kids are perfectly capable of wrapping their heads around. I understand that there are reasons for why it happens, and I still respect people like Jeff Nimoy, Mary McGlynn, and all the voice actors at the end of the day because I know they were just doing a job. At the end of the day, those things are only reasons, part of an outdated production system that for whatever reason people still think is necessary. The end result doesn't hold up. Tribladeofchaos posted:Considering one of them is in this thread it doesn't seem like it. The only fandoms that act this way nowadays are the Dragon ball Z fans and some Digimon fans. If you think that's what I'm trying to do here, then I don't know what you want me to say to you. I'm approaching this from a standpoint of discussing the quality of what was produced, I don't care whether you decide to enjoy the dub or not. I haven't tried to insult anybody, even when people have called me "weird" and "pedantic". If you think I'm too argumentative, then whatever, but I'm trying to be about the show itself, not other people. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 23:39 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 23:34
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Congrats people like you are why anime fans get mocked. And typing walls of words doesn't make you correct either.
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May 27, 2017 23:37
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Basically the thing is, the minor hiccups like Mimi having a ghost brother for a gag, or Matt and TK being ambiguous as to their relation to begin with, they aren't important. Both moments happened exactly once each and as a kid I never remembered that they made a joke about Mimi having a kid brother or TK and Matt being half brothers. The latter one wasn't even likely the dub's fault. That was almost certainly a fault of translation and lack of context. It's not important, and it didn't impact how the show worked. They weren't glaring plot holes you could drive a truck into- they were pot holes that you only noticed if you paid extra attention to a five second bit of dialogue at the start of the show when they weren't even sure how much the Digimon could talk or what the hell they sounded like when they did. And honestly I'm really happy for the dub for no other reason than there was no way in Hell it was ever going to air in America in any other way. A higher quality product would have turned it into something more like Pokemon, which smoothed out any of the edges to a smooth finish. Or worse, YuGhiOh, which was right around the corner. It's like Godzilla King of the Monsters. Is it as well made a movie as the original? No, it's not. Is it as consistent as the original? Also no. One scene in particular was taken entirely out of order and if you know any Japanese at all you'd realize that they're talking about how to kill Godzilla before they even know Godzilla exists. But it was hugely important, and it kept almost everything that was good about the original as best it could under heavy censorship and alterations. Without Godzilla King of the Monsters, we wouldn't have the Godzilla franchise as we know it today. That is what made Godzilla a world wide phenomenon and ensured the legacy of those films and all that would come from them. Similarly, the Digimon dub of season 1 laid the pathway for Digimon being something other than another late 90s kids anime in Japan that only ultra nerds know about. And it did a good job at it. If Digimon had gotten a Four Kids One Piece dub, we might not have Digimon like we do now. We certainly wouldn't have Tri like we do now. It would have been remembered like the Ultraman Tiga dub- it wouldn't be remembered at all except by the few people who'd laugh at what a piece of poo poo it was.
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May 27, 2017 23:38
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Tribladeofchaos posted:Considering one of them is in this thread it doesn't seem like it. The only fandoms that act this way nowadays are the Dragon ball Z fans and some Digimon fans. TMNT has a few of these because of the tone disparity between the original gritty Eastman stuff, the radi-cool Saturday Mornings cartoon it spawned, and the middle-ground of every other later project that carried the name.
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May 27, 2017 23:38
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TFRazorsaw posted:I don't think anyone deserves mockery. But I'm not going to praise a show that's full of holes and downright terrible writing, or call an arguable censorship dodge that turns a character's name into a pile of nonsense. The fact is, you can change things and still make a solid product, but at the end of the day, Digimon just adds up to too many of them. The growing pains shows like Naruto made to end up on the air are one thing, but the way Digimon has continued like this over a decade later is embarrassing. Hell, Bandai is still mixing up the names of "Ebonwumon" and "Zhuqiaomon", despite the anime writers catching it all the way back in 2001. So stop complaining about it like those who can tolerate the end product are wrong for doing so. No one is saying you're not allowed to like what you like, but quite honestly we don't need to know about how you can't stand it. We get it, you thinks they're badly done, and in some ways you're correct, but for a lot of us that stupid poo poo just makes it more entertaining, or makes it funny. We can always go watch a sub if we want, but the sub isn't going to do hilarious poo poo like try to combine two movies together while slicing out an entire subplot, or changing rice balls to hamburgers, or painting over guns and having the world's most dangerous finger pointing contests. If you don't like it, fine, but don't poo poo on the rest of us for what we like.
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May 27, 2017 23:41
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Maybe Transformer fans? At least there used to be. I think they've chilled out in the last decade
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May 27, 2017 23:41
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Burkion posted:Maybe Transformer fans? No, they still exist. It's just that the wiki that everyone goes to is run by the segment of the fandom that's cool with all the inconsistent, stupid poo poo, and celebrates it. You can easily find the segments of the fandom that can't pull their heads out of their asses, though, and they're still loud. It's just, what they shout doesn't matter, because there's so much Transformers media to go around that most everyone can find what they like.
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May 27, 2017 23:46
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I haven't poo poo on anyone. The most I've said about anyone in this entire discussion is pointing out a past discussion between myself and Burkion. Meanwhile, you've all called me weird, pedantic, said I'm trying to ruin people's fun, and "the worst example of an otaku", when all I've done is try and lay out my points and respond to them. I can tolerate being told I'm too fixated on this topic, which is something I struggle with due to a combination of stubbornness and a tendency to overshare and fixate, but I haven't said ANYTHING about you people being wrong or bad people for enjoying the dub. I've even given the dub credit for things the kind of person you seem to think I am would write off simply for existing. I'm sorry, but what the hell? What the actual loving hell?
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May 27, 2017 23:48
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TFRazorsaw posted:I understand that there are reasons for why it happens, and I still respect people like Jeff Nimoy, Mary McGlynn, and all the voice actors at the end of the day because I know they were just doing a job. At the end of the day, those things are only reasons, part of an outdated production system that for whatever reason people still think is necessary. The end result doesn't hold up. I don't think anyone still thinks it's necessary. It's just a part of what the franchise is to them, and presenting it as-is doesn't grab the nostalgia correctly because you have nostalgia for a different, occasionally tongue-in-cheek version that happened due to priorities of people putting business before art (because it was assumed there was no money at all in anime as art, which "anime as art" is what you're working towards when you try to put the most accurate translation possible on a thing and tell kids that it's Japanese and the cultures are different so deal with it.) It's not unlike how people still like old Walt Disney films, even after learning about the times when he was a scumbag. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 27, 2017 |
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May 27, 2017 23:49
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Craptacular! posted:I don't think anyone still thinks it's necessary. It's just a part of what the franchise is to them, and presenting it as-is doesn't grab the nostalgia correctly because you have nostalgia for a different, occasionally tongue-in-cheek version that happened due to priorities of people putting business before art (because it was assumed there was no money at all in anime as art, which "anime as art" is what you're working towards when you try to put the most accurate translation possible on a thing and tell kids that it's Japanese and the cultures are different so deal with it.) I will note, when I said "people who still think this is necessary", I mean people involved in the production, not the fans.
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May 27, 2017 23:51
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Or to put it another way, Digimon is different things to different people. It's not the worst series in this regard.
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May 27, 2017 23:52
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Craptacular! posted:I think both Toei and Saban expected Saban to MMPR up Digimon and invent a whole new backstory out of the scraps, and as circumstances continue you can hear the Saban people throwing ideas away that they can't pretend anymore. They did a lot of "American Kids Show Must Take Place In America", until it completely contradicted what was seen onscreen and they shifted gears. I agree with this to an extent (baring in mind that Disney held the rights for a period of time) and can see that being the case since that was the practice of the time. Kurui Reiten put it much more elegantly than I could but I would add that the three changes you noted make sense in context: Saban hadn't been told that Plotmon was a dog and thus assumed that it was a cat because of Gatomon since alternative dub name hadn't been proposed yet (the fact that Nyaramon is also feline-esque lends credence to this assumption). Likewise, the name Layla derived from לילה which translates to "night" and is the root of the name Lilith. And as a bonus, there's a Persian love story called Layla and Majnun where the titular woman inspires an obsessive, maddening love which ties into Laylamon being the Demon Lord of Lust. I would also note that those changing standards Kuirui mentioned are also why the new Sailor Moon dub is straight to DVD, a great deal of its content would not fly on TV today. That said, I do think the others were too harsh to you and for that I apologize but you do need to understand that we've done considerable research on the subject of localization so we've seen similar assertions to yours many times. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 00:12 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 00:10
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I understand why this stuff happens. Everything you said is stuff I'm aware of, Chimera. But there's a difference between stuff like, just as an example, the kind of localization that ends up creating "Meicoomon speak" in the Tri. dub because no one watching it in the US is going to know what a Tottori dialect is, and... *gestures broadly to everything else we've been talking about. I'm not even necessarily against name changes for the monsters. At the end of the day, "Myotismon" is just as clever a name as "Vamdemon". I just want some consistency, some kind of consistent standards. Especially now, years later and considering Digimon installments are often separated by years at a time these days, I don't think that's too much to ask. And like, the kind of people that I've been compared to? I've seen the kind of people who hate on and rag on the dub so much they turn it on the people who enjoy it. They'd do poo poo like photoshop Jeff Nimoy into the devil and start petitions to get him fired and were doing so much damage to his professional reputation he had to warn the administrators of Megchan's board that he might pursue legal action. That's the kind of person they were all saying I'm like and I don't drat well enjoy the comparison. EDIT - Speaking of Jeff Nimoy, even he thinks combining three movies into one was a mistake, so. Whatever.
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May 28, 2017 00:27
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TFRazorsaw posted:I just want some consistency, some kind of consistent standards. Especially now, years later and considering Digimon installments are often separated by years at a time these days, I don't think that's too much to ask. And this is something I wholeheartedly agree with you on and not just on names. I would love for the Armor and Hybrid Levels as well as DigiFusion and Appmon to be incorporated into the null canon like how stuff from later Tranformers' series such as the Spark, Protoforms, Technorganics, and Mini-Cons were incorporated into its null canon. I've even given ideas on how this could be done before (e.g. Level of the Digimon Armor Digivolving determine what Level the Armor stage itself is equivalent to, the Hybrid Level being used exclusively by human/digimon hybrid characters and is equivalent to the Level of the Digimon form's species, and any Digimon can used in an Armament Digifuse as the Armament's operator as long as you have the Digimon required to make Armament itself; the Appmon are fine as they are though and just need to coexist with Digimon). quote:Speaking of Jeff Nimoy, even he thinks combining three movies into one was a mistake, so. Whatever. I don't think anyone actually thought that combining that three Digimon movies into one was a good idea, it was just something Fox mandated cause they wanted a full-length Digimon movie to rival Pokémon: The First Movie. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 01:15
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I linked to that one Sonic video because it more eloquently stated something I wanted to communicate to TFR, and I probably time-stamped it too early but: when your market is kids, consistency doesn't stick because you're constantly cycling your audience. Kids get too old for the thing, leave, new ones come in. It's not unlike the Country Bear Jamboree at Disney World, except you don't see the audience physically leaving and coming in. So, arguing that names have changed in twenty years, I get it, I do, but the rightful name of whatever to most people is whatever it was called when they saw it for the first time. I realize that leads to people asking what the hell you're talking about a lot, but also this is 19 year old content that was meant to live next to Hamster Dance Dot Com in the forgotten bin of 1998 when it was localized. It's only still alive because We Care.
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May 28, 2017 01:17
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I know all about the Sonic stuff, I cut my teeth in that fandom, the Transformers fandom, and a bunch of other series over the years. But having multiple continuities and stories is a thing people already accept Digimon as having; it has nothing to do with the overall quality of the english version or what it should strive towards. Toy lines can refresh themselves all they want, and I'll consider that a positive thing. It's not really an apt comparison. Sonic dropped its older US original continuity and created a compromise between "Robotnik" and "Eggman" because the franchise had outgrown being able to support two disparate visions for the story; they were streamlining the production and jettisoning an antiquated model that wasn't justifying itself anymore. In that sense it's rather *unlike* what Digimon is doing with its dubs. I get it, people will prefer what they want, but eventually, consistency is what most companies should ideally fall to. *insert snarky comment about Sonic and gameplay here, eyyyy* Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 01:33 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 01:29
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As stated before, that's the one thing I will completely agree with you on. And Craptacular, while I don't disagree with that I would point out that the same can be said for Pokémon as well: It was created as a fad but outlived its expected expiration date because of the fan support.
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May 28, 2017 01:48
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I'm glad we agree on that at least, Chimera. In other news, that new YuGiOh series sure is Digimon.
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May 28, 2017 02:40
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I know it's a long shot, but I hope the GEM Digimon figurines survive long enough to eventually give us Masaru and Agumon punching each other in the face.
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May 28, 2017 04:26
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TFRazorsaw posted:At least this one isn't trying to barely hide a second said of arms immediately behind the main one, like the Seraphimon toy did. I had that one, might not have been great as a transforming toy but he was pretty fun to play with TFRazorsaw posted:Nothing will ever be as bad as the DNA Digivolving Silphymon though. This one I also had, although I think they dropped the Tailmon mode for the American release cause I don't remember it at all Also not a great toy but I liked it decently enough as a kid because he had pretty decent articulation for a transforming toy that wasn't from Beast Wars PMush Perfect posted:
True, although I'll admit I stick with the Japanese names most of the time myself(although there are some exceptions, like I prefer Growlmon to Growmon for example) Rudoku posted:Daemon was the best of the censor dodgers. True, heck I like it better than his original Japanese name(Demon just feels doofy for some reason in comparison, like it's too obvious) TFRazorsaw posted:That's a gross mis-characterization of me, I think. If you want a positive example of a change for the sake of content, look at Data Squad - there was no way the network was going to let them put BomberNanimon on the air, so when they made "Citramon" they changed it to something that was fun, referential of the director's previous work, and made the best of a lovely situation. I do agree that Citramon was a good change, even if BomberNanimon is one of my favorite Digimon(which is kinda funny considering I think regular Nanimon is one of the worst Digimon of all) Waterfall of Salt posted:Diaboromon is a weird hill to die on because it's not even necessarily a censorship deal rather than a weird translation like Goburimon or SlushAngemon Goburimon is that one's original Japanese name though, calling it Goblinmon or Goblimon are dub based changes You are correct regarding SlashAngemon though Craptacular! posted:
Walt Disney wasn't a scumbag, not sure where you're getting that at all(not to say Walt didn't have flaws but when compared to many of the other Hollywood moguls both in his day and today he was pretty clean) Chimera-gui posted:And this is something I wholeheartedly agree with you on and not just on names. I would love for the Armor and Hybrid Levels as well as DigiFusion and Appmon to be incorporated into the null canon like how stuff from later Tranformers' series such as the Spark, Protoforms, Technorganics, and Mini-Cons were incorporated into its null canon. Armor and Hybrids can just become Digimon of the appropriate level(like most Armor and H-Spirits would be Adult stage, while B-Spirits and Nefertimon would be Perfects for example), while DigiXros can just be merged into the Jogress concept, similarly Appmon can just become standard Digimon, as it's four levels line up fine with the four Digimon stages that matter(honestly if it were up to me I'd just get rid of the two Baby stages)
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May 28, 2017 06:16
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PMush Perfect posted:What I'm saying here is that the Digimon fandom is awful and unpleaseable. Two pages later... PMush Perfect posted:What I'm saying here is that the Digimon fandom is awful and unpleaseable.
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May 28, 2017 06:27
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To be fair the weeboo who care about this dumb poo poo are just a vocal minorty.
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May 28, 2017 06:29
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edit - I hosed up. Is it possible for someone to delete this?
Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 06:34 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 06:30
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I feel like it's possible to do a story where Digimon and Appmon coexist without forcing the Appmon to become just like Digimon. Their abilities are also more heavily derived from actual programs and application functions while Digimon are more fantasy creatures with a digital slant. What I'd do is have the Net Ocean from Appmon be a dimension that is literally cyberspace and Appmon are born from applications, while the digital world and digimon themselves are born from information flowing out of it. They're cousins, but they exist on separate planes of existence. CharlestheHammer posted:To be fair the weeboo who care about this dumb poo poo are just a vocal minorty. quote:What I'm saying here is that the Digimon fandom is awful and unpleaseable. You know what? Just loving forget it. Message received. If this is how we're going to play it, then this won't come up again. I can clarify all I want, and point out parts where I actually was satisfied with the dub all I want, and you'll just continue to take what you want from it and ignore the rest while leaving personal insults on the table. Just. Whatever, guys.
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May 28, 2017 06:34
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drrockso20 posted:
Goblimon is an equally valid romanization though, that isn't even a dub name change (nor is SlushAngemon, incidentally) Etymologywise Goburimon/SlushAngemon are worse romanization choices but that doesn't make them valid romanization, was the point I was getting at
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May 28, 2017 06:35
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TFRazorsaw posted:You know what? Just loving forget it. Message received. If this is how we're going to play it, then this won't come up again. I can clarify all I want, and point out parts where I actually was satisfied with the dub all I want, and you'll just continue to take what you want from it and ignore the rest while leaving personal insults on the table. Just. Whatever, guys.
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May 28, 2017 06:39
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Waterfall of Salt posted:Goblimon is an equally valid romanization though, that isn't even a dub name change (nor is SlushAngemon, incidentally) Actually, the way things line up on Goblimon/Goburimon is weird. "Goburimon" is the raw romanization that BoA uses. The inspiration obviously points to "Goblimon" but... yeah. Goburimon was used in the video games and card games, but they managed to render it as "Goblimon" or "Goblinmon" for his appearances in the TV shows. BoA just continues to stick with "Goburimon". "Goburimon" is currently how the name is spelled in English in the Digimon Reference Book in Japan, on account of what Chimera-gui said earlier about English fluency in Japan being low, so it tends to vary. It's impossible to tell what Japan considers the "official" english spellings for their version, because the concept doesn't really exist for them, they just put the closest thing because english text is "cool" and pops out and is noticeable and stuff. Various digimon names have been rendered inconsistently like this, with such notable examples as "Paildoramon", "Sabmarimon", and "Chimairamon". Not arguing anymore, for the record, just clarifying what the situation is. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 06:47 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 06:42
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drrockso20 posted:Armor and Hybrids can just become Digimon of the appropriate level(like most Armor and H-Spirits would be Adult stage, while B-Spirits and Nefertimon would be Perfects for example), while DigiXros can just be merged into the Jogress concept, similarly Appmon can just become standard Digimon, as it's four levels line up fine with the four Digimon stages that matter(honestly if it were up to me I'd just get rid of the two Baby stages) For the thirty or so original Hybrid level species I can see Flamemon and Stabimon being Rookie level, the eleven human warriors as Champion, and eleven beast warriors as Ultimate, the six advanced Warriors along with EmperorGreymon and MagnaGarurumon being Mega, and Susanoomon as an Ultra. But I would still keep the Hybrid level itself around for human/digimon hybrids like the Tamers' Biomerged forms. Likewise Armor is not always so straightforward as there's also Drimogemon becoming Digmon hence the level-based equivalence idea so Nefertimon could be equivalent to Ultimate without necessarily being an actual Ultimate. Combining DNA Digivolution with DigiFusion is fine since the latter was derived from the former. I simply wanted to talk about Armament DigiFusions as a subcategory of DigiFusions. That said, I strongly oppose that last part since not only since getting rid of Fresh and In-Training altogether is not viable but as Razor noted, Appmon are not Digimon and should not be forcibly made into Digimon for the sake of close minded ignorance. It'd be like trying to argue that fungi should be classified as plants do to superficial similarities despite the fact that they are not closely related in the slightest. The cards can get away with that because they are not supposed to be canon in the first place. Such large-scale changes need to have a logical basis behind them. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 09:35 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 09:32
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Chimera-gui posted:Such large-scale changes need to have a logical basis behind them.
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May 28, 2017 10:56
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Cause that mindset has never failed before oh wait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnMQoGU4Npw Compare that to Transformers which, while not immune to bad decision-making, can compensate for that since the bad decisions tend to be exaggerated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JL6rJ3OoG94
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May 28, 2017 16:03
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Chimera-gui posted:Cause that mindset has never failed before oh wait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnMQoGU4Npw
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May 28, 2017 16:44
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You really should watch the videos regardless cause they make a lot of good points regarding nostalgia. Basically brainless cash grabs do not work, there does have to be some thought put into it. Case in point, He-Man and the Dreamworks Voltron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CYU-y8JL3k Bottom line: You have to be both consistent enough to not be all over the god drat place which is what Digimon is struggling with and is also the problem Thundercats while also being flexible enough to expand the mythos and update it for a new audience which Digimon does have a problem with as well because it hasn't really expanded its null canon since Adventure and is also why He-Man and G.I. Joe continue to fail as reboots. Transformers' success is because it has achieved the perfect balance of consistency and flexibility and Digimon needs that injected into its own DNA. Chimera-gui fucked around with this message at 17:13 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 16:59
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TFRazorsaw posted:Various digimon names have been rendered inconsistently like this, with such notable examples as "Paildoramon", "Sabmarimon", and "Chimairamon". Paild(o)ramon will never stop being hilarious to me because they somehow managed to write it both ways in one screen in 02.  That's some impressive lack of consistency right there.
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May 28, 2017 18:04
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Chimera-gui posted:Transformers' success is because it has achieved the perfect balance of consistency and flexibility and Digimon needs that injected into its own DNA. I don't want to watch the video, so can you just tell me which Transformers we're talking about? Are we talking about the IDW comics, or are we talking about the RID cartoon and the TF:Prime cartoon the preceeded it, or or are we talking about the film franchise which the people who make the first two have no influence over whatsoever? The latter part is important because the films are both the most financially successful part of the franchise but also the most creatively bankrupt. It's made in the same way that Warners makes DC superhero movies, by taking the IPs from it's subsidiary and then never consulting the people who make the original materials ever again. And it's successful not because it capitalizes on some nostalgia from Transformers, but because it throws in a whole bunch of jingoistic OOH-RAH poo poo and a bevy of models to gawk at who are bending over and showing skin. The TF movies and the whole idea of "here's our offering for kids, here's our offering for nostalgic adults" was analyzed to death by PR fans during their movie's release a few months ago, and what it comes down to is that TF movies throw in a lot of red meat to middle-of-the-road America to make sure it's not just 38 year old guys with mint-in-box toys who come to see the film, because if it was just them it would flop. Much like the PR film did. Also, that it's hard to generate nostalgia for something that never once actually disappeared and went away for some time (although Digimon certainly did). Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 19:31 on May 28, 2017 |
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May 28, 2017 19:24
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I mean Transformers the franchise as a whole, just the fact that you can name multiple thing that are part of the Transformers brand shows exactly what I'm are talking about when I say flexibility.
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May 28, 2017 20:16
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