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your friend wicka
Jun 28, 2007

SPAGHETTI CARBONARA POSTING

#essereFerrari


FuzzySkinner posted:

I think the reason people don't watch the Indy 500 is simply because they don't know it's on TV.

i don't live in indiana anymore so it doesn't affect me, but the fact that it's not televised in the city it's named after is loving hilarious. like it has zero relevance in indiana anymore because it's effectively not a thing that exists for the bulk of the state's population.

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Can we just gas this thread and start over

your friend wicka
Jun 28, 2007

SPAGHETTI CARBONARA POSTING

#essereFerrari


Cygni posted:

Can we just gas this thread and start over

this thread is entirely americans and look how bad it sucks. qed

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



be nice wicka posted:

this thread is entirely americans and look how bad it sucks. qed

Americans suck.

Give us some Brazilians, Australians, and Canadians up in here.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Cygni posted:

Can we just gas this thread and start over

keep in mind I would have been content to not post had Fuzzy not posted that article and threw my name into it

you guys really need to stop doing that

"god I hate when Viking posts about ovals..... hey look an article about ovals, VIKING, WHAT SAY YOU"

*reads response, gets angry*

Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jan 5, 2015

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





FuzzySkinner posted:

My friends for example? Watched Petit Le Mans with me along with Formula 1. They were impressed with how the cars looked, and overall the skill it took to drive on some of those road courses.

...They were not truly aware either of those even existed until I was watching it with them on a couch while drinking one night.

On the flipside? They make fun of NASCAR and consider it a joke. They don't find the racing interesting, and they don't even remotely relate to anything that's apart of that element.

Please don't post total lies in this thread, thanks. There is no one on earth who likes WEC.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

Let's talk about Actual IndyCar 2015 Stuff.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/112186-indycar-2015-aero-kit-q-a

quote:

Q. You're one of the few who has seen both manufacturers' aero kits on the track. Will fans notice differences from last season?

Tino Belli, IndyCar director of aerodynamic development: Differences between the 2014 Dallara chassis and the 2015 aero kits and between the Chevy and Honda aero kits will be quite easily spotted by an interested fan. Especially to someone who is interested in technology, theyíll see many differences between the cars. At speed and with different color schemes, it might be more difficult to see the differences.

Itís certainly not going to be a spec car, and itís not spec even within the Chevrolet or Honda environments.

The Chevy might not always run in exactly the same configuration between a Penske and Ganassi car, and the same with Honda between, say, an Andretti and Schmidt Peterson Motorsports car because teams will have options.

Yessssssss.

Full Collapse
Dec 4, 2002



Hoping for IL-15 style engine covers.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


WindyMan posted:

Let's talk about Actual IndyCar 2015 Stuff.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/112186-indycar-2015-aero-kit-q-a


Yessssssss.

This is cool and good.

Peanut President posted:

Please don't post total lies in this thread, thanks. There is no one on earth who likes WEC.

C'mon man, all race fans need a series they can collectively point and laugh at. It fosters a common ground among disparate groups.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





KingShibby posted:

Once again give me one year, this year, and I will do my best to fix this problem. Let's just say my solution involves another similar thing that many of us are a part of... :wink:

The 2016 IndyCar Series Presented By EVE Online

VikingSkull posted:

That's the part I disagree with about that article. I'm not proposing a return to roadsters (though, like pnut, I'd watch the poo poo out of that), but let's not act like they can't change the cars. Common tub, single element front and rear wings, wider, softer tires that fall off, no undertray aero, no sidepod aero, open engine rules. Also, if someone wants to run a front engine car using the common tub, let them! Bring the design element back to Indy, and allow a path for small teams who wish to use stock blocks or other cost cutting measures a way to at least attempt the 500. Cut down on the reliance on aero, removing costly wind tunnel time, and you increase car counts. Increased car counts, diversity in car styles, and more ovals (ideally a 60/40 mix favoring ovals) and you'll get the fans back.

I don't think anyone's advocating for keeping the DW12 as-is - I mean we're all still waiting to see what those aero kits that should've been here a few years ago will do. But I don't see most of those changes bringing the cost to compete down significantly. You might get the cost of putting together something that ranks as "an entry" down, but unless someone decides to wring the rules for all they're worth and come up with Son Of The Beast, it's still going to be hard to compete against teams that can afford more windtunnel time, more CFD time, and Ilmor / HPD engine contracts.

I don't think a month of May that consists of 20 fast cars and 40 field-fillers in whatever the gently caress they put together is necessarily going to bring in more fans than "we managed to get 33 DW12s", ignoring the Lotus debacle.

And at any rate, if you have different rules for the 500 than the rest of the year... you're just recreating the conditions that lead to the split yet again. You'd need to make stock-blocks at least legal year-round, and then you'd probably want to do something to make them not dangerously slow on road courses due to the inherent weight penalties.


Edit: gently caress yeah, at least in theory these aero kits are turning out to be a nice step forward.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

VikingSkull posted:

C'mon man, all race fans need a series they can collectively point and laugh at. It fosters a common ground among disparate groups.

I was under the impression that this was Formula 1

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


WindyMan posted:

I was under the impression that this was Formula 1

Well, F1 fans would object. The joke is no one watches WEC to defend it.

IOwnCalculus posted:

I don't think anyone's advocating for keeping the DW12 as-is - I mean we're all still waiting to see what those aero kits that should've been here a few years ago will do. But I don't see most of those changes bringing the cost to compete down significantly. You might get the cost of putting together something that ranks as "an entry" down, but unless someone decides to wring the rules for all they're worth and come up with Son Of The Beast, it's still going to be hard to compete against teams that can afford more windtunnel time, more CFD time, and Ilmor / HPD engine contracts.

I don't think a month of May that consists of 20 fast cars and 40 field-fillers in whatever the gently caress they put together is necessarily going to bring in more fans than "we managed to get 33 DW12s", ignoring the Lotus debacle.

And at any rate, if you have different rules for the 500 than the rest of the year... you're just recreating the conditions that lead to the split yet again. You'd need to make stock-blocks at least legal year-round, and then you'd probably want to do something to make them not dangerously slow on road courses due to the inherent weight penalties.

These are fair criticisms and not ones easily solved. IMO personally, the oval thing is my biggest gripe, I'd be a hell of a lot more interested in the series regardless of the car if it just had more ovals. That's what I estimate the biggest issue to be, and aero kits might be the way to differentiate the cars enough to get people interested.

As it is now, I think a lot of people who don't know better just look at Indy as F1 Lights. I know that's what my circle of friends think.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Peanut President posted:

Please don't post total lies in this thread, thanks. There is no one on earth who likes WEC.

That wasn't a WEC race.

That was TUSC.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Well, no one watches TUSC either (I do)

Full Collapse
Dec 4, 2002



In related news, PWC owns.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



VikingSkull posted:

Well, no one watches TUSC either (I do)

As do I.

Miss ALMS though. :smith:.


VikingSkull posted:

keep in mind I would have been content to not post had Fuzzy not posted that article and threw my name into it,

I was being an rear end. ;).

Wasn't intended to piss you off or anything, just was kind of teasing you is all.

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Minto Took posted:

In related news, PWC owns.

The most correct statement made in this thread in a long time.

KingShibby
Jan 30, 2004

Wherever you go, whatever you do, I will be right here waiting for you...



Yams Fan

IOwnCalculus posted:

The 2016 IndyCar Series Presented By EVE Online

:barf:

Minto Took posted:

In related news, PWC owns.

That it does



I can't wait for March 16th and the beginning of Spring Training at Barber aka first public unveiling of the new aero kits. Also I'll be there with my digital camera :getin:

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!




Peanut President posted:

Please don't post total lies in this thread, thanks. There is no one on earth who likes WEC.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

VikingSkull posted:

These are fair criticisms and not ones easily solved. IMO personally, the oval thing is my biggest gripe, I'd be a hell of a lot more interested in the series regardless of the car if it just had more ovals. That's what I estimate the biggest issue to be, and aero kits might be the way to differentiate the cars enough to get people interested.

History has shown that "just add more ovals" by itself doesn't work, though. It's only one part of the formula. You need good drivers, recognizable drivers, and a compelling race day experience for grandstand patrons, which includes full fields (24+ on short ovals, 30+ on super speedways). Only after you get all of those things can you afford to put more ovals on the schedule.

Then again, this has been the death spiral that IndyCar has found itself in: It can't add more ovals because it doesn't have the drivers or fields to make more of them viable, which means it can't attract the drivers or fields necessary to make adding more ovals viable.

I think the solution to this would be to throw more money at the ovals that are already there and make a Triple Crown or oval points championship extremely lucrative. Get the interest back from fans and drivers/owners, and then work from there.

Peanut President
Nov 5, 2008





FuzzySkinner posted:

That wasn't a WEC race.

That was TUSC.

Dude the Petit is a WEC race, it's literally a qualifier for Le Mans. The FIA isn't that stupid. lol

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


FuzzySkinner posted:

I was being an rear end. ;).

Wasn't intended to piss you off or anything, just was kind of teasing you is all.

Oh I know, but that's how it starts. I actively try not to discuss ovals in here because it seems to upset people, but sometimes I gotta.

WindyMan posted:

History has shown that "just add more ovals" by itself doesn't work, though. It's only one part of the formula. You need good drivers, recognizable drivers, and a compelling race day experience for grandstand patrons, which includes full fields (24+ on short ovals, 30+ on super speedways). Only after you get all of those things can you afford to put more ovals on the schedule.

Then again, this has been the death spiral that IndyCar has found itself in: It can't add more ovals because it doesn't have the drivers or fields to make more of them viable, which means it can't attract the drivers or fields necessary to make adding more ovals viable.

I think the solution to this would be to throw more money at the ovals that are already there and make a Triple Crown or oval points championship extremely lucrative. Get the interest back from fans and drivers/owners, and then work from there.


Yeah, it's a terrible catch-22. That being said, don't make high paying oval races again, please. It ends badly.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





WindyMan posted:

I think the solution to this would be to throw more money at the ovals that are already there and make a Triple Crown or oval points championship extremely lucrative. Get the interest back from fans and drivers/owners, and then work from there.

This leads me back to something I said last year - does it ever make sense, then, for Indycar to chase down some oval events for the sake of balancing the schedule? The number one reason they don't go back to places like Phoenix is because they can't show anyone that it will make any money. At what point does the series stop trying to make millions at each individual race?

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


That's what I've been saying for awhile. It might behoove them to just negotiate from a position of weakness for a few years until they get some power back. If they pay to race somewhere for 5 years or so and at the end of that contract they can show an increase in attendance, then they can renegotiate.

Sometimes I get the feeling that they don't do this simply because 30 years ago they wouldn't have. Pride really fucks with a man.

Feels Villeneuve
Oct 7, 2007

Kanye West - Touch the Sky



Nobody went to Phoenix when the IRL was running an all-oval schedule either.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Alain Post posted:

Nobody went to Phoenix when the IRL was running an all-oval schedule either.

Yup, though a lot of that was that people here were really burned by the IRL-grade rejects since the track went with the IRL right from the get-go. It was a really, really bad sign when the ticket scalpers stopped showing up.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


The Copper World Classic going away didn't help. USAC also didn't help with those loving retarded side pod Silver Crown cars.

e- Look how awesome this poo poo was

.....and a Vukovich wins the supermod race, woulda been nice to see him at Indy, huh?

Seizure Meat fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 5, 2015

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Man, I'd forgotten how different Phoenix looked without the Allison stands in 1/2.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


That and the old dogleg, old Phoenix owned and is super fun in iRacing. Try a sprinter there, you'll poo poo yourself.

tupacalypse
Jan 1, 2013

by Pragmatica


Can we just ban Fuzzy from making posts in this thread?

Bentai
Jul 8, 2004


NERF THIS!




So the first race of the season is next month right?

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Rip flat Phoenix and flat, bizzaro indianapolis-clone homestead.

hunnert car pileup
Oct 28, 2007

the first world was a mistake



*sees 50 new posts*

Thread still sucks but at least no one died

Boomer The Cannon
Oct 27, 2011

Gotta see it live!




Oval races without undercard events won't draw for poo poo, and NASCAR either has all of the undercard series at their control, or has the other ones who could theoretically run a non-speedway track by the balls.

Seizure Meat
Jul 23, 2008

by Smythe


Boomer The Cannon posted:

Oval races without undercard events won't draw for poo poo, and NASCAR either has all of the undercard series at their control, or has the other ones who could theoretically run a non-speedway track by the balls.

Buy out ISMA :colbert:

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



Boomer The Cannon posted:

Oval races without undercard events won't draw for poo poo, and NASCAR either has all of the undercard series at their control, or has the other ones who could theoretically run a non-speedway track by the balls.

For as much criticism as non-oval indy races get? That is the one thing they definitely offer.

Nothing like walking through Mid Ohio, and seeing the PWC/MRTI cars being wheeled through the paddock.

It's the one thing that Indycar and those series get right.

FuzzySkinner fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Jan 6, 2015

Boomer The Cannon
Oct 27, 2011

Gotta see it live!




VikingSkull posted:

Buy out ISMA :colbert:
gently caress it, 500 miles of Supermodifieds :getin::fap:

FuzzySkinner
May 23, 2012



I think it was Cale Yarborough who actually ran Supermodifieds to train to run Indy fwiw.

He said they were actually the best thing to race to transition from Stock Cars to Indy.

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Cygni posted:

Rip flat Phoenix and flat, bizzaro indianapolis-clone homestead.

OG Phoenix forever.

Boomer The Cannon posted:

gently caress it, 500 miles of Supermodifieds :getin::fap:

Would so watch this.

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gret
Dec 12, 2005

goggle-eyed freak




Have Stadium SUPER Trucks support every IndyCar race.

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