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Pick posted:What?? No they're not. They are in Canada.
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Jan 2, 2015 00:16
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Pick posted:Here are the ones starring minorities I can think of offhand: Erm, by person of color, I meant specifically "black." I had honestly forgotten about Princess and the Frog, as I have not actually seen that one yet, but in the animated films I have watched, black characters have typically been side characters (like Wasabi from Big Hero Six), wise old mentor figures, or comic relief (like Eddie Murphy's character in... well, pretty much every animated movie that he's been part of). When I consider all the movies that have a specifically black protagonist, you think of PatF, and frigging Shark Tale. And Osmosis Jones, I suppose. Perhaps I haven't been seeing the right movies. I do feel better about the diversity of children's entertainment after reading your list, but you have to remember, a lot of the movies there (Aladdin and Prince of Egypt most egregiously) have main characters* which were... shall we say, highly European-ified for the crowd. And even beyond that, isn't it interesting that that nearly every other ethnic minority was given a main character in a mainstream, animated movie, and black kids had to settle for Goliath on Gargoyles and freaking Osmosis Jones until freaking 2009? Am I completely off base here, or do I have a salient point? When watching the trailer for Home, I was struck by Tip, and how serious, competent, not funny, free of stereotype, and obviously of African descent she was. It seemed like a milestone to me, and in 2014, it really kinda shouldn't be. *And by main character here, I mean protagonist, as in the person who instigates and moves the plot. Russel doesn't count, as he is entirely reactionary.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:32
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Pick posted:This is not counting the slightly odd ones like Kung Fu Panda. Po is obviously meant to be Chinese, but in a weird way where he is also Jack Black and a panda. Whether Dreamworks' Sinbad is whitewashed/counts is a difficult question. The lead human character in Spirit is a Native American, but is obviously overshadowed by the horsies.
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Jan 2, 2015 01:58
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And I specifically didn't say "black", I said "minorities".quote:And even beyond that, isn't it interesting that that nearly every other ethnic minority was given a main character in a mainstream, animated movie, and black kids had to settle for Goliath on Gargoyles and freaking Osmosis Jones until freaking 2009? Don't you mean Eliza Maza? She is half black and half Native-American. Pick fucked around with this message at 02:01 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 01:58
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achillesforever6 posted:Isn't Sinbad supposed to be Greek in the Dreamworks movie? Which sucks because it could have been really progressive of them to make an Arabic hero for a kid's film in 2004. Still a fun film though just for Eris' animation alone. Sinbad's ethnicity is not stated outright. However, the film is set in Syracuse and that is where Proteus states he met Sinbad as a child, where Syracuse is on the island of Sicily which though Italian now was historically Greek. e: also, grizzly bears are not endangered in Canada either. They're IUCN "Least Concern".
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Jan 2, 2015 02:04
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^^ when is Sinbad set? (I've never actually seen it  ) Sicily had enormous middle-eastern heritage after late antiquity; it's not outlandish for them to pretend he's middle-eastern. resurgam40 posted:(Aladdin and Prince of Egypt most egregiously) ? am I missing something obvious here 'cause Prince of Egypt is one of the movies I would point to that's good with regards to not white-ifying its characters. edit: to clarify, we are talking about Dreamworks' 1998 Oscar-Winning animated biblical epic rather than Ridley Scott's 2014 garbage right? Koramei fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 02:04
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Pick posted:And I specifically didn't say "black", I said "minorities". A Chinese person is not a "minority" in ancient China.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:04
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Koramei posted:^^ when is Sinbad set? (I've never actually seen it Well it's still a fricking long way from Basrah, but yeah I think the switch was still done with care.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:10
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Irish Joe posted:A Chinese person is not a "minority" in ancient China. Then use person of color instead, you pedantic gently caress.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:11
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Macaluso posted:The thing that absolutely completely destroyed that scene, and the funeral scene after it, was the fact that Hiccup told Toothless to gently caress off, and then Drago took him and flew away. So the entire time they were doing the funeral and mourning Hiccup's dad, in my head I was just like GO SAVE TOOTHLESS, DO THIS LATER!! It completely took away from what should've been a big emotional part of the movie, because I was far more invested in them saving Toothless. They really should've had a minute to mourn, and then headed off to save Toothless and then at the very end do the funeral scene. Exactly! I was in that exact frame of mind, and you're right that just re-arranging the order of the scenes would've made the funeral much more powerful, and we would've been able to sink into that moment and feel it. Pick posted:Po is obviously meant to be Chinese, but in a weird way where he is also Jack Black and a panda. Well, and because he's Jack Black, people probably read him as a geeky, white American dude, and a lot of the humor comes from him behaving in such an "un-Chinese" manner, relative to the other characters. The characters who really come across as "coded Chinese" are Oogway, Monkey, Po's dad, and Tigress. The villains are British (huh), and pretty much everyone else reads as American-ish. But yeah, Home caught my eye because the protagonist is a racial minority when she doesn't "have" to be, and at least in the trailers, they don't treat it like a big drat deal or a setup for a series of punchlines.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:32
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How is the dub of Princess Kaguya? Does it lose anything over the original version?
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Jan 2, 2015 02:56
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axleblaze posted:How is the dub of Princess Kaguya? Does it lose anything over the original version? I haven't seen the subtitled version, but the dub is exquisite in its own right. I was actually kinda shocked because songs figure very importantly in the film's narrative, and I was worried that in translation the dubbers would have altered them to make them more formalistically comfortable or culturally identifiable from a Western perspective. What I actually found out was that the English-dub lyrics of the songs in the film were virtually exact transcriptions of the translations used in the Cannes press kits. They haven't tried to force them to rhyme, they haven't altered their basic structure, it's a highly respectful dub that expects you to appreciate the music as coming from a deeply spiritual place.
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Jan 2, 2015 02:59
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axleblaze posted:How is the dub of Princess Kaguya? Does it lose anything over the original version? It loses something, but it's still good.
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Jan 2, 2015 03:30
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Is the English dub of the song online anywhere? I'm curious to hear it now. I had the original version in my head for like a week after watching it. edit: it's a bit weird that of the versions to showcase, one of the ones they decided to go with is when Kaguya can barely will herself to sing. I still love it though. Koramei fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 03:40
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Pick posted:And I specifically didn't say "black", I said "minorities". There's also "The Road to El Dorado" and you might also count Disney's "Atlantis" even though that film's natives are a made-up minority. I was always irked that the little boy in Disney's "The Rescuers Down Under" wasn't an aborigine child (it would have made perfect sense because of his rapport with animals and the natural world), but I guess they couldn't have used the white hunter then.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:54
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I'd maybe go for Atlantis, since Kida is pretty important (though gets less narrative attention than Milo), but I don't think Chell gets nearly enough screentime to be a threat to the main two guys' hold on lead characters.
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Jan 2, 2015 04:58
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One thing I like about the treatment of the Villagers in The Road to El Dorado is that the important ones don't buy the con for one minute. The High Priest is (understandably) disgusted and insulted, the Chief allows it because it has a dual purpose of (1) giving the people he rules hope and renewed faith and (2) Allowing him to troll the hell out of them (ie "to Xiabalba?"), and the main girl wants to take a bunch of previously-thought-to-be-worthless money run off and see the world. It helps make the "Let's con these naive islanders" plot more palatable.
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Jan 2, 2015 06:36
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Back in the old thread when The Prince of Egypt came up, The Road to El Dorado came up as an interesting contrast piece that, though the music isn't as good generally, the animation isn't as well done, ironically ends up being a more nuanced film on the nature of religion, faith, and the relationship between god (as both an entity and a concept) and man. "It's Tough to Be a God" is still one of my favorite musical numbers in any animated film.
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Jan 2, 2015 07:18
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Pick posted:And I specifically didn't say "black", I said "minorities". Can I say I adore Eliza Maza? She's just a really good character
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Jan 2, 2015 07:30
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She's a great character, absolutely. e: I stand by the fact that Gargoyles remains an almost impossibly good show for what it is. Pick fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Jan 2, 2015 |
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Jan 2, 2015 07:32
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Pick posted:She's a great character, absolutely. I loved the attention that other cultures got throughout its run when the main characters traveled to places outside of New York, it served as a jumping off point for my interest in mythologies other than ancient Greek/Roman growing up. You can tell that some episodes had like a B-team of animators working on them as the animation quality varies quite a bit but a lot of it is still pretty serviceable and fun to watch, nostalgia (mostly) aside. And yeah Eliza's great and I liked that most of her family got screentime, too.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:17
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It's a soap opera for sure, but most children's cartoons weren't soaps.
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Jan 2, 2015 08:26
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axleblaze posted:How is the dub of Princess Kaguya? Does it lose anything over the original version? All I've had a chance to see was the dub, and having no other context I would say it was about as breathtaking as it was heartbreaking. Lots of celebrities in there I couldn't even place til after the movie was over, too, which is always a nice bonus. The only thing that felt a bit awkward was maybe the choice of translation for Kaguya's initial name--not sure what it was in Japanese (wikipedia says 'Takenoko') but for the dub they call her 'Lil' Bamboo', which while literally correct sounds silly in some of the more dramatic scenes. That's a small gripe though because how else could they have localized that, really Speaking of Ghibli though, is there any word on whether or not When Marnie Was There is getting an English sub or dub release? I still really want to see that but haven't heard anything about it since the initial trailers.
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Jan 2, 2015 12:05
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R.e. films featuring minority characters. Disney's "The Emperor's New Groove" hasn't been mentioned yet. I suppose "The Book of Life" counts as well.
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Jan 2, 2015 15:55
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Yeah, I'm gonna second the position that we use the term 'people of color' or the actual ethnicity of a character rather than 'minority.'
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Jan 2, 2015 16:10
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axleblaze posted:HTTYD2 wasn't bad, it jsut didn't really come together overall. It was extremely pretty and I really liked the Mother/Son stuff in it but alot of the other stuff seemed kind of half baked with most of the other characters just given not a whole lot to do. It's also kind doesn't sit well with me to have a kid's movie whose lesson seems to be "sometimes trying to talk out your problems with someone is a bad idea because some people are just evil". Saw it this week, and yeah, "half-baked" is a really good summary. Too many plot-elements and characters that served no purpose. I like Astrid and her friends but they did nothing but prop up the exceedingly pointless Kit Harrington character. Hiccup's mother had a great intro but was just sort of hanging around in the background for the majority of the movie, too. I was expecting some form of conflict from her having basically just wandered away from her husband and tiny baby because she saw a nice dragon, but nah, they both forgave her instantly. And the bad guy was a paper-thin character, didn't get anything from him beyond "bad man have big dragon". They touched on him having his village attacked by dragons repeatedly and him having lost a limb to them- this is (pratically) true of Hiccup too, so why not play up the parallels and make the point be that Hiccup chose peace but Big Dragon Man (honestly don't even recall his name) chose war. Instead they just had a big unimpressive fight and he wandered away leaving nothing whatsoever resolved in his wake. I dunno, the whole thing felt like there were some good ideas and some great visuals, but it needed tightening up something fierce.
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Jan 2, 2015 16:51
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Song of the Sea is so good. Go see it! It's got a whole Miyazaki vibe and manages to not only out-do The Secret of Kells, but stand out as one of the best movies of 2014.
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Jan 3, 2015 01:07
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Kojiro posted:Saw it this week, and yeah, "half-baked" is a really good summary. Too many plot-elements and characters that served no purpose. I like Astrid and her friends but they did nothing but prop up the exceedingly pointless Kit Harrington character. Hiccup's mother had a great intro but was just sort of hanging around in the background for the majority of the movie, too. I was expecting some form of conflict from her having basically just wandered away from her husband and tiny baby because she saw a nice dragon, but nah, they both forgave her instantly. I sort of get the feeling that they retconned the death of the mother because they couldn't come up with anything else interesting to do with the other characters. They also killed off Hiccup's dad because they didn't know what else to do with him.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:00
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So I watched two more episodes of Murder House. During the Halloween episodes, I really appreciated that the series had become a shitload of ghosts just trolling the gently caress out of this poor family. Also loving them that one time, that was messed up.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:04
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I sort of get the feeling that they retconned the death of the mother because they couldn't come up with anything else interesting to do with the other characters. They also killed off Hiccup's dad because they didn't know what else to do with him. It annoys me more than it probably should that in the original they pretty much describe his mom as a big viking woman (there's a line about Hiccup's helmet being made of half her breast plate) and then when we see her she is nothing like that.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:09
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axleblaze posted:It annoys me more than it probably should that in the original they pretty much describe his mom as a big viking woman (there's a line about Hiccup's helmet being made of half her breast plate) and then when we see her she is nothing like that. But what if a character's mother isn't sexually attractive? 
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Jan 3, 2015 04:14
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Pick posted:But what if a character's mother isn't sexually attractive? Freud would be pissed.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:16
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There are other large Viking women in the backgrounds from time to time, I swear Valka is the only reedy adult on that entire island.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:19
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To be fair there is arguably a thematic reason for. Valka is supposed to be where Hiccup gets all that makes him different from all the other Vikings from, so it would make sense design wise to make her look more like him. Still, they don't really make her body type match up all that much to how Hiccup was or is so that read kind of falls apart.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:25
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Stoic probably bought her the smallest size they had available on Berk. That was a training breastplate.
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Jan 3, 2015 04:51
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BioEnchanted posted:One thing I like about the treatment of the Villagers in The Road to El Dorado is that the important ones don't buy the con for one minute. The High Priest is (understandably) disgusted and insulted, the Chief allows it because it has a dual purpose of (1) giving the people he rules hope and renewed faith and (2) Allowing him to troll the hell out of them (ie "to Xiabalba?"), and the main girl wants to take a bunch of previously-thought-to-be-worthless money run off and see the world. It helps make the "Let's con these naive islanders" plot more palatable. Road To El Dorado also has the funniest scene (for me at least) ever @5:55 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_tDoIGfm20 I'm Okay!!! SMASH I'm still okay!!  I love you Jim Cummings  I really miss Dreamworks 2D Animation, always dug the style they had for their movies, but then again I grew up on those late 90s early 2000s 2D animated films like Treasure Planet, Atlantis, Prince of Egypt, Sinbad, and Road To El Dorado
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Jan 3, 2015 05:01
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IShallRiseAgain posted:I sort of get the feeling that they retconned the death of the mother because they couldn't come up with anything else interesting to do with the other characters. They also killed off Hiccup's dad because they didn't know what else to do with him. Also, Super Saiyan Toothless.
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Jan 3, 2015 05:03
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achillesforever6 posted:I really miss Dreamworks 2D Animation, always dug the style they had for their movies, but then again I grew up on those late 90s early 2000s 2D animated films like Treasure Planet, Atlantis, Prince of Egypt, Sinbad, and Road To El Dorado IMO, Prince of Egypt has to be one of the most beautiful animated films ever made. Treasure Planet was visually fantastic as well -- the last of the really great, epic Disney 2D films, even if it wasn't very successful.
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Jan 3, 2015 05:29
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iSheep posted:Don't want to be all melodramatic but seems Pixar has been in a rut. What happened? When Pixar was bought by Disney, John Lassetter went off and resuscitated Walt Disney Feature Animation, Andrew Stanton and a lot of the Pixar braintrust* went on their Quixotic quest to make John Carter, Brad Bird got sidetracked by 1906 (which never got made) and then kickstarted his live action career with Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol. Pixar was basically the B-team's thing for a few years, and because of how long these films take, the effects are still kind of propagating. It's not the first time Pixar has floundered without supervision (the complete rewrites of Toy Story 2 and Ratatouille) and as the old guard returns from their side projects we'll probably see some improvements. *The Pixar braintrust also retooled Tron: Legacy for its reshoots.
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Jan 3, 2015 05:57
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Plus there's the apparent horrible glass ceiling problem, and that wage-fixing cartel thing. Pixar has some issues going on.
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Jan 3, 2015 06:23
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