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Diddie posted:We should all just be glad Jones/Henderson never happened Holy poo poo that would have been brutal. Maybe we can find some Ivan Drago style overpowered movie mismatch opponents or something for Jones to fight next, since anything short of a supermutant clearly isn't going to loving cut it.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:38
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Jones is going to open skulls at 185.
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Jan 4, 2015 07:44
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Bundt Cake posted:Cormier mentally broke after round 3, sorry all Well, he was getting hosed up right in his strengths by an overwhelming and imposing opponent. I feel like DC did a good job with what he had, it just turned out he had a lot less than he hoped against Jones' crazy rear end reach and leverage.
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Jan 4, 2015 08:12
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Yeah, he was gassing. Jones has his body fine-tuned for perfect cardio without sacrificing strength in a meaningful way, and it'd be stupid to discount his own wrestling skill - he's tall and strong and that gives him advantages, but seeing some of his lateral drops in previous fights, daaamn. Even early on he was moving people around in ways you just can't if you're only using strength. DC brought a very, very wrestling-centric sensibility to the fight, pushed the pace like Cain would have but Cormier can't bring Cain's cardio. I feel like his frame is really better for Heavyweight, but the division isn't very appealing if you can fight one lower. If he had paced himself better, he'd have been hosed up really early on - he HAD to fight at that pace to match Jones, and for all the poo poo I enjoy talking about Jon Jones as a brand, as a human being he is an amazingly complete fighter and seems on track to be the best ever. Hell of a lot worse people to lose to, even if he makes it harder by being such a shithead.
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Jan 4, 2015 08:20
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If you look at Cormier's previous fights where he's used a similar heavy-aggression strategy, he's pretty much always been able to secure a takedown (or five) immediately and pressure from the top to make the other dude carry his weight. He's used to being the ring general, but Jones is just more physically imposing and took that away from him. That left him running a much faster pace than I think he was used to against an opponent providing way more resistance than we've ever seen. He looked out of his element forced to dirty box with a dude who has arms nearly a foot longer - he chased the takedown until it ran him out of gas, imo.
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Jan 4, 2015 08:35
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We saw the fight too, nobody is discounting the role of him getting tenderized here. Not sure why that keeps getting harped on like folks are somehow missing it. He got hosed up, alright! If Jones had proved even a little less effective at killing DC's wrestling, at least offensively, could have gone differently, but standing up and slugging seemed like a backup plan carried out under duress.
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Jan 4, 2015 09:03
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origami posted:I remember cringing when I first saw this video - seems like a pretty bad idea from this professional keyboard jockey I mean I wouldn't do that, personally, because I've read good studies showing little benefit to natural training and extraordinary volume - hard to get your muscles to accommodate that kind of abuse. But I'm just some fucker on a forum and that's Cain Velasquez. I dunno. He's got a history of injury that makes that extra risky, it's not a good movement. Nonetheless I'm hesitant to tell people to stop doing what works for them in fitness and sports since science is often no older than ten years in the field. Some great workouts display terrible kinematics, if something happens that might be why but if nothing happens it may be a shortcut to some particular strength he thinks he needs to do his thing. Man, the Felder v Castillo fight was really something. I was more impressed with his striking and creativity than I was with Jon Jones', though lighter fighters always put on one hell of a show. He had some crazy good use of knees for both control and offensively, and that was a sick backfist to end things. That's a trick move in any fight, but he pulled it out of nowhere and that's how you knock a dude the gently caress out with a spinning backfist I guess!
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Jan 4, 2015 23:40
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Edit: Lots of words, but it's not a super safe exercise no - he'll probably keep doing it and he'll probably not get hurt. Safety isn't really a huge concern when the question is "can you get a heavy dude trying to knock your head into the ground off of you and/or keep him down" and for that I'd probably be willing to do something unsafe to prepare too honestly In general with those, it's not safe because you're sticking a lot of weight smack onto a tendon without regard for its axis of strength. That exercise blows out perfectly healthy legs with some regularity. It's still hard to load those muscles like that any other way, though you can just incorporate loading into compound movements that (performed correctly) are safer. But if you need a lot of leg strength, I mean... There you go, I guess. Dangerous but tons of folks do it for the results. Agreed fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jan 5, 2015 |
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Jan 5, 2015 00:48
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It is potentially a risky exercise. You're placing a lot of shearing force against connective tissue as the basis of the lift - what muscles get engaged is sort of beside the point after that. Sparring is plenty risky too, any kind of full contact combative is going to result in some degree of "normal" injuries, but adding specifically dangerous poo poo to your workout (especially when you have a related injury in your history) is a very high-risk thing to do, considering the benefits aren't totally unique to that lift. It's still absurd to try to second guess a fighter's program if they're not wanting to change it and they're winning fights. No kidding, sports science is often garbage. The athletic window doesn't really allow for repose.
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Jan 5, 2015 01:00
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Mean Bean Machine posted:agreed. he was getting hit way too much trying to get in, and in the clinch i felt jones was a bit more active. the first three were close tho Not-really-ironically, Jones' excellent wrestling was pretty instrumental in winning the early rounds. Without his clearly extraordinary takedown defense, he'd have been toast early, but he had Cormier defending the whole time minus that last spectacular slam. I wasn't the first to say it, but it is kind of hilarious in retrospect that Jon Jones' accurate observation is what apparently started this poo poo. He sure could take DC down, ayup.
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Jan 5, 2015 04:29
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Lid posted:Everyone mentions this but they forget that even more bizarrely and impressively Takase was dominantly wrestling Anderson too and then choked him out. Woah, Silva got hosed up in that fight. There's apparently a stylistic match for anyone, period. Every great gets theirs too, eventually, unless they get old first.
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Jan 5, 2015 07:21
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I don't think I agree. His opponents were outmatched at least as much as intimidated. They were all actively trying to blow his head off when he clocked them, they just didn't have what it took when the moments came (and god drat they rarely did).
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Jan 5, 2015 08:50
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The Cosby Mysteries posted:Chael didn't show respect and proceeded to get demolished by Silva on their second outing. I dunno, I don't think 'showing no respect' is the be all and end all people claim it to be when it comes down to taking down an all time great. A rare opportunity may appear by going down that road but it just seems insanely risky. I don't really think there's very much /good/ that can happen in a fight which you can then point to and say "that's because the fighter showed no respect!" that wouldn't more accurately be described in very normal fight terms. The "no respect" part isn't winning or losing the fight, any more than "heart" keeps someone from getting KO'd if they get caught hard. They're good words for the narratives but I don't think they turn out to mean much. Though Silva probably wishes he'd literally shown a little more respect in fight one. But if it can only gently caress you, what's it for?
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Jan 5, 2015 09:13
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Man, gently caress Chael Sonnen. Dude's a fraud and a cheater. I like his personality in promotion sometimes, too, but being able to work a mic doesn't stop you from being a scumbag. Watching Silva beat him silly in the second fight is fantastic in retrospect (and it was pretty awesome at the time, too).
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Jan 5, 2015 16:16
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Cormier actually said Jones hurt him several times countering while backing up, which was something he didn't think Jones could do and thus didn't gameplan for. Watching Chael choke at high levels is a highlight of his career, you are very correct there. I could watch that dude get hit in the face or trip over his own dumb feet or get choked in entertaining ways all day.
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Jan 5, 2015 18:38
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Fighting is so utterly individual and momentary that it's kind of absurd to buy into the GOAT or pound-for-pound best talk. Every great record in a competitive division is uniquely great.
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Jan 5, 2015 19:58
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Jack of Hearts posted:Same except my support became fuller and unconditionaler. Same except it just happened right now thanks to that post. Silva is as cool as they come. And he fights with his hands down, like a clown.
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Jan 5, 2015 21:19
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CommonShore posted:It was the Rashad title shot, and it wasn't a bad thing to do. That whole scenario was one of the most retarded and manufactured rivalries and pointless controversies in the UFC's history - I got injured and the guy I know who is undefeated and fights in the same division took the title shot and won! He's a traitor!. Because I don't really watch interviews with fighters, and that was the only "Fake Jon" thing I had seen, it took me a long time to really buy what an rear end in a top hat he is. Yeah, the truth is he's been really on target with most of his career decisions. That sycophantic, phony mewling bullshit that looks so gross is probably goddamned honeysuckle for a big sponsor. Hell, he has Reebok and they're separately sponsoring the UFC, he's getting it coming and going. Given how poorly the fighters are paid compared to many other high profile PPV events, whatever a guy has to do to make money in fighting is more or less ok as long as it's not PED abuse or whatever. Getting a DUI is pretty loving stupid and easy to avoid but I mean he's a guy, the only people who look at him and think "potential role model" are people who want his picture on their merch. He cracks skulls for a living and god drat is he good at it. Not the most exciting fighter lately, but the only exciting champion for a lot of continuous years is Anderson Silva, and the chances of another fighter like him coming on the scene in the same division is pretty god damned low for a bit I'd think. I swear, when I first saw Silva hotdogging in the ring and making his opponents look foolish, I both hoped and expected for him to get clocked damned near immediately. And he didn't. And he kept not getting clocked for loving yeeeears. I still can't believe my eyes looking at the crap he does - it seems impossible, I feel like I could train the rest of my life and never get anywhere close to that level of precision and coolheadedness under extreme duress. That's where Jones and other champions like those two (so GSP, I guess) are so impressive, imo - it's not some dumb Don Frye bullrush where the gameplan amounts to "grab the other dude by the head and don't stop unless you go to sleep," he's unbelievably clever in his fights. They're unbelievably clever. I watch for that more than the presser bullshit, though I like the manufactured rivalries too.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:57
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And for the low price of Rashad doesn't like him, he's the dominant champion of a great division in the best fight promotion around. I mean, it's scummy (if it's not just UFC kayfabe I guess), but he's scummy. How motherfuckers can dig Chael and hate Jones is beyond me, Jones is just an rear end in a top hat, not a crook...
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Jan 6, 2015 16:18
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Watching that many people be that outclassed is really something. It seemed then and still seems like that shouldn't have been the case, but whether he was just that good or he had the loving jedi mind trick on his opponents or whatever he was doing, I liked watching it. I think he's getting too old for this poo poo now, though.
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Jan 6, 2015 18:19
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Holy gently caress he got popped for coke
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Jan 7, 2015 00:08
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It's nuts that coke isn't actually a banned substance. Woah.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:14
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So does that T:E ratio being as low as it is mean he's probably juicing and got tested off-cycle when his test was suppressed? From an article on Overeem getting popped at 14:1, quote:Most men have a ratio of T to E of 1:1, which means normal men have equal amounts of T and E in their blood. There is some normal ethnic and time of day variation in the normal T/E ratio (as low as 0.7:1 and as high as 1.3:1). Anything legit possibly causing a world-beater athlete in amazing shape to have such a weird ratio? Agreed fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Jan 7, 2015 |
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Jan 7, 2015 17:35
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Has he just had all the fucks knocked out of him or did he start crazy as hell? Reminds me of the old UFC brawlers who showed up for blood regardless of training or condition or money or ... Fighters don't usually seem to love to fight like that, god drat!
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Jan 7, 2015 19:52
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Fat Twitter Man posted:I don't really dislike Jones that much but the weird Christian robot thing is kind of annoying. Just be the cocky hard-partying pro athlete you really are, dude, you've earned it. He doesn't come across all stiff and nervous when he's being a jerk, so he should do it more often. "Are you still there, pussy?" is the realest thing he ever said and it was great
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Jan 7, 2015 19:55
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He did call DC fat when he thought nobody was looking and then he beat him up until he cried a lot. If that's not laudible, nothing in MMA is. hm
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Jan 7, 2015 20:24
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TheCool69 posted:Jesus so they did not test Jones for cocaine on his second test on 12/18. That's a loving joke. Edit: was my initial reaction but I mean he wasn't supposed to be tested for it in the first place, if fuckers randomly drug tested me for things they aren't telling me about I'd be fairly uncomfortable with that notion. But it seems like they should be testing for coke when fighters get suspensions or shitcanned for weed. This is bullshit, haha.
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Jan 7, 2015 20:52
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How in the gently caress does he have such low test going into a fight? Is there any reasonable explanation, at all, besides "he's juicing?" And at this point does he still get the benefit of the doubt? (Yes he does but, you know, skeptically)Bluedeanie posted:Jon Jones is a goddamn medical mystery while Vitor passes three consecutive random tests, what a time to be a fight fan. Haha
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Jan 7, 2015 22:45
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david carmichael posted:well the thing is if that his test were to come up and be in line with his epi then his test would be at 2579 ng/dl, which would be the highest recorded test level in history Born alpha, clearly.
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Jan 7, 2015 22:56
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Triticum Guzzler posted:look, how were they supposed to know a lab claiming they can do urine tests for autism and mental illnesses was not good? Are you making GBS threads me? Haha this is fantastic, what a clusterfuck
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Jan 7, 2015 23:35
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So do they have a fund set aside for when their techs accidentally play with the piss instead of running it through the machines?
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Jan 7, 2015 23:39
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Not sure if I am skeptical enough of MMA journalism to take seriously the idea that here, on the SA forums, we discover a crazy secret hidden in plain sight that none of the media has touched on.
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Jan 8, 2015 01:49
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The UFC is gonzo as hell right now, this is great.
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Jan 8, 2015 02:56
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Cuckoo posted:Before Weidman 2: Anderson Silva has such tiny shrimpy legs, I can just imagine one of them getting snapped in half Weidman won the first fight out and out, Silva had that poo poo coming too and it was amazing. The second fight though, come on, anyone can break their leg if they get really, really unlucky. People slam much much much smaller, more delicate bones against hard poo poo on the body every minute of a fight. Silva got incredibly unlucky at probably the worst time for his legacy - and I am not saying Weidman didn't check the kick, because it's obvious he did. But you can't check in such a way as it will reliably break your opponents leg, dude got lucky. I'd like to see a rematch but the timing is stupid, and sensible timing would probably finally put Anderson past his athletic window, even if he is a freak at fighting.
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Jan 8, 2015 16:36
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Cuckoo posted:EDIT ^^^ beaten like Anderson Silva's tetherball leg You may be right. I don't know. But I feel like I'm pretty in tune with the average moron here, being one myself. I'd like to see the fight because I don't think Chris stole it but I feel like there's a great fight there that just didn't happen. THAT SAID, I don't want to see it right now, or in any realistic time frame. It's really short-sighted even just for straight up $$$ reasons to gently caress around with matchmaking like this. Related but separate thought - what does a promotion do with high-draw, very limited time fighters, though? If you don't let a guy like Silva fight -right now- it's over soon. If anyone hires Brock Lesnar in MMA, they better pump some fights out of him really quickly too. The whole draw is almost in the freakshow aspect of it. What would legitimately be a good fight for Silva, at this point? Is there a good fight for him at his age and given his history in MMA? A bad opponent is a joke, a great one is too much of a risk? Should he just retire, and if so, you want to tell him?
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Jan 8, 2015 17:03
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Keven. Just. Keven posted:The fight won't happen though because diaz will win and then fight and beat robbie lawler for the belt. This would be the perfect next step to make this a year to remember in the UFC
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Jan 8, 2015 17:16
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Lord Waffle Beard posted:Weidman checked his kick, it wasnt luck No poo poo. He definitely checked the kick. It wasn't luck that he checked the kick. It was luck that the result of doing so wasn't just a block, or a painful bruise, or even just a good opportunity to wail on Silva for second. Those things are pretty predictable when you successfully check a kick. The other dude's leg snapping in half is a major accident. Sure, it resulted in the total disabling of Silva and so he won the fight fair and square. It was also luckier than the most puncher's-chance knockout I've ever seen.
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Jan 8, 2015 17:40
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Lord Waffle Beard posted:Its not common, but it is common enough not to be luck. Silva threw a kick with bad technique and weidman checked it perfectly, happens in muay thai a lot more than mma fights but it happens in both. equating it to punchers chance is stupid I did use stronger language than I mean, there, but "and it could break the opponent's leg!" is way last on the list of good reasons people check a leg kick. It's an accident when somebody's leg goes all laffy-taffy. He didn't throw a leg-break, he checked a kick, and it turned out to be so damned checked that it broke. It's a great, legitimate outcome for one fighter and a horribly unlucky thing to have happen to you for the other. In that respect I feel like it's much luckier than a knockout, though I guess to have more than a bullshit feeling about that, I'd need to see some kind of figure for how many head punches end in a KO versus how many successfully checked leg kicks end up breaking a leg. I am not in the least trying to take the victory away, or call it into question. I am saying that if they fought a thousand rematches, I wouldn't expect many (any?) others to end in a leg break for either fighter. fatherdog posted:You put them in high-profile marquee matchups with big name fighters that A) do not currently hold a title and B) they have not fought before. I don't think the UFC is ever going to do the thing that makes them less money on the very next PPV, but yeah, I guess that'd be the simple answer.
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Jan 8, 2015 18:05
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I'm sure any of his techniques would suck to be on the receiving end of. He's a great fighter. He also probably never figured he'd win by leg-break, because nobody in their right mind does. That would be an insane game plan, but it's a great outcome. I don't really get the controversy, are you guys trying to argue with a more extreme viewpoint than mine by proxy? I don't go on Sherdog.
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Jan 8, 2015 18:12
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Bundt Cake posted:Its not really luck at all if you study tape and determine that a guy throws really hard leg kicks, then you practice timing and checking them, hurting multiple training partners, then when the fight comes you do it and the guy who really has insane power breaks his own leg doing it. Weidman used perfect technique to use Anderson's own power to destroy him. Its the most kick rear end martial arts thing ever Ok, you guys have convinced me that I at the very least need to look at his training footage. It's definitely not beyond a fighter of Weidman's caliber to spot an offensive tendency and exploit it. He's incredibly disciplined and a very precise striker, moving that around to intercept a telegraphed leg kick wouldn't be impossible. And, you know, I'm definitely not saying "he didn't even mean to check the kick!" which would be some olympic-level horseshit. He checked it just about perfectly, I'd say. And, hell, maybe the perfect outcome really is "it breaks the fuckin' leg, that's why you don't impact on your shin." I will take a look at the videos and see if that doesn't change my mind. If it does, I still think it's an absolutely insane gameplan, but not because it didn't work.
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Jan 8, 2015 19:15
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