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GenHavoc
Jul 19, 2006

Vive L'Empreur!
Vive La Surcouf!
Well if Surcouf isn't individually modeled, then I demand the entire French Submarine fleet!

Or, you know, the biggest squadron they have!

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Readingaccount
Jan 6, 2013

Law of the jungle

A White Guy posted:

Since someone called the Bismarck, I'm calling the HMS Hood. Hopefully that pesky British air cover can sink the Bismarck before she sinks the Hood.

Don't worry. The Ark Royal will take care of it!
Yessire, there won't be any depredations in the North Sea or wherever this majestic ship is sent as long as I remain on the bridge. I certainly won't get sunk earlier than historical...!

Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jan 15, 2015

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

GenHavoc posted:

Well if Surcouf isn't individually modeled, then I demand the entire French Submarine fleet!

Or, you know, the biggest squadron they have!

well, the strongest sub unit they have, that's already been built, is probably this unit here based from Marseilles:


/unless you want some sort of aircraft unit or land unit.....

Readingaccount posted:

I certainly won't get sunk earlier than historical...!

that's what they ALL say......

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Jan 15, 2015

Readingaccount
Jan 6, 2013

Law of the jungle
Where ya planning to send me? I don't mind any place really, as long as my air wings get to see action (ship itself too if necessary).

Huh, whaddaya know...

wikipedia posted:

The French fleet was widely dispersed. Some vessels were in port in France; others had escaped from France to British controlled ports, mainly in Britain itself or Alexandria in Egypt. At the first stage of Operation Catapult, the ships in the British ports of Plymouth and Portsmouth were simply boarded on the night of 3 July 1940. The then largest submarine in the world, the Surcouf, which had sought refuge in Portsmouth in June 1940 following the German invasion of France, resisted the British operation. In capturing the submarine, two British officers and one French sailor were killed. Other ships were the two obsolete battleships Paris and Courbet, the destroyers Triomphant and the Léopard, eight torpedo boats, five submarines (the Minerve, Junon) and a number of other ships of lesser importance.

Sordid history for the largest submarine of the time. Was looking up Free French Naval forces, but it wasn't very informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_French_Naval_Forces
This List of Ships of the Free French Naval Forces was better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_Free_French_Naval_Forces
There's two battleships, the Paris and the Courbet. They're kind of obsolete though.

Readingaccount fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Jan 15, 2015

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Readingaccount posted:

Where ya planning to send me? I don't mind any place really, as long as my air wings get to see action (ship itself too if necessary).

Huh, whaddaya know...


Sordid history for the largest submarine of the time. Was looking up Free French Naval forces, but it wasn't very informative: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_French_Naval_Forces
This List of Ships of the Free French Naval Forces was better was better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_of_the_Free_French_Naval_Forces
There's two battleships, the Paris and the Courbet. They're kind of obsolete though.

if the Surcouf was commissioned in 1934, that chit is probably representing the squadron it is in.

E:\/ then that probably is her squad.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 15, 2015

AtomikKrab
Jul 17, 2010

Keep on GOP rolling rolling rolling rolling.

will_colorado posted:

if the Surcouf was commissioned in 1934, that chit is probably representing the squadron it is in.

She was commissioned in 1934!

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Hewlo Furriend
Does the game have the 2nd Polish Corps (Anders' Army)? I want that.

brb on fire
May 12, 2013
So hold on, I'm very slightly confused about shipbuilding. You mention it takes a few years for ships to be built, but they also apparently have a build point cost and build time according to the counter? How does this work? My apologies if I'm just being a blind moron who missed something, but I'm curious to know what this means.

Also, does this mean you can invest build points into bringing forward the historical launch date?

Arrion
Aug 2, 2010
Basically you have to build ships twice. The first phase represents the hull and the second fitting out. When you first start building a ship, you put it on the production track face down, and when that's done it goes into a "build pool" box. The second time, it goes on the track face up, and arrives on the map when completed. The ship counters show two build costs, one for each phase. And the time listed is the time for each phase. So a battleship that takes 6 turns for each phase will take two full years to build, start to finish.

You can accelerate building units from later years if you run out of units to build from the current date by paying extra build points. I don't remember the details on this, so will will have to answer that. From what I remember, this is common when playing just the base game with "only" 1200 counters, but when you add in a bunch of expansions there's usually something better to build.

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

brb on fire posted:

So hold on, I'm very slightly confused about shipbuilding. You mention it takes a few years for ships to be built, but they also apparently have a build point cost and build time according to the counter? How does this work? My apologies if I'm just being a blind moron who missed something, but I'm curious to know what this means.

Also, does this mean you can invest build points into bringing forward the historical launch date?

Arrion posted:

Basically you have to build ships twice. The first phase represents the hull and the second fitting out. When you first start building a ship, you put it on the production track face down, and when that's done it goes into a "build pool" box. The second time, it goes on the track face up, and arrives on the map when completed. The ship counters show two build costs, one for each phase. And the time listed is the time for each phase. So a battleship that takes 6 turns for each phase will take two full years to build, start to finish.

You can accelerate building units from later years if you run out of units to build from the current date by paying extra build points. I don't remember the details on this, so will will have to answer that. From what I remember, this is common when playing just the base game with "only" 1200 counters, but when you add in a bunch of expansions there's usually something better to build.

As Arrion mentioned, each naval unit, excluding convoy or oil tanker points, goes through the production charts twice. Each unit has the year listed it goes into a nation's force pool to be built. There is not a specific exact date, just year. Each turn is two months of time. The most number of turns that a naval unit takes for half to be completed, is 6. That would take two years for both sections, in that case, to be completed. (6 two month turns twice)

Once the first half of the unit is completed, it will go into the construction pool area for that specific port. During the production phases of a turn you can then build the second half of the unit.

For any unit on the production charts, you can spend an additional build point during any turn's production to move it forward that number of turns to be on the map that many turns earlier. If a unit takes 5 turns and costs 3 build points, if you spend 4 points, it would only take 4 turns.

If you run out of a type of unit to build, example no infantry corps sized units, you can then select from the next years units of that type. There is an additional cost: you would need to pay the normal cost of the unit, plus an additional cost is the number of turns away from the Jan/Feb turn of the year it would normally be in the force pool. (If you are in the Sept/Oct turn, it would cost 2 additional)

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jan 16, 2015

Readingaccount
Jan 6, 2013

Law of the jungle
Am I understanding it correctly that one must build ships consecutively or lose them?

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Readingaccount posted:

Am I understanding it correctly that one must build ships consecutively or lose them?

No, once first half is completed, the half-completed units go into a construction pool at the port they are in. The just wait there indefinitely until their second half starts getting built. The two halves of the unit cannot be built simultaneously.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 15, 2015

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Tevery Best posted:

Does the game have the 2nd Polish Corps (Anders' Army)? I want that.

To represent the Polish II Corps in-exile forces, the British can build the Polish mechanized infantry corps and Polish motorized infantry corps starting in 1941 as a British unit. Do you want the mechanized or motorized unit?

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT
What's the best way to drag minors into the conflict other than DOWing them? I'm sure an axis player would want maximum diversion and :psyboom: to occur in South America/Africa

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Top Hats Monthly posted:

What's the best way to drag minors into the conflict other than DOWing them? I'm sure an axis player would want maximum diversion and :psyboom: to occur in South America/Africa

The only way in South America for that is to have the one major power declare war on them first. In WiF, the cost/benefit to get the resources from Chile/Argentina is worth it. If an allied country brings four regular resources from SA to their home countries and process them, that is 6 production points. It may happen.

When France surrenders, Japan can claim Indo-China and Madagascar from Vichy France.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Jan 16, 2015

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

will_colorado posted:

When France surrenders, Japan can claim Indo-China and Madagascar from Vichy France.

Operation Ironclad, here we come! :getin:

Humbug Scoolbus
Apr 25, 2008

The scarlet letter was her passport into regions where other women dared not tread. Shame, Despair, Solitude! These had been her teachers, stern and wild ones, and they had made her strong, but taught her much amiss.
Clapping Larry
I'd like either the Ranger Battalions (Preferred) or the 1st Special Service Force. I know they won't show up till '42 but I'm optimistic.

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Humbug Scoolbus posted:

I'd like either the Ranger Battalions (Preferred) or the 1st Special Service Force. I know they won't show up till '42 but I'm optimistic.
the Rangers unit here is available in 1943. It is a special division that has the benefits of a marine and a mountain division. It can also trace supply through enemy zones of control, but not through zones where enemy units are at.


(I'm writing the supply, terrain, and zone of control explanations right now)

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT
My ebuddy who cannot post right now is declaring the 1st Canadian Army if possible (or a Dieppe raid unit)

Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 06:24 on Jan 16, 2015

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Top Hats Monthly posted:

My ebuddy who cannot post right now is declaring the 1st Canadian Army if possible (or a Dieppe raid unit)

I have: 1 Canadian, a corps sized motorized unit. I think that's the same one.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jan 16, 2015

Comstar
Apr 20, 2007

Are you happy now?
Can I claim the Australian Second Australian Imperial Force. If that's too big, the 6th, 7th or 9th Australian Division.

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Terrain, movement costs, and how to keep a unit in supply

Terrain
Only the Western and Eastern Europe maps use the Europe terrain costs. All other maps, including Scandinavia, Africa, and North/South America, Pacific, and Asia use the other maps scale. There are no off-map hexes since we are using all the maps. This info shows the movement costs and effects in clear weather. (Rain, snow, storm, and blizzard in the weather zone can affect the movement cost. I will go over in the weather effects in a later post)

Leg units are all non-motorized and non-mechanized HQ, infantry, militia, territorial, and artillery units. Mot are all others, including all motorized artillery, motorized infantry, mechanized infantry, armor units, and Armored HQ units. If a land unit does not have enough movement points to move into a hex, it must stop in the existing hex, if it does not stop and moves into the next hex, it must flip face down and become disorganized. Units that are flipped face down cannot be moved.

First are the individual types of hexes and movement costs:


Here is a list of anything that on a hex side that will effect terrain costs when moving across the hex side:


This shows the weather area boundary, and the effects of any cities or ports on terrain movement.


Here are the terrain effects notes that are in the far right column, just reference the number here with the number listed on the terrain type.

(Ignore option 11 for our game here)

For the combat effects columns, there are two 2d10 combat attack tables to choose from: assault table, and blitz table:


If the note says defender’s choice, the defender chooses the type of combat table to use (assault or blitz), If attacker, the attacker will choose. If it says either’s choice, the side with the largest total combat value of mechanized or armor chooses the table.

Land combat consists of the attacker calculating the combat value of their units against the defender and getting a die roll modifier. Adjust the modifier up or down for terrain/cities/weather, and for all the options shown on the table. Then rolling the 2d10’s and getting a modified number based on all that on either the blitz or assault tables as shown. The assault table usually is bloodier, but the blitz table allows an attacker to breakthrough some types of hexes. I’ll go over full land combat later.

Supply

You would need to check supply before a unit moves. Units at sea are always in supply.

A land unit that is not in supply: cannot attack, if it moves it must become disorganized and flip face down, and if a face down unit is attacked, it defends with a value of 1, if it is white print, that value is 3.

An air unit that is not in supply can only perform a rebase mission. The unit will then be flipped face down.

A naval unit that starts in a port and is not in supply has its movement value reduced by 1, and will flip face down wherever it moves to, even at sea.

Tracing Supply
Supply must always be traced back to a primary supply source.

A primary supply source for a unit is:
A city in the unit’s unconquered home country
For Commonwealth units, any friendly city in another Commonwealth country
Any friendly city of a major power that unit cooperates with

Cities in China controlled by the Communist Chinese cannot be a primary source for Nationalist Units and vice-versa.

If a unit cannot trace to a primary supply source, it can trace to a secondary source.
Secondary sources are:
An HQ the unit cooperates with
The capital city of a minor country controlled by the unit’s major power
The capital city of a minor or major country that has been conquered by that unit’s major power

A secondary source can trace to any number of additional secondary source as long as the supply path ends up at a major supply source.

The maximum number of hexes a supply path can be is 4 European Hexes. If you trace part of the supply path along a rail line, it is a rail supply path. Any part of a supply path along a rail line does not count towards the 4 hex limits. Any damaged rail line does not affect supply, only rail movement. A supply path can be traced overseas through any number of sea zones, as long as the sea zones have at least 1 convoy, 1 tanker, or 1 transport in the sea zones the path goes through. The supply path from a port across sea zones to another port counts as 1 supply path hex, even on the non-Europe maps. Weather can also affect the maximum number hexes a supply path can be.

Zones of Control
Any corps size unit exerts a zone of control in the surrounding hexes, except across straits, sea zones, or alpine hex sides. Division sized units only exert a zone of control in their own hex. Aircraft and naval units do not exert zones of control. Moving to an enemy zone of control costs 1 additional movement point. A land unit cannot move through an enemy zone of control. Supply cannot be traced through enemy zones of control. Partisan units do not exert zones of control.

Let’s look at an example here:


In this example here all of the German units are in supply, as long as the weather is clear. The German 7-4 infantry can trace supply via rail either to Warsaw as a secondary supply source, then by rail back to Germany, or on a primary path along the rail directly back to Germany. (Supply paths traced along rail lines do not count toward the 4 hex limits) Von Bock’s HQ unit can do the same. The German 7-3 infantry is also in supply (if the weather is clear) as it only 3 hexes away from the rail line. If the USSR 6-6 unit was one hex southwest in hex 1832, then the German 7-3 will be out of supply. If there is any type of enemy, enemy zone of control, or partisan land unit behind that rail line, it cuts the supply to the forward units. If the 4-3 USSR infantry was two hexes further south, its zone of control would cover hexes 2131 and 2031 and block supply for both forward units.

Let’s look at another example:


The maximum number of hexes a supply path in clear weather is 4 hexes on the Europe scale. In this example, for Japan to get supply to their units, it would go from the Hiroshima port, via the convoy in the Sea of Japan, and to the port in Pusan as 1 hex, since supply path from a port across any number of sea zones to another port is only 1. It would then follow the rail lines up the Korean peninsula to the remaining units. But let’s say there were no rail lines traveling north from Mukden. The Japan HQ 6-2-3 unit have to cover additional 2 supply path hexes, since it is a clear hex on a non-Europe map, for 3 total, to Mukden, then back to Japan. If there were no rail lines in that situation, and the HQ were one more hex further north, the HQ unit could still trace supply to a secondary supply source for one of the capitals in Korea, and then on a primary supply path to a city in Japan. If the convoys were not in the Sea Of Japan, the units could not trace to a primary supply source in their home country and would all be out of supply until at least 1 convoy, 1 tanker, or 1 transport was in the sea zone.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 09:59 on Jan 16, 2015

inscrutable horse
May 20, 2010

Parsing sage, rotating time



I think it's amazing that the thread is 3 pages in, has a ton of updates, and yet the game hasn't even started yet :eyepop: This. This is where men are turned into grogs!

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Comstar posted:

Can I claim the Australian Second Australian Imperial Force. If that's too big, the 6th, 7th or 9th Australian Division.

You got them



inscrutable horse posted:

I think it's amazing that the thread is 3 pages in, has a ton of updates, and yet the game hasn't even started yet :eyepop: This. This is where men are turned into grogs!
:getin:

Top Hats Monthly
Jun 22, 2011


People are people so why should it be, that you and I should get along so awfully blink blink recall STOP IT YOU POSH LITTLE SHIT
I want some hot P-80/FH Phantom on Zero action

TildeATH
Oct 21, 2010

by Lowtax
Oh, right, I want Patton.

Ghost of Mussolini
Jun 26, 2011
Is the Folgore (paratrooper) division in? Should pop up in 1941. I'd like to claim that if possible.

Saint Celestine
Dec 17, 2008

Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.

- Saint Sabbat, Lessons
Grimey Drawer
Ill take the DAK.

Tevery Best
Oct 11, 2013

Hewlo Furriend

will_colorado posted:

To represent the Polish II Corps in-exile forces, the British can build the Polish mechanized infantry corps and Polish motorized infantry corps starting in 1941 as a British unit. Do you want the mechanized or motorized unit?

Are they both marked as the 2nd Polish corps? That's odd. If so, I'll take the mech unit.

Obfuscation
Jan 1, 2008
Good luck to you, I know you believe in hell
I always heard that WiF has excessive amounts of chrome but seeing all those different units is still quite impressive. Night fighters, holy poo poo. Good luck with the LP.

Also I like to be on the winning side, so I would like to claim the earliest available soviet guards tank army.

oystertoadfish
Jun 17, 2003

i love this thread

i'd like a unit that should be doing stuff for a long time, maybe a japanese one. i can wait, i want one of the hipster units youve probably never heard of

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

oystertoadfish posted:

i love this thread

i'd like a unit that should be doing stuff for a long time, maybe a japanese one. i can wait, i want one of the hipster units youve probably never heard of

Sounds like someone wants some Japanese Paratroopers :getin:

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Top Hats Monthly posted:

I want some hot P-80/FH Phantom on Zero action
How about some eventual Shooting Star on Orange Blossom hot action instead?


TildeATH posted:

Oh, right, I want Patton.
Just watch out for those ox carts


Ghost of Mussolini posted:

Is the Folgore (paratrooper) division in? Should pop up in 1941. I'd like to claim that if possible.
1940


Saint Celestine posted:

Ill take the DAK.
Hopefully the Germans "convince" the Italians to not do something stupid like wander around an empty desert.


Tevery Best posted:

Are they both marked as the 2nd Polish corps? That's odd. If so, I'll take the mech unit.
No, the Polish units just have names of cities/regions of Poland on them.



Obfuscation posted:

I always heard that WiF has excessive amounts of chrome but seeing all those different units is still quite impressive. Night fighters, holy poo poo. Good luck with the LP.

Also I like to be on the winning side, so I would like to claim the earliest available soviet guards tank army.
Thanks. This is the earliest Soviet GD tank unit available.



oystertoadfish posted:

i love this thread

i'd like a unit that should be doing stuff for a long time, maybe a japanese one. i can wait, i want one of the hipster units youve probably never heard of

Thanks!

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Sounds like someone wants some Japanese Paratroopers :getin:

How about the 2nd special naval landing forces? They should see plenty of action right from the start.

will_colorado fucked around with this message at 04:45 on Jan 17, 2015

TildeATH
Oct 21, 2010

by Lowtax

1944?! What did I do, slap a whole regiment of cowards?

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

TildeATH posted:

1944?! What did I do, slap a whole regiment of cowards?

He was commander of the US II Corps until he slapped those guys. He was put in charge of the entire US 3rd Army in 1944 after Normandy.

Jobbo_Fett
Mar 7, 2014

Slava Ukrayini

Clapping Larry

will_colorado posted:

How about some eventual Shooting Star on Orange Blossom hot action instead?



Does the game have the A7M Reppu?

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Jobbo_Fett posted:

Does the game have the A7M Reppu?

I can only find up to the A6M8 so far. I haven't seen anything later in that line, than that model.

NormalCat
Mar 25, 2006
What French land units are available? I'll take their 4th armoured, or 5th army.

will_colorado
Jun 30, 2007

Pignog posted:

What French land units are available? I'll take their 4th armoured, or 5th army.

at the start, on the map, there are the HQ's for Georges and for Billotte, Infantry Corps: V, VIII, IX, XLI, XXIV, XVIII cavalry corps, XIII, XLII, 1st Infantry Division, Alpine Mtn Corps

here's the French 4th Armored division for you

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Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010
When do you start the game proper?

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