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Modus Operandi posted:Completely forgot about Jackie Brown. It's definitely up there but still more Tarantino than Leonard. I agree Out of Sight got the tone right as well. It's unfortunate Leonard couldn't give us at least another decade of writing. The weird thing about Jackie Brown is how criminally unmentioned it is. I agree Tarantino put more of his influence into it than Leonard's, but I had never actually known about the film until I set out to rewatch all of Tarantino's movies and found one I actually never saw to begin with. It's probably one of Tarantino's best, and Leonard himself said it was his favorite adaptation of his work up to that point. Hell, it's a lot like Justified in that way: incredible, but not popular.
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Apr 22, 2015 03:54
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:The weird thing about Jackie Brown is how criminally unmentioned it is. I agree Tarantino put more of his influence into it than Leonard's, but I had never actually known about the film until I set out to rewatch all of Tarantino's movies and found one I actually never saw to begin with. It's probably one of Tarantino's best, and Leonard himself said it was his favorite adaptation of his work up to that point. I went to see Jackie a Brown in the theater expecting a Tarantino movie, was disappointed but enjoyed it. It wasn't until later that I learned it was a Leonard story. Will still stop and watch it whenever I catch it on TV.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:11
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tomapot posted:I went to see Jackie a Brown in the theater expecting a Tarantino movie, was disappointed but enjoyed it. It wasn't until later that I learned it was a Leonard story. Will still stop and watch it whenever I catch it on TV. It definitely has a different feel than a lot of Tarantino's stuff; you can see both him and Leonard at work if you watch it with those things in mind. It's especially interesting to watch now, as his love for violence and gore has only increased over the years. Been a bit since I watched it, but I recall Jackie Brown being incredibly tame for Tarantino, really all a story about subterfuge.
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Apr 22, 2015 04:21
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Jackie Brown is my favorite Tarantino movie, and that's in no small part due to Leonard. Tiny Lister as Cherry's partner is the best.
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Apr 22, 2015 08:02
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Seemed appropriate to put this here. https://www.yahoo.com/food/workers-busted-for-allegedly-stealing-barrels-of-117006802221.html
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Apr 22, 2015 14:14
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:The weird thing about Jackie Brown is how criminally unmentioned it is. It came right at the height of Tarantino's mainstream breakout so I think people were expecting Pulp Fiction part 2 in tone with the same stylized quirkiness. Instead Jackie Brown was this smart and slow burn of a caper film. I remember people grumbling a little about that when it came out but it's still a great film of course.
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Apr 22, 2015 15:47
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Catching up and the DVR recording was apparently screwed by a storm. It goes from Raylan getting arrested to Art handing him keys to a truck. Then jumps again to Boyd cleaning out the barn. Did I miss anything important? I expected some showdown scene where the uppity DA gets his comeuppance.
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Apr 23, 2015 23:35
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I don't think the DA was even in the finale.
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Apr 23, 2015 23:37
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I think Raylan getting Boyd in cuffs ends the idiot DA's plot line
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Apr 24, 2015 00:06
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mewse posted:I think Raylan getting Boyd in cuffs ends the idiot DA's plot line Nah, he accused Raylan of plotting with Ava to double-cross Boyd and the Marshalls. Before that it was the Raylan and Boyd theory. Basically he hated Rayla, not without good reason.
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Apr 24, 2015 00:52
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I had to go to episode summaries to refresh my memory. In the third to last episode, Ava had just shot Boyd and then took off with the money. Vasquez said "Raylan likes shooting people but he didn't shoot Boyd or Ava? He's probably banging Ava and they are going to disappear with the money." Art asks Raylan to come back in but then gives him that 48hr deadline. In the second to last episode, the marshalls have issued a bulletin for any law enforcement to contact them if they come across Raylan, and Vasquez goes nuclear and trashes random marshal's desk (one of Tim's finest scenes). Vasquez calls in and has a BOLO issued for Raylan. That reminds me, I don't know what a BOLO is: quote:BOLO or B.O.L.O., an acronym used by law enforcement, standing for "Be on the lookout", often used as “bolo alert”; an all-points bulletin I guess it's the cool guy word for APB. Anyway the BOLO results in Raylan's arrest when he brings Bob to the hospital. In the final episode, Art gets Raylan out of custody and Raylan busts Boyd. Boyd was the reason Ava was a CI so getting Boyd in cuffs ends the whole thing. I guess Vasquez could have charged Raylan with aiding and abetting Ava in her escape from Boyd, but there wouldn't be any proof, and he didn't, so there wasn't any reason to bring Vasquez back except to have him eat poo poo from Raylan. Which might have been funny but they had a lot of ground to cover in the finale.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:42
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BOLO is lower priority. APB means "FIND THIS FUCKER AND ARREST HIS rear end RIGHT NOW." BOLO is more like "Hey, if you see a guy who looks like this maybe put the doughnut down and see if it's him."
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Apr 24, 2015 02:45
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Vasquez is actually not an idiot or an rear end in a top hat. He's trying to do his job, and Raylan ironically has no respect for the law or legal preceedings and is constantly loving up what the DA is trying to do and then Art is covering for him. This is one of the most obnoxious professional situations to be in, where every time someone says "why did this gently caress up" you can point right to the person that screwed it all up, but they're everyone's favorite so you can't do anything. Art know's Raylan well enough to know that's he's a good person and that he's right, which is why Art lets him go at the end. But anyone who isn't BFFs with Raylan has every reason to see that whole Marshall's office as corrupt. Raylan was the main force getting Ava to be a CI, and she never gave them anything, only dealt with Raylan, and then she stole all the money.
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Apr 24, 2015 02:48
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Actually I think Vasquez is an rear end in a top hat, and he's short
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Apr 24, 2015 02:51
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mewse posted:Actually I think Vasquez is an rear end in a top hat, and he's short Eh, I can't think of any times was actually an rear end in a top hat. He represents the outsider perspective. He's not a good-ol' boy. He doesn't give two fucks that Boyd dug coal with Raylan, because Boyd is a thieving murderer. He doesn't care if Ava rots in prison because she is a murder who has also been involved in a long line of criminal activities. Raylan doesn't follow protocol ever, which is only endearing if you don't have to deal with it on a professional level. On second thought, are you quoting Tim? Cause I'm hearing it in his voice now...
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Apr 24, 2015 02:59
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Snak posted:On second thought, are you quoting Tim? Only spiritually
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Apr 24, 2015 04:24
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wormil posted:Catching up and the DVR recording was apparently screwed by a storm. It goes from Raylan getting arrested to Art handing him keys to a truck. Then jumps again to Boyd cleaning out the barn. Did I miss anything important? I expected some showdown scene where the uppity DA gets his comeuppance. Watching Tim's reaction to his little tantrum in the Marshals office was enough of a comeuppance for me.
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Apr 24, 2015 17:27
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Cat Army
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a spinoff where rachel's sister is abducted (by aliens!) and she and tim (ever skeptical) travel the country investigating paranormal events under the direction of art (newly transferred to the dc office) in an attempt to uncover the shadowy conspiracy behind the abduction. it could be called 'the truth is out there' maybe
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Apr 24, 2015 19:16
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Rachel's sister is dead, Lorenz Tate killed her
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Apr 24, 2015 20:03
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Pron on VHS posted:Rachel's sister is dead, Lorenz Tate killed her Or did he? Could he just be a patsy for the secret marshal conspiracy?
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Apr 24, 2015 20:06
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The Bourbon Drinking Man
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Apr 24, 2015 22:43
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Hunterhr posted:The Bourbon Drinking Man Oh cool, I didn't know my Uncle Mikey was getting this own series.
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Apr 25, 2015 07:10
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Rhyno posted:Oh cool, I didn't know my Uncle Mikey was getting this own series. He doesn't like being called that.
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Apr 25, 2015 22:38
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TheAngryDrunk posted:He doesn't like being called that. He hates everything.
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Apr 25, 2015 23:42
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Solice Kirsk posted:He hates everything. He likes tennis. And classical music. He's a man of many layers.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:13
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Solice Kirsk posted:He's aplexed by everything.
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Apr 26, 2015 01:16
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Solice Kirsk posted:He hates everything. Except Life.
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Apr 26, 2015 02:33
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wormil posted:Except Life. There we go!
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Apr 26, 2015 04:35
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Pro wrestler Ron Wright passed away last week, and he worked Tennessee and Kentucky as a top bad guy, and was such a great heel that in the 70s he had his airplane blown up with dynamite. In Harlan, Kentucky. 
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Apr 26, 2015 17:26
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whatsabattle posted:Pro wrestler Ron Wright passed away last week, and he worked Tennessee and Kentucky as a top bad guy, and was such a great heel that in the 70s he had his airplane blown up with dynamite. He's from my home town. He also wrestled a bear at some point in the 60's.
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Apr 28, 2015 00:47
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whatsabattle posted:Pro wrestler Ron Wright passed away last week, and he worked Tennessee and Kentucky as a top bad guy, and was such a great heel that in the 70s he had his airplane blown up with dynamite.
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Apr 28, 2015 09:58
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:It definitely has a different feel than a lot of Tarantino's stuff; you can see both him and Leonard at work if you watch it with those things in mind. It's especially interesting to watch now, as his love for violence and gore has only increased over the years. Been a bit since I watched it, but I recall Jackie Brown being incredibly tame for Tarantino, really all a story about subterfuge. It also shows Tarantino's love of character. Max and Jackie are great, and Forster/Greer have such chemistry together that it's just a joy to watch these people interact. It's largely the same thing with Justified and a lot of Leonard's work.
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Apr 28, 2015 12:54
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empty baggie posted:He's from my home town. He also wrestled a bear at some point in the 60's. How did the bear not just eviscerate him? Did they de-claw it or something? Anyways, I watched the pilot last night to start a re-watch of the entire series and comparing Eva then to what Eva was in the last few seasons is like night and day. Being with Boyd really wore her down and changed her. She's a fun, flirty, happy person in the pilot, even just after killing her husband and going through lots of legal proceedings with all the associated tedium and anxiety that'd generate. All I could remember of Eva prior to that is her being very serious and kind of angsty or indecisive. I think that's part of why I didn't enjoy the final season as much as I'd have liked to, because I just couldn't give a poo poo about Eva's struggle. She was a very passive player in the final season, constantly pulled between Raylan and Boyd, swearing her allegiance to one or the other every episode but never actually choosing or committing to either side before finally running off with the money. Even then, she was mostly letting other people dictate what she was going to do, whether it be getting Zachariah or Grubes helping her get over the mountain or Markham using her. Seeing her torn constantly between two sides who are both using her and could put her in jail or kill her very easily would make for great tension if I cared about her I suppose, but I had stopped doing so at some point over the show's run and just wasn't invested in it at all in the end. I think my biggest problem with the finale was Boyd though, and Raylan staying behind to finally deal with him because I never really got the feeling that Raylan was all that bothered about Boyd. He was just another poo poo-kicker in poo poo-kicker central, as I believe Raylan may have once even put it. For all that Boyd did, he never actually achieved a huge amount of success. He rarely ever hand more than a handful of people working for him and I don't think he ever actually made a big win that'd net him any real attention. Raylan's attitude for most of the show appeared to be indifference to me, rather than the white whale "I have to bring him in at all costs" attitude others have referred to over the thread. When they came in contact the last few seasons it was mostly due to circumstance, rather than Raylan hunting him down from what I can recall. I'd have been perfectly okay with Raylan walking away without ever dealing with Boyd, at least until the last few episodes. Boyd shooting Carl and that guy whose car he stole kind of soured me on Boyd though since neither were remotely necessary and appeared to be just him snapping. I know it was meant to remind us that he's not a good person at the end of the day, but to me it pushed him over the line from enjoyable if amoral outlaw to petty murderer and meant I didn't actually care what happened. Boyd was best to me in the first two seasons, and even then it felt like his fall back in to old ways in season two happened too fast and simple. He had some cool moments after that, like his outlaw speech to the nobs or the lighter bomb, but I guess I was just slowly losing interest in the character. tsob fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Apr 28, 2015 |
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Apr 28, 2015 13:46
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tsob posted:I think that's part of why I didn't enjoy the final season as much as I'd have liked to, because I just couldn't give a poo poo about Eva's struggle. She was a very passive player in the final season, constantly pulled between Raylan and Boyd, swearing her allegiance to one or the other every episode but never actually choosing or committing to either side before finally running off with the money. Even then, she was mostly letting other people dictate what she was going to do, whether it be getting Zachariah or Grubes helping her get over the mountain or Markham using her. Seeing her torn constantly between two sides who are both using her and could put her in jail or kill her very easily would make for great tension if I cared about her I suppose, but I had stopped doing so at some point over the show's run and just wasn't invested in it at all in the end. Ava's plot line was way worse in S5. It was like a poor copy of Oz with anything compelling stripped out of it. In S6 the actress did a great job of portraying the tension of keeping her secrets from Boyd. quote:Boyd shooting Carl and that guy whose car he stole kind of soured me on Boyd though since neither were remotely necessary and appeared to be just him snapping. I know it was meant to remind us that he's not a good person at the end of the day, but to me it pushed him over the line from enjoyable if amoral outlaw to petty murderer and meant I didn't actually care what happened. I read that Walton Goggins was unhappy with the murder of Shea Whigham's character as well, but Graham Yost felt the audience needed to be reminded that Boyd was still a criminal. He wasn't a good guy in bad circumstances, he was someone Raylan had to bring in.
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Apr 28, 2015 13:56
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mewse posted:Ava's plot line was way worse in S5. It was like a poor copy of Oz with anything compelling stripped out of it. In S6 the actress did a great job of portraying the tension of keeping her secrets from Boyd. Yeah, but I was surprised they worked to so hard to remind us he was a villain, having him murder two people in cold blood, only for him to have a pretty happy ending. I thought they were doing that so that we wouldn't feel bad when he died. All things considered, I think Boyde got off easy.
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Apr 28, 2015 15:24
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Snak posted:Yeah, but I was surprised they worked to so hard to remind us he was a villain, having him murder two people in cold blood, only for him to have a pretty happy ending. I thought they were doing that so that we wouldn't feel bad when he died. All things considered, I think Boyde got off easy. I'm kinda glad all the main characters survived. Game of Thrones and others seem to have started a trend where it's super cool and rad to kill off main characters unexpectedly.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:00
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mewse posted:I'm kinda glad all the main characters survived. Game of Thrones and others seem to have started a trend where it's super cool and rad to kill off main characters unexpectedly. I don't disagree, but is it really "unexpected" when it's the final season, and "You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive" is basically the show's themesong? And Raylan is on "one last case" before he retires to spend more time with his daughter? edit: and Boyde was originally going to die in the first episode of season one? I figured Raylan would have finished what he started.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:25
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Snak posted:edit: and Boyde was originally going to die in the first episode of season one? I figured Raylan would have finished what he started. Yes, in the short story Fire In the Hole, Raylan kills Boyd. However, in the subsequent novel, Raylan, Elmore Leonard resurrected him. Which just goes to show how good Goggins was as Boyd.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:33
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Snak posted:I don't disagree, but is it really "unexpected" when it's the final season, and "You'll Never Leave Harlan Alive" is basically the show's themesong? And Raylan is on "one last case" before he retires to spend more time with his daughter? Yea, you beat me to it, but it's not at all unexpected for the career criminal who's made a habit of pissing off the authorities to die in the series finale of a show where the main villain dies every single season.Especially not when the entire season has been about things spinning further out of control for him. Just because Game of Thrones has made it cool to kill of characters doesn't mean it's always a bad thing to kill a given character. And while I wouldn't say death was the only way to finish Boyd's story, given what had happened in season 6 it kind of feels warranted, at least on his part. Doing so would mess with Raylan's finale though, given they wanted to have someone refuse to pull on him and Boone was certainly never gonna be that guy. Personally I'd have preferred Tim or Rachel took Boyd down, Raylan had had his showdown with Boone and Markham had been the one to refuse to draw on him or something. It just doesn't feel like Boyd really got his comeuppance to me I suppose given what he did in the last few episodes. Eva left him, forever, but he barely even seemed bothered by it, and more just annoyed that he wouldn't get to take her down. He did love her, but he appeared to be getting over that love even before she shot him, and to just desire revenge going forward instead of really suffering heartbreak from it or anything. Then the one shot you get of him in jail he's having a good ol' time of it. I know it's punishment regardless, but it just doesn't seem to really fit given the way it's all shown.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:35
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I think if we look at Yost's mantra of What Would Elmore Do, the ending is not about Boyd the Outlaw getting away with his life, it's about Rylan not killing Boyd and bringing him in alive because, in the end, Raylan is a Good Guy.
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Apr 28, 2015 16:44
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