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Valatar
Sep 26, 2011

A remarkable example of a pathetic species.


Lipstick Apathy

I have a Springfield XDM and a Beretta Neos and am unsatisfied with cleaning them. I get the slide and barrel off, throw a bore snake down the barrel, and get a handful of patches dirty by sticking them on a brush and scrubbing around the inside surfaces, but I can't reach lots of nooks and crannies around the trigger assemblies and worry that I'm half assing it. And that one day at the range I'll pull the trigger and the rusted out innards will just fall out the mag well. Is there anything more that I should be doing for a standard cleaning routine?

Also, I got a basic cleaning kit when I got my Neos a few years ago; it came with Hoppe's 9 solvent and oil and that's what I've been using ever since. But I've run out and now it's time to buy a cleaner, so I'm looking for suggestions on that front. Research there is a pain because for every person I find saying that a cleaner is the best thing ever and he sprays it on his penis every night before going to bed, another person says that the cleaner is terrible and caused his gun to explode and ruined his family. I'm hopeful for getting a clearer opinion out of goons.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Floss every day, and don't forget to wash behind your ears.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Valatar posted:

I have a Springfield XDM and a Beretta Neos and am unsatisfied with cleaning them. I get the slide and barrel off, throw a bore snake down the barrel, and get a handful of patches dirty by sticking them on a brush and scrubbing around the inside surfaces, but I can't reach lots of nooks and crannies around the trigger assemblies and worry that I'm half assing it. And that one day at the range I'll pull the trigger and the rusted out innards will just fall out the mag well. Is there anything more that I should be doing for a standard cleaning routine?

Also, I got a basic cleaning kit when I got my Neos a few years ago; it came with Hoppe's 9 solvent and oil and that's what I've been using ever since. But I've run out and now it's time to buy a cleaner, so I'm looking for suggestions on that front. Research there is a pain because for every person I find saying that a cleaner is the best thing ever and he sprays it on his penis every night before going to bed, another person says that the cleaner is terrible and caused his gun to explode and ruined his family. I'm hopeful for getting a clearer opinion out of goons.

Cheap rear end toothbrushes are helpful for those nooks and crannies, and you can also find sets of dental picks on the cheap as well. Break Free CLP is a well-liked all around cleaner, and Hoppe's #9 will serve you just fine as well. Honestly, outside of that there isn't a whole lot that you need for those two guns. .22s are always going to be dirty, that's just the nature of rimfire. I'm a gigantic rimfire whore and my cleaning routine is just to spritz parts with CLP, brush 'em, and spray some on the boresnake and run that through once or twice and that's worked fine for me for years. The only thing you want to avoid is basically drowning the parts in gobs of oil because that can gum up the works.

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Floss every day, and don't forget to wash behind your ears.

This too.

Not Nipsy Russell
Oct 6, 2004

Failure is always an option.


Dental picks are great at picking out the Rimfire Pudding* .22lr leaves behind, but don't go crazy and scrape really hard. They're hard steel. Use them gently; like a dentist! If it makes you nervous, you can get plastic picks, but they're nowhere near as good at getting in the small places.


...and for personal hygiene, I can't recommend Gold Bond Powder enough.

*a mixture of soot, unburned powder and lead shavings all bound up in wax. Mmmmmmm!

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



If you want to go easier on .22s, those little plastic one-use flossers have a pick end that are good at getting in tiny spaces. Packs of those are pretty cheap as well.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4fpmkoV9PI

Watch that video.

Then don't do anything in it at all if you like the finish on your gun.


If you want to clean your guns the lazy man's way get some Break Free CLP, drown the nooks and crannies and innards of your gun with the stuff, work the action a bit, then blow the poo poo out of it with an air compressor. Repeat this until the oil comes out clean. Blow it out one last time to get excess oil out. Voila: clean hard to reach gun innards.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Valatar posted:

I have a Springfield XDM and a Beretta Neos and am unsatisfied with cleaning them. I get the slide and barrel off, throw a bore snake down the barrel, and get a handful of patches dirty by sticking them on a brush and scrubbing around the inside surfaces, but I can't reach lots of nooks and crannies around the trigger assemblies and worry that I'm half assing it. And that one day at the range I'll pull the trigger and the rusted out innards will just fall out the mag well. Is there anything more that I should be doing for a standard cleaning routine?

Also, I got a basic cleaning kit when I got my Neos a few years ago; it came with Hoppe's 9 solvent and oil and that's what I've been using ever since. But I've run out and now it's time to buy a cleaner, so I'm looking for suggestions on that front. Research there is a pain because for every person I find saying that a cleaner is the best thing ever and he sprays it on his penis every night before going to bed, another person says that the cleaner is terrible and caused his gun to explode and ruined his family. I'm hopeful for getting a clearer opinion out of goons.

For serious advice, hoppes #9 is fine unless you are using some crazy gross ammo, in which case Sweets 7.62 is a good bore solvent. That said for your guns Hoppes #9 is totally fine. CLP is a good lube/solvent and readily available. However I would recommend you get a non-CLP dedicated lube. All kinds of good ones are out there -it doesn't really matter which one you use. Synthetic motor oil is a totally acceptable one. I get Slip2000 at Cabelas (or Fleet Farm? I forget) and I sort of prefer it over motor oil as it smells a lot better and tends to be a little bit less viscous, thus trapping less dirt in the interior of my wheelgun. Also, pick up a thing of lithium grease - this will be good for the frame rails and barrel lugs of your XDM. You just dab a TINY amount onto the frame rails, rub it around a bit, and place back on gun. Stuff I keep around to clean: disposable dental picks (the green ones with floss on them), old tooth brush, q tips, rags and patches, boresnake and/or bore brush.

Also, for the record, you don't have to worry about your guns falling apart. I can't say I am the biggest cheerleader for the XDM but it is a modern polymer pistol and I am unaware of any issues with the internals failing due to a lack of cleaning. I would recommend detail stripping a pistol for cleaning every 5k rounds, and field stripping for cleaning every 500-1k rounds, depending on the model and make. Plastic wondernines should be able to go at least 1k rounds without any cleaning at all - if not more.

So to summarize -

You should have:
1. Good bore solvent (Hoppes, etc)
2. Good dedicated lube (motor oil, slip2000, whatever who cares)
3. CLP
4. Lithium Grease
5. Bore brush and/or boresnake
6. Rags & patches
7. Old tooth brush
8. Dental picks (~3 bucks for a pack at walgreens)
9. Q-tips

Field strip for cleaning every 1k rounds, detail strip every 5k. Probably more important than cleaning is preventative parts replacement - you should keep a rough roundcount on your guns so you know what parts might need replacing and when. Usually a recoil spring will need changing every 5k rounds - other springs usually last a little longer (8-10k, stuff like mag catch spring and fp spring and extractor spring). I don't know the XD well though so google around XD forums and see what they say. Alternative call up Springfield and ask them what parts they recommend replacing and at what round count.

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



Kommienzuspadt posted:


You should have:
1. Good bore solvent (Hoppes, etc)
2. Good dedicated lube (motor oil, slip2000, whatever who cares)
3. CLP
4. Lithium Grease
5. Bore brush and/or boresnake
6. Rags & patches
7. Old tooth brush
8. Dental picks (~3 bucks for a pack at walgreens)
9. Q-tips



My list is similar
1. Hoppes
2. Remoil or atf
4. Moly Lithium grease (smells a bit but use only a small bit and only on parts that slide)
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-Moly-Grease-14-oz/16928003
5. Bore brush and brass jags for through cleaning
http://www.amazon.com/Tipton-Piece-Rifle-Brass-Jag/dp/B0000C1COV
6. Boresnake for quick cleaning after shooting
7. Rags & patches
8. Brass and plastic brushes
http://www.harborfreight.com/pc-detail-brush-set-69526.html
9. Picks for lightly scraping crap deposits
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-pick-and-hook-set-66836.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-pick-set-93514.html
10. Qtips
11. A cheapo gunsmith screwdriver
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Winchester-Gunsmith-Screwdriver-Set-51pc/20595706

And a cheap toolbox to keep everything on one place

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Most things I use Breakfree CLP on as it won't damage nickel finishes as Hoppes might....


Frankly, though, I just remove any wood or plastic, hose it all down with brake parts cleaner, then lube with either CLP (internal parts) or white lithium grease (frame rails, etc). Barrels get a bit of a deeper scrub with some Hoppes foaming cleaner. I bought it so long ago that the label has come off, but I spray and let it soak for a while before scrubbing out. Wood gets a wipe down with some boiled linseed oil; just a light maintenance coat.

Valatar
Sep 26, 2011

A remarkable example of a pathetic species.


Lipstick Apathy

Thanks to all for actual concise answers; a lot of what I see online is some variant of 'gun cleaners are a lie of the liberal media, I've put ten million rounds through everything without cleaning it once and soak my guns in mud yee haw' or 'I use only (insert popular cleaner as of post date)' or '(popular cleaner as of post date minus one month) is the worst poo poo ever and gave me ball cancer, so now I use only (insert popular cleaner as of post date)'. The lack of any kind of hard science around gun maintenance materials leaves the place open to hearsay and random anecdotes and contradictory accounts. I have the feeling that I could peel the label off a bottle of maple syrup and market it as gun lube and someone out there would post a review calling it a revolutionary new day for gun owners.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Valatar posted:

The lack of any kind of hard science around guns maintenance materials leaves the place open to hearsay and random anecdotes and contradictory accounts.

Ftfy.

There's a reason most of us only frequent TFR.

eltoozero
Jun 5, 2003
The Most Pop-tastic Man of Action.

stealie72 posted:

Ftfy.

There's a reason most of us only frequent TFR.

But I just stocked up on froglube and I can eat it if I run out of food or so I'm told.

Seriously though, that's an awesome breakdown of cleaning supplies and I'll need to pick up some of that lithium grease.

I like these things, wrap a patch around and get in weird places, q-tips and old dental picks sound equally capable. The sticks are handy for pushing takedown pins too, I've stuck a dowel in a pencil sharpener in a pinch to make one.

http://www.countycomm.com/ucs.html
http://amzn.com/B009WLX83Y

eltoozero
Jun 5, 2003
The Most Pop-tastic Man of Action.

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4fpmkoV9PI

Watch that video.

Then don't do anything in it at all if you like the finish on your gun.


If you want to clean your guns the lazy man's way get some Break Free CLP, drown the nooks and crannies and innards of your gun with the stuff, work the action a bit, then blow the poo poo out of it with an air compressor. Repeat this until the oil comes out clean. Blow it out one last time to get excess oil out. Voila: clean hard to reach gun innards.

To be fair the Armscor guns come heavily coated in shipping grease and I did use mineral spirits the first time to clean that smelly gross poo poo off my Citadel and it didn't fall apart.

It was a loving hassle and I'd do it differently next time, I'm still learning.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


There are waaaay better solvents out there than Hoppes now. I've used MPro7 and the various foaming bore cleaners and both worked great for getting out both carbon fouling and copper fouling. That said nowadays I am lazy as gently caress and just hose things down with brake cleaner. Granted this isn't really an option if you live in an apartment.

On lube: I finally tried the can of Hornady One Shot gun lube I mistook for case lube the other day when I finished up my AR pistol build and it seemed to smooth things out real well with a quick shot in the upper. Time will tell if it does more than make the gun smell like cheap crayons though.

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



eltoozero posted:

But I just stocked up on froglube and I can eat it if I run out of food or so I'm told.

Seriously though, that's an awesome breakdown of cleaning supplies and I'll need to pick up some of that lithium grease.

I like these things, wrap a patch around and get in weird places, q-tips and old dental picks sound equally capable. The sticks are handy for pushing takedown pins too, I've stuck a dowel in a pencil sharpener in a pinch to make one.

http://www.countycomm.com/ucs.html
http://amzn.com/B009WLX83Y

If you go into the bike section at walmart they should have plastic tire levers for changing a bike tire that I'm guessing would work as a cheap alternative to those cleaning sticks, not that the sticks are pricy but they want $15 shipping for a piece of plastic.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-of-3-Le...=item51c9bcecb1

You could also use bamboo kabob forks from the grocery store and cut them with scissors to get different shaped tips.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/17510862?www=true&productRedirect=true

These work great for cleaning vcrs/guns but now that I don't get to take them home from work they are way too expensive to use.
http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/CHEMTRONICS-CC50-/20-1145


For punches I used this set starting out
http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/punches/8-piece-punch-set-93424.html

I then bought this set which has been nice
http://www.amazon.com/ST3018-Drive-Pin-Punch-18-Piece/dp/B000ZEABGO

The thinner brass punches can bend and snap so be careful how you hit them and plan on replacing them after a few years of use. You can also grind down the seldom used large ones to make extra small ones.

The Moly-lithium grease has really slicked up my lever actions and M1/mini14 and you get a lifetime supply in one tube. I even use that, a $5 cracked block of paraffin from hobby lobby and vaseline to make a nice soft bullet lube.

As for gun oils, one guy really put in some effort to test every gun oil and commonly used non gun oils and try to get actual data on what works best in different scenarios. It's long but worth the effort.
http://www.dayattherange.com/?page_id=3667
Froglube does seem to live up to the hype.

For rust prevention I use lanolin that someone on here turned me onto. I also cut it with isoheet to make caselube that I spritz into my soft case liners so my guns get a bit of lanolin rubbed on them everytime they get put in a case to go to the range.

Ed's red seems like a good idea but it's mainly hoppes and atf so I've never felt I would save enough buying both and mixing them together when hoppes works fine and goes a long way already.

my turn in the barrel fucked around with this message at 09:54 on Jan 8, 2015

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Valatar posted:

Thanks to all for actual concise answers; a lot of what I see online is some variant of 'gun cleaners are a lie of the liberal media, I've put ten million rounds through everything without cleaning it once and soak my guns in mud yee haw' or 'I use only (insert popular cleaner as of post date)' or '(popular cleaner as of post date minus one month) is the worst poo poo ever and gave me ball cancer, so now I use only (insert popular cleaner as of post date)'. The lack of any kind of hard science around gun maintenance materials leaves the place open to hearsay and random anecdotes and contradictory accounts. I have the feeling that I could peel the label off a bottle of maple syrup and market it as gun lube and someone out there would post a review calling it a revolutionary new day for gun owners.

well all of those things are partially true. the average person that owns a glock or a mossberg can basically never clean them, because most people don't really shoot that much.

Valatar
Sep 26, 2011

A remarkable example of a pathetic species.


Lipstick Apathy

Kommienzuspadt posted:

well all of those things are partially true. the average person that owns a glock or a mossberg can basically never clean them, because most people don't really shoot that much.

See that makes no sense to me. I just shoot at a range for fun, I don't carry and have no illusions that crazed home invaders are liable to murderape me if I don't sleep with my pistols under my pillow, but even if I wasn't shooting as a hobby, or perhaps especially if I wasn't shooting as a hobby I'd want to be putting a hundred or so sounds through each gun a month rather than let it collect dust in a drawer. A gun that you can't hit what you're aiming at with is worse than useless, it's actively dangerous to everyone around you if you ever wield it.

As a somewhat sad side story, my father's one of the 'I need a gun for home defense even though my home has literally never once been even burgled' crowd. He bought a couple of Glocks right around the same time I got my XDM, which was about a year after I started plinking with my Neos. We'd go to the range and I had 4" target sheets that I put at seven yards and he'd get the human silhouette targets and blaze away at them from five yards. About half of his shots got the paper person around the gut, some hit the arms, some missed completely, but he'd look at it and nod and be all, "If that was a person, I'd have killed him." Months passed, and my aim improved while his stayed pretty much the same. I kept trying to convince him to switch to smaller circular targets, but he kept insisting on buying the human targets and pretty much sucking at hitting them; as long as he felt that the paper man was dead after forty or so rounds, he seemed satisfied. I can only hope that he never actually needs to use his gun, because I haven't been able to get it to sink in for him that an inch matters when you're dealing with bullets.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Valatar posted:

See that makes no sense to me. I just shoot at a range for fun, I don't carry and have no illusions that crazed home invaders are liable to murderape me if I don't sleep with my pistols under my pillow, but even if I wasn't shooting as a hobby, or perhaps especially if I wasn't shooting as a hobby I'd want to be putting a hundred or so sounds through each gun a month rather than let it collect dust in a drawer. A gun that you can't hit what you're aiming at with is worse than useless, it's actively dangerous to everyone around you if you ever wield it.

As a somewhat sad side story, my father's one of the 'I need a gun for home defense even though my home has literally never once been even burgled' crowd. He bought a couple of Glocks right around the same time I got my XDM, which was about a year after I started plinking with my Neos. We'd go to the range and I had 4" target sheets that I put at seven yards and he'd get the human silhouette targets and blaze away at them from five yards. About half of his shots got the paper person around the gut, some hit the arms, some missed completely, but he'd look at it and nod and be all, "If that was a person, I'd have killed him." Months passed, and my aim improved while his stayed pretty much the same. I kept trying to convince him to switch to smaller circular targets, but he kept insisting on buying the human targets and pretty much sucking at hitting them; as long as he felt that the paper man was dead after forty or so rounds, he seemed satisfied. I can only hope that he never actually needs to use his gun, because I haven't been able to get it to sink in for him that an inch matters when you're dealing with bullets.

Yeah... the bar for competency with a handgun is insanely low for the average Joe Blow it seems...

Still, even with your example of 100 rounds/month, that's basically nothing to a gun like a Glock. At 100/month it'd take you almost 5 years til you got to the expected lifespan of the the weakest spring (RSA). I guarantee you you could not clean it once in those 5k rounds and it will not adversely affect function at all. Most modern combat handguns (Glock, SIG, HK, S&W, and so on) should be able to go a minimum of 2k rounds with literally 0 maintenance, and are most certainly capable of going much longer than that too.

Poniard
Apr 3, 2011





I use CLP to clean not only my guns, but myself as well.

eltoozero
Jun 5, 2003
The Most Pop-tastic Man of Action.

Can anyone clarify this bit of cleaning instruction I don't understand:

Every guide I've seen says to only run the patches/bore brush in the breech to muzzle direction.

Does that mean you should unscrew the bore-brush after every stroke?

It makes sense you shouldn't change direction in the bore, but there's no quick way to detach the brush, unless I'm just being impatient.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Get a bore snake. Problem solved.

http://www.hoppes.com/boresnake/the-boresnake

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



eltoozero posted:

Can anyone clarify this bit of cleaning instruction I don't understand:

Every guide I've seen says to only run the patches/bore brush in the breech to muzzle direction.

Does that mean you should unscrew the bore-brush after every stroke?

It makes sense you shouldn't change direction in the bore, but there's no quick way to detach the brush, unless I'm just being impatient.

Ideally you would push each patch through from the chamber side and then pull the bare jag back through.

This ensures that you push all the debris out of the barrel, probably will clean a non bottleneck chamber better and will prevent you from scratching the muzzle crown with a cleaning rod.

In reality if you use the proper size brushes and jags and a cleaning rod that is softer than the muzzle(brass, aluminum) and pay attention you should not damage anything. Many guns are difficult to clean from the breech with anything buy a boresnake. They sell crown protectors if you want extra safety.

You can usually just use a bore snake and with proper care use a standard rod for more through cleanings less sporadically.

my turn in the barrel fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Jan 19, 2015

Steeltalon
Feb 14, 2012

Perps were uncooperative.




Typically I bring 3 or 4 guns out when I'm at the range. Since I work mostly on sight picture and trigger control I'm not putting a ton of rounds through them. I find a quick snake through the bore and bolt wipe down is pretty much all I need. I don't get all surgical cleaning the receiver after every shoot. Pistols get dirty pretty darn fast though. I've never tried to clean to a point that it looks new out of the box. That's just too obsessive. it's just going to get dirty again.

I picked up an Otis cleaning snake. It's a metal wire coated in plastic that you can snake patches through on a jag with out using a rod. Seriously the best thing since bore snakes. I really like it because you can just run patches with out a brush.

Steeltalon fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jan 19, 2015

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

I hose my poo poo down with brake cleaner whenever the slide starts to grind, then I drip a few drops on them from these sample packets of Brownells Friction Defense that I got in a prize bag two years ago.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


I wipe it down with a rag and an old toothbrush and throw some oil on the action whenever it starts feeling gritty. Beyond that I can't be bothered.

ShitheadDeluxe
May 14, 2007


I make a pate of tinned fish and Hoppes and put it on saltines.

eltoozero
Jun 5, 2003
The Most Pop-tastic Man of Action.

Pubic Lair posted:

Ideally you would push each patch through from the chamber side and then pull the bare jag back through.

This ensures that you push all the debris out of the barrel, probably will clean a non bottleneck chamber better and will prevent you from scratching the muzzle crown with a cleaning rod.

In reality if you use the proper size brushes and jags and a cleaning rod that is softer than the muzzle(brass, aluminum) and pay attention you should not damage anything. Many guns are difficult to clean from the breech with anything buy a boresnake. They sell crown protectors if you want extra safety.

You can usually just use a bore snake and with proper care use a standard rod for more through cleanings less sporadically.


I mistakenly brushed off boresnakes even though they've been around forever, even after seeing it in both good lists of supplies in this thread; after cleaning 9 guns and two extra shotgun barrels with rods brushes and jags last night I see how advantageous the snake is except for infrequent detailed cleaning.

Managed to get through 7 of the 11 before spilling the decade old bottle of Outer's nitro solvent, twice, so I'll be picking up some Hoppe's 9 since froglube (CLP anyway) won't clean a barrel.

I watched the stupid boresnake infomercial from the SWAT sniper instructor fudd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwlFtWTMcgU, but do you guys wet down the snake with solvent at the front, or just oil in the back? (I'm going to still say hops even though dude clearly says hoppys).

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



eltoozero posted:

I watched the stupid boresnake infomercial from the SWAT sniper instructor fudd https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwlFtWTMcgU, but do you guys wet down the snake with solvent at the front, or just oil in the back? (I'm going to still say hops even though dude clearly says hoppys).

I just drip a bit of hoppes on the front of the snake in front of the brush and pull through several times. Hoppes will prevent rust according to the label and I've never had issues so I generally don't oil my bores.

I had no idea the hoppes line was a movie tie in.

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eltoozero
Jun 5, 2003
The Most Pop-tastic Man of Action.

Pubic Lair posted:

I had no idea the hoppes line was a movie tie in.

What's that now?

I just learned Hoppe's is part of the same group that owns Butler Creek, CCI, Blackhawk, Outer's, Champion, Federal, Gunslick, M-Pro 7, Savage, Uncle Mike's and Weaver among others. http://www.hoppes.com/history

drat.

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