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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



I just watched the women's sabre final from that US Challenge event (it was the only recent video up at the time) and two things stuck out - the constant cheering and clapping, and nobody getting warned for having their hair out. Spotting the first threaten after the bout is started must be a bastard, too.

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dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

Do it! Especially if you're afraid you won't get a drinking problem, because the best ref mentoring occurs at the bar.

Seriously, if you enjoy the sport and have a knack for reffing, do it. It's fun, challenging, and, sometimes, you get paid to do it! Yankees can gently caress off in regards to being paid. :bahgawd:

I do it quite a bit around the division, but all the stories I hear about doing it on the national scene... But nothing is worse than reffing epee.

Crazy Achmed posted:

I just watched the women's sabre final from that US Challenge event (it was the only recent video up at the time) and two things stuck out - the constant cheering and clapping, and nobody getting warned for having their hair out. Spotting the first threaten after the bout is started must be a bastard, too.

To be fair it's not as huge of a deal with saber since there's so much to hit and to hit with. And you're not really aiming to his middle of the back.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


It seems like it is over after the second or third strike. And I would like to thank everyone for no I'm gay and kill you are self. I guess I should stay out of gbs.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



dupersaurus posted:

I do it quite a bit around the division, but all the stories I hear about doing it on the national scene... But nothing is worse than reffing epee.

To be fair it's not as huge of a deal with saber since there's so much to hit and to hit with. And you're not really aiming to his middle of the back.

What's so bad about reffing epee? I'd have thought that fretting over the minutiae of priority rules would be worse.
Nice to see that they're being a bit laid back about the hair.

thewireguy posted:

It seems like it is over after the second or third strike. And I would like to thank everyone for no I'm gay and kill you are self. I guess I should stay out of gbs.
Second or third strike?
We're not gay, we just want to touch you with our tips.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Crazy Achmed posted:

What's so bad about reffing epee? I'd have thought that fretting over the minutiae of priority rules would be worse.
Its loving boring as poo poo and as soon as you stop concentrating, someone will go for a toe touch right next to the edge of the piste (or its ungrounded) while the other person is stepping off the side and then you have to make the only call of the match that's actually interesting and you blew it because even as a pretty decent epee fencer a day of reffing it sounds like hell. Especially if the quality of the bout is lower.

e: Like, I'll watch high-level epee bouts for fun and the idea of reffing epee all day makes me cringe.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


I had a really bad week and asked the instructor/sense i if he would defend while I flailed around like an idiot to work off my aggression, but he said I had to be there 6 months before I could do that. :( I suppose it is frowned upon to hack away at punching bags too.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Crazy Achmed posted:

What's so bad about reffing epee? I'd have thought that fretting over the minutiae of priority rules would be worse.
Nice to see that they're being a bit laid back about the hair.
Second or third strike?
We're not gay, we just want to touch you with our tips.

Yeah, the point usually happens after the second or third strike. It is over pretty quickly.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Ravenfood posted:

Its loving boring as poo poo and as soon as you stop concentrating, someone will go for a toe touch right next to the edge of the piste (or its ungrounded) while the other person is stepping off the side and then you have to make the only call of the match that's actually interesting and you blew it because even as a pretty decent epee fencer a day of reffing it sounds like hell. Especially if the quality of the bout is lower.

e: Like, I'll watch high-level epee bouts for fun and the idea of reffing epee all day makes me cringe.

Not to mention the whole "end of the third period, the bout is to my left, 5-4." Priority is simple and makes things interesting.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Verisimilidude posted:

What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.

Any sort of cross-training. My club hosts a guy that does boot camps which I do once a week, and when the weather's good I'm out on my bike a few times a week. Leg and core is always good, and arm work doesn't hurt either.

Rodrigo Diaz
Apr 16, 2007

Knights who are at the wars eat their bread in sorrow;
their ease is weariness and sweat;
they have one good day after many bad

thewireguy posted:

I had a really bad week and asked the instructor/sense i if he would defend while I flailed around like an idiot to work off my aggression, but he said I had to be there 6 months before I could do that. :( I suppose it is frowned upon to hack away at punching bags too.

What you want is a pell, which is basically a log sunk vertically into the ground. Good luck!

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Verisimilidude posted:

What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.
Climbing and more footwork at home.

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


Verisimilidude posted:

What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.

Running and weight training. Nothing fancy.

I really like running with minimalist shoes, though, since they force me to build up my calves.

Rabhadh
Aug 26, 2007


Verisimilidude posted:

What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.

Same as the last guy, trail running in minimalist shoes and weight lifting. Specifically, westside for skinny bastards. You can find the .pdf if you search through the martial arts thread, it came highly recommended there and it's been working fantastically for me. For the running, I do 2 days of 10 rep hill sprints and a single day of a ~10k trail run.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Rodrigo Diaz posted:

What you want is a pell, which is basically a log sunk vertically into the ground. Good luck!

He said I have to be there six months or more to spar. I don't have my own sword. I do have a fire poker I forged in college. I guess you will say I should choke a pillow instead of the homeless or hookers too. gently caress me. I am too sore to do anything anyway.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



thewireguy posted:

He said I have to be there six months or more to spar. I don't have my own sword. I do have a fire poker I forged in college. I guess you will say I should choke a pillow instead of the homeless or hookers too. gently caress me. I am too sore to do anything anyway.
I think the biggest thing right now is to take it easy (to a degree) during training, or you'll end up straining/injuring yourself. Aggression is good, as being able to exert and maintain pressure on your opponent is a really good skill, but control is far more important.
It's definitely going to help if you set up a target to hit and practise cuts with a suitable stick, but go slow and carefully and think about whether your form is good or not.

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


thewireguy posted:

He said I have to be there six months or more to spar.

I've always been confused at the whole "X amount of time before you spar" thing some places love to do. It's really more about maturity and following a few simple safety rules than actually being good. Different people grasp these things at different rates.

By putting a definite time limit on it, the whole thing feels more like hazing than ensuring safety.

I assume this is historical, though. What kind of weapons/protective gear do you guys use? I can see the 6 month thing making sense as a general rule to keep the new guys reigned in if you have a situation where one idiot can really hurt someone.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





ScratchAndSniff posted:

I've always been confused at the whole "X amount of time before you spar" thing some places love to do. It's really more about maturity and following a few simple safety rules than actually being good. Different people grasp these things at different rates.

By putting a definite time limit on it, the whole thing feels more like hazing than ensuring safety.

I assume this is historical, though. What kind of weapons/protective gear do you guys use? I can see the 6 month thing making sense as a general rule to keep the new guys reigned in if you have a situation where one idiot can really hurt someone.

I'm not sure if it's historical, but we don't follow it in our school. We require students to go through the three beginner classes, which cover basics of striking, footwork, distance, and sword safety. You can take these over the course of a month, since each class is on a twice-weekly schedule. Then students are allowed to take intermediate courses, which include partnering up and practicing sword-on-sword contact. You're allowed to participate in sparring at this point, but if you don't have gear you can probably only use gekken (padded swords).

We've even allowed people to spar with gekken who are still beginner students, especially if they think they're hot poo poo. They're only allowed to spar against experienced students though, and they usually don't come back because they get owned.

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


I've only seen a couple hotshit new guys ragequit fencing after getting owned by more experienced guys. Each time it was hilarious, though, and I was glad to see them go.

Edit: 3 beginner classes before bouting seems pretty reasonable to me.

ScratchAndSniff fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Jun 30, 2015

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Yeah, it is hema. I don't have any gear myself, but gloves and a mask with the neck protector part for what they will let me do. When they spar they have something that looks like a catchers body guard and elbow and shin guards with hard plastic on them. I am glad they didn't allow me to be an idiot. I am over it now, but just wanted to work out my frustrations. I won't be able to make it today because I have to put up a sign for the airport :(

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


They said full gear, including a steel sword costs about $1,500, 500 for the sword. Is this accurate? Links?

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I'm not a HEMAer, but I'm going to propose that asking to spar "to work out my frustrations" is probably not a healthy way to go about the sport.

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


dupersaurus posted:

I'm not a HEMAer, but I'm going to propose that asking to spar "to work out my frustrations" is probably not a healthy way to go about the sport.

I know, I know. I thought it might be better than kicking a dog or something.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



ScratchAndSniff posted:

I've always been confused at the whole "X amount of time before you spar" thing some places love to do. It's really more about maturity and following a few simple safety rules than actually being good. Different people grasp these things at different rates.

By putting a definite time limit on it, the whole thing feels more like hazing than ensuring safety.

I assume this is historical, though. What kind of weapons/protective gear do you guys use? I can see the 6 month thing making sense as a general rule to keep the new guys reigned in if you have a situation where one idiot can really hurt someone.

It's about making sure that people have the basics down before they start hacking away at each other. Typically people will forget everything they've been taught the first (many) times in front of a 'live opponent'. In fact, often even just putting them in armor seems to be enough to make people forget.
The dojo where I started was quite beginner friendly and you would typically be in armor and sparring within 3-4 months. Current one is a lot more old fashioned and it typically takes about a year.
It may sound excessive, but given that kendo is considered a life long pursuit, it will build a much better foundation.
For similar reasons, sparring in the beginning also only takes place against seniors. This means that they will be shown the correct way to do it.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



thewireguy posted:

They said full gear, including a steel sword costs about $1,500, 500 for the sword. Is this accurate? Links?
That sounds pretty accurate. $500 is what Albion Swords charges for their line of training swords, for instance. Arms & Armor is only slightly more expensive. I'm fairly sure both are well-regarded brands, and they're both from the US so you shouldn't have too much trouble finding a sword.

For protective equipment, you should probably consult Verisimilidude since he does free fencing and should know how people do things on your side of the pond. You can get a feel for the prices by browsing, for instance, Purpleheart Armory, but note that their masks are only rated for 350 Newtons. If your club rules say you should have a proper FIE-certified 1600N mask, it's going to cost a bunch more.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

They said full gear, including a steel sword costs about $1,500, 500 for the sword. Is this accurate? Links?

A feder will run you between $300 to $500 depending on where you're getting them from. Regenyei feders are well made, minimalist, and will run you around $350, and can be shipped quickly in the US because there's a distributor here.

Chlebowski (Facebook link) will run you about $315 + s/h but they take a while to ship. Some people like them, some people don't, but they are constantly improving.

Albion swords makes a pretty great feder (the Meyer) but they're a bit higher end (around $490 + s/h) and can take several months to be delivered. I ordered a meyer and a marozzo recently and I have to wait four months before they show up. :(

There are a bunch of different smiths to look into, most of them pretty good. Just stay away from Hanwei, or ask people in your school what they'd suggest.

As for protective equipment, a (good) jacket runs around $250+, not including shipping and handling. It's best to speak with a distributor for these, as the best jackets available right now come from Poland and they can take a while to ship.

SPES makes the current standard in HEMA fencing jackets. The Axel Pettersson jacket is the most popular. The Pro version was made without his consultation, and includes an additional layer of leather protection on the chest as well as plastic plates along the arm and shoulders. For reference Axel Pettersson is arguably the best longsword fencer in the world, and probably also the best at messer as well.

The Absolute Force HEMA mask is another standard in many schools, though most people seem to eventually upgrade to something a bit more comfortable.

Gloves you have a bunch of options, mostly depending on your needs. I suggest the Ensifer sparring gloves. They'll run you around $250, but they're solid gloves that should last a while (or until the pro gauntlet comes out, if it ever does).

So in total, if you buy stuff that I suggested, that's $250 for the jacket, $350 for a Regenyei feder, $250 for the gloves, and $110 for the mask, give or take a hundred for shipping and handling.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 30, 2015

ScratchAndSniff
Sep 28, 2008

This game stinks


ImplicitAssembler posted:

It's about making sure that people have the basics down before they start hacking away at each other. Typically people will forget everything they've been taught the first (many) times in front of a 'live opponent'. In fact, often even just putting them in armor seems to be enough to make people forget.
The dojo where I started was quite beginner friendly and you would typically be in armor and sparring within 3-4 months. Current one is a lot more old fashioned and it typically takes about a year.
It may sound excessive, but given that kendo is considered a life long pursuit, it will build a much better foundation.
For similar reasons, sparring in the beginning also only takes place against seniors. This means that they will be shown the correct way to do it.

I can respect wanting students to get the basics down first, but you say it "typically takes..." which makes me think you have some kind of skill requirements. I have no problem there. I'm more annoyed by firm declarations that students need to be around for X months, regardless of how often a student trains or how fast they learn.

Also, Kendo is a different world, so I won't pretend anything I say automatically applies there too.

DandyLion
Jun 24, 2010
disrespectul Deciever


Verisimilidude posted:

A feder will run you between $300 to $500 depending on where you're getting them from. Regenyei feders are well made, minimalist, and will run you around $350, and can be shipped quickly in the US because there's a distributor here.

Chlebowski (Facebook link) will run you about $315 + s/h but they take a while to ship. Some people like them, some people don't, but they are constantly improving.

Albion swords makes a pretty great feder (the Meyer) but they're a bit higher end (around $490 + s/h) and can take several months to be delivered. I ordered a meyer and a marozzo recently and I have to wait four months before they show up. :(

There are a bunch of different smiths to look into, most of them pretty good. Just stay away from Hanwei, or ask people in your school what they'd suggest.

As for protective equipment, a (good) jacket runs around $250+, not including shipping and handling. It's best to speak with a distributor for these, as the best jackets available right now come from Poland and they can take a while to ship.

SPES makes the current standard in HEMA fencing jackets. The Axel Pettersson jacket is the most popular. The Pro version was made without his consultation, and includes an additional layer of leather protection on the chest as well as plastic plates along the arm and shoulders. For reference Axel Pettersson is arguably the best longsword fencer in the world, and probably also the best at messer as well.

The Absolute Force HEMA mask is another standard in many schools, though most people seem to eventually upgrade to something a bit more comfortable.

Gloves you have a bunch of options, mostly depending on your needs. I suggest the Ensifer sparring gloves. They'll run you around $250, but they're solid gloves that should last a while (or until the pro gauntlet comes out, if it ever does).

So in total, if you buy stuff that I suggested, that's $250 for the jacket, $350 for a Regenyei feder, $250 for the gloves, and $110 for the mask, give or take a hundred for shipping and handling.

This is a great post for grabbing good quality starter gear.

Also echoing ScratchAndSniff though, I personally really like getting beginners into sparring as soon as possible, if only for the look from the other side regarding fencing untrained and potentially suicidal opponents. I consider them as proxy's for 'resolute men half drunk'. Plus sparring seems to teach the concepts faster (or at least teach the mistakes faster).

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


I am definitely trying to work out my bad habits, and was not surprised that nobody wanted to fend off a suicidal idiot. I am living paycheck to paycheck. I may have to give up eating out, but what first?

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Oh, mistakes definitely make a quicker impression that drilling. Take that from a newbie.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



thewireguy posted:

I may have to give up eating out, but what first?
If your club is like ours and insists on masks while drilling, you should probably start with that. As long as you make sure it fits properly, having your own mask should be a massive quality of life improvement.

After that, heck, get the sword. You know you want to, and it's going to be your #1 most-used piece of equipment.

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





thewireguy posted:

I am definitely trying to work out my bad habits, and was not surprised that nobody wanted to fend off a suicidal idiot. I am living paycheck to paycheck. I may have to give up eating out, but what first?

It depends on what your school does more of. Most people are willing to lend a spare sword, but fewer people are willing to lend a sweaty jacket or stinky fencing mask. A mask or gloves will let you practice drills more effectively than if you were completely unprotected.

I always suggest new students get a mask and lacrosse gloves to start. You can't spar with lacrosse gloves, but you can take an accidental whack to the hands during drills without injury.

After that invest in a sword. Then upgrade to better gloves, and then a fencing jacket.

Verisimilidude fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Jun 30, 2015

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



I'm starting to think our club does things super weird when we just hand newcomers steel blunts, go "okay so rule #1 is everyone leaves healthier than they came in" and have them doing controlled pair drills by the end of their first class. Wearing masks when drilling is an absolute rule, but very few people wear gloves.

HEY GUNS
Oct 11, 2012

FOPTIMUS PRIME


Siivola posted:

Wearing masks when drilling is an absolute rule, but very few people wear gloves.
the difference is because americans, in my experience, are huge babies about getting hit on the hands

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

A local HEMA group did a few weeks of a longsword class at my club recently and for most of it they were doing drills with plastic blades, against dummies and people, with and without protection. The instructors brought out metal weapons for the last class. Seemed like a pretty good way to go about it.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

Siivola posted:

I'm starting to think our club does things super weird when we just hand newcomers steel blunts, go "okay so rule #1 is everyone leaves healthier than they came in" and have them doing controlled pair drills by the end of their first class. Wearing masks when drilling is an absolute rule, but very few people wear gloves.
Depends on how slow you do those drills and how coordinated your partner is. Because gently caress some people.

We usually start beginners with wood. Doubly so because they usually cannot use a steel sword for a whole lesson (its just too heavy).

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



thewireguy posted:

Oh, mistakes definitely make a quicker impression that drilling. Take that from a newbie.

No they don't. Take that from an instructor :)

thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


ImplicitAssembler posted:

No they don't. Take that from an instructor :)

Don't get me wrong, I understand getting the fundamentals down first, I have done several martial arts. But getting your knuckles rapped is a big deterrent. You don't know why you are doing what you are doing at first. Pain is a great teacher.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



thewireguy posted:

Don't get me wrong, I understand getting the fundamentals down first, I have done several martial arts. But getting your knuckles rapped is a big deterrent. You don't know why you are doing what you are doing at first. Pain is a great teacher.

Pain can sometimes be a useful aid, but your time is much better spent doing drills. There's a reason that virtually every single martial art spend the majority of the time doing drills.

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thewireguy
Jul 2, 2013


Holy poo poo, they want 100 to 2,300 bucks for the art of combat by Joachim Meyers.

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