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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE


Cessna posted:

Carte = Quarte, Parry 4.

Thank you!

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Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Seconde is basically octave but with your knuckles up rather than thumb up. It feels a bit slower to me but can be done with a low or high hand pretty easily depending on where the attack is coming in. Works great against someone running past you but makes me look like a chump if they see it coming and disengage.
What’s the low prime meant to be for?

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Crazy Achmed posted:

Seconde is basically octave but with your knuckles up rather than thumb up. It feels a bit slower to me but can be done with a low or high hand pretty easily depending on where the attack is coming in. Works great against someone running past you but makes me look like a chump if they see it coming and disengage.
What’s the low prime meant to be for?

Defending against the thrust to the lower torso/cut to the leading leg, iirc.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Prime's good for infighting in foil, though it's much more hand-high-tip-down than depicted there

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


The probably apocryphal story I heard about the utility and origin of the parry positions was that they started with a drawing parry. So prime was good for "oh gently caress someone is attacking me I am drawing my blade and covering my left side because that is where I can get my blade fastest".

E: vvv oh prime is a great parry I used to use in epee a lot, mostly just commenting on low prime.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:09 on Apr 15, 2021

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

I don't know, it's a pretty straightforward parry. Move your hand up, keep the point towards the opponent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jMvm2LlwQ

YoursTruly
Jul 29, 2012

Put me in the trash
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.


Anyone ever poke a dude's eye out with their blade? I came close once I think, just had it in my hand facing away from the people in front of me while talking, but somehow or another moved my hand backwards in such a way that the foil went straight back and up towards the team captain's face. Tbh if he started wearing an eye patch I think he would have struck more fear in his opponents.

That being said, ~10 years later I'm thinking of taking up the hobby again. Going to want to buy a bunch of safety gear sooner or later because I am clumsy. Aside from footwork and reading, what should I start practicing again before signing up for some actual lessons at the local club?

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Liquid Communism posted:

Defending against the thrust to the lower torso/cut to the leading leg, iirc.

Oh yeah, makes sense. I’m a dirty foilist and only ever use it with a high hand.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Anyone else's clubs opening back up?

We can get in and fence if we show a vaccine card.

Jack B Nimble
Dec 25, 2007




Soiled Meat

The Facebook page of the club I want to join still has a stickied post about being closed :(

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



Fencing has only been 'closed' for the last set of restrictions. Before that, it ran with limited capacity. The last 5 weeks, it's been juniors and high performance (national level) only and private lessons. It should open up to almost normal next week.
Been working with 2 coaches. One, more traditional drills., the other on 'how to fight', so mostly working on prep. Epee is very similar to kendo in that regard.

Kendo did a soft restart last week. Drills only, no contact. I *think* we might go back to regular practice next week, if not then on July 1st (Depending on infection rates, but it's looking good at the moment).

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

All the clubs here have been running at limited capacity and strict mask controls pretty much all year. One was even doing most of their stuff outside until they had to give up the space last month.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

My son qualified for Junior Olympics again, so it looks like we're going to Philadelphia next month. There's also the Vet's NAC (Old guy's matches) that I qualify for, so I'll go fence as well.

I doubt I'll make it past the first round, but it should still be fun, a chance to fence some top athletes.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Cessna posted:

Anyone else's clubs opening back up?

We can get in and fence if we show a vaccine card.

July is the current plan.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



As we’re an isolated island nation and did some serious lockdown early on, New Zealand is up and running.
I did have a really cool moment the other day when i ran a newbie through some basic attack and parry-riposte drills, then watched him apply it and turn the tables on another fencer who he hadn’t been able to beat earlier in the night.

BirdOfPlay
Feb 19, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Cessna posted:

My son qualified for Junior Olympics again, so it looks like we're going to Philadelphia next month. There's also the Vet's NAC (Old guy's matches) that I qualify for, so I'll go fence as well.

I doubt I'll make it past the first round, but it should still be fun, a chance to fence some top athletes.

Congrats! Summer Nats is going to be the first traditionally sized national event since the lock down, and we're all going to be in one, big, happy hall as well. I'm scheduled for the full 10 days and have no clue when my days off are, lol.

Also, the alternate for the US men's epee team has been under suspension pending a Safesport complaint. News just dropped today that the suspension is being lifted while the investigation proceeds. And, yes, this is highly unusual and, in my mind, not a good move by USA Fencing, US Safesport, and/or the USOPC (United States Olympic and Paralympic Committee).

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



Kendo is now back to normal. Masks still required, but it's ok. We might even fit in a tournament or two this year. I'd also forgotten just how much physically harder kendo is (than fencing).

Fencing is also back to normal. Was really weird going back to fencing peers again. Having mostly fenced coaches over the last 2-3 months, where I ended up attacking most of the time, I had a hard time adjusting to people attacking *me*!. How dare they!.
To compensate, I bought a fancy Harut epee grip. I'm sure that will make my fencing much better.

10 Beers
May 21, 2005

Shit! I didn't bring a knife.



Anyone have experience with this brand of feder?

https://federschwert.com/products/kingston-arms-sport-feder-practice-longsword

Kestral
Nov 24, 2000

Forum Veteran

Are there any interesting storylines or competitors going into this Olympics? I fenced modern saber and historical rapier and broadsword before my knees got wrecked, so Olympic fencing is always on my to-watch list, and I'd love to have more stuff for the Olympic Storylines Thread. But since I don't really follow the competitive aspects of the sport these days, and major news coverage barely even knows fencing exists, it's hard to pick out the fun storylines or know who to root for before "person from your country."

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Kestral posted:

Are there any interesting storylines or competitors going into this Olympics?

I'm wondering if Oh will get gold, I hope he does. He's got a very dynamic style that's fun to watch. He's up against Szilagyi, who is an tough competitor who is more "classic" and has already has won golds in 2012 and 2016. We could see a changing of the guard in men's sabre.

I'm also rooting for Zagunis. She's a four-time Olympian, and I'd love to see her do well. She'll be up against Kharlan, whose technique is very impressive.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





^^^This is a great start, thanks!

I would also like any additional info on the contestants themselves! I usually watch at least some of the fencing at the Olympics, but I'd love to have some more meat to bite into.

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Are the USMF still hot stuff? It’s been a while since I really paid attention to them

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Xiahou Dun posted:

I would also like any additional info on the contestants themselves!

I know little or nothing about their personal lives. Also, this is all men's sabre, I know very little about foil and absolutely nothing about epee. I'm also talking individuals, not teams. And I am not an expert; I'm relatively new to sabre - most of this info is from my coaches telling me who to watch and why.

Oh is South Korean. The phrase that I've heard that describes him best is "no one that big should be that fast." He's also amazingly flexible, so he can stretch a lunge attack out to distances that no human being should be able to reach. Picture a 6'4" man stretching out like a gymnast. Here's a brief video of some of his work:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6CoxbvaxjU

Next is Szilagyi, from Hungary. He's just - precise. Watching him fence is like watching a textbook come to life. If you have a coach, they want you to fence like Szilagyi - smooth, balanced, quick, controlled:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNgl_7sRXw

The contrast between the two of them is really cool. You've got this big amazingly athletic guy from a country that's relatively new to fencing who spends eight hours a day doing footwork, versus the absolute textbook classic Fencing Academy precision style practitioner from an old-school sabre country.

Another athlete to watch is Darryl Homer. He's from New York City, a guy from the Bronx who won a silver medal in 2016. (This is the best the USA has ever done in sabre.) Everyone I know from my school - the old school coaches who have been in the sport for decades who know everyone - who has met him says he's the nicest guy in the world.

Homer is the master of acceleration. You think he's starting his march attack and before you know it he's wooshed across the strip, closed, and got the point while you were setting up a parry. He's also known for his flunge.

Flunge is "flying lunge." Back in the old days sabre had charge attacks, where opponents would just run at each other, making matches predictable and boring and encouraging poor technique. To prevent this they made a rule whereby you can't bring your back foot in front of your front foot, to make you make a deliberate advance. Homer's response is to just defy gravity and fly.

Here's a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DVD5ig2NU

Homer is great, but - well, I hate to say this, but I think he surprised everyone in 2016, but by now the other Olympians are prepared to deal with his techniques. I hope he's got a counter to their counter, if that makes sense.


Tl;dr:

- Oh is tremendously athletic and may well represent a new way to fence sabre.

- Szilyagi is precise, classic fencing.

- Homer is the one you want to win - root for him with your heart - but we don't know if his surprising techniques have staying power.



I obviously can't promise that Oh, Szilyagi, or Homer will get gold/silver, but they're all fun to follow and they'll make for some great fencing.

Cessna fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jul 23, 2021

YoursTruly
Jul 29, 2012

Put me in the trash
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.


The last time I fenced was a bit over 10 years ago. I distinguished myself by almost stabbing our coach in the eye, and by sparring without having my electronic stuff plugged in. Otherwise, I was terrible, but I was learning.

Is there room in the average fencing club for those of us who are competitively inclined, but are otherwise not good at the sport?

I'd like to git gud, but with all that's gone on lately, it's a little intimidating to consider going back.

For what it's worth, I initially practiced with foil, but I'm down with epee, and my local club has a two handed longsword which seems :krad:

Any advice?

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


YoursTruly posted:

The last time I fenced was a bit over 10 years ago. I distinguished myself by almost stabbing our coach in the eye, and by sparring without having my electronic stuff plugged in. Otherwise, I was terrible, but I was learning.

Is there room in the average fencing club for those of us who are competitively inclined, but are otherwise not good at the sport?

I'd like to git gud, but with all that's gone on lately, it's a little intimidating to consider going back.

For what it's worth, I initially practiced with foil, but I'm down with epee, and my local club has a two handed longsword which seems :krad:

Any advice?

Join up. Every club I've been in has had very wide ranges of skills and people with significant variation in goals too.

E: also thanks for the neat write up on men's sabre. I haven't followed it at all and that was a fun little intro.

ImplicitAssembler
Jan 24, 2013



For Epee, Heinzer from Switzerland is probably the most entertaining to watch, although I'm much more a fan of Yannick Borrel.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





Thanks, Cessna. Those videos especially are super cool.

Also his name is clearly Oh because it's short for "Oh my god human calves were not meant to do that."

Kestral
Nov 24, 2000

Forum Veteran

Cessna posted:

Tl;dr:

- Oh is tremendously athletic and may well represent a new way to fence sabre.

- Szilyagi is precise, classic fencing.

- Homer is the one you want to win - root for him with your heart - but we don't know if his surprising techniques have staying power.

This whole writeup is awesome, thank you! Would you mind if I reposted it in the storylines thread, unless you want to put it there yourself? Also, go Homer, the flunge is the most wuxia of saber techniques and therefore the most fun to watch.

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

YoursTruly posted:

Is there room in the average fencing club for those of us who are competitively inclined, but are otherwise not good at the sport?

I mean, that's where I am. I have a lot of fun but I'm never going to win any gold medals. I go three times per week, 2-3 hours per session, but I'm an old guy and I've only been doing it for less than two years. There are 20 year olds with lightning reflexes who train 3-4 hours a day every day out there, and they just slaughter me. But I'm okay with that and still going to stick with it - it's fun, it's a challenge, and it's a good workout.


But I think it depends on the club. Mine is really good at being what you need. If you just want a workout and casual fencing for fun, great, or if you want to be competitive and train for national matches, they can do that too. Other clubs might really emphasize the competitive, or not go to matches at all.


Kestral posted:

Would you mind if I reposted it in the storylines thread, unless you want to put it there yourself?

You're welcome to repost it, just mantion my name or quote me.

Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS





I'm sure there are some crazy serious schools that go full Cobra Kai about everything or whatever, but I've never seen one ; I've moved a lot and I'm fickle so I've been to a decent amount of schools and they always tolerated my clumsy butt. If the club doesn't recognize it's fundamentally for personal growth/exercise/fun/general well-being, you're probably better off finding another place anyway just cause they're jerks.

PS longsword is really fun and I recommend trying it, hell yeah. In general, always try a new kind of fencing if you can as long as it's not dangerous or whatever ; I ended up never really getting into a sabre but I'm still glad I tried it for a bit and if someone walked up to me right now and asked if I wanted to mess around for funsies I'd totally say yes*.

*I'd just also get my rear end handed to**.

**This is not unique to sabre.

Kestral
Nov 24, 2000

Forum Veteran

Cessna posted:

You're welcome to repost it, just mantion my name or quote me.

Done and done - thanks for the effortpost!

Xiahou Dun posted:

PS longsword is really fun and I recommend trying it, hell yeah. In general, always try a new kind of fencing if you can as long as it's not dangerous or whatever ; I ended up never really getting into a sabre but I'm still glad I tried it for a bit and if someone walked up to me right now and asked if I wanted to mess around for funsies I'd totally say yes*.

*I'd just also get my rear end handed to**.

**This is not unique to sabre.

Seconding this, I greatly enjoyed my time with longsword. It'll also encourage you to do some interesting new routines at the gym, because boy those are not the same muscle groups. Also seconding the "as long as it's not dangerous" part, I never had so many injuries as I did in my time with a pre-HEMA longsword group that was basically just working out of someone's backyard with some printouts of period manuals. Find people who acknowledge that swinging large relatively heavy pieces of metal around at high speeds can be dangerous and who make safety a priority, and it's a great time.

YoursTruly
Jul 29, 2012

Put me in the trash
Recycle Bin
where
I belong.


Much appreciated, thanks for the great posts everyone!

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



I made a thread for fencing in the Olympics forum: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3974420

Unless someone else does first I might repost Cessna's brilliant rundown in there later on.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Kestral posted:

Done and done - thanks for the effortpost!

Seconding this, I greatly enjoyed my time with longsword. It'll also encourage you to do some interesting new routines at the gym, because boy those are not the same muscle groups. Also seconding the "as long as it's not dangerous" part, I never had so many injuries as I did in my time with a pre-HEMA longsword group that was basically just working out of someone's backyard with some printouts of period manuals. Find people who acknowledge that swinging large relatively heavy pieces of metal around at high speeds can be dangerous and who make safety a priority, and it's a great time.

Yeah, there's real problem in the less reputable parts of HEMA with rampant disregard of safety gear, and mistaking hitting harder for being faster.

That said, HEMA is a ton of fun. I've got my broadsword in a happier place now and I'm working on making a hilt for a dirk to go with it:

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

Kestral posted:

Done and done - thanks for the effortpost!

Following up on this:

Homer was knocked out in Table of 32, finished overall 24th.

Oh was knocked out in semi-finals. I don't have really good info here, but it looks like he was done in by an ankle injury.

Szilagyi won his third gold medal in an absolutely brilliant match.

Crazy Achmed
Mar 13, 2001



Hell yeah swords
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcs3OwrkcR4

dupersaurus
Aug 1, 2012

Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

https://twitter.com/80level/status/1428623661796364289?s=21

Pretty cool but also, what… 90% useless?

Cessna
Feb 20, 2013

KHABAHBLOOOM

It's pretty, but I can't see how it would help with training any more than a regular camera replay.

That said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bVL9OG-X4

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Xiahou Dun
Jul 16, 2009
BUTTS






Huh. Did they have a reason to not messing with the opacity for the models of the fencers? It seems like it would be more useful if they didn't block what was going on behind them.

But if nothing else it's probably a really good example to train perception-based software on and it looks, to use a technical term, "sickin' rad as hell".

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