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Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

thrakkorzog posted:

Sorry. I was thinking of Cobra-Khai Dojo 'sweep the the leg' BS. I was watching the Karate Kid the other night. Against a wrestler or an MMA fighter, yeah, someone in a fencing stance would get knocked down pretty quick.
Thats what the sword (and its reach) is for.

Closing the distance enough to knock somebody down while he has up to 1.5 meters of bladed weapon (plus the length of his arms) between himself and you is very hard to impossible to do without sustaning a horrible injury/death in the process (unless the fencer fucks up ofc or you are wearing appropriate armor).

Nektu fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Mar 2, 2015

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Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

ScratchAndSniff posted:

Wait, wait... You can bring a sword to wrestling and MMA matches? Why hasn't anyone told me this???
:)

Or maybe I missed parts of the discussion.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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El Spamo posted:

In terms of bodily harm, the mesur guys really do cut each other's faces up so if anything they're probably pretty close to the realm of practicing combat with the risk of bodily harm. I think they've got lots of rules though like ONLY hitting the head and the equipment is really specialized. Still crazy though.
Well, or not:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUh5exBJXBU&feature=player_detailpage#t=212

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

ImplicitAssembler posted:

So, the overall philosophy in JSA is often not to fight as if your life depended on it, but to be prepared to give up your life in order to defeat the opponent.
Ahh yea, feudalism and its brainwashed warriors that lived to give their lives for their lords.

Today we would just conscript everyone and shoot those that run. Far easier, progress in action.

JaucheCharly posted:

I don't recall seeing a person younger than 40 with a Schmiß (the scar from the Mensur) in the face in the last 15 years. The whole thing degenerated into a subsub culture with very clear deutschnationale or neonazi connotations. Ostracized is probably too strong, but kinda like being tatooed on the face. You can find those guys studying law or medicine usually. They stay within their bubble.
True enough although "neonazis" are generally the plebs of the radical right in germany and would not be found in those circles.

I heard that some historic fencing clubs in germany have to regularly distant themselves from that poo poo and throw out a few troublemakes now and then.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 10:39 on Apr 26, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

HEY GAL posted:

It's not feudalism, it's the late 19th/early 20th century's view of the Japanese past which, hilariously, was filtered through a reverse-weeaboo's idea of what medieval Europe had been like.
Really? I seem to remember something different, but lets take that back to the history thread.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Verisimilidude posted:

It's a lot of slashing at legs and arms, because they're usually the closest target, and getting in close with a knife means your opponent is also in range. A knife is so small it can't easily be blocked off.
As far as I know thats the "right" way to do it - cut/stab the arms until he can no longer use them to wield the knife, then move in.

When unarmed against knife its "run" or as a last resort "get control over the knife at all costs and then win somehow. What do you mean "its sticking in my arm what did I do wrong?". Its GOOD thats its just sticking in your arm.".

If you even know that a knife is in play before you got cut/stabbed a few times of course :shobon:

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

So hey any of y'all seen this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLTcVJGMBkQ

Anybody familiar enough with tulwar or other South Asian martial arts to tell whether he's full of poo poo? because it seems like he is but idk for sure.
Double hits or an opponent who is as fast or even faster than him dont exist in india, so hes perfectly right :colbert:

Nektu fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jun 27, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Siivola posted:

I'm starting to think our club does things super weird when we just hand newcomers steel blunts, go "okay so rule #1 is everyone leaves healthier than they came in" and have them doing controlled pair drills by the end of their first class. Wearing masks when drilling is an absolute rule, but very few people wear gloves.
Depends on how slow you do those drills and how coordinated your partner is. Because gently caress some people.

We usually start beginners with wood. Doubly so because they usually cannot use a steel sword for a whole lesson (its just too heavy).

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Kemper Boyd posted:

Or just go the whole hog and get some gauntlets while at it.
One thing to consider is that metal gloves are a good knuckleduster and will gently caress up your opponent given the chance.

Unless maybe you exclude all the wrestling moves, only use metal if your opponent is clad in metal too.

Verisimilidude posted:

You want the lacrosse gloves. A typical fencing glove may stop you from getting cut or bruised from a foil, saber, or epee hit (though I imagine the guard on the weapon is what really keeps you safe) but for longsword or practically any HEMA-related weapon you'll want something a bit more padded, at least until you feel comfortable enough to use something lighter, or upgrade to something a bit more suited to the weapon (like sparring gloves).
Lighter cloves are useful for technical drills where you dont suffer unwanted contact though. The sword just gets less rusty if your sweaty palms are inside a glove.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Kemper Boyd posted:

Might be a local thing, because around here, I've seen both feders and regular longswords used in tournaments. At least those of my buddies who got gauntlets for sparring say that it was totally worth it for the added protection.
Also, they use federschwerter for sparring which are lighter than swords and flexible (reduced danger of hurting someone with a thrust!).

Especially thrusts are a bitch with solid weapons (even if they have rounded points).

Nektu fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 5, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

Kemper Boyd posted:

Might be a local thing, because around here, I've seen both feders and regular longswords used in tournaments. At least those of my buddies who got gauntlets for sparring say that it was totally worth it for the added protection.
The "ask me about medieval combat" thread had a video of a sword-and-buckler match were a guy broke one of the bones in his opponents arm with a not-even-very-hard stroke.

She kept fighting and won the bout though :)

Still, if your opponent brings a sword, bring appropriate protection....

(Cant find the link atm.)

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Rabhadh posted:

I was told not to duck when sword fightin' as it apparently makes your head an easier target, its a tough habit to break from boxing. Maybe it's different when the ranges are a lot closer, but the longsword guy I was sparing said it was good advice.
Ducking works in boxing, because your opponent has to pull back his hand to attack again (fists are blunt weapons). Not so with swords.

If you duck (maybe against a horizontal attack at head level) your opponent's sword will end up right above your head. Now he only needs to cover some very few centimeters for a thrust against your face or a cut/cleave into your neck or shoulder. An edged weapon does not need force to do its damage, so it doesnt matter that he did not build that much momentum.

Evading attacks is a thing though, but for me it feels more like a matter of playing with distance (and the miscalculation of distance) and sometimes, maybe, sidestepping or twisting out of his line of attack if he is thrusting or attacking vertically.

But if you are squarely in range, the only way to protect yourself is to threaten him so urgently that he needs to abandon his attack and go on the defense instead and/or to bind his sword and work from there.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 6, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Crazy Achmed posted:

I'm short, so ducking into a squat and counterattacking (cut/thrust to the forearm for sabre or epee, thrust to six just under the armpit for foil) is a very viable strategy for me - but only against tall people who aren't expecting it.
I fully appreciate that us historical fencers can learn a LOT about speed from sport fencers, but could you leave his area of influence after you scored your hit before he can smack you back with a long and deep lunge like that one going for his armpit?

Crazy Achmed posted:

For foil, anyway, the "danger zone" is usually roughly when the tips cross - I'm not sure how much this changes for longsword (what is the typical en garde position for that, anyway?) but maybe there's some rough equivalent for you.
I learned that distance as the beginning of the danger zone for longsword too.

Regarding th eguard posiiton, the sources present it roughly like this:

They encourage you to keep changing your en-guard position constantly to keep your opponent from adapting his attack and his defense to your current guard. Each of the basic positions lends itself to attacks from certain directions or to certain types of attacks (thrust, cut). And each basic position lends itself to certain parries.

In the end both parties will keep moving/changing/adapting until one thinks that he can attack into an opening and takes that opportunity (that said, longpoint is a nice and easy position with a lot of flexibility if you are unsure what to do). One (or both fencers) may score/take a hit now. If no clear hit was scored, they will probably be in the bind and continue from there.



Also re: ducking in boxing because Muhammad Ali is just :aaaaa:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSFQrPzSAnE

Nektu fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jul 8, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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dupersaurus posted:

You're planning to do it so that they end up at a distance where they're too close to get to you (say, charging big at you and, whoops, his target is done and he's tripping over you). But we're working with scoring boxes that won't register a second hit after a handful of milliseconds, so, y'know.
If he gets that close in historical fencing, you wrestle him to the ground and/or make-believe-bash-his-head-in with your pommel :)

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

That said, if you look at tournament footage, people don't really do that a whole lot. There's a lot of waiting with the point in line sport fencer style, with no passing steps or other historical oddities. It wins points, I suppose.
Its easy to make a good argument about wasting energy with changing guards while not quite in range.

I dont think its useful to change guards while you wait or move around out of range. It makes more sense to me if you see it as something that happens while you start pressuring your opponent with the preparation for an attack - while you are going out there to look for an attackable opening.
(Disclaimer: Actually executing that in a useful way is a different thing altogether :)).

Siivola posted:

Here's what I think proper longsword tournament fencing should about look like. There's a beautiful exchange at 1:40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiuUBu_k170
Hmm. My trainer would call that "Katapultfechten" aka catapult fencing. They hit sword on sword, then flee from the bind and both pull back to strike again.
In theory that fleeing from the bind (and the pulling back!) leaves the person breaking contact first open for a followthrough by his opponent (distance and so on permitting).

Is that just because of the Federschwerter which dont work well for binding because they just wobble all over the place, or is it taught like that?

Nektu fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Jul 8, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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thewireguy posted:

After I practice the basics, they usually throw in one of these, where you are in a bind, let go of the pommel and reach through to grab it again and throw the other guy. But from watching the big kids spar, things go way to fast for that fancy stuff.
Throws/joint locks and so on are opportunistic (up to a point) in every martial art. poo poo does indeed happen though and you may find yourself in the posiiton to apply one. And if you are good at it, you can absolutely encourage the issue by closing the distance and bringing yourself in a situation where an opportunity will probably arise.

In the context of fencing however: why would you (normally) do that?

Nektu fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jul 12, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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thewireguy posted:

Is it okay to kick? I know I should be asking the people I practice with. And know you are opening yourself up... I think I have too much kung fu poo poo in my head, but seriously, if grappling is okay then is it a free for all? I asked the elder student about trips/Footsweeps and he said it okay, but most likely not the best move. At sword distance it is stupid, but I don't know the rules. These guys are going to Baltimore for a national competition. I have a ton of dumb questions waiting to be beat out of me.
Pushkicks and kicks to the nads are in the sourced afaik. You should probably ask your partner before you try it though :v:
And if you wrestle, why not trip someone? In the end its a rule question and a question about safe training (falling onto your sword hurts).

Nektu fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jul 12, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

Our teacher thinks it's because Italians and Germans used swords of different length:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlLa6VnNRaI
Sounds plausible. Maybe check the sources on (german) langes messer and sword/buckler to see what they did with shorter swords though.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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ScratchAndSniff posted:

Edit: Completely unrelated, but are there any good books on dussack? Everything I see out there seems to use the focus more on messer, but I am more curious how the old "2 guys with clubs, first one to bash the other's face into pulp wins" proto-fencing worked.
Meyer has some stuff about dussaks:
Amazon Link

And afaik dussaks were used as messer-like training instruments for injury-free citizen sports fencing. Thats probably the reason that you mostly find messer stuff.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jul 20, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzEwsnkMR2c

I love the way these guys fence. I'm not sure how good they are as I've never met them in person or seen them fight outside of their school, but it's just so fluid and snappy. It really inspires me to work more from the bind and to grab for my opponent's weapon.
On which sources is their style based on? I tried reading their website, but im too dumb for spanish...

Nektu fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Aug 1, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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inscrutable horse posted:

So I'm a huge nerd who's decided to pick up HEMA (longsword) to stave off cabin fever at my new job. I will be utterly alone (well, with 10 other people) on an island in the middle of nowhere for a year, with an embarrassing amount of free time. Considering that I'm an absolute beginner, how should I practice this stuff? I've been looking at various articles and fechtbücher on the net, and together with this thread, I get the idea that footwork and general fitness are vitally important, so that's something I'd like to know more about. But then there's stuff like stances/guards/whatever the terminology is - how much of that can I practice on my own? Is it actually feasible? And then there's the unknown unknowns that I don't even know to ask about!

So how about it? I know I'm in totally over my head, but can you goons teach me swim (metaphorically)?
If you are a complete beginner to martial arts and spend a year training all alone with a few books as your help there is a very high probability that you will aquire a shitload of nasty habits that you will have to unlearn again once you find a trainer. Its basically impossible to learn a martial art from a book.

If you already have a solid background in martial arts, go for it. Without a training partner you will only aquire the very basics, but at least you will know your drills after a year.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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inscrutable horse posted:

Let's put it this way: I know that the pointy end should generally point away from me.
:)

Use that year to learn the theory, nomenclature, read and use online forums and sperg about equipment and so on.

Regarding physical training, imo your best bet is that one of the other 9 persons is a martial artist - train the stuff he is doing. Even if its not swords, it will probably prepare you far better for swords in the future than anything you can do as a complete beginner by yourself.

Also use that year to become really, really fit.

inscrutable horse posted:

Teaching of any kind is, I'm afraid, pretty much impossible I live in the Faroe Islands, and after months of exhaustive investigation, I've found out that there is no one in the country who has practiced any sort of sword-based martial art, bet it Olympic, historical or JSA. This is kinda what inspired me to start this in the first place - my ambition, once I'm off The Hermit Island of Desolation and Despair, is to start recruiting other interested individuals so that we can start a club. From there I hope to get it recognized as an "official" sport or something, and get my filthy hands on some in order to invite teachers over here for a short period. Well, those are my "professional" ambitions - personally, I just want to swing a sword around like a huge nerd.
Oh welp, that is looking bad. Maybe you can use vacationtime to go to the continent and train there for a few weeks each year to get you started/keep you going at least?

That said, a complete beginner to martial arts will not be able to absorpt much of relevance in a few weeks. Learn any other martial art (bonus points if you actually do fights in it), and revisit swords later. Maybe someone on that island does some form of stick fighting - its weapon based, and even if its very different from swordsplay, you will aquire a shitload of qualities that will be very useful for learning other weapon systems.

If you insist on basically starting on your own with books only, or even a few more beginners as partners, the quality of the stuff you will do will stay abmyssal for a long, long time. It will probably be fun though :)

Nektu fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Aug 13, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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I guess inscrutable horse could just post videos of his work, and I bet that the thread would be very willing to help him out with critique and advice.

Its just so much harder to explain stuff verbally only...

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

That sounds like something you should never do ever. As far as I know, there are no textbook examples by any of the historical masters that calls for a jumping cut, let alone a one-handed leaping cut that you loosen your grip to complete. Why not just cut with your off hand? It's already holding the bottom half of the grip!
I learned that attack too, in both variants (offhand and leading hand) - although I dont know the source where its coming from (could ask though). Whether you use the offhand or the leading hand depends on the direction you are cutting (try it out, choosing the one or the other comes natural, at least for me).

That attack however only makes sense if the other person is out of reach, relaxes and opens himself up because of that, or makes a serious error like swinging his sword behind his back (so basically never in a duel situation).

Sliding out to the pommel and moving in quickly gives you a LOT of sudden reach. But if the other person is not completely surprised/out of position, you will pay for trying that poo poo.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Aug 23, 2015

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Nektu posted:

I learned that attack too, in both variants (offhand and leading hand) - although I dont know the source where its coming from (could ask though). Whether you use the offhand or the leading hand depends on the direction you are cutting (try it out, choosing the one or the other comes natural, at least for me).

That attack however only makes sense if the other person is out of reach, relaxes and opens himself up because of that, or makes a serious error like swinging his sword behind his back (so basically never in a duel situation).

Sliding out to the pommel and moving in quickly gives you a LOT of sudden reach. But if the other person is not completely surprised/out of position, you will pay for trying that poo poo.
Following up on the useability of that attack:

Someone tested light, off-hand cuts against pig feet that were bare or covered in light armor (leather/gambeson).

Result spoiler: :cry:


http://www.myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=9247&view=next

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

At my level it just feels like two completely contradictory requirements
But thats the interesting part? :confused:

Siivola posted:

where I don't have to fence like I'm trying to murder an armed drunkard.
Well, that too.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

Well, you're not wrong. It's not like it's impossible to fit them together, it's the whole point of being a good swordsman.

I dunno, I'm just at a loss how to get there, I guess. Maybe I should book some solo sessions with a coach or something.
Well, talking about longsword, Lichtenauer strongly stresses the need to fence with power/focus.

On the one hand that can mean pure strength (that you beat through your opponent's defense), on the other hand it just means the stuff you said: "people insist that you should go for the head and the torso and really commit to attacks".

If your attacks are too weak/have no conviction behind them or are simply off-target or hitting the strong points of his defense and thus have no chance of hitting your opponent, he can ignore them at leasure and counter you while you are busy doing those ineffective attempts to hit him. You do not threaten him, he does not need to react and can instead concentrate on acting and you lose.

In the end the way to stay safe is to build a good offense and above all to keep initative. Its a blend of strength, speed, timing, distance, recognizing openings, closing/avoiding openings on your part and having/keeping/regaining initiative that is quite hard to learn.

Thinking "ok, he did that, now I do that" is good for training and learning. During sparring you need to enforce "ok, I do that and now he has to do that" upon your opponent above all (which is obviously easier said then done).

Nektu fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jun 6, 2016

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Cybernetic Crumb

Siivola posted:

German style is entirely reasonable a way to fence but it contains this implicit expectation that your opponent is a reasonable person who likes breathing, instead of a morose drunken Finn who just wants to shank you and doesn't give a poo poo about your sword.
This is true for our modern sparring, but I doubt it was true historically.

At some point the historical usage of swords would have had to rely on their man-stopping power. There is no magical way of being inside the weaponrange of your opponent and staying ahead forever. But in the end you just have to stay ahead long enough. That drunken moron would not have had the choice of ignoring your hits, because they would have damaged his body which would have stopped to function properly (making it harder for him to hit you further).

The particulars of that however are basically impossible to reproduce or predict nowadays. Discussion aka "I hit you that would TOTALLY have killed you and that counter of yours would not have happened" are completely useless because it apparently is surprisingly hard to predict the exact effect that a hit with a bladed weapon would have had (I mean, we are talking about fencing here - if a deadly wound allows one participant to stay active even for only a few seconds more there is still a lot of time for him to hit back).

Siivola posted:

Well, the thing is, at our school we do Fiore, and our interpretation starts from the assumption that parrying is good because you can then riposte. Fiore's book is basically just parries, follow-ups and counter-techniques. Furthermore, the Flower of Battle doesn't really contain explicit tactical advice like what you describe
Ok, I can see why that might cause frustrating sparring situations.

IM_DA_DECIDER posted:

That doesn't really make sense to me unless you're talking about real life swordfights. In the latter case, either my opponent fearlessly attacks me and gets parry riposted, which is good, or he doesn't attack me at all, which is also good because nobody is getting stabbed. Also I can probably run faster than some dude carrying a sword.
You think to defensively for historical fencing. What if YOU want to kill that person? (That sentiment is very, VERY historical).

Nektu fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jun 7, 2016

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

In my eyes the art of fencing is the art of defending yourself with a weapon (not necessarily a sword) against someone else with a weapon.
What you describe is not only fencing, its basically every traditional martial art. Fighting completely unarmed (in contrast to unarmed skills that supplement a weapon) is a rather new development and wasn't really a thing for the largest part of human history (outside of sport competitions of course).

Verisimilidude posted:

Hit and don't get hit. Realism and intent play a part in that
All of that (well, apart from realism) is in sports fencing too. Also as long as people dont start to use longswords in earnest again, there is no realism in longsword fencing either.

If you want realism, go to the phillipines and start selling drugs. Someone will propably show you a realistic application of macheties or something.

Siivola posted:

I'm on a hot take roll today, so here's one for you guys: The "reality" we glorify in HEMA is entirely invented based on fragmented scholarship, pop history and movies.
Also this.

Siivola posted:

Haha no, it's just ~the duel~. The same duel I'd fight with a sidesword, sabre or one of those fabulous dueling shields. Whoever doesn't get hit wins. :dawkins101:
Hey, thats totally historical. The whole feder fencing is just historical sports fencing introduced by some german guy (Joachim Meyer) who was pissed off that the glorious german longsword became outdated because everybody wanted to use those darn foreign rapiers for serious work (even he suggested to use rapiers for self defense).

HEY GAL posted:

we may not fight like they fought, but what's preventing you from training like they trained? that's what hema is, in my opinion
Honestly, this is the best definition there is. I still refuse to dress up though.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Aug 27, 2016

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

According to Wiktenauer, instead of revitalizing longsword Meyer was trying to adapt the old sources on the sword to the legislation and the fencing guild rules.
This is basically what I wanted to say. Longswords gradually fell out of general use and he wanted to keep the tradition alive (if only in the context of those fencing guild competitions).

Siivola posted:

I think (but can't confirm) feders predate Meyer quite a bit, as does fencing with them for sport.
Interesting. Which fighting system did they use with the feders before meyer introduced his Liechtenauer version?

Nektu
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dupersaurus posted:

If you want to talk about killing reasons, what I've been told is that the skull is generally too hard for the dueling foil (a fairly light blade) to reliably puncture, and the parts of the head that are vulnerable are hard to hit. Easier to hit the torso, and easier to get a crippling shot on it.
Surprisingly that whole killing thing might not be as easy as you imagine it:

(:nms: if you cant stand bloody descriptions of historcal duels and medical descriptions of the effects of bladed weapons. Thankfully no images).
The Dubious Quick Kill, part 1
The Dubious Quick Kill, part 2

Modern knife or axe/folding-spade fighting systems are very, very specific about where you need to cut or stab to kill someone. I guess a large or very large blade would mitigrate that need for accuracy to a certain degree, but in the very end, the reason why our modern HEMA will never be anything other than a sport is that that knowledge is not part of the curriculum.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

In other news: I got my bitchin' gauntlets after nearly a year of waiting and worrying the dude stole my money.


What do you plan to use them for? Would you mind uploading some pictures of them while you wear them?

Because if those are actual fingered gloves that provide enough protection for longsword sparring you can't not post the source...

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Uziel posted:

I was doing it for sequences for a drill, things like ribbon cuts and oberhau, oberhau, short edge cut from the right, repeat from left, etc
The point of keeping your sword on the move is to keep your opponent unclear about your intentions and to set up possible attacks while not exposing you to his attacks.
Doing that well is as hard to learn as the vor :shobon:.

The "moving like a robot" thing probably just means that you are still doing "technique 1", "technique 2", "technique 3" and are unable to just flow from one guard/attack to the next in an appropriate fashion. This is normal and again, lots of practice is needed to move more fluently.

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Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

Practice Cuts + Thrusts:

First 5 of each cut is done slowly to check for proper body mechanics, last 10 are done at speed, listening for clear and distinct tachikaze. Last 5 are done with step.

15 scheitelhau (cuts from above the head, to opponent's head)
15 scheitelhau (cuts from above the head, all the way down)
15 oberhau from the left (cuts from above the left shoulder)
15 oberhau from the right (cuts from above the right shoulder)
15 unterhau from the right (ascending cuts from the right)
15 unterhau from the left (ascending cuts from the left)
15 krumphau (diagonal cut ending in crossed hands, to opponent's forearms)
15 schielhau, absetzen variant (short-edge cut ending in open arms, to set opponent's sword to the side, and then thrusting to opponent's face)
15 mittelhau (horizontal cut from the waist, alternating between sides)
15 zwerchau (horizontal cut from above the shoulder, alternating between sides)
15 zornhau ort (short cut to take center, followed by thrust to the face)
10 thrust from fluge, with gathering step into lunge
Yea, I do something like that too: I try to do at least all the meisterhäue, normally in some combinations that I make up on the spot.

I also concentrate on footwork (sometimes as standalone, normally as part of the meisterhäue program) and use a wooden pole as target for accuracy and distance training.

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Siivola posted:

Guys. Guys, hey guys. When you're fencing longsword, do you ever get the feeling your kit's rubbish?

Neyman's got you covered. Now you can dress up as Batman while you fence.
Since the gambesons that are sold as fencing jackets are garbage anyhow (the plate above them is missing) I think that that kit is awesome.

They missed the chance to make a memorable codpiece though, instead its just that lame crouchplate thingy.

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Jul 4, 2007

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Perestroika posted:

While a sharpened sabre would undoubtedly be way more effective, I guess even a blunt one could still be reasonably dangerous in a pinch when swung from horseback.
It absolutely is. Steel weapons are scary as gently caress if you are not wearing armor, even without a cutting edge. Steel is 9 times denser than tissue/bones and combined with the mighty lever and not insignificant mass that the longer sabers/swords/... provide the shattering of bones is easy and even caving in heads would probably not be that hard.

Perestroika posted:

It became such a common practice that there's actually a weird (but possibly apocryphal) anecdote about an instance where people went against it. A Union cavalry colonel by the name of Minty ordered his brigade to properly sharpen all their sabres because, well, duh. But when the Confederates learned about it, they threw a complete shitfit. They decried the use of sharpened blades as barbaric and against proper modern gentlemanly warfare, and threatened to immediately execute any prisoner found in possession of a sharp sabre. :shepface:
I read a story from the napoleonic wars somewhere. Apparently trained infantry had no special problem standing in a line of battle while shooting/getting shot at (because the weapons where so inaccurate). However, infights with sabers/bayonetts put real fear into them and made many a formation rout.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Jul 10, 2017

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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DandyLion posted:

The alternative seemingly has to be more in line with the assumption that there was a good reason they avoided most protective gear, and I believe its likely related to the efficacy of training therein.
:shrug:

The example given by Siivola above your post shows that they (at least in the specific geographic area/timeframe he specified) avoided protective gear due to questions of honour, not efficiency.

I guess the question you ask is a nice research topic.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Sep 12, 2017

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Schneider Heim posted:

Trying to learn the longsword (HEMA) with a lightsaber because an actual sword is hard to find and our law enforcement is awful (lol Philippines). It's pretty fun but I do most of my learning alone since it's hard to meet up with my friends (who also own lightsabers and are trying to learn actual fencing with it, not Star Wars twirly stuff).
:shrug: Why not use a lightsaber for solo practice? It should be long enough though and you absolutely need to attach a crossguard.

An alternative could be plastic longsword simulators (some of which are actually a surprisingly good compromise between the "real" feeling and safety when it comes to free fencing). Everything made from plastic is of course far to light. But its better than nothing.

Maybe a wooden simulator made from some dense wood? You can build those yourself.

Although YMMV: even though plastic/wooden swords CLEARLY are made from plastic/wood , they also CLEARLY are weapons simulators so your law enforcement might still get triggered.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jun 14, 2018

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P-Mack posted:

Plastic is fine...
I feel that the lack of the proper weight actually is a big deal because its very easy to move a light blade quickly and accurately even with bad technique.
Doing that with a heavy blade is another game altogether. But eh, some tradeoffs need to be made.

P-Mack posted:

Plastic is fine, they suck at simulating binds but that's not an issue for solo practice.
Dont laugh, but we fixed that issue by just adding masking tape to our plastic simulators.
I mean, they are still kinda wobbly in the bind of course, but the masking tape adds enough friction to allow feeling the direction of the pressure.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jun 14, 2018

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Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

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Verisimilidude posted:

I have the konings, but they’re too large for my hands. Trying to sell them currently.

As for the spes heavies, I know they’re a good choice but they’re too large and bulky and I don’t like the maneuverability. I’m thinking of making something similar, with a padded comfortable glove and kydex plating, but with better rivets, slimmer profile, and better articulation.
I'm still continuouly salivating about these here: http://progauntlet.nl/

Apparently the first beta version proved itself in a HEMA tourney. Now they "just" have to provide a working production model.

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