Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

«‹›5 »

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Yeah my club had a bunch of kids competing in the last few days, so pretty much the bulk of the contingent was still there. Sounded like some people got caught in the lock-down, but it wasn't clear if the convention center was within it or if they were elsewhere at the time.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2016 14:31

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 00:35

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

Foil is the obvious choice for pro-tier play, gotta keep your equip weight down so you can get that fast roll

The +1 to chandelier swinging is boss, though

# ¿ Jul 16, 2016 02:52

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Yeah I've had luck before hammering the screwdriver into the screw, but that might require having some slot remaining.

In other news, the FIE has released a fencing game. It's amusing enough even though it's a weird amalgamation of the three weapons.

# ¿ Jul 19, 2016 01:13

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

Actually, no it didn't! Sports is hard.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/25/sports/olympics/rio-russia-ban-doping.html?_r=0

Basically, we'll find out this week what the FIE decides to do. Given that they have two Russian fencers on their homepage; I'm going to assume that Russian fencers will compete at Rio.

It's been confirmed that the Russians will be fencing.

KyloWinter posted:

Does this thread not welcome HEMA people

Pretty sure HEMA outnumbers us sporters at this point

# ¿ Jul 27, 2016 19:25

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Probably not. But I think NBC streams everything online if you have a cable login to give them.

# ¿ Aug 2, 2016 23:23

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I think "sportify" is generally code word for "don't be like sport fencing where you kill yourself multiple times a bout but still get the point". Wusses.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2016 14:18

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I had a sketch of one written up awhile ago, but I don't know if I still have it.

# ¿ Aug 5, 2016 14:37

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

At the very least I can make sure that the gif of Choi repeating stabbing his own butt with a foil is there.

That's really all it needs

# ¿ Aug 6, 2016 04:01

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Future Days posted:

It's always an "I don't like thing" kind of issue. I don't see a reasob why HEMA/Classical fencing and modern fencing can't coexist as two different things that, sometimes, cater to very different kinds of people. TBH in 18 years of fencing I haven't heard anything bad against HEMA, but HEMA fencers love to bash modern fencing for the above mentioned issue.

I betcha the types of HEMA people that complain about sport fencing also complain about the type of HEMAers that are fine with sport fencing (and are probably on the path of sportifying HEMA). Being self-masturbatory about playing with fake swords "the way it was meant to be" is just another permutation of that insufferable nerd indignation you see everywhere else on the internet. Those of us that are reasonable (sport and HEMA) recognize that we aren't actually playing with swords, so it's okay if we don't always (if at all, in sport's case) treat them like swords.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 14:00

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

KyloWinter posted:

Sport fencers should pretend they're playing with real swords even though they're not because I want to suck all the fun out of sport fencing.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 18:24

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Epee is, if anything, the most spectator-friendly of the weapons: get a light, get a point, no questions asked. As long as you avoid non-combativity issues (speaking of fighting like you have a real sword). Foil and saber are hard for non-fencers to follow -- and can even be hard for fencers to follow -- but so is trying to watch any sport that you've never seen before (ex, trying to get an American to watch cricket).

Fencing on TV would do well with a big investment in commentary, but probably more that we can afford to throw. Commentators that know what they're talking about and can communicate it would be a godsend; show the ref better so it's easier to follow the calls; show replays from the start of the action, not just the hit, etc. There's so much that could be done before you even have to start talking about changing fundamental rules.

# ¿ Aug 26, 2016 21:21

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Making it more like "real" fencing (whatever that means) doesn't do anything towards making it easier for people that know nothing about it. The happenings of a HEMA bout mean nothing to me, but that doesn't mean it's fatally flawed. I don't understand the classical mindset, and that's fine.

tl;dr there are many types of fencing for everybody's inclinations, and none are wrong because in the end it's all just a game. All fencing is and always has been an artificial abstraction; the only time it's not is in a battle, and I for one won't be doing that.

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Aug 27, 2016

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 04:19

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If you're not in immediate peril of life or limb, yes it's artificial. You can be performing your drills according to the books of the great masters, but if you screw something up and get pretend disembowled... well let's just try it again. No matter how much you try and push it out, it'll always be there in the back of your mind, the knowledge that you'll be leaving practice alive. We're not emulating actual fights, we're playing the practice manuals

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 05:00

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

All of this talk about the histories, what we know and don't, and how things evolved? Really cool!

Watching the longsworders at my club? Really cool!

Would I be sport fencing if it was more like classical fencing? Not a chance!

(But as annoying as this discussion has been at times, it's still been a million times better than anything on fencing.net)

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 17:38

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Siivola posted:

The earliest sources on the longsword (Fiore and early Liechtenauer glosses) all do include fighting in armour (and mounted), but it's always a separate section. Once we get to the 16th century, armoured combat starts disappearing from the books for some reason. I'm not even going to guess why, I have no idea. It's not like armour goes out of fashion yet, the coolest suits get made in the 1500's. Some 15th century manuscripts get reproduced wholesale in the 16th, but new, original material seems to focus on the sword in plain clothes. It probably mirrors the fencing habits of the people buying the books, but the scholarship into that is kinda spotty.

But if you mean why unarmoured longsword is popular today, it's because we're all flat broke and can't afford properly fitted harnesses. (Because all our money goes into padded jackets and fencing mask overlays, natch. )

By the 1500s crossbows and early guns have pretty much made full suits show pieces, which is why they get so fancy: they're really just for prestige at that point.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 21:26

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I've been hearing that the RBoD is great for Y12, at least

# ¿ Aug 27, 2016 22:19

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If you want to talk about killing reasons, what I've been told is that the skull is generally too hard for the dueling foil (a fairly light blade) to reliably puncture, and the parts of the head that are vulnerable are hard to hit. Easier to hit the torso, and easier to get a crippling shot on it.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2016 17:11

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Oh yeah, I make no claims to how long it'll take to kill someone by stabbing them through the torso (just look at the many stories of people continuing on after being shot by guns), but as that first link alludes to, you've got better odds there than the head:

quote:

After the later received a rapier blow which bounced off his head, Bazanez is said to have received an unspecified number of thrusts which, according to the account, "entered" the body.

# ¿ Sep 2, 2016 21:00

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Out of town for the week, so went to stab the locals. Bunch of epeeists, but it was still fun. If you find yourself in Nashville and want to fence, Music City FC is a good visit.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 04:08

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I can't speak to the quality of the epee (I just beat some of them up in foil), but it's a nice club.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2016 13:40

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

"Attack arrives, touch left."
"No parry?"
"Mal parre" "En garde."

B...b...but sir! His arm was bent!

# ¿ Sep 26, 2016 20:57

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Nah, it's attack left all the way in foil, too. Even if you want to argue simultaneous, right loses all pretense of priority with the search.

Judging the priority of cats: ask me about fencing

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Sep 27, 2016

# ¿ Sep 27, 2016 13:37

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

How much of your foot is in contact with the ground is pretty irrelevant to how much power you can put into it, anyway. My heels never touches the ground and I can easily drag my back foot in a big lunge. You're going to be most effective when you're the most comfortable, wherever that is. There are few things that are absolutely wrong (knee passing the foot at the end of a lunge being the only one I can think of).

No idea what the quarte/quinte questions refers to.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2016 21:07

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Neon Belly posted:

Parry 4/parry 5. No one uses parry 5 in foil. Your instructor is doing a parry 4.

Kinda thought so.

Parry 5 in foil is sort of a high 6 (in contrast to saber's). I guess it's really only of use against poor shoulder flicks.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2016 21:45

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Siivola posted:

That's a bit peculiar because he himself admits to doing something 5-like, pronating the hand.

Pronating the hand while in the area of 4 is 3, not 5. Although that's not to say that you can't pronate your hand in 4, and most people probably do.

Siivola posted:

But eh, we're just a university-level team.

There are some very good university coaches. There are also many university coaches with "interesting" ideas about fencing.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2016 22:21

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Doh my bad, I see it now. Guess I was taught it wrong.

# ¿ Oct 3, 2016 23:25

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

I honestly have no idea about what quinte/5 is in foil now - I've just googled it and ended up even more confused than before. There seem to be a bunch of arguments over whether it's a high or lowline parry, and even if it's tip up or tip down. Can anyone enlighten me?

I have seen some people pull off a sabre-ish quinte/5 in foil, sweeping upwards but keeping the hand lower than you would in sabre since head isn't target, and the blade angled towards the opponent instead of more perpendicular to the piste. You can riposte from here in to your opponent's outside line under their arm. Kind of like a sideways version of that prime/1 parry with the flicky riposte, used as an emergency "oh poo poo sweep across the entire torso dammit" parry versus people attacking to high line with a relatively high hand position.

My coach has demonstrated it as about a mid-point between 6 and a saber 5 -- covering the weapon shoulder instead of the head -- but he doesn't actively teach it. I've used it as shoulder flick defense in certain situations; either as a second-intention (say, going for a counter-riposte while still in the lunge), or if somebody is really telegraphing the flick in the march. A good flick is going to get past it pretty easy, though, and if you go there too soon it's easy for them to change the line.

# ¿ Oct 4, 2016 15:36

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Re-discovered some pictures I took a few years ago. I started fencing back when in my dad's circa-1970s gear, and took some comparisons with my modern stuff. Good old vinyl mask lining.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2016 18:39

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

Such a tiny bib!

Anyone go to Detroit this weekend? I didn't work it and am curious how the rule changes were being interpreted, especially the last minute sabre change.

Quoting one of our coaches

quote:

The refs from what I can see are playing it safe and not calling too tight attack/counterattack or mail-parry. They are calling hand mistakes and short riposte pretty tight.

# ¿ Oct 11, 2016 03:24

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Instead of back foot on the en guard line, they made a new line for saber that's like a meter or something closer.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2016 03:49

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Neon Belly posted:

Is this a joke?

Nope

quote:

In accordance with the FIE, markings will be placed on all strips for national events beginning at the October North American Cup (Oct. 7-10 in Detroit) and will be 3 meters apart (1.5 meters on either side of the center line). Per the FIE clarification, fencers will be 3m apart and will not be required to have the back foot in front of the original on guard line. All sanctioned USA Fencing tournaments will be required to mark strips used for saber beginning on Nov. 1.

So it's half a meter closer on each side.

# ¿ Oct 12, 2016 16:02

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

UGH I had to fence epee tonight. And it was fun :barf:

# ¿ Oct 21, 2016 03:59

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I think just about all manufacturers have removable padding masks somewhere in their line at this point, if the xchange price scares you off; Absolute Fencing's doesn't even break $100. With LP you're paying for the bib swapping and their cooling tech (but it is by far the best mask I've ever tried).

otoh, I don't think I'd explicitly spend for a washable lame. At least, spend that $$$ on a lame for the other benefits of a quality lame. All you really need to do to wash a lame is give it a bath with some woolite occasionally. A foil lame, at least, isn't taking the same gross damage as your base gear is.

# ¿ Oct 24, 2016 13:58

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Fat Samurai posted:

After a decade or so of bumbling around small towns I've finally moved to a big city where I can do nerd poo poo. I've always been interested in fencing, but at 35 I'm wondering if I'm too old to start. How demanding is the sport, reflex-wise? Half of the time I can't decide who hit whom in a match, but maybe the Olympics finals are not a good sample

The veteran competition divisions start at 40 so you've got a good five years to train. From what I hear, vet fencing is fantastic.

# ¿ Oct 25, 2016 17:24

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

strangemusic posted:

I had an epee tournament this weekend, woooo! I didn't place super well - made it to the Round of 16 in the (pretty large) bracket, but not further. I'm happy with that, though: the guy who beat me went on to take silver in the whole event. The experience taught me one thing: holy poo poo I am bad at infighting. There were matches in pools that I could have walked away with handily had I not hosed up a bunch of second/third efforts in close. After the initial lunge/extension or parry/disengage/whatever, I just go totally and I have to figure out how to make that work better.

Infighting does involve being :flaccid:

Once you finish that lunge be ready to relax your shoulder and arm. And make sure you're not over committing with the attack

# ¿ Oct 31, 2016 23:32

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Siivola posted:

PBT's regular foils. They're half the price of the FIE ones, will a FIE blade really last twice as long?

Any blade is liable to break at any point, but in the long run you'll probably more time out of FIEs. That said, though, I don't think I really get much more time out of my FIE Vnitis than I did my non-FIE STMs.

But since you're just starting off and don't know what you want, you might be better off getting a few cheaper blades from different manufacturers and figuring out what you like in a blade, then start spending good money on blades with those qualities. You also have to factor in how much you're fencing; if you're only fencing a night a week, then the durability difference probably doesn't really matter.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2016 16:43

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Was he parrying with the off arm, or something more like the local guy I regularly card for grabbing the opponent's blade with his of hand?

# ¿ Nov 22, 2016 01:07

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If you judge them to have gone off the side of the strip first, then they're losing a meter and going off of the end of the strip, anyway. I guess as a theoretical exercise you might give side of the strip priority since it's a stricter boundary (any foot off versus both feet off)

Edit: Yup

USAF Rulebook posted:

t.28.1
If a competitor crosses one of the lateral boundaries of the strip with one or two feet, he
must retreat one meter from the point where he left the strip, and if he goes off the strip
during an attack, he must return to the position he occupied when he started his attack
and then retreat a further meter

So once that first foot crosses the lateral boundary, you're on notice for the purposes of t.26.2, so if you're not making an action at that point, you're toast.

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Nov 30, 2016

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 19:01

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

What does it not being part of the piste matter for? What's the loophole? Does the lateral boundary technically stop at the end line?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 20:02

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ Apr 19, 2024 00:35

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Future Days posted:

That's the point. It might seem a matter of common sense, but there's nothing written about it on the rulebook. Most fencers, even world-class ones, only "know" the rules when they work in their favor, especially when they're being ref'd by a friendly-looking skinny twenty-something year old guy. It was one of the most satisfying yellow cards I've ever issued

Ah, now it makes sense. It's stupid, but it makes sense.

Siivola posted:

Wait, what's the argument here? That if you go off-piste exactly diagonally, you step over neither the side nor the back, and therefore go neither off the piste nor a metre backwards (and off the piste)?

What do they expect does happen?

If the lateral boundary ends at the end line, then you can have one foot off of the end line (which is allowed), and move it laterally to where ever since the lateral boundary no longer exists.

# ¿ Nov 30, 2016 20:49

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

«‹›5 »