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The only world where Kumb is scum is if he's a godfather and was immune to the cult conversion from d1. I can see this happening. The psychologist PR is not a good 'counter' to the cult recruiter role. It'd be better off if it were something that restored the original PR. Instead it's like a crappy doctor.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:28
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Rascyc posted:No wait this is the right game, I am an arsonist. You never once mentioned Quid or Capps and now you're claiming to have visited the both NK targets on the first two nights. That's a pretty insane coincidence. Are you afraid of getting watched when you killed them and this is your excuse?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:29
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The only world where Mein is scum is the one where we think he actually 'scumhammered' like Asiina pointed out. So my guess for scum is something like: f_v, followed by Kumb, and then probably a toss up between Allen / Asiina. Anyway good luck town, I'll keep refreshing the thread to comment on stuff. Hanging me here is most assuredly a loss. I'm guessing that argument is completely pointless though if there are 1-2 cultists running around.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:30
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Maybe the game never had a scum team, maybe it was just SK/cult. Mein, your thoughts?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:32
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Also the deal with Asiina is that she was either the n2 NK and was protected by Clock, or she was the scum NK'er that night. I feel she's kind of genuine in her VT frustration, maybe. It'd be good cover for her getting jailed n2 though and her failing the NK. This is probably the most 'useless' I've seen a town Asiina though, whereas it's pretty much her standard scum MO to not help.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:33
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Maybe the game never had a scum team, maybe it was just SK/cult.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:34
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fiery_valkyrie posted:You never once mentioned Quid or Capps and now you're claiming to have visited the both NK targets on the first two nights. That's a pretty insane coincidence.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:35
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For my money, it's f_v today and probably Asiina tomorrow, night actions depending.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:37
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Also that last line of 'afraid of getting watched' is completely bunk because if I wanted to dodge watchers, I'd just douse people and not ignite until much later in the game
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Jan 20, 2015 04:37
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Rascyc posted:Also that last line of 'afraid of getting watched' is completely bunk because if I wanted to dodge watchers, I'd just douse people and not ignite until much later in the game Except I don't think you're an arsonist, just a flat out SK. You visited the NK target on N1 and N2 (and N3 in my opinion).
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Jan 20, 2015 04:39
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Except I don't think you're an arsonist, just a flat out SK. You visited the NK target on N1 and N2 (and N3 in my opinion). Yeah, he totes killed two people N1, makes sense. Oh wait.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:40
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Clockwork Gadget posted:Yeah, he totes killed two people N1, makes sense. Don't put words in my mouth. He said he visited Quid, and Quid died. He said he visited Capps and Capps died.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:42
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I mean, your argument is that he is claiming here, now, where he would surely lose the game as SK for claiming third party, in order to try to keep the idea that scum exist around because??? You're flailing.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:42
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It's literally the same thing, they both kill peeps.. EIther way there's no reason for me to be afraid of watchers. I literally cannot win the game at this point, so there's no reason for me to be afraid of watchers. Like if I were on the other end of this argument, I would be saying: "Ras, what guarantee do we have that you haven't doused people n2 and n3 and those NKs were the scum NKs, and leaving you up now means you get to ignite 2 more people tonight" to which I would say: "if that were the case, I would have to be under pressure of a possible lynch to be motivated to claim what I've just claimed and still manage that play, in a game where I can probably just let one of lurkers or the d1 melt downer hang"
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Jan 20, 2015 04:43
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Clockwork Gadget posted:I mean, your argument is that he is claiming here, now, where he would surely lose the game as SK for claiming third party, in order to try to keep the idea that scum exist around because??? You're flailing. Why would he know there is no scum team? If he's a SK (which is exactly what he just claimed) then he has no reason to know what the rest of the game setup is, and the additional NK on N1 would be a mystery to him.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:44
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N1 Ras visits Quid, Quid dies. N2 Ras visits Capps, Capps dies N3 Ras visits FV, who is protected, no NK. How much more obvious can it get?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:46
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Why is this "existence of a scum team" even a topic, wtc
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Jan 20, 2015 04:47
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fiery_valkyrie posted:N1 Ras visits Quid, Quid dies.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:49
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Your options are: cult - very unlikely because recruiter is going to recruit. A vanilla cult has no Night Kill, that's the challenge of the role. If it's a special variant that's given an NK, then you have to accept that Capps was able to recruit AND night kill on n1. Extremely unlikely. night vig - would have claimed by now (They should have claimed d2 if they had any mafia experience at all) scum - DING DING DING
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Jan 20, 2015 04:51
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Rascyc posted:Your options are: So scum killed PMom and you killed Quid and Capps?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:53
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If you didn't kill Quid, who did? You say scum killed PMom, so they couldn't have killed Quid. Do you expect us to believe that another person visited and killed Quid on the same night you targeted him?
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Jan 20, 2015 04:54
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The number of town power roles in the game makes me feel like it's undeniably an SK, cult, scum combo. Also, f_v, if you're right and there's no scum team, then in my mind your broken masonry makes you prime suspect #1 for recruited for cult. So, either way, get lynched. ##vote f_v
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Jan 20, 2015 04:54
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fiery_valkyrie posted:Why would he know there is no scum team? If he's a SK (which is exactly what he just claimed) then he has no reason to know what the rest of the game setup is, and the additional NK on N1 would be a mystery to him. So look at it from my PoV as an arsonist/SK: on n2 I killed Capps, and on n3 I tried to kill f_v. Only 1 NK happened on those nights, and Clock claimed he jailed Asiina on n2 and f_v on n3. Guess who said Asiina was scum on d2 once it became obvious Clock had misunderstood his PR. This is why I was pressing Clock because as a doctor, nothing made sense to me given I knew I was responsible for two of the NKs. Rascyc posted:##vote asiina Rascyc posted:follow me ans i assure you we kill a scum The alternative world is that I've built this entire gameplan/narrative since d1 only to disassemble at lylo just to laugh at your faces. That's not the case. I just think this scum team does not deserve a win, so here I am giving town all the answers.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:55
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fiery_valkyrie posted:If you didn't kill Quid, who did? You say scum killed PMom, so they couldn't have killed Quid. Do you expect us to believe that another person visited and killed Quid on the same night you targeted him? ??? Rascyc posted:I'm pretty sure this is lylo so town can't lynch me and I'm giving you guys a bone because I feel genuinely bad for you bros. If it helps I've been making a point to aim at people who I think are scum or at least should die (quidnose for his waffling d1, capps on d2 for his weak casing, and I tried to target f_v last night cause I felt he was playing a bit scummy).
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Jan 20, 2015 04:57
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Clockwork Gadget posted:The number of town power roles in the game makes me feel like it's undeniably an SK, cult, scum combo. Also, f_v, if you're right and there's no scum team, then in my mind your broken masonry makes you prime suspect #1 for recruited for cult. So, either way, get lynched. Cool, or you could vote for the claimed SK.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:57
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He has no chance of winning now that he's claimed, so, nah, I'd rather lynch a member of one of the scum teams that still stand a chance.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:59
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Rascyc posted:??? My understanding of arsonist is that you target them one night and then set them on fire a different night. I thought your posts didn't make sense based on that.
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Jan 20, 2015 04:59
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I can ignite as many times as I want, and when I want. It's a variation on standard arsonist. You can just call me an SK if that helps. The only difference it makes me to me is that I could have played this game very differently if I used my role to its full potential, which I simply did not because honestly, the game felt unfair towards town from the start when Kumb said a cult was in the game. I figured the least I could do is flip bodies ASAP instead of one gigantic massacre later, also I felt like I would be NK'ed on n2 or something knowing my luck. I'm just being transparent as possible at this point. Well that and also spice up the game a bit so scum don't power lurk their way into a win.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:05
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I honestly think there is no scum team in this game right now, and I have reasons for thinking that, but I'd like Meinberg to check in first and tell me if he agrees.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:08
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My posts make perfect sense if you stop to think about them and consider the points of view. It's obvious f_v is scum with lines like "we could kill the claimed SK" and "maybe there's no scum and it's cult/sk vs town" when you know town should be at lylo at this point. Killing me loses town the game. Unfortunately that same argument can't be used across the board because of the existence of any leftover cultists (max 2), but with the jailings from Clock, everything points to f_v being scum.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:08
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This game is giving me a headache. Does Ras claim only work if I'm scum and tried to NK on D2? I'm super confused here.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:09
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Or if scum tried to NK you on n2. A lurker nk on n2 is not unheard of. From my PoV, I thought you were probably scum on d3. But at this point I like f_v > kumb > before anyone else.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:12
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I feel like I can't parse this game. Ras, you can douse someone and ignite them same night? Also one of fv and Meinberg is probably a cultist and got recruited by capps because their masonry broke. Ras you are also saying that there was no scum NK on N2 and N3 because clock jailed me N2 and fv N3 and we are both scum and each of us tried to do the NK the night we were jailed? Is this your logic?
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Jan 20, 2015 05:12
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and Kumb is mostly PR/claim speculation more than anything. His casing has at least felt townie, but I am a 3p and cased similarly and I think Kumb is as at least as good as I am at mafia, so those would be pretty easy to push on people. I felt the Rarity case was pretty lazy though.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:13
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There's too many roles I don't know well enough to figure out strategy.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:15
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Asiina posted:I feel like I can't parse this game. The logic for either night is that you are either scum or were the target of a scum NK (because of jailing). I can go either way for on N2. I cannot go either way for f_v on n3, there's no world she is the target of a scum NK that night. Combined with her posting today, she is definitely scum.
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Jan 20, 2015 05:15
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I gotta run for the night. F_v is scum!
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Jan 20, 2015 05:16
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This just in, being sick sucks! I've been out of it all day, and likely will be passing out again shortly.fiery_valkyrie posted:Maybe the game never had a scum team, maybe it was just SK/cult. I am almost positive that there is no traditional scum team, just the cult and SK. With Ras's claim, I now know where all of the night kills have come from. For you see, while me and f_v were in a masonry together, we could cooperate to perform a vigkill. It had a lot of qualifiers, including that the disruption of our masonry prevented further vigging. We went after PMom because of how weird he was acting D1. Killing the remaining killer seems like the best route forward, and gives us the most time possible to finish rooting out the cult. ##vote Ras
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Jan 20, 2015 08:05
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Alright. So, here are the two options. There is no scum team. There was a starting cult leader, an SK, and a vig. There is a scum team, in addition to a cult, and an SK. If it's the former, then Ras currently has no chance to win anyway. He's fully revealed himself, thereby defanging himself. Hell, I could jail him from now on, completely preventing the only kill. He's useless now that he's claimed. This means that the cult is now the prime target that we should be hunting, and -- by your own admission -- the disruption of your masonry is strong evidence that one of you was recruited N1. In this case, it seems to me that the best action for us to take is to lynch one of you today. If it's the latter, then the scum team seems very likely to be you two, using this and your convenient "masons with a shared vig" claim to try to do a last-ditch effort to save your game long enough so you can ride the cult-hunt train to victory. In this case, it seems to me that the best action for us to take is to lynch one of you today. In conclusion: Ras is now useless regardless of whether he's lynched today or not. He counts against a potential cult/scum victory, just by sheer force of numbers. Best to keep him around today in light of the more dangerous threat of the remaining existence of a scum team. You guys, however, are either scum or likely to have a cult member (potentially the only cult member) among you. In either case, the best route to victory for the town today is to lynch one of you. My vote's on f_v, and it won't be changing today. tl;dr: don't let these guys talk you into lynching Ras, he's under control and completely harmless, lynch f_v instead today.
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Jan 20, 2015 09:15
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All NK's are accounted for. The cult don't have a kill. We don't even know if they have a win con that is incompatible with town. Why would we randomly kill other people hoping we can hit a cultist, instead of Ras, whose win con is definitely incompatible with town.
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Jan 20, 2015 09:48
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