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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

I'll get you a new write-up on Super GT, and add in some links where you can follow stuff. Radio LeMans and NISMO covered a couple of the final rounds, and SuperGT has been better about putting up English clips after races too. One thing I do know about - the No 2 GT300 team will be running a Lotus Evora (!?) that probably is JAF certified because wow, nobody made a GT3 of that.

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

That's another reason WEC has squeezed some cars out, with a hard limit of space for fly-away races they have a smaller grid for some races than they otherwise could. It wouldn't be worth adding two or three cars in versus the cost of another plane. So it seems like some of the P2 guys are sticking with ELMS instead, and the GTE grid is slowly becoming pro-only. [Edit] it was confirmed last week that the 95 Aston, the Dane Train, is gonna be a GTE Pro entry this year.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

VikingSkull posted:

Yeah, drivers and teams are one thing, but people that think fans have given up brand loyalty are delusional. Just glance at racing video comments on YouTube once in awhile.

That breaks the first rule of keeping your sanity, which is to never read Internet comments ever. (If you're wondering, yes, that's the second and third rules too). But it's another case of people wanting to join tribes for life but not understanding how close-knit everything actually is behind the scenes.

And yeah I agree, I'm sure the photos were timed as such to leak out like this. Nothing comes out of the Ring without corporate approval, and while the Chevy Indy follies at COTA were funny they're the exception and not the rule. Notice how nothing leaked out when they were testing in Arizona? Yeah. Also I have a sneaking suspicion there were promo stuff being done with the car at COTA too, but that's probably my brain adding a livery where it doesn't exist.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Cygni posted:

Speaking of that, IMSA is going to be streaming all 24hrs on their website if you are in an area without coverage, like Canada. Also helpful if you dont have cable and happen to have a VPN...

Oooh, that's good to know.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Rooftop cam and commentary is alright by me.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

track day bro! posted:

Both Factory 911s mysteriously crashed at the same time :raise:

One tripped over a GTD Aston and the other spun and got collected. Definitely a bit Weissach Cops out there for the works team.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Yeah, that orange sunrise owned. And now we've got the top two STILL just a car length away.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

drgitlin posted:

I decided to find out exactly what kinds of tech transfer benefits car companies like Chevrolet and Dodge get out of going racing: http://arstechnica.com/cars/2015/01/the-golden-age-tech-speeds-from-racetrack-to-road-faster-than-ever/

Turns out there are actual tangible things, as well as more ephemeral stuff like training engineers that when it's go time, it's go time.

Good stuff :) and yeah Honda definitely used (and probably still uses) engineers from road departments rotated through racing for the same reasons. It's not just promotional work but putting them in pressure situations.

It still amazes me that Toyota are doing the WEC with engineering budget and a much lower investment than Porsche or Audi. The WEC is going to be so good this year.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007


Even against the contemporary WRC cars, the FWD French kit cars (Citroen Xsara and also Peugeot 305 and a Renault if memory serves) were lightning fast on those rounds, plus San Remo...you know, the all-Tarmac rallies.

Marshall Pruett has the long and short of it here too: http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a24902/developing-the-nissan-gt-r-lm-nismo/

Spot the names and places he talks about in there...AAR, numerous IndyCar teams...

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

Wasn't the 037 RWD? I thought that was the last car to win.

it was indeed RWD, but the Renault 5 came after it.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

drgitlin posted:

I can't believe you're all shocked and surprised about the GT-R LM being FWD. Don't you read Mulsanne's Corner? You ought to.

yes but up until the most recent leaks (not the Jalopnik drawing but the photos) it was hard to really say with confidence that they'll be THAT crazy. And even the photos couldn't tell you it was going to be FF. Seeing the photos from Pruett and the clips of the car almost fully undressed (in that "RC car" state) give that a bunch more credence. That drives it home, I guess. We'll see if he's right about there being no rear wing for Le Mans, I kind of hope for it if only to see how everyone else reacts.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

That ain't Trans-Am. Paul Gentilozzi killed that off. It's glorified club racing, the PWC is the real heir to that throne.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Yeah, the GT3 cars are a bit higher spec than the '70s ones. Most were pony cars too so I guess that's closer than the high-end GT3 machines. But certainly the Conti series or PWC is closer to the preparation standards of '80s and '90s Trans-Am. Current TA is closer to SCCA Regional action. Can't pretend it's the same.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Dudley posted:

For me and I imagine harperdc as well, the headline there is Heitkotter not Davison. Known him for worryingly close to 2 decades on other forums and lost many, many times to him at every sim you care to name back then.

That's quite a challenge he's got there.

I'm glad Nissan USA is giving their GT Academy driver a push too, and a GT-R in PWC makes so much sense. I really hope it leads to good things because he's a goddamn alien on the track. His SCCA Solo II exploits are also pretty miraculous too -- taking unsuitable cars with little prep time and still managing podium at nationals. Crazy.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

George Zimmer posted:

:vince:

Somebody take it to Spa

Rumors are they'll take it to the Ring.

PWC is good, gonna enjoy the YouTube coverage.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Re: Rallying - I miss the Group A days too. Early WRC era (from 1999 to 2002 or so) was awesome too, when they were still based on the madcap homologation cars like the Imprezas and Evos, but once they all became three-door hatches with zero relation to the road cars and the championship rounds got jumbled and stages got mixed around it got really boring. Not coincidentally, that's when WRC went from having decent coverage in the U.S. (I remember watching from '97 through 2000 or so on Speed, they always had daily recap shows or full-rally recap shows on Sundays) to having absolutely nothing.

But I did go to a Rally America event a couple years ago - they had a set of stages held around the Portland Int'l Raceway facilities on the Friday night of the Oregon Trail Rally, which helped get people interested. I don't think I'd seen that many people at the track for an event in years - not the last few Champ Car races, nor the few ALMS events either. It went into the dusk/night too, and standing near a hairpin at night was something else. My dad and I talked with one of the marshals who had been around forever, it was great. The second and third days (the 'proper' rally) were way out on logging roads in the woods, so this was a great chance for them to get cars seen in the city proper.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Dudley posted:

Superally rules.

Another piece of made for TV bullshit.

Remember when flying off the road dramatically actually carried the threat of losing and not being able to continue? Remember when it was risky? Yeah. Ugh.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Dudley posted:

Pretty damning isn't it. Sheds some light on that back to back test they did.

Also how much loving money does ESM have if they can just suddenly go "Welp, let's purchase 2 entire new cars just to run for a couple of months".

Pruett's article suggested they're taking the old cars to Silverstone, and getting new machines as of Spa. Still using Honda engines, thankfully, but even then...big turnaround but they'd probably recoup most of the cost. The Ligiers will still be eligible for a few years to come.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

RLM had Oreca's head on Midweek Motorsport a couple weeks ago. What he said was both very pro-these new rules, but also made a little sense. What he's most worried about is the difference between teams and manufacturers in LMP2. Oreca is a manufacturer and doesn't run their own team; meanwhile, there are a handful of groups making cars on their own without plans to sell them (SMP is one, the Strakka Dome arguably another). The idea is, if you want to do that, go to LMP1, and leave P2 as a customer-only series.

It's not a bad theory, but the way they're going is weird. Three manufacturers only for Europe, plus one more exclusively for the US? Why not mandate that car manufacturers have to supply at least one LMS, IMSA or WEC team as a customer? Or that they can't turn away customers without good reason?

The thing that annoys me most is the big spec engine. What about the engine formula now isn't working? And isn't diversity at a lower cost a good thing? Why not run the rules IMSA is adopting but worldwide? And why do things to ban projects like Mazda's American factory-backed diesel?

P2 is so good right now as a junior level series. They're trying to solve the problems in the wrong way. It's drat near baby and bath water at this point.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Cygni posted:

French chassis builder that is a shoe in to get one of the ACO mandated slots likes the chassis plan that would eliminate half his global competition, you say...

Also the casual 'just go to P1' backers of this plan throw out always makes me laugh. You have two options in P1: Spending more money than in P2 to run permanently as a second class citizen behind the true manufacturers with no TV air time, no chance of a win, and no point, and never selling a customer car... Or try to find $300 million in a gutter and run the full P1-H specs. That's it.

There are 8 different P2 chassis made by 6 companies entered at LeMans. There is one more P2 chassis company stateside, plus 3 more DP chassis builders. There are 8 different engine companies between IMSA/LeMans (5 P2, 3 DP). Welp, better ban half those cars and all but one of the engine brands durrerrr

e (not yelling at you harper, obvi, yellin at ACO/Hugues de Chaunac. Realized that might have seemed like i was being a mega dick to you, ha)

I'm not presenting that view as entirely valid, just the thought process that went into it. It makes a certain amount of sense - keep costs down and the cars fast but still drivable by privateers and gentlemen drivers, and to not allow real "works" cars to sneak in. I get that. I applaud that. If you want a works engine team with an off-the-shelf chassis, I think that'd be great (kinda like Mazda is now in IMSA). But I wouldn't write the rules (three makers, one engine, one extra chassis for IMSA) that way. I would try to encourage the end result through a different method.

I also really don't like that both LMP3 and P2 are running basically kit V8s. I love V8s, but I think the smaller formula prototypes should be using a smaller engine. That's just me.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Horrible scary incident, and tragic that it's led to spectator death. That's pretty loving awful all around :smith:

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Good news, everyone! Live WEC coverage via Fox, Fox Sports 1 and 2 and FS Go confirmed for the United States. Includes live coverage and a 52-minute highlights package later on. Full race will be on their streaming site, too. Assuming this'll be the world feed with the Radio Le Mans coverage.

Exciting! Great for Americans who have the right cable package.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

VikingSkull posted:

Awesome, it's been awhile since we've had proper TV coverage of Le Mans.

I believe Fox/Speed has had Le Mans for a while, this is live coverage of the entire season. Last year was there any WEC COTA coverage at all? I'm not sure.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

I like grid girls/race queens too but whatever. Not a big deal, and also a bonus if it pisses off some human being Fedoralord.

I like good-looking girls as much as anyone but they take it waaaaaaaaaaay too far in Japan. Every time I turned the corner at Tokyo Auto Salon, whenever there was a big gaggle of photographers, they were all huddled around the models...not the cars.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

VikingSkull posted:

We're both England's shame, I feel a kinship to Aussies more than any nation on Earth.

Plus they have sprinters and muscle cars too.

I've heard it described as "Arkansas with a beach" and it sounds completely accurate.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Human Grand Prix posted:

Does Super GT stream?

Radio Le Mans is doing a stream sponsored by NISMO. No clue about the video quality (I'm in Japan so that gets region blocked) but the radio worked for me. It'll start about 6:30 am GMT, 2:30 pm Japan time. So check Twitter or their site, or if memory serves Nismo's YouTube stream too. I'll post it in here.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Super GT at Okayama is up and live, check Nismo's YouTube and Radio Le Mans.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

VikingSkull posted:

how about redesigning where the spectators sit and let idiot race drivers flip

They're doing that too, I'd imagine it's strengthening security to make sure that people sit where they're supposed to. Because yeah, those people weren't supposed to be sitting where they were at that incident.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

BMB5150 posted:

Yeah that's dumb. Just give em the tusc rules if we're doing this for them. Manufactures will be happier and fans will be slightly happier.

The ACO press release yesterday was weird about that. "After consulting with all the major manufacturers, this was chosen as the only way to ensure inexpensive racing" or something like that. Basically, the only way to not go way over cost was to have a spec engine! Which, duh, no poo poo, but still, that's very odd. And the only place the IMSA cars can come play with their freer engine rules is Le Mans? Huh.

I get why they're moving towards these rules, namely for chassis, but for engines? I don't understand it at all.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

That Porsche 919 is loving fast in a straight line, good god.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Depends on who breaks. Same as every year at Le Mans - the #17 car walked away inside the first two hours and then went kaboom. Not much good if you can't last 24 hours. I'm just excited to FINALLY get that Nissan into battle.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

orange juche posted:

Remember at Le Mans last year, all the P1 teams had pretty much crippling issues, and Audi was able to capitalize on it by having ready to go kits of literally anything you needed to replace anything on their cars, from the tools to the parts and consumables for any maintenance you could think of. They swapped two white-hot turbos in 20 minutes, and then brought in the other Audi and did it again, in less time because they didn't need to diagnose the issue.

Mmhmm. All of the cars ran into one issue or another - the No. 8 Toyota got in a wreck and, if memory serves, still almost sniffed the podium eventually. Same with the Porsches. Audi wasn't the fastest but they knew their car and power train and, importantly, knew they'd be reliable.

Porsche has another year of experience and more real speed, Toyota has speed and won the World Championship, Audi has more speed and still retains all their institutional knowledge, and Nissan is a wild card for the 24 and second half of the WEC season. Buckle up, WEC is gonna be good this year.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

TUSCC from Long Beach is live now. Small field yes but hey, it's sports car racing!

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

orange juche posted:

PWC was loving clownshoes this time, amazing poo poo really.

I feel like with that many cars it wraps around to being a spectacle and awesome, whereas maybe 26 cars in TUSCC would've been awful with one caution too many.

TUSCC was good as it was, and the PWC race sounds appreciably clownshoes. Everyone wins.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

That first lap string of LMP1s heading up Eau Rouge was damned near pornographic. I love these cars so much right now.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

The factory Porsche GT teams are basically Yakkity Sax this year. Such a calamity, but surely the biggest factory budget too? Bizarre.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

It's working perfectly for me too.

Some pretty early stops coming in too. Interesting. Also going to be interesting to see which LMP1 can stay out longest - the Toyotas out there sipping fuel?

[Edit] the 19 Porsche that attempted fratricide is on the same lap (+2 to the leaders) as the CLM 4 car. drat.

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

Good lord Hartley, that's gonna earn him a penalty. That's two of the 919s in interesting incidents and we're not even an hour in.

They're insanely fast though. And it looks like the 919s covered the Audis and Toyotas by a lap, too...?

harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

track day bro! posted:

Anyone going to be watching the SuperGT tommorow? I think its on tommorow, nismo are streaming it live on youtube.

Yep, and apparently the pole time (all Nissan front-row, the 1 from the 12) is almost LMP1 fast - Lucas Ordonez tweeted out it would've been in the mix with the P1s according to last year's quali. Madness.

I can't get it (inside Japan) but I might try NicoNico or just listen to the RLM feed (last race was on video only, I was told this would be on the radio feed too). Wish I could've gone. I think my scheme is go to WEC this year and maybe save Super GT for next.

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harperdc
Jul 24, 2007

orange juche posted:

Le Mans is going to be loving intense this year, all 3 P1 teams are so loving close again, there's no team that can run away with it.

and the Nissans are a complete wildcard. I doubt they're super competitive in the late hours but still, wanna see how that backwards design actually works.

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