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Simsmagic
Aug 3, 2011

Any tree can drop an apple. I'll drop the freaking moon!




I feel alone in that I think the top face overhaul for Oblivion actually looks really ugly and takes away from some of the experience

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Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



Simsmagic posted:

I feel alone in that I think the top face overhaul for Oblivion actually looks really ugly and takes away from some of the experience

This one? https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/44676


If it's that one, I used it and liked it. I feel like the average NPC in-game doesn't look at outlandish as the preview pics.


Barnum Brown Shoes posted:

Now, what i really like is going on adventures with vilja in oblivion

Wow this is real! https://www.nexusmods.com/oblivion/mods/28977

Chomp8645 fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Jun 30, 2020

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



The human and elf faces look very impressive (aside from some of the hair options looking dumb), but the beast race and Orc faces look absolutely dreadful.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



oblivion consists of a bunch of objective improvements over morrowind that end up not mattering because the setting sucks in comparison. and you can't fix the setting. you can get halfway to a good setting but it takes an ungodly long modlist to even do that

well and also the engine is a frankenstein's monster of technology that bethesda didn't fully understand layered over morrowind's comparatively lean and performant engine

the only 100% mandatory mod tho is the one that makes dunmer ears not look like altmer ears

Donkey
Apr 22, 2003




I remember being amazed by how great Bloodmoon was when it came out. For some reason I still consider it the high water mark of video game expansions, even though I'm sure there have been better ones since then.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Jazerus posted:

oblivion consists of a bunch of objective improvements over morrowind that end up not mattering because the setting sucks in comparison. and you can't fix the setting. you can get halfway to a good setting but it takes an ungodly long modlist to even do that

The setting is really good though. Itís not trying to do the same thing as Morrowind but that doesnít make silly, colourful D&D-esque fantasy not also good.

Kamrat
Nov 27, 2012

Thanks for playing Alone in the dark 2.

Now please fuck off


Donkey posted:

I remember being amazed by how great Bloodmoon was when it came out. For some reason I still consider it the high water mark of video game expansions, even though I'm sure there have been better ones since then.

Other than Bloodmoons insane difficulty spike in the final chapter I think it's a great expansion.

I had such a rough time in the end there, savescumming all the way

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

I go pretty easy on Oblivion because it was my first ES game and I respect that guy's commitment to the bit but it is almost objectively worse than both Morrowind and Skyrim and that's not even accounting for the way all the leveling breaks the game eventually

Like if you want the best setting and plot or the craziest magik spellz then Morrowind is your go-to, and if you want the closest thing to passable combat, dungeons that aren't just three rooms and to just kinda quest around getting loot Skyrim is a much better version of that. Oblivion is such a weird middle child with all of the flaws of both but few of the strengths. RIP Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart.

Meyers-Briggs Testicle
Aug 13, 2012

But without the hero, there is no Event.


Buglord

cargohills posted:

The setting is really good though. Itís not trying to do the same thing as Morrowind but that doesnít make silly, colourful D&D-esque fantasy not also good.

its actually very miserable in every sense of the word

Wolfsheim posted:

I go pretty easy on Oblivion because it was my first ES game and I respect that guy's commitment to the bit but it is almost objectively worse than both Morrowind and Skyrim and that's not even accounting for the way all the leveling breaks the game eventually

Like if you want the best setting and plot or the craziest magik spellz then Morrowind is your go-to, and if you want the closest thing to passable combat, dungeons that aren't just three rooms and to just kinda quest around getting loot Skyrim is a much better version of that. Oblivion is such a weird middle child with all of the flaws of both but few of the strengths. RIP Sean Bean and Patrick Stewart.
^ this

oblivion is the transition fossil between strong narrative and world (morrowind) and strong gameplay/mechanics in skyrim

at the time oblivion was novel but it has aged extremely terribly

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



the good part of oblivion is captain picard's opening narration

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Maybe a controversial take here then: the main story of Morrowind sounds excellent when you read about it but isnít actually very well told in the game. I donít know where or when but Todd Howard once made a comment that Morrowind told an excellent story about something that happened millennia ago, and that for Oblivion they instead wanted to make the story be stuff that actually happens to you.

FBS
Apr 27, 2015





The parts of Oblivion that aren't bad are all extremely boring, with the exception of a few questlines. On a technical level it has aged very very badly.

I was disappointed in the game when it came out but ~15 years later there's not much reason to defend it imo. Game's bad

FutonForensic
Nov 11, 2012



Grimey Drawer

There was a version of Oblivion planned for the PSP that got scrapped. It wasn't going to be open world, just a series of dungeons. Most interesting thing I noticed on UESP is this screenshot containing a werewolf, which are noticeably absent from the console version.

WhiskeyWhiskers
Oct 14, 2013

CHOO! CHOO!
TANKIE COMIN THRU!




The fact Bethesda could write a compelling story about the subtle co-optation of a colonised people's radical anti-colonial beliefs by Imperial authorities and then go onto write whatever the gently caress Oblivion was is just wild.

Wolfsheim
Dec 23, 2003

and god is on your side
dividing sparrows from the nightingales

cargohills posted:

Maybe a controversial take here then: the main story of Morrowind sounds excellent when you read about it but isn’t actually very well told in the game. I don’t know where or when but Todd Howard once made a comment that Morrowind told an excellent story about something that happened millennia ago, and that for Oblivion they instead wanted to make the story be stuff that actually happens to you.

But then why did they make it be stuff that happens to a guy standing next to you

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



Happens to you in the sense that you see it happen, rather than having it in the past. Youíre also still the guy who does practically everything important, barring becoming the Emperor and also a dragon.

Freakazoid_
Jul 4, 2013




Buglord

A lot of goons mad that Oblivion is good despite its flaws.

Coincidentally, a couple of streamers I like just happened to be playing/have played Oblivion in the past couple weeks.

Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



Freakazoid_ posted:

A lot of goons mad that Oblivion is good despite its flaws.

We don't need to do this, man. I'm an Oblivion lover but people saying it's bad doesn't mean they are mad posting. They just haven't achieved Chim.

VostokProgram
Feb 20, 2014



https://youtu.be/iR-K2rUP86M

John F Bennett
Jan 30, 2013

I always wear my wedding ring. It's my trademark.


cargohills posted:

... but I remember liking the Mages' Guild. I particularly like how it was structured, with you having to go around the various guilds and get recommendations.

See, this was nice and fun the first time you did it. It kinda sucked balls on subsequent plays.

BBJoey
Oct 31, 2012



cargohills posted:

Happens to you in the sense that you see it happen, rather than having it in the past. Youíre also still the guy who does practically everything important, barring becoming the Emperor and also a dragon.

you literally watch an NPC fight and beat the final boss. is this a bit you're doing

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



John F Bennett posted:

See, this was nice and fun the first time you did it. It kinda sucked balls on subsequent plays.

Yeah, Iíd imagine it would be irritating if you wanted to have access to spellmaking on a different character.

BBJoey posted:

you literally watch an NPC fight and beat the final boss. is this a bit you're doing

Given how underwhelming the final bosses are in Morrowind and Skyrim Iím not sure this is that much of a problem.

(Something interesting is that the boss in Morrowind is basically the same as the boss in Arena - itís best to ignore the scary unique spellcaster and make a beeline right to the magic thing thatís keeping him alive.)

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



I really like the voices of the dragons in Skyrim for some reason, Alduin especially. It's so menacing and arrogant

Dave Angel
Sep 8, 2004



Barnum Brown Shoes posted:

Now, what i really like is going on adventures with vilja in oblivion

There's a story on how Terry Pratchett got involved with contributing to this mod, and how it ended up being extended with features that would help him be able to continue playing Oblivion as his Alzheimer's progressed: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...chett-worked-on

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012



cargohills posted:

Yeah, Iíd imagine it would be irritating if you wanted to have access to spellmaking on a different character.


Given how underwhelming the final bosses are in Morrowind and Skyrim Iím not sure this is that much of a problem.

(Something interesting is that the boss in Morrowind is basically the same as the boss in Arena - itís best to ignore the scary unique spellcaster and make a beeline right to the magic thing thatís keeping him alive.)

Morrowind's final boss is fairly hype though? You stab a giant magical heart and cause it to explode sending scary mask man falling into lava as the bridge to his giant robot collapses. Morrowind combat is so jank that a traditional final boss would be a lot worse

Skyrim would have been a lot more exciting if there were more than three other past dragonborn with you though, but conceptually you teaming up with your past incarnations to shout the ender of the world into another dimension is fairly badass

Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



BBJoey posted:

you literally watch an NPC fight and beat the final boss. is this a bit you're doing

Mankar Cameron is the final boss. The Dagon/Dragon (lol) showdown is the epilogue.

reignofevil
Nov 7, 2008


You get to stab the deadric lord in his knees what more could you want!

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

When I press the special key
it plays a little melody



Nap Ghost

The Daedric Dildo is the final boss of Oblivion

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Is there a worse questline than skyrim thieves guild? Maybe the hortator/nerevarine section of Morrowind. I've tediously bumped up my reputation to 20 just to skip that part more than once.

Chomp8645
Sep 1, 2006

Vvardenfell awaits.



Guildenstern Mother posted:

Is there a worse questline than skyrim thieves guild? Maybe the hortator/nerevarine section of Morrowind.

...







By the Nine Divines!

Four-Eyes
Nov 3, 2018
Probation
Can't post for 4166 days!


Wasn't the plot of Morrowind written by someone naked, on drugs and surviving on whiskey?

I'm not terribly surprised it has better world building.

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



GorfZaplen posted:

Morrowind's final boss is fairly hype though? You stab a giant magical heart and cause it to explode sending scary mask man falling into lava as the bridge to his giant robot collapses. Morrowind combat is so jank that a traditional final boss would be a lot worse

Maybe it's just experiencing it for the first time in 2020 rather than 2002 but I did not find it especially exciting. Also I didn't know the lava thing would happen so I just stabbed him to death and then walked away.

EDIT: It's also basically got no real gameplay to it as you mention because the combat is awful, so it just feels like you walk up to the end game button and press it.

I would like to note that I did actually enjoy Morrowind, and the world and lore are definitely very interesting, but the way people talk about it just breezes right past all the poo poo parts.

Guildenstern Mother posted:

Is there a worse questline than skyrim thieves guild? Maybe the hortator/nerevarine section of Morrowind. I've tediously bumped up my reputation to 20 just to skip that part more than once.

Oblivion has the same problem to a lesser degree but every single quest that even slightly involves disposition is so irritating in Morrowind, because of how poo poo Speechcraft is as a skill. Happy they basically got rid of it in Skyrim. New Vegas is probably the one time it sort of works in a Bethesda-style game.

cargohills fucked around with this message at 16:04 on Jul 1, 2020

GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012



cargohills posted:

Maybe it's just experiencing it for the first time in 2020 rather than 2002 but I did not find it especially exciting. Also I didn't know the lava thing would happen so I just stabbed him to death and then walked away.

EDIT: It's also basically got no real gameplay to it as you mention because the combat is awful, so it just feels like you walk up to the end game button and press it.

I would like to note that I did actually enjoy Morrowind, and the world and lore are definitely very interesting, but the way people talk about it just breezes right past all the poo poo parts.


Oblivion has the same problem to a lesser degree but every single quest that even slightly involves disposition is so irritating in Morrowind, because of how poo poo Speechcraft is as a skill. Happy they basically got rid of it in Skyrim. New Vegas is probably the one time it sort of works in a Bethesda-style game.

I didn't actually beat it until a few years ago so I didn't experience it in 2002 either The end being very finicky is very fitting for a game that crashes as much as Morrowind though

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

Wow just a whole bunch of bad takes in this thread. Speech craft is great; I like how it helps to differentiate characters like the ďnative-ish Dunmer bardĒ from an Orc fighter with no charisma and adds a mechanical benefit to non-combat skills. And I may be the only one that liked the wheel mini game for speech craft in Oblivion.

RBA Starblade
Apr 27, 2008

Going Home.



Especially at the time I enjoyed Oblivion being in Not Middle Earth and probably would've hated it being in a lovely jungle

Deltasquid
Apr 10, 2013

awww...
you guys made me ink!


THUNDERDOME


Oblivion was basically my first fantasy rpg I played as a kid (unless HoMM or Runescape counts I guess) and itís still my favourite in the series. Morrowind is mechanical jank held together by nostalhia tape which I do not share, and Skyrim was pretty good mechanically but the world and quests just didnít grab me. I retried Oblivion last year and itís still my favourite despite its flaws. I like the fantasy kitchen sink setting.

Oblivion is good, and I look forward to TeS VI if it ever comes out and I hope the quests err more on the side of Oblivionís writing than Skyrim (and naturally that the gameplay doesnít play like Morrowind or Oblivion)

EDIT: and also yeah a jungle would have sucked. I like LoTR Cyrodiil and I loved how Anvil reminded me more of a mediterranean setting rather than fantasy England. Every city oozed charm in its design and the imperial city blew my 12 year-old mind. I look forward to a hypothetical Daggerfall setting, I like bright colours and warm seas. Iím a bit sad it looks like we wonít be getting the Summerset Isles but Hammerell/high rock is cool too.

Deltasquid fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jul 1, 2020

Jazerus
May 24, 2011



generic fantasy cyrodiil is fine in itself, it's just so much less rad than a roman-aztec jungle where the skyline is dominated by gigantic pyramids to the divines

objectively, in retrospect, bethesda wouldn't have been able to pull off the jungle very well but it was disappointing at the time

Jazerus fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Jul 1, 2020

Meyers-Briggs Testicle
Aug 13, 2012

But without the hero, there is no Event.


Buglord

Deltasquid posted:

Oblivion was basically my first fantasy rpg I played as a kid and it’s still my favourite in the series.

Crazy! Who would have guessed

cargohills
Apr 17, 2014



GorfZaplen posted:

I didn't actually beat it until a few years ago so I didn't experience it in 2002 either The end being very finicky is very fitting for a game that crashes as much as Morrowind though

Surprisingly I think Morrowind only crashed once in my time playing it. So far Oblivion has only crashed on me once too - it's a miracle!

Cantorsdust posted:

Wow just a whole bunch of bad takes in this thread. Speech craft is great; I like how it helps to differentiate characters like the “native-ish Dunmer bard” from an Orc fighter with no charisma and adds a mechanical benefit to non-combat skills. And I may be the only one that liked the wheel mini game for speech craft in Oblivion.

It doesn't add a mechanical benefit to non-combat skills anywhere but some quests where you need to get some guy to have a high disposition before he'll say the thing that gets you to progress, or merchant prices. Otherwise you're going into dungeons and exploring the world as usual and you've hosed yourself by picking a useless skill instead of something good.

Deltasquid posted:

EDIT: and also yeah a jungle would have sucked. I like LoTR Cyrodiil and I loved how Anvil reminded me more of a mediterranean setting rather than fantasy England. Every city oozed charm in its design and the imperial city blew my 12 year-old mind. I look forward to a hypothetical Daggerfall setting, I like bright colours and warm seas. I’m a bit sad it looks like we won’t be getting the Summerset Isles but Hammerell/high rock is cool too.

I am also a big fan of the cities in Oblivion.Think that was one of the few areas (along with the quest writing) where Skyrim was a step back - although there were about as many major cities, almost half of them were just tiny villages (e.g. Morthal, Dawnstar, Winterhold) with the same architecture and not much going on. Different series but Fallout 4 was another major step back on that front seeing as there's basically only one real city in the game.

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GorfZaplen
Jan 20, 2012



RBA Starblade posted:

Especially at the time I enjoyed Oblivion being in Not Middle Earth and probably would've hated it being in a lovely jungle

I watched the lord of the rings movies recently and I never realized how much newer elder scrolls took from it for visual design. Whiterun in particular is a dead ringer for Edoras. And obviously the imperial guards look just like the Gondor soldiers

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