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MillennialVulcan
Feb 11, 2008

(Thought-ful Croak)


What the heck is a scrollocaust?

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Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3





armoredgorilla posted:

What the heck is a scrollocaust?

DUMBING DOWN

Atrayonis
Jul 6, 2008

Godspeed, brave canary


Agents are GO! posted:



Maybe it's because I can't run ENB, but they're even paler in my game. It's still a good mod, just... troublesome.

Edit: I just noticed that the female imperial looks high as gently caress in those pics.

That's actually a design flaw in Oblivion itself, which has no black people only white people with the color slider way down, but...

[Rejoice!

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Heart racing
Knees shaking
This emptiness a toll
A toll it's taken


Man Whore posted:

DUMBING DOWN

Yeah it's what dumb babby nerds like me call TES: O because we're mad about the lore. I freely admit it isn't remotely worth the anger but then if I was a good, well-balanced person, I wouldn't be a goon, now would I?

Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3





TES:O was p lol-worthy, I was more referring to that video that keeps popping up in my related videos called "TES: the dumbing down" or whatever the gently caress.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
"loving CASUALS RUINING MY VIDEO GAMES!"

I don't disagree with him saying that some of the bad things are bad but blaming "casuals" just makes me roll my eyes so hard.

Man Whore fucked around with this message at Jan 27, 2015 around 21:21

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


Oblivion Character Overhaul is fine, you're talking about a game that can't even do black skin in the first place. Vanilla Oblivion every redguard is on some sliding scale from a shade away from having a heart attack to some kind of tomato person.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013



Agents are GO! posted:



Maybe it's because I can't run ENB, but they're even paler in my game. It's still a good mod, just... troublesome.

Edit: I just noticed that the female imperial looks high as gently caress in those pics.

I dunno why, but the Khajiit look really loving off-putting. I think they need a lot more work. That and the orc female looks like she has googly eyes.

Lord Superchrome
Aug 8, 2012


SolidSnakesBandana posted:

Quell your nerd-rage good sir, the opinions and perspectives of non-fans can be very insightful. After all, the average gamer probably started with Oblivion.

Like I said, I'm only 2 hours into Skyrim and I've never played a TES game previously, but I'm into it. If you put yourself in my shoes, I'm sure you can understand where I'd see similarities with this snowy dragon-world.

Also when my friend heard I was getting into Skyrim, he immediately recommended like 3GB of mods and said the un-modded game was bad. Am I making a mistake by playing the game normally here?

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


No, the game is best played vanilla until you find something that annoys you, then find a mod that fixes that thing. Only a handful of mods need to be installed at launch.

SolidSnakesBandana
Jul 1, 2007

Infinite ammo


I thing SPERG is the go-to mod for general improvement. Anything else is pretty optional, the game is actually good out of the box. Most peoples problem with Skyrim comes from the lame dungeon design and somewhat lackluster implementation of the civil war plotline. Also due to the way the game plays, making a new character isn't as satisfying due to the way you can kinda just get good at everything and you don't really have to specialize, leading to replays feeling samey.

Pikestaff
Feb 17, 2013

Live fast
Die young
Bad mages do it well


I actually play Skryim vanilla. Hundreds of hours of it too. Never had a problem with it.

The really weird thing is that I have probably some ~150 Morrowind mods and plugins at all times, but for some reason I never got around to bothering with modding Skyrim.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Heart racing
Knees shaking
This emptiness a toll
A toll it's taken


So a couple of questions for Morrowind mods as I'm soon embarking on a replay.

1) Are there any reasonably sized packs or collections of new armor and weapons out there? I'd love for some goon to go through loads of equipment mods and curate them for quality and balance, but I'll be happy if there are just some megapacks or something.

2) I know there have been attempts at crafting mods; did any of these ever end up being useful and/or interesting? Back when the game was much younger I tried a couple but they seemed very, very prone to crashing.

e; I've played a lot of Skyrim both with and without mods, and I wouldn't class very many as remotely necessary - only SPERG or one like it, really - just do as Sky Shadowing says and play until you find something that bugs you. Or browse or our Skyrim modding goonthread for things that look interesting and have good reviews and throw them in. The game can benefit from mods, but it doesn't need them, I don't think.

Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at Jan 28, 2015 around 00:19

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


SkyUI is probably the only mod I would recommend to someone on a first play through. Its easy enough to install and doesn't really change the vanilla experience outside of making the interface not awful.

Lizard Wizard
Dec 25, 2004

mep, mep


Man Whore posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JweTAhyR4o0
"loving CASUALS RUINING MY VIDEO GAMES!"

I don't disagree with him saying that some of the bad things are bad but blaming "casuals" just makes me roll my eyes so hard.

Watching this out of sheer curiosity. Early in he mentions he's got a lot to say about Oblivion but . Did he ever make a video about Oblivion?

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

ASK ME HOW TO CUT PINEAPPLE LIKE A BADASS


Lord Superchrome posted:

Also when my friend heard I was getting into Skyrim, he immediately recommended like 3GB of mods and said the un-modded game was bad. Am I making a mistake by playing the game normally here?

No. Once you start modding Skyrim, you'll never stop. Just look at the discussion in this thread for proof. I've played several hundred hours of vanilla and it's fun.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


Skyrim really doesn't need a lot of mods to be enjoyable, unlike Oblivion. The mods can add a lot, but like I said just doing SkyUI you can enjoy the game right out of the box.

I mean really, even for Oblivion with OCO, maybe a non intrusive leveling mod for progression, something to change how level scaling works and, uh okay you're going to need some mods to be able to enjoy Oblivion nowadays.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


I kind of cooled off with Zenimax Online when I played through the Pact storyline, even if Deshaan and Eastmarch's stories pissed me off. Deshaan because of the enemy that the Tribunal, who are at the height of their power, cannot face, but you can. Eastmarch's because I viewed the ending as lazy and a rip off of Skyrim.

But in a lot of areas, it was obvious they put in a lot of little details. Like Coldharbour having a copy of the White-Gold Tower, I tipped my fake hat to them for a few things like that. With those, my only fault was a few times it didn't make sense (Black Briad Mead! It's 1000 years before Skyrim, but it still exists!) and you just felt like the devs were sitting next to you elbowing you saying "hey, remember THAT? We did!" They were trying too hard, I felt at times, to be referential to the rest of the series and weren't thinking in terms of their own setting and strike out on their own.

As for the alliances, I forgive them that because there wasn't really a good way to have the world divided in 3s that made any more sense than just straight up geography. And lore should always be set aside when gameplay requires it.

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

Sky Shadowing posted:

I kind of cooled off with Zenimax Online when I played through the Pact storyline, even if Deshaan and Eastmarch's stories pissed me off. Deshaan because of the enemy that the Tribunal, who are at the height of their power, cannot face, but you can. Eastmarch's because I viewed the ending as lazy and a rip off of Skyrim.

But in a lot of areas, it was obvious they put in a lot of little details. Like Coldharbour having a copy of the White-Gold Tower, I tipped my fake hat to them for a few things like that. With those, my only fault was a few times it didn't make sense (Black Briad Mead! It's 1000 years before Skyrim, but it still exists!) and you just felt like the devs were sitting next to you elbowing you saying "hey, remember THAT? We did!" They were trying too hard, I felt at times, to be referential to the rest of the series and weren't thinking in terms of their own setting and strike out on their own.

As for the alliances, I forgive them that because there wasn't really a good way to have the world divided in 3s that made any more sense than just straight up geography. And lore should always be set aside when gameplay requires it.

The Tribunal at the height of their power should be able to take on anyone. They defeated Mehrunes Dagon when he marched on Mournhold (though too late to save the city itself, which had to be rebuilt), and they fought Tiber Septim, Emperor of the rest of the drat world and god-to-be (and likely Shezzarrine, etc etc) to a standstill. It's hard to imagine an enemy, mundane or cosmic, that could possibly stop them.

Also, lore wise, I realize it makes sense that the Tribunal and Tiber Septim should be tied. If Talos is getting his power by mantling Lorkhan, and the Tribunal have direct access to Lorkhan's heart, then both of them ultimately derive their power from the same source.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


Sky Shadowing posted:

I kind of cooled off with Zenimax Online when I played through the Pact storyline, even if Deshaan and Eastmarch's stories pissed me off. Deshaan because of the enemy that the Tribunal, who are at the height of their power, cannot face, but you can. Eastmarch's because I viewed the ending as lazy and a rip off of Skyrim.

But in a lot of areas, it was obvious they put in a lot of little details. Like Coldharbour having a copy of the White-Gold Tower, I tipped my fake hat to them for a few things like that. With those, my only fault was a few times it didn't make sense (Black Briad Mead! It's 1000 years before Skyrim, but it still exists!) and you just felt like the devs were sitting next to you elbowing you saying "hey, remember THAT? We did!" They were trying too hard, I felt at times, to be referential to the rest of the series and weren't thinking in terms of their own setting and strike out on their own.

As for the alliances, I forgive them that because there wasn't really a good way to have the world divided in 3s that made any more sense than just straight up geography. And lore should always be set aside when gameplay requires it.

I don't know, having just played through this in the past couple of weeks, it never really feels like the Tribunal can't face these issues as they leave it up to the denizens of Morrowind to sort it out. Compared to the Akavir invasions and Mehrunes Dragon attacking they seem pretty low on the threat level though what's her name stealing the judgment of veloth to try and steal everyone's soul is enough of a short term threat that Almalexia gets personally involved to help you along. Plus it has been hinted that the other Tribunal members have their own things theyre dealing with which will come up in future DLC (clockwork city just recently confirmed)

I kind of agree with Skyrim, though. I don't think it felt really a retread of Skyrim's main story as it was just more nords, more mead jokes, etc. After doing parts of mainland Morrowind and a sliver of Black Marsh, Skyrim just felt already-tread and less interesting. Maybe they should have reversed the ordering.

I've never had a real problem with the Alliances because at least Daggerfall and Ebonheart really drive home in many of the quests that they are in part alliances of convenience and many of the residents of each region still hate/mistrust each other. Slavery is still present in Morrowind, even if they've been given up enslaving argonians, and there's still a lot of anxiety over Dark Elves breaking even these terms at a drop of the hat, for instance.

Edit: also the Alliances are less bizarre when you really think about it. Hammerfell and High Rock routinely band together (usually to crush the orcs) but in the circumstances its not crazy that they'd roll with the Orcs (though the Orcs think it'll only be temporary) to help them achieve their political goals.

Then Valenwood and Summerset have always have ties, so the Thalmor have precedent shown in Skyrim.

Ebonheart is the only strangest pairing, though the lore in the game presents it as a pact of convenience to keep themselves independent after the Akavir invasions and less focused on taking over all of Tamriel as to make sure the other two alliances don't do it then impose on them.

Berke Negri fucked around with this message at Jan 28, 2015 around 04:03

FuzzySlippers
Feb 6, 2009



Shame they didn't try to make an elder scrolls game rather than a reskin of DAOC. That's a lot of effort to make the three sided alliance setup make sense.

Quantumfate
Feb 17, 2009

Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:


"Motherfucker I will -end- you"

FuzzySlippers posted:

Shame they didn't try to make an elder scrolls game rather than a reskin of DAOC. That's a lot of effort to make the three sided alliance setup make sense.

I loving loved DAoC, you just made me want to try ESO.

Though they could have easily just reshuffled things to make alliances work: Elves, Men and Beasts (orcs included) as an example.

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002



ESO's flaw is that it was made by a heavily expanded team, a b-team - and that isn't to poo poo on the people who made it, I think it was a good game - but Bethesda hired a fuckload of new talent and told them to make an Elder Scrolls MMORPG. The result was uneven.

It was a workman-like fantasy MMO with a few neat gimmicks like first person (added halfway through development) and better production quality than most anything else out there in the MMO market. It also had the benefit of having neat premade lore. It was lacking in what people liked about Elder Scrolls though, imo.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

TEAYCHES posted:

ESO's flaw is that it was made by a heavily expanded team, a b-team - and that isn't to poo poo on the people who made it, I think it was a good game - but Bethesda hired a fuckload of new talent and told them to make an Elder Scrolls MMORPG. The result was uneven.

It was a workman-like fantasy MMO with a few neat gimmicks like first person (added halfway through development) and better production quality than most anything else out there in the MMO market. It also had the benefit of having neat premade lore. It was lacking in what people liked about Elder Scrolls though, imo.

What are you talking about? "bethedsa hired" it was a Zenimax production, they shunted it out to some other developer entirely.

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002



WanderingMinstrel I posted:

What are you talking about? "bethedsa hired" it was a Zenimax production, they shunted it out to some other developer entirely.

I'm wrong. Didn't know it was that much of an independent job.

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002



Could someone give an accurate narrative of what happened with ESO on the development side? So I don't say dumb poo poo in the future.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

I didn't mean to come off like an rear end in a top hat there, its just that one of the major complaints before the game came out was that bethesda wasn't even the studio doing it, which got a lot of people really annoyed because they thought it would mean the game would be too MMO-y and lose a lot of the lore.

Vitruvio
Jan 28, 2015


I broke my copy of Oblivion with Nehrim, but I'm too lazy to just reconfigure everything.

Nehrim was pretty drat good, though.

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002



I thought they had more of a leash but the lead producer was literally the guy from Dark Age of Camelot. Was anyone from Bethesda working on ESO apart from consulting or advisory roles?

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

The Yanks kill and me I read Mao Mao
The jester is king and me I sing
Mao Mao
The bombs go off and me I scoff
Mao Mao
Girls run and me I follow
Mao Mao


TEAYCHES posted:

I thought they had more of a leash but the lead producer was literally the guy from Dark Age of Camelot. Was anyone from Bethesda working on ESO apart from consulting or advisory roles?

ESO is very much an MMO, with a troubled launch at that, but I think complaints about lore in the game are kind of dumb. This is still the series (in Morrowind nonetheless) that references Lowtax, I mean really come on.

Edit: That's why, honestly, I like Kirkbride because he will throw out crazy things everywhere and let's be honest, this all just started out of some friends' D&D campaign and it is kind of silly to get really mad about things like Cyrodiil not being a jungle.

Though of course it should be, maybe. Or it was?

Berke Negri fucked around with this message at Jan 28, 2015 around 07:01

MillennialVulcan
Feb 11, 2008

(Thought-ful Croak)


It was a jungle but then Tiber Septim screamed about it until it wasn't.

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

A time travelling robot from the future who is actually one of the divines did it, just like everything else Kirkbride writes now.

Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3







Same.

Chief Savage Man
Jul 19, 2010

i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice


Pillbug

Don't feel the need to mod Skyrim too much, it's a good game out of the box except for the UI. Besides it makes it more fun when you revisit the game in a few years and can basically play a different game by modding it. It's a syndrome common to Bethesda players that we play a game long enough with one mod that it becomes 'essential' for us to keep playing it while in reality there's a lot of personal taste involved. I like how I've set up Skyrim to have survival and realism aspects like exposure, needs and disabled fast travel but I'm not going to say it's the only way to play the game because that the defeats the purpose of modding.

Oblivion on the other hand needs a decent amount of work. The only things I miss from Oblivion in Skyrim are the acrobatics skill and all the antics that provided for (bouncing a horse across a river, evading guards by clearing a house in one bound) and the Thieves Guild. The Skyrim Thieves Guild sucks partially because of some guy running up to you going 'HEY I BET YOU'RE AN rear end in a top hat' instead of how I originally stumbled upon the Guild in Oblivion when I got arrested. The Dark Brotherhood was definitely better in Oblivion but I liked how Skyrim has the 'big contract' feel that the TES4 TG had. Now I need to look for or figure out a mod that creates random conditions to discover the secret guilds. I miss having the TG/DB trigger at dynamic times instead of the two static start points in Skyrim.

Ms Adequate
Oct 29, 2011

Heart racing
Knees shaking
This emptiness a toll
A toll it's taken


Chief Savage Man posted:

Don't feel the need to mod Skyrim too much, it's a good game out of the box except for the UI. Besides it makes it more fun when you revisit the game in a few years and can basically play a different game by modding it. It's a syndrome common to Bethesda players that we play a game long enough with one mod that it becomes 'essential' for us to keep playing it while in reality there's a lot of personal taste involved. I like how I've set up Skyrim to have survival and realism aspects like exposure, needs and disabled fast travel but I'm not going to say it's the only way to play the game because that the defeats the purpose of modding.

Oblivion on the other hand needs a decent amount of work. The only things I miss from Oblivion in Skyrim are the acrobatics skill and all the antics that provided for (bouncing a horse across a river, evading guards by clearing a house in one bound) and the Thieves Guild. The Skyrim Thieves Guild sucks partially because of some guy running up to you going 'HEY I BET YOU'RE AN rear end in a top hat' instead of how I originally stumbled upon the Guild in Oblivion when I got arrested. The Dark Brotherhood was definitely better in Oblivion but I liked how Skyrim has the 'big contract' feel that the TES4 TG had. Now I need to look for or figure out a mod that creates random conditions to discover the secret guilds. I miss having the TG/DB trigger at dynamic times instead of the two static start points in Skyrim.

Yeah if there's one thing I really do think Skyrim misstepped with, it's removing acrobatics and athletics. They could have merged them into a single skill and had a better game than removing both entirely, I think.

Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3





I would put them in the lovely pick-pocket skill tree and call it dexterity or nimbleness or something.

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

Mister Adequate posted:

Yeah if there's one thing I really do think Skyrim misstepped with, it's removing acrobatics and athletics. They could have merged them into a single skill and had a better game than removing both entirely, I think.

First thing I have to do when I play Skyrim is up the player speed about 50%. It just feels painfully slow to trudge along without it. But then, I usually eschew all fast travel, so walking a bit faster is really important to me.

radintorov
Feb 18, 2011


Sky Shadowing posted:

They were trying too hard, I felt at times, to be referential to the rest of the series and weren't thinking in terms of their own setting and strike out on their own.
That's the same thing I noticed when I went through the EP storyline, but I didn't feel the same with the other two factions.

Honestly, despite the crappy launch and design decisions that they have been slowly adressing, I thought it's now getting to be a more than decent entry in the series.
It probably helped that (unlike Oblivion back in the day) I wasn't expecting much when it came out.


Berke Negri posted:

SkyUI is probably the only mod I would recommend to someone on a first play through. Its easy enough to install and doesn't really change the vanilla experience outside of making the interface not awful.
I'd recommend it too along with the Unofficial Patches, since besides the bugs, Skyrim is enjoyable without mods and a Vanilla run was how I did the Main Quest the first time.

Cream-of-Plenty
Apr 21, 2010


SunAndSpring posted:

I dunno why, but the Khajiit look really loving off-putting. I think they need a lot more work. That and the orc female looks like she has googly eyes.

These Khajiit look a lot like some 1980-1990's live-action "Beast" from Beauty and the Beast, in the sense that they look like ordinary people wearing creepy masks, pretending to be cats.

Scyantific
Feb 13, 2011

Awaken, Tribunal


Lord Superchrome posted:

Like I said, I'm only 2 hours into Skyrim and I've never played a TES game previously, but I'm into it. If you put yourself in my shoes, I'm sure you can understand where I'd see similarities with this snowy dragon-world.

Also when my friend heard I was getting into Skyrim, he immediately recommended like 3GB of mods and said the un-modded game was bad. Am I making a mistake by playing the game normally here?

Your friend is an idiot. If anything I'd echo what's been said about getting a few basic things like the Unofficial Patches, and SkyUI. Then hit up this thread once you have an idea of what you actually want to change.

Anyway, anyone know what happened to this bigass project?

E: Turns out that project was cancelled. Would have been cool to see some off-the-rails batshit insane stuff like a Thalmor Space Station.

Scyantific fucked around with this message at Jan 29, 2015 around 04:07

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Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3





Wow that project didn't last long at all.

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