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FutonForensic posted:he cares too much about what other people on youtube think in general, tbh Tbf this describes the backbone of the video game commentary creator/consumer ecosystem just like, generally
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Nov 16, 2022 05:35
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| # ? Apr 19, 2024 17:17 |
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I got the Skyrim Anniversary Edition today, but I've run into a very annoying bug. Every time I equip any of the CC backpacks, it disappears completely from my inventory without granting any benefits. I can craft a new one, but once I equip it it's gone too, like using a potion or eating food. It's a shame, because I like survival, fishing and all the weird note quests from AE 
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Nov 23, 2022 19:20
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I very much do not like MMOs of the EverQuest/WoW style, though I enjoyed Ultima Online. I do like dickin' around in Morrowind / Oblivion / Skyrim, doing janky things and climbing mountains in unintended manners and stealing/killing/running from people. Sometimes NPCs. Would I enjoy Elder Scrolls Online?
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Nov 23, 2022 22:57
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Probably not. While they've made effort to put some of the trappings of the elder scrolls games in, it is still very much an MMORPG.
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Nov 23, 2022 23:06
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Stealing from npcs is totally viable, they actually did that part pretty well. It’s very much a theme park MMO though. Fun to tour the world but you’ll probably get tired of it quickly if you’re not a fan of the genre.
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Nov 23, 2022 23:18
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Thanks -- that's all I needed to hear.
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Nov 23, 2022 23:22
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I wish I was better at putting into words what fundamental thing it is about MMOs that repels me. No matter which one I've tried, they all feel so... artificial and stiff in a way somehow completely distinct from the various artificial and stiff single-player games I've enjoyed over the years. Even basic "retrieve 15 songbird beaks" type missions feel more meaningful in the single-player games, why? MMOs have a hollowness to them, I think. It might just be that when I play games, I like to feel like I'm a fellow participant in a world, a world that's alive, NPCs and all. Immersion, if you will. MMOs tend to be very eager to remind you you're playing a videogame.
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Nov 24, 2022 06:34
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I think I know and recognize what you mean.
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Nov 24, 2022 07:43
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I think it's hard to feel immersed when guys named Lootdemon420balls are bunny hopping around every 100 yards
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Nov 24, 2022 07:44
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I think MMOs suffer from a lack of tighter quest writing/polish since MMOs are more prone to people skipping past the quest dialogues and the like. Single-player RPGs are just better at crafting stories since everything doesn’t have to align uniformly across millions of accounts (not to mention the coding limitations). An MMO is more like having a job compared to SP only. I play both and I enjoy them for different reasons. I like MMOs because it can be fun to gently caress around with people in a multiplayer RPG environment but I play RPGs for the story. Space Jam fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Nov 24, 2022 |
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Nov 24, 2022 08:06
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Hammer Bro. posted:I very much do not like MMOs of the EverQuest/WoW style, though I enjoyed Ultima Online. The theme park analogy someone used for this is very apt. I feel the same way, and loved UO, because it was designed to be more of a simulation, or a digital version of dungeons and dragons, in the sense that its goal was to give you a world to make your own story. Your character was just another resident in the world, there was no plot to speak of to revolve around you. The others feel artificial because your character is a freshly made copy of a single player game's protagonist. They give you plot quests and storylines and things where you are involved in epic world changing events, except everyone else is doing those exact same things, just at different times. Its jarring to bump into people who are much higher level and can causally discuss or dismiss whatever it is you're working on. UO's greatest strength was also its greatest weakness. The design philosophy of "go anywhere, do anything" made it extremely versatile. Wander around and be a great hero, sure. Or, be an extreme rear end in a top hat by murdering other players and stealing their entire inventory off their corpse, then find their house and rob that blind too. UO didnt want to restrict players artificially from being bad people because the idea was the good guys would band together to punish the bad guys. Except that couldnt happen because death was a mere inconvenience, so the only way to punish rear end in a top hat players was to become one yourself, but you were at a disadvantage because they have already figured out how to be the most efficent at it. People only put up with it becausd they didnt have any other options. Then Everquest came out and the sheep all migrated, leaving nothing but starving wolves. All MMOs since have learned from that early example and had to put in artificial restrictions on player actions to minimize griefing, some so severe it ruins any semblence of the idea of actually living in a fantasy world.
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Nov 24, 2022 15:34
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They are dumb for other reasons but survival sims like Rust or Conan kinda took up the simulation mantle from UO.
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Nov 24, 2022 15:52
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ESO was tolerable as a semi-mindless go around clearing out points of interest and doing quests type game, and some of the DLC stuff had some proper flair, but at the end of the day it's unfortunately still an MMO with a strong Elder Scrolls flavor rather than anything deeper.
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Nov 24, 2022 17:14
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Subscription MMOs are designed specifically to waste as much of your time as possible. Plus they're psychologically manipulative to string you along and get you logging back in.
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Nov 24, 2022 17:42
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Ofecks posted:Subscription MMOs are designed specifically to waste as much of your time as possible. Plus they're psychologically manipulative to string you along and get you logging back in. It’s this. As long as you play Elden Ring or whatever past the refund window, the amount of time you play the game doesn’t affect how much money you pay for it. MMOs can’t take that attitude, because a player who has run out of content is a player who will cancel their monthly subscription, and since (good) content is expensive to produce, they have to lock players into an artificially protracted treadmill to keep them from finishing the content too quickly. This is also why they have to aggressively avoid fun systems-driven ways for players to interact with the world like Morrowind and Oblivion’s spellmaking system, because a player might use those to circumvent the mandatory hours. Any ways for players to advance faster must be monetized or else patched out, which is why you have stupid immersion-obliterating stuff like pants your character can’t wear because you’re not high enough level, or Soulbound equipment that cannot be traded except possibly for real money on a sanctioned auction house where the publisher takes a cut.
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Nov 24, 2022 18:06
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imo the worst thing about most MMO's is that their basic format in and of itself is very immersion-breaking and pretty much eliminates most possibilities for actual role-playing, most of them boil down to loot collection with a chatroom and this has been a problem with online games since before the "MMO" was even invented. like back in the early 90's i used to play and write for MUD's, i.e. text-based multiplayer games that were ostensibly about roleplaying, but even in that very small and very nerdy world, games where people focused on actual roleplaying were a minority and more on the mush/moo side of things, whereas the more mainstream diku/rom side of things became known as "hack n'slash" muds for people who just wanted to kill monsters, level up, and casually chat with each other about poo poo that had nothing to do with the game world. i would love to see an immersive multiplayer online elder scrolls game (or fantasy game in general) where roleplaying is centered and players build lives in the game world, starting out as a simple hunter or soldier or hedge wizard or whatever in a remote area and eventually gaining power and influence, with the more dedicated players becoming the lords of towns and cities and making actual decisions about what happens in the world and so on, but it's not really viable to do in a way that makes financial or practical sense in a mainstream game because that sort of thing really only works with a small dedicated community, whereas modern mmo's have tens of thousands of people logged in at any given time
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Nov 24, 2022 20:10
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Earwicker posted:i would love to see an immersive multiplayer online elder scrolls game (or fantasy game in general) where roleplaying is centered and players build lives in the game world, starting out as a simple hunter or soldier or hedge wizard or whatever in a remote area and eventually gaining power and influence, with the more dedicated players becoming the lords of towns and cities and making actual decisions about what happens in the world and so on, but it's not really viable to do in a way that makes financial or practical sense in a mainstream game because that sort of thing really only works with a small dedicated community, whereas modern mmo's have tens of thousands of people logged in at any given time Any system that bequeaths tangible authority/power to players based on "dedication" really just means it's a fiefdom for people who can afford to play for 20 hours a day every day, and such designs inevitably attract the worst examples of humanity without fail.
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Nov 24, 2022 21:22
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John Murdoch posted:Any system that bequeaths tangible authority/power to players based on "dedication" really just means it's a fiefdom for people who can afford to play for 20 hours a day every day, and such designs inevitably attract the worst examples of humanity without fail. i was speaking in idealist terms, "dedication" would be more based on the skill and depth of one's roleplaying, not the raw number of hours someone puts in. but again, that sort of thing is only really possible in a small devoted community, not a huge commercial enterprise
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Nov 24, 2022 22:36
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Ngl, fantasy eve does sound fun
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Nov 24, 2022 22:45
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Wasn't that something that Black Desert Online tried to do? It worked out poorly from what I've heard.
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Nov 25, 2022 00:03
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It was one of the original premises of Star Wars Online as well, that becoming a Jedi would be a rare and difficult thing to accomplish, despite the fact that a large number of the player base would want that. I don't recall if that ever panned out as planned.
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Nov 25, 2022 03:34
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Mylan posted:It was one of the original premises of Star Wars Online as well, that becoming a Jedi would be a rare and difficult thing to accomplish, despite the fact that a large number of the player base would want that. I don't recall if that ever panned out as planned. They eventually gave up and let anyone make force sensitive slots
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Nov 25, 2022 03:39
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Mylan posted:It was one of the original premises of Star Wars Online as well, that becoming a Jedi would be a rare and difficult thing to accomplish, despite the fact that a large number of the player base would want that. I don't recall if that ever panned out as planned. it worked in that if you were an obsessive player you could become a jedi and if you weren't then you couldn't. then they let anyone make a jedi, but that only lasted for a little while because they immediately started work on a complete retooling of the game into a WoW clone SWG did do a lot of the stuff a non-spaceship EVE would need to do, but it also did a lot of important stuff badly and was generally in the category of mmo that you played as an interactive chatroom more than for the game experience specifically. like every old mmo people's best memories are all focused on social moments that relied on the naive cyberenthusiasm of the mid-00s to ever happen in the first place
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Nov 25, 2022 04:22
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Jazerus posted:it worked in that if you were an obsessive player you could become a jedi and if you weren't then you couldn't.
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Nov 25, 2022 15:21
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Single player games can balance themselves in ways that remain fun while MMOs tend to be overbalanced for a reason and not have anything really interesting to do or find, giving you less reason to actually explore. Just an ever increasing numbers treadmill, and everything in the game serves that treadmill. I'll give ESO that it tries very hard to do this, but the combat and gearing really kinda suck and feel weightless even compared to vanilla Skyrim. In some ways, it feels like an Ubisoft game with elder scrolls flavor, given how the zones work.
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Nov 25, 2022 17:56
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you know, I might be the only person who thinks this, but I think it would be cool if the next Elder Scrolls game had matchlocks. Weird early firearms would be an interesting thing to have. Imagine wielding one of these.
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Dec 6, 2022 08:38
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samcarsten posted:you know, I might be the only person who thinks this, but I think it would be cool if the next Elder Scrolls game had matchlocks. Weird early firearms would be an interesting thing to have. Imagine wielding one of these. Yeah I'm looking forward to Avowed.
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Dec 6, 2022 08:46
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:Yeah I'm looking forward to Avowed. wait, those are in avowed?
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Dec 6, 2022 09:05
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What would a gun do in TES that a basic fire spell won't?
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Dec 6, 2022 09:32
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samcarsten posted:wait, those are in avowed? Well not handgonnes, but matchlock arquebuses are. At least they were in Pillars of Eternity which shares its setting.
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Dec 6, 2022 09:43
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Having magic and guns was pretty fun in Fable.
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Dec 6, 2022 10:20
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Tankbuster posted:What would a gun do in TES that a basic fire spell won't? i don't play mage, so...
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Dec 6, 2022 10:36
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samcarsten posted:i don't play mage, so... No one at Bethesda does either.
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Dec 6, 2022 11:24
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Tankbuster posted:What would a gun do in TES that a basic fire spell won't? Send a metal sphere at high speeds to pierce the flesh of your enemies.
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Dec 6, 2022 14:14
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Considering how weak spell damage is in Skyrim even a crappy bow is often better and you won't run out of arrows as quickly. I've gotten quite a bit further in my Oblivion game with no fast travel. It's been pretty fun and not at all tedious as could be expected. Unlike, say for example, Skyrim the map isn't covered in steep cliffs and mountains except around the edges so it's actually possible to walk places in fairly straight lines, you can run on water easily and most importantly you aren't as slow as a drowsy slug in syrup. I've raised my speed a few times on level ups and gotten athletics past 50 and there is no point in even the fastest horse as I zoom across the landscape. Made a bit of progress in all of the guilds, the main quest line and some side quests. I found all the ten ancestors for the collector idiot and wrapped up his chain. It's weird. You have to visit 12-13 ayleid ruins and it's nowhere near as painful or boring as even having to do 2-3 dwemer ruins in Skyrim. They're somehow less linear corridors, less full of pointless clutter, about the same blandness and the enemies have vastly more variation. Ayleid ruins can have: -animals -bandits -conjurors + daedra -necromancers + undead -undead -vampires + undead Dwemer ruins can have: -bandits + constructs + falmer -constructs + falmer
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Dec 6, 2022 14:19
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Poil posted:less full of pointless clutter I keep thinking about this a lot w/r/t modern games in general. Back then you needed to keep poo poo relatively simple so the game didn't chug, now every game is 3000% detail and looks like rear end and then 99% of it is uninteractive or pointless anyway. Of course, within the Bethesda game definition, they immediately followed up with Fallout 3, the king of pointless clutter.
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Dec 6, 2022 23:33
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I'm firmly against there being any Dwemer ruins in Skyrim at all. The Dwemer are Morrowind natives with some minor bases near Hammerfell.
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Dec 6, 2022 23:42
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My computer can't run Crusader Kings 3, so I can't play Elder Kings 2. But Crusader Kings 2 is free on Steam, and Elder Kings 1 is on the Steam Workshop, so if anyone wanted to, they could be conquering Mundus right now in a pretty good Paradox grand strategy game for free ninety nine. I started as a guy who only owned one-third of Solstheim, now only a few hundred years later in 2E 450 I'm invading Akavir in the east, my Skaal raiding parties are trying to slow down the inevitable Aldmeri takeover of Valenwood and Elsweyr in the west, and some lucky marriages got me a few counties alongside the Niben in the middle. My advice is to always join the mage's guild if you can. FYI if it's a dealbreaker for you, Serana won't marry you in this game either
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Dec 7, 2022 05:55
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That sounds like a lot of fun. I watched a video of the Elderscrolls mod for EU4 but just Skyrim had worse than HRE levels of provinces everywhere. They had squeezed in a lot just between Whiterun and Riverwood. Windhelm was an entire province and across the bridge (where the stables are in these games) was an entirely different province. Also the start date was I don't know how many hundreds of years in the past.John Murdoch posted:I keep thinking about this a lot w/r/t modern games in general. Back then you needed to keep poo poo relatively simple so the game didn't chug, now every game is 3000% detail and looks like rear end and then 99% of it is uninteractive or pointless anyway.
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Dec 7, 2022 14:19
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:Really, we should be able to destroy factions after a certain point. Kill everyone at the area, it's now a Daedra site I really dig the Lawbringer mod for Skyrim for this. It's a small thing but being able to clear out a bandit base and have it be taken over by local guards makes the world feel that little bit more reactive and that you're making a difference, even if the end result is just swapping npc spawns around
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Dec 7, 2022 19:16
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