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Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Col. Roy Campbell posted:

Hold on, hold on: Akavir is the future? So the future invaded the past? And then I guess the past invaded the future?

What the gently caress is going on?

DRAGON BREAK.

That's what's going on. TES lore is a delightful pot of insanity where everything that could potentially happen is sometimes true. This is the least bizarre thing about the setting as well.

Archonex fucked around with this message at Feb 2, 2015 around 23:48

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Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

Col. Roy Campbell posted:

Hold on, hold on: Akavir is the future? So the future invaded the past? And then I guess the past invaded the future?

What the gently caress is going on?

No, the past is either Yokuda or Atmora, I forget. Tamriel is now.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013



I really wanna see Elsweyr get the next game, although it's almost certainly gonna be Hammerfell or Alinor. Khajiit are pretty cool in the lore. I liked that one book in Skyrim which tells a story where a Khajiit becomes a sort of avatar for Lorkhan and joins Wulfharth in the Battle for Red Mountain.

SunAndSpring fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 00:01

Scyantific
Feb 13, 2011

Awaken, Tribunal


Paarthurnax pretty much explains it that the Elder Scrolls are basically a way to simulate what happens at any given time. So yeah, TES is beyond batshit insane and it's probably likely that Akavir is some future thing.

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013



Scyantific posted:

Paarthurnax pretty much explains it that the Elder Scrolls are basically a way to simulate what happens at any given time.

Unless you use them to try and figure out what the gently caress happened during a Dragon Break. Then you get the prophetic equivalent of an "ERROR: FILE NOT FOUND" message.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011


SunAndSpring posted:

I really wanna see Elsweyr get the next game, although it's almost certainly gonna be Hammerfell or Alinor. Khajiit are pretty cool in the lore.

Vampires are also cool in the lore, but we all know how dawnguard turned out.

I always figured akavir was literally another continent. And that it was probably just the atlantean, levitating, necromancer slug/frog dudes keeping another invasion from coming. That or the constant warfare between the snakes and cat dragons.

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

On the one hand, I like the idea that Akavir is a future time, not a place, because it better explains why the Nerevarine left and never came back, even when his homeland that (s)he swore to protect was threatened. On the other hand, I don't think Akavir being a time was ever alluded to in any TES game, and I'm loathe to take Kirkbride bullshit alone.

Further, Report: Disaster at Ionith pretty clearly describes Akavir as a physical place across an ocean from Tamriel. It talks about "the conquest of the small island kingdoms that lie between Tamriel and Akavir" and "the construction of the many large, ocean-going transports that would be needed for the final crossing to Akavir, in which the Navy was previously deficient." Unless island kingdoms are an elaborate reference to pocket dimensions of time? and ocean-going transports mean spaceships and the Navy actually means NASA, I'm pretty sure Akavir is a place.

Lima
Jun 17, 2012



Scyantific posted:

Paarthurnax pretty much explains it that the Elder Scrolls are basically a way to simulate what happens at any given time. So yeah, TES is beyond batshit insane and it's probably likely that Akavir is some future thing.

They're whimsical mcguffins made to insert whatever things the writers experienced during their latest drug haze. Or to be minor faction buffs in ESO

An Accounting of the Scrolls posted:

...Turn to the repository behind you, and tell me how many Scrolls are locked therein."
I ran my fingers over the metal casings, tallying each rounded edge that they encountered. I turned back -- "Fourteen," I said.
"Hand me the eighth one," he said, reaching out his hand.
I guided the cylinder into his palm, and he gave a slight nod to acknowledge it. "Now, count again."
Humoring him, I again passed my hands over the Scrolls, but could not believe what I was feeling.
"Now... now there are eighteen!" I gasped.
The old monk chuckled, his cheeks pushing up his blindfold until it folded over itself. "And in fact," he said, "there always were."

Schubalts
Nov 25, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life,
I think I've gone too far.


Cantorsdust posted:

On the one hand, I like the idea that Akavir is a future time, not a place, because it better explains why the Nerevarine left and never came back, even when his homeland that (s)he swore to protect was threatened. On the other hand, I don't think Akavir being a time was ever alluded to in any TES game, and I'm loathe to take Kirkbride bullshit alone.

Further, Report: Disaster at Ionith pretty clearly describes Akavir as a physical place across an ocean from Tamriel. It talks about "the conquest of the small island kingdoms that lie between Tamriel and Akavir" and "the construction of the many large, ocean-going transports that would be needed for the final crossing to Akavir, in which the Navy was previously deficient." Unless island kingdoms are an elaborate reference to pocket dimensions of time? and ocean-going transports mean spaceships and the Navy actually means NASA, I'm pretty sure Akavir is a place.

The Nerevarine leaving Tamriel for Akavir was pretty much just to keep them out of future games/books.

Akavir being a "time" and not a foreign continent is something only said by Kirkbride, and not even hinted at at all by the games. You could just as well say that places like Atmora and Yokuda are also different "times", but nobody says that because Kirkbride hasn't said it.

Nasgate
Jun 7, 2011


Who's Kirkbride and why do people care when he's obviously making poo poo up out of thin air?

Cantorsdust
Aug 9, 2008

Infinitely many points, but zero length.

Top Cop

Nasgate posted:

Who's Kirkbride and why do people care when he's obviously making poo poo up out of thin air?

One of the main writers (the main writer?) of Morrowind, notable for writing the 36 Lessons of Vivec and most of the weird stuff in the lore. Did great work when he was on the team and had other people to filter. Was fired after Morrowind for being an alcoholic, and has since consulted with them for lore stuff on Oblivion and Skyrim. Continues to write glorified fanfic of Vivec and friends, including c0da, a TES themed sci-fi where the Thalmor succeeded in killing humanity, Numidium returned with the dwarves and destroyed Tamriel, and the dark elves under ALMSIVI live on the moon. Also Talos is now the universe's operating system. Yeah.

edit: Reading over what I wrote, that came out pretty harsh. I really, really like Kirkbride's writing, I just don't care for c0da, and I hate the way that fanboys have taken it upon themselves to ordain it canon without any actual blessing from Bethesda. Kirkbride's ideas are the fundamental ideas behind TES lore, and I like reading them to get a background. But c0da being canon effectively takes a poo poo on everything the player has ever done in a TES game by ordaining that all of it gets destroyed by Numidium and the Thalmor win in the end, and I don't like that at all.

Cantorsdust fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 00:51

Gyshall
Feb 24, 2009

Had a couple of drinks.
Saw a couple of things.


Lima posted:

They're whimsical mcguffins made to insert whatever things the writers experienced during their latest drug haze. Or to be minor faction buffs in ESO

lmao

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao




Numidium being a time traveling robot capable of destroying the world is pretty much stated as such in the games, though it is buried in the books.

Also crazy time paradoxes aren't really out of the realm of possibility as the God of Time is a schizophrenic.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


Technically in MK lore there are no gods, mortals, everyone's just a different personality of a massive schizophrenic Godhead and the Gods (and those who achieve CHIM) are the ones who realize that and can alter the dream to their will.

Superstring
Jul 22, 2007

I thought I was going insane for a second.


Sky Shadowing posted:

Technically in MK lore there are no gods, mortals, everyone's just a different personality of a massive schizophrenic Godhead and the Gods (and those who achieve CHIM) are the ones who realize that and can alter the dream to their will.

And c0da is his big opus to tell people that whatever they want to be canon, can be canon.

Which is, y'know, convenient when he does it with a story where his self insert marries his other self insert.

TEAYCHES
Jun 23, 2002



So basically this guy is like the Elder Scrolls George Lucas who comes up with some amazingly creative poo poo but has to be reigned in by a serious development team for it to be structured into something coherent.

Ojjeorago
Sep 21, 2008

I had a dream, too. It wasn't pleasant, though ... I dreamt I was a moron...


Gary’s Answer

No, George Lucas is better than Kirkbride. He's more like Elder Scrolls lady who wrote the Twilight books.

Berke Negri
Feb 15, 2012

Les Ricains tuent et moi je mue
Mao Mao
Les fous sont rois et moi je bois
Mao Mao
Les bombes tonnent et moi je sonne
Mao Mao
Les bebes fuient et moi je fuis
Mao Mao




Sky Shadowing posted:

Technically in MK lore there are no gods, mortals, everyone's just a different personality of a massive schizophrenic Godhead and the Gods (and those who achieve CHIM) are the ones who realize that and can alter the dream to their will.

That's not really just MK lore, that's hinted at in the games as being the case: http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Black_Book:_Waking_Dreams

EgoEgress
Mar 12, 2012

I'm deep yo


I like Oblivion about equally to Skyrim. They both have their strengths and weaknesses, and offer unique experiences. I find Morrowind to be a very different beast from its two successors, so I don't usually judge it in comparison. Still haven't gotten around to Daggerfall or Arena- though I do want to try the former one day.

I've accepted that I have terrible taste and possibly brain problems.


I think Elsweyr/Valenwood would be great for TESVI, lots of weird and cool lore from there and hopefully it'd mean a resolution or at least a continuation of the Aldmeri Dominion thread. And the walking tree-city has apparently rooted itself so Bethesda's got a portion of their retcon work already done!

Honestly doubt they'd pick those provinces though, freaky cannibal elf tribes and bunches of different cat people are probably too "risky" for the series now. Hammerfell seems like the good bet- which wouldn't be a bad idea either. Still could mean more opportunity to beat up Thalmor!

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007

Save our dead gay forum you ungrateful nobs.

Hair Elf

EgoEgress posted:

Honestly doubt they'd pick those provinces though, freaky cannibal elf tribes and bunches of different cat people are probably too "risky" for the series now.

As much as I'd love to see a game set in one of those provinces, at the same time I really, really don't want this because I'm afraid they'd get the Oblivion treatment and we'd just get generic nature-loving elves living in a forest, or generic cat warriors.

Same reason I both love/hate the idea of a game in Akavir.

Guildenstern Mother
Mar 31, 2010

Why walk when you can ride?

Well, they at least kept the green pact going in eso, I doubt they'd retcon that out at least, we'll still have carnivore carnivorous elves smoking insect resin out of people's bones.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


WanderingMinstrel I posted:

Well, they at least kept the green pact going in eso, I doubt they'd retcon that out at least, we'll still have carnivore carnivorous elves smoking insect resin out of people's bones.

TESVI is presumably going to take place in the Fourth Era, so who knows if it would have survived in mainstream Bosmer society.

Man Whore
Jan 6, 2012

ASK ME ABOUT SPHERICAL CATS
=3





I'd like to see if the thalmor are doing some awful occupation type poo poo in Valenwood, like the strategic hamlet program.

Valenwood being fantasy Vietnam is actually really hilarious to me for some reason.

Kraven Moorhed
Jan 5, 2006

So wrong, yet so right.

Soiled Meat

GrumpyDoctor posted:

TESVI is presumably going to take place in the Fourth Era, so who knows if it would have survived in mainstream Bosmer society.
I'd love to see where you read that, if you can remember.

Man Whore posted:

Valenwood being fantasy Vietnam is actually really hilarious to me for some reason.


As far as I know, Valenwood also contains one of the last towers.

Kraven Moorhed fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 06:01

Chief Savage Man
Jul 19, 2010

i care, i'm listening, i can help you without giving any advice


Pillbug

My favorite RP TES playthroughs have been my guerrilla ones. It's a typical sneaky archer Bosmer with the conditions that I rack up huge bounties and ambush any guards and authority types I find out in the wilderness so that I have to carefully plan out my trips/raids into occupied places.

So yes, sign me up for fantasy Vietnam.

THE PENETRATOR
Jul 27, 2014

by Lowtax


Cantorsdust posted:

One of the main writers (the main writer?) of Morrowind, notable for writing the 36 Lessons of Vivec and most of the weird stuff in the lore. Did great work when he was on the team and had other people to filter. Was fired after Morrowind for being an alcoholic, and has since consulted with them for lore stuff on Oblivion and Skyrim. Continues to write glorified fanfic of Vivec and friends, including c0da, a TES themed sci-fi where the Thalmor succeeded in killing humanity, Numidium returned with the dwarves and destroyed Tamriel, and the dark elves under ALMSIVI live on the moon. Also Talos is now the universe's operating system. Yeah.

edit: Reading over what I wrote, that came out pretty harsh. I really, really like Kirkbride's writing, I just don't care for c0da, and I hate the way that fanboys have taken it upon themselves to ordain it canon without any actual blessing from Bethesda. Kirkbride's ideas are the fundamental ideas behind TES lore, and I like reading them to get a background. But c0da being canon effectively takes a poo poo on everything the player has ever done in a TES game by ordaining that all of it gets destroyed by Numidium and the Thalmor win in the end, and I don't like that at all.

not only writer but also concept artist



he good

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Zoe posted:

As much as I'd love to see a game set in one of those provinces, at the same time I really, really don't want this because I'm afraid they'd get the Oblivion treatment and we'd just get generic nature-loving elves living in a forest, or generic cat warriors.

Same reason I both love/hate the idea of a game in Akavir.

For all the poo poo TESO gets it really isn't that bad lore wise. There's a ton of little lore nods scattered everywhere. And even the most batshit stuff seems to get some sort of explanation.

Plus, you can go to one of the Bosmer provinces. And seeing the Bosmer in action on their homeland is amazing if you bother to actually chat people up. At one point I decided to talk to a Bosmer chef who was busy cooking at a party. She opened her dialogue with "It's not a party until someone gets eaten! Try my food?" in the most enthusiastic voice ever.

Archonex fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 10:06

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

I had me a vision
there wasn't any television



Nap Ghost

I read C0da, welp

Moryrie
Sep 24, 2012


Cantorsdust posted:

One of the main writers (the main writer?) of Morrowind, notable for writing the 36 Lessons of Vivec and most of the weird stuff in the lore.

Eh.. not really the main writer.. he's like in the top 5 writers? but he didn't write most of the in-game books (that would be Ted Peterson), he didn't work on the main quest (Ken Rolston), and he didn't do the faction questlines (good ones by Douglas Goodall, meh ones by Todd Howard). Basically he just does occasional alien-crazy stuff, and a whole lot of other people fill out the rest. Man honestly gets wayyyy more credit than he deserves because he interacts with people who cling onto his every word and has a stupid self insert that he won't STFU about.

Also worth noting the ONLY dude who still works at Bethesda that I mentioned is Todd Howard. Everyone else left after Morrowind, or after Oblivion. Read more here.

Sekenr
Dec 12, 2013



Atrayonis posted:

Pelinal Whitestrake was a cyborg from the future. KINMUNE is a mining robot from the future (the plebs who don't know all the speshul lore know it as Queen Ayrenn).
Are there any others? I guess the rebuilt Akulakhan from c0da mighty qualify as well, seeing as the Nerevarine had it and they were in Akavir (which we know is not a place at all but the future/a future kalpa).

Ahaha, thanks for pointing me in that direction. Here is some profound insight The Imperial library offers on the subject:

quote:

But then the Hist-Jilian wars spilled out of a Wheelian rip into the SubSys slice of 'brane-space, and things changed for Kinmune. With the outer colonies separated from Nu-Mundelbright chronoculic sync-net anchors, maintenance of space-time beyond the F-Shores faltered. As the barely-there Hist blink-root-ship armada fired an artillery barrage of 16th-dimensional mathematics at their Jilian enemies, impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites like some garish TalOSian hologram, only without the irony. Kinmune's synthetic body, caught in one of the blasts, suddenly found itself in the Ysgramorim, her mind an aggregate of the residual personalities of her last several users.

Ah OK than Thanks Kirkbride, I kinda assumed that impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites ironically.

Sekenr fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 10:36

SunAndSpring
Dec 4, 2013



Moryrie posted:

Eh.. not really the main writer.. he's like in the top 5 writers? but he didn't write most of the in-game books (that would be Ted Peterson), he didn't work on the main quest (Ken Rolston), and he didn't do the faction questlines (good ones by Douglas Goodall, meh ones by Todd Howard). Basically he just does occasional alien-crazy stuff, and a whole lot of other people fill out the rest. Man honestly gets wayyyy more credit than he deserves because he interacts with people who cling onto his every word and has a stupid self insert that he won't STFU about.

Also worth noting the ONLY dude who still works at Bethesda that I mentioned is Todd Howard. Everyone else left after Morrowind, or after Oblivion. Read more here.

Kurt Kuhlmann was convinced to return during Skyrim.

Whorelord
May 1, 2013

Jump into the well...


THE PENETRATOR posted:

not only writer but also concept artist



he good

sotha sil's expression makes this for me

Archonex
May 2, 2012

MY OPINION IS SEERS OF THE THRONE PROPAGANDA IGNORE MY GNOSIS-IMPAIRED RAMBLINGS

Sekenr posted:

Ah OK than Thanks Kirkbride, I kinda assumed that impossipoint detonations stippled across the Ix-Egg and its clutch-satellites ironically.

I'm reminded of a joke about how some writers like to merge two words together in sci stories to make the setting seem more futuristic. Like a laser cannon becomes a lascannon and whatnot. This guy is going above and beyond that. He's taking terms from a fantasy series and transporting them into a sci-fi medium so he can merge them together or use them like it's no big deal.

And just for a further mindfuck, those same sci-fi terms sometimes get oblique mentions in the fantasy version of the setting when someones travel back in time to gently caress things up and causes the resident god of time to have an epileptic fit.

At least this poo poo only barely gets referenced in the actual canon. Reading his stuff makes me think the dude actually invented skooma in real life. Which is probably why only ubernerds sperg about it.

Archonex fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 15:43

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


I'm not entirely unconvinced that MK knows exactly how crazy his stuff is, doesn't really care about it, and is just trying to see how far along people will go with it.

But yeah, MK lore is just fine where it is, there's no need to inject more of it into the game.

Also as a side note and a way to rip on Oblivion, Mankar Camoran's speech to you at the end od the game was written by MK, who just sent in a first draft with a few factual inaccuracies, and was just thrown in, which is why some Princes are associated with the wrong Realms.

raminasi
Jan 25, 2005

a last drink with no ice


Kraven Moorhed posted:

I'd love to see where you read that, if you can remember.

I was just inferring from the fact that the "main" series keeps moving forward in time.

Sky Shadowing
Feb 13, 2012

At least we're not the Thalmor (yet)


Yeah, chronologically this is the order (with some major events thrown in):

2E
FALL OF REMANS
Online
RISE OF TIBER SEPTIM
Redguard

3E
Arena/Battlespire
Daggerfall
Morrowind
Oblivion

4E
The Novels
THE GREAT WAR
Skyrim

axolotl farmer
May 17, 2007

I had me a vision
there wasn't any television



Nap Ghost

9E

People with television sets for heads rushing around Times Square in Tomorrowind province.

Atrayonis
Jul 6, 2008

Godspeed, brave canary


MK lore is terrible when it's unchecked and the guy himself is an rear end in a top hat, who tends to draw dicks with people's names under them on his tumblr when he's feeling spiteful. Also, from back in the day I learned that apparently he mixes anti-depressants with alcohol, which makes all the "drug coffin" rumors unfortunately true.

People lap up his stuff because it's like a gnostic revelation - the realization that everything that happens and is written is merely background noise that you can't unravel unless you have the apocryphal key to the secret knowledge. This of course appeals to already closely-knit groups who are given the ability to be an elite, even if it's just being lore masters.



Not that the games after Morrowind have been any better, they are just the other extreme. Bethesda is godawful incompetent at implementing their own lore. For example someone high uip in there (not Todd though, supposedly) decided that the religious complexity of Morrowind was a mistake, hence why we have an all-nine divines world in Oblivion and Shor and the Nordic pantheon have been completely forgotten in Skyrim.

Moryrie
Sep 24, 2012


SunAndSpring posted:

Kurt Kuhlmann was convinced to return during Skyrim.

But I didn't mention him. xP

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Agents are GO!
Dec 29, 2004

In my day, we crossed burning sand every day -- and liked it!

The best things to come out of MK's lore, other than Morrowind of course, are crazy-rear end mods that follow it, like the Wheels of Lull.

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