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Homestar Runner
Oct 9, 2012

This is the best videogame
I have ever played!


Cochran conspired to vote out Brenda when she gave up the family reunion reward -- a somewhat naive but super unselfish move on her part which the edit purposely makes look like a big deal -- and despite his rationalisations would have got him nowhere if not for the fact that Erik decided to drop dead.


Cochran would have been no better off with Eddie / Erik around than Brenda -- quite the opposite if anything -- it was an rear end in a top hat move that he figured would look like a "big move" cuz he's a socially awkward shut-in. Everyone on the jury visibly hated it, and he completely lost Erik. The game absolutely worked out for him but that's really only because he ended up next to the goatiest goats who ever goated in the final 3. Had Eddie or Erik survived, which was entirely likely because he couldn't possibly have been banking on winning final reward (lol), there's no way he would've won.

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xbilkis
Apr 11, 2005

god qb
me
jay hova


At no point should voting out a threatening player be considered an unacceptable move, particularly when there are only six people left. If Brenda wants to be mad at whoever voted her out, fine, but that vote was done completely unmaliciously even if it just happened to come after Brenda gave up a reward. Brenda was pursuing a final three without Cochran; he doesn't owe anything to her to keep her in another round just out of courtesy.

e: Erik was a starving dunce, and Eddie was a dunce who seemed down to take Cochran to the F3 with Sherri. Brenda was comfortably the biggest threat of the three

Homestar Runner
Oct 9, 2012

This is the best videogame
I have ever played!


But the (rear end in a top hat) move actually put him in a waaaay worse position. I disagree that Brenda was the clear strongest threat, Erik looked like he had bounced back -- and was just coming off a dominant challenge victory -- and his death by epilepsy is not exactly something Cochran is frickin planning for. Aside from that, Eddie is a constant challenge threat and let's not kid ourselves, the money is always on him to beat out Cochran. If Erik's brain doesn't implode, then the perceived "strength" of the threat is ultimately irrelevant anyway because any 2 outta 3 combination of Brenda/Erik/Eddie is gonna beat him at least once out of two remaining challenges -- Cochran's entire game at this point would then be reliant on numbers and rep, which by the way he just destroyed with his (rear end in a top hat) Brenda vote out.


Here's how I imagine things playing out if Erik doesn't :rip:. Erik is definitely not voting with Cochran at this point, and would likely indulge Cochran's "big game move" and convince noted dumbass/flipper/goat Sherri that she needs to join he and Eddie in making a big move themselves, by voting Cochran out. Also, the final challenge features a little bit of physicality and some block building/balancing, which Erik likely wins because it is absolutely in his wheelhouse. Cochran gets ousted.


Even if, as you say, Cochran were to somehow survive and Erik being around meant that Cochran would have to bring Eddie into the final 3, given that we're now dealing with two remaining immunity challenges and tribal councils, he loses to Eddie in that scenario all day. I agree that Eddie's not the sharpest cat but this would end up being a popularity contest -- and Cochran ain't getting Erik's or Brenda's or even Reynold's vote -- and so I think Eddie's ultimately gonna be more popular.


e. Sidenote, Brenda took it like a champ. If it were me, hoo boy :argh:

Homestar Runner fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jun 2, 2015

Robot Mugabe
Oct 13, 2012


that's a pretty compelling argument actually. after that tribal vote, Cochran probably doesn't win without Eric being medically out of the game. huh, guess he did get lucky

ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

I feel like Andrea handled being voted out best out of anyone post-merge. She was voted out with an idol in her pocket and had nothing but 'holy crap guys, you totally got me. Good job.'.

I think she's one of the craftier female players we've had the past few seasons at least. Not sure she would be able to go for the gold if they ever brought her back a third time (and I don't think she's popular enough to warrant it), however.

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



I've always thought Cochran got lucky and is one of the weaker winners. He really benefited from being being brought into this group of non-players and goats gathered by Phillip. None of them had the game or skill to make the most of that, except for maybe Andrea. Corinne was a bad player who blew the coup she and Malcolm were organizing by moving too quickly and trusting the wrong people. Malcolm became a target way early so he never had a chance without pulling a Mike before such a thing had been proven possible. Erik just up and died. And Dawn and Sherri existed to be super goats.

I'm not angry at Cochran or anything. He played dirty and I don't much like his personality but he's not Russell or anything. I was just never very impressed by him. He's a competent game player, which gave him an edge on a terrible cast, but man did that season leave me cold.

Also, his sitcom is terrible.

EngineerJoe
Aug 8, 2004
-=whore=-




STAC Goat posted:

Also, his sitcom is terrible.

He did a live video stream at a wedding on periscope a few weeks ago and I told him that.. He thought it was pretty funny. I felt pretty bad and apologized. :(

Propaganda Machine
Jan 2, 2005

Truthiness!

ApplesandOranges posted:

I feel like Andrea handled being voted out best out of anyone post-merge. She was voted out with an idol in her pocket and had nothing but 'holy crap guys, you totally got me. Good job.'.

I think she's one of the craftier female players we've had the past few seasons at least. Not sure she would be able to go for the gold if they ever brought her back a third time (and I don't think she's popular enough to warrant it), however.

I never liked her. I think she looks decent by comparison to the dummies she played with on Redemption Island. Jaime from China fits the archetype and is more compelling, if not a bit clumsy.

Overdrift
Jul 17, 2006

This is Fatherman! He fights crime to earn Sonboy's respect! Is it working?



I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out.

KKKLIP ART
Sep 3, 2004



Overdrift posted:

I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out.

I remember being disgusted but also cheering along during this one. I'd also like to see it come back.

Ten Wasted Dollars
Oct 24, 2010


Overdrift posted:

I'm watching Amazon for the first time and I just got to the Pirahna beef shank challenge. This has got to be the best challenge ever and I hope it comes back in some form. A highlight for me was people pulling pieces of meat stuck in someone else's teeth out.

They did it again in Fiji and South Pacific. In SP they really go into detail about how nasty of a challenge it was. Most of the contestants received mouth injuries in one way or another

Tyree
Sep 10, 2003

STRETCH

STRETCH

STRETCH


I just finished re-watching fiji and have a few thoughts.

Why didn't yau-man offer dreamz a vote for cassandra if he gives him the immunity necklace? I could also say earl, but I don't see yau voting for earl at all. It would at least be a tie (maybe even yau gets earl to vote cassandra), and dreamz would probably beat cassandra in a fire making contest.

Imagine the alt-history of dreamz actually giving yau the necklace. The final tribal council would be much better. Based on the vote at the reunion, yau would win, but we all know that is hard to take as fact. Earl still might win, but it would at least be a good FTC. The other big change would be dreamz probably coming back for either fans vs favorites or maybe even heroes vs villains. Imagine the boner Jeff and casting would have over him honoring the deal. Dreamz could take yaus spot in FvF or maybe James spot in HvV. James could come back for Philippines taking russell's spot.

TASTE THE PAIN!!
May 18, 2004



Somebody posted a link to the first episode of The Island a while back, I watched that and then caught the second episode live. In two episodes, there've been two major freakouts and two guys have had to leave due to lack of water only 4 days in. The first guy was a real piece of work with a huge chip on his shoulder, would have been quite the character on Survivor and it's worth it to watch at least the first one to see him lose it.

It's a decent show with some good moments apart from all that, I'll stick around.

DoggPickle
Jan 16, 2004

LAFFO


Okay so I am super super late, but I did read all of your comments. (I'm playing awful survivor and I'm down to the last 5 :black101:

Having played it now, in a weird internet version, there is an awful lot of luck involved. You have to roll with the odd punches, but who the heck can come back from getting stuck with a team of horrible people? I don't like Mike at ALL. but who the crap else am I supposed to route for? I can't believe Shirin and her whiney butt is coming back. I hated her, then liked her, then finally decided she was a stupid whiny bitch, nomatter the circumstance. I will put $20 bucks Amazon or whatever that she is in the first 3 out next season? Anyone want to bet me? :downs:

Capt. Supermarket
Sep 30, 2007


DoggPickle posted:

I can't believe Shirin and her whiney butt is coming back. I hated her, then liked her, then finally decided she was a stupid whiny bitch, nomatter the circumstance. I will put $20 bucks Amazon or whatever that she is in the first 3 out next season? Anyone want to bet me? :downs:

Somebody, maybe Rob Cesternino, said that her revelation that she's a millionaire during FTC might actually help her next season in that players might want to bring her to the end feeling that no one would want to give her more money. That makes sense but who the hell knows.

I've been thinking about this past season, and I really didn't like it at all. There were some good moments and some decent characters, but the Probst hype machine definitely didn't help and I just can't get behind Mike as a satisfying winner. I've always considered challenge-whoring your way to the end as your only means of staying in the game to be impossible, and now that Mike has done it, I still see it more as an anomaly than anything. To have someone who was supposed to be out of the game from the final 9 on to make the FTC only because of challenges that can be completely random is just really unsatisfying to me. I wasn't a huge fan of Mike's anyways so that didn't help either (although he's been pretty great post-game on podcasts and stuff).

I also can't help but compare it to SJDS, a season that was for the most part panned by fans and especially Probst. I think a lot of it might have been Cagayan hangover, which was an absolutely incredible season. I actually liked SJDS quite a bit as it was airing, but I think I like it even more now that we have another season pass that I can compare it to. I've come to the conclusion that Natalie was an absolutely incredible winner and I think I would put her in my top five best players of all time. Contrast her to Jeremy, who crashed and burned because "these people are so dumb". After he was voted out, she did the exact right thing in not making a stink about it and fit right back into the alliance. From there, she played against and accounted for the type of people she was in the game with more than anyone I can remember. Even if the people in the game were a bunch of dummies, Natalie realized it and managed to maneuver around them accordingly. The Alec vote switch should have hurt her big time, and I remember it was rightfully criticized on RHAP after it happened, but she correctly assessed that she could explain it away to Jon and ultimately got a "NBD" from him. The idol play both played up to the jury and importantly gained the loyalty of Jackie even though it was screwing over Baylor/Missy. It's just that she played so well against the hand she was dealt and the players she was put in the game with that I can't help but be really impressed. Put that together with a season that had some pretty interesting storylines and multiple players that had tradition "winner's edits" that got voted out at unpredictable times and in my eyes you have a pretty great season.

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



The Great Twist

Challenges that can be completely random? You're saying he rolled the dice umteen times and got lucky? Mike earned those challenge wins.

There are many viable ways to Sole Survivor and Mike made it through challenge domination, getting challenge threats out early and maintaining good relations with people who were voted out.

DoggPickle
Jan 16, 2004

LAFFO


Yeah, I agree with Met. I feel like there is a reason that those physical challenges exist, and somehow it has just become uncool to back the person who is actually good at them. It's a very complicated game, but having that immunity necklace doesn't just keep you safe; it gives you a little power for a couple days.

Otherwise, we'd just have survivor - survive high school. :lol:

But yeah, this season was pretty bad. In general, all the alliances stuck together even to their own detriment. There were a ton of awful people in general, and nobody that I actually wanted to win. The few interesting outliers (Carolyn and I already forgot his name) didn't DO anything correctly. This was a 3/10 season. Basically a partial 30 degree one thumb up.

SweetJahasus
Dec 23, 2005

Dragon Slayer
Samurai Warrior
Escape Artist
Viking
Chong-Ra Master

BE THE WIZARD


It was a good season and those saying it wasn't Betta Relax Bro!

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013



I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges.

That doesn't take anything away from Mike's ability to perform again and again and again, but his streak occurred largely because no one was even the slightest bit viable as a challenger.

Nexal
Apr 21, 2010

Moby - Extreme ways

8/10

Mainly cause the jerks got what they deserved and that in itself feels satisfying. Entertainment value was at the top.

Smorgasbord
Jun 18, 2004

Our review identified changes needed to be made and, in Stephen, we have a coach who has a reputation for demanding the highest standards.


Narcissus1916 posted:

I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges.

That doesn't take anything away from Mike's ability to perform again and again and again, but his streak occurred largely because no one was even the slightest bit viable as a challenger.

So Mike's wins don't count because he won so hard he made his opponents look like chumps?

Zesty
Jan 17, 2012



The Great Twist

Narcissus1916 posted:

I don't think Mike was a challenge beast. He just got super lucky that all of the people against him were gently caress-awful at challenges.

That doesn't take anything away from Mike's ability to perform again and again and again, but his streak occurred largely because no one was even the slightest bit viable as a challenger.

:jerkbag:

Met posted:

Challenges that can be completely random? You're saying he rolled the dice umteen times and got lucky? Mike earned those challenge wins.

There are many viable ways to Sole Survivor and Mike made it through challenge domination, getting challenge threats out early and maintaining good relations with people who were voted out.

Joaquin and Joe knocked out early by Mike.

savinhill
Mar 28, 2010


Capt. Supermarket posted:

Somebody, maybe Rob Cesternino, said that her revelation that she's a millionaire during FTC might actually help her next season in that players might want to bring her to the end feeling that no one would want to give her more money. That makes sense but who the hell knows.

I've been thinking about this past season, and I really didn't like it at all. There were some good moments and some decent characters, but the Probst hype machine definitely didn't help and I just can't get behind Mike as a satisfying winner. I've always considered challenge-whoring your way to the end as your only means of staying in the game to be impossible, and now that Mike has done it, I still see it more as an anomaly than anything. To have someone who was supposed to be out of the game from the final 9 on to make the FTC only because of challenges that can be completely random is just really unsatisfying to me. I wasn't a huge fan of Mike's anyways so that didn't help either (although he's been pretty great post-game on podcasts and stuff).

I also can't help but compare it to SJDS, a season that was for the most part panned by fans and especially Probst. I think a lot of it might have been Cagayan hangover, which was an absolutely incredible season. I actually liked SJDS quite a bit as it was airing, but I think I like it even more now that we have another season pass that I can compare it to. I've come to the conclusion that Natalie was an absolutely incredible winner and I think I would put her in my top five best players of all time. Contrast her to Jeremy, who crashed and burned because "these people are so dumb". After he was voted out, she did the exact right thing in not making a stink about it and fit right back into the alliance. From there, she played against and accounted for the type of people she was in the game with more than anyone I can remember. Even if the people in the game were a bunch of dummies, Natalie realized it and managed to maneuver around them accordingly. The Alec vote switch should have hurt her big time, and I remember it was rightfully criticized on RHAP after it happened, but she correctly assessed that she could explain it away to Jon and ultimately got a "NBD" from him. The idol play both played up to the jury and importantly gained the loyalty of Jackie even though it was screwing over Baylor/Missy. It's just that she played so well against the hand she was dealt and the players she was put in the game with that I can't help but be really impressed. Put that together with a season that had some pretty interesting storylines and multiple players that had tradition "winner's edits" that got voted out at unpredictable times and in my eyes you have a pretty great season.

Speaking of Rob, I feel like he should be cuing up that fanfiction "I'm a teller of stories" audio drop about now

JesusSinfulHands
Oct 24, 2007
Sartre and Russell are my heroes

Smorgasbord posted:

So Mike's wins don't count because he won so hard he made his opponents look like chumps?

Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent.

Smorgasbord
Jun 18, 2004

Our review identified changes needed to be made and, in Stephen, we have a coach who has a reputation for demanding the highest standards.


JesusSinfulHands posted:

Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent.

Yep. Kim and Rob utterly neutralised any strategic threats to them but in slightly different ways. Rob by instantly identified and isolated his competition pre merge, then protected himself by gathering the shellshocked remnants with hilarious tactics like the buddy system. Kim on the other hand neutralised Sabrina, Alicia and Chelsea by convincing them all that she was their closest ally. They never really figured out she wasn't, and even if they had it would've been too late. Both were helped by the implosions of their opposing tribe but both played excellent risk free games and shouldn't be penalised for the lack of risk since they actively created that situation with their masterful play.

Getting back on topic, if you can only be a challenge beast if you have a legit rival then I guess the only qualifiers are Terry (Aras) and Tom Westman (Ian). Did you see the schlubs Colby had his streak against? Hell I don't think you can say Yul or Adam were any real threat to Ozzy so he doesn't count either.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

"Walking Schwindel, smart move."


Propaganda Machine posted:

Honestly, I'm just kind of stoked to be going into a season where the median age is like 40. That's going to be fun and different.

Yeah, I like this too. I'm wondering if the final three from Worlds Apart (41, 52, 38) is the oldest final group in average in the show's history. Philippines might be higher.

LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


JesusSinfulHands posted:

Sort of reminds me of the "Kim and Rob's wins aren't that great because they were playing with a bunch of bozos like Christina Cha and Natalie Tenerelli" argument. Sure, but they should get a ton of credit for surrounding themselves in the endgame with those kinda people. Mike isn't in the same league as a winner as them, but he should get some credit for especially the Joe boot as after that the physical competition other than Tyler was nonexistent.

Mike's win ratio 1 in 1.

Rob's win ratio 1 in 4.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988



You can be a great player and still lose in Survivor. You can be a weak player and still win.

If you want to bind yourself entirely to the final outcome then yeah, Boston Rob isn't as good as Mike, or as good as Fabio or Bob Crowley either.

Mike got pretty lucky. It could've been editing but there was a time Sierra came seconds away from beating him in a challenge. And any of those challenges could've been a bit more random and not gone his way. But most every winner has some lucky thing bounce their way. Mike is eternally going to be a polarizing winner because he got to the end entirely on the strength of winning challenges. Personally I wouldn't put him as a top tier winner but that's just like my opinion man.

Spiky Ooze
Oct 27, 2005

Bernie Sanders is a friend to my planet (pictured)


click the shit outta^

LostRook posted:

Rob's win ratio 1 in 4.

Winner and 2nd place (to his future wife) out of 4 tries is pretty respectable. I mean he's a far from invisible character too, so any time he plays he has a rather high chance of getting backstabbed.

Nexal
Apr 21, 2010

Moby - Extreme ways

Mike is a great winner but not the best player.
He had lots of faults in his gameplay but he used the challenges to get to the end. He had enough charisma and social skills to get someone like Dan's vote after betraying him and we all know how bitter that man is.
Ozzy got to the finals by winning challenges but that didn't win the game for him. Russel got to the finals with his alliance and strategy but that didn't win the game for him.

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005



Spiky Ooze posted:

Winner and 2nd place (to his future wife) out of 4 tries is pretty respectable. I mean he's a far from invisible character too, so any time he plays he has a rather high chance of getting backstabbed.

A 2nd place that he engineered, and then asked her to marry him before the result was out. Rob won two seasons, he just metagamed his entire life for his first victory.

SweetJahasus
Dec 23, 2005

Dragon Slayer
Samurai Warrior
Escape Artist
Viking
Chong-Ra Master

BE THE WIZARD


The challenges exist for a reason. Mike was a dead man walking for 6 straight challenges and he made himself immune every time. He didn't luck into that, he just worked harder to achieve those wins (with the one exception being his idol play - where he, per his RHAP, worked hard to find that as well while everyone else slacked off). Everyone who wins on Survivor deserves it in one way or another and Mike got his win by being against the ropes and putting up an impressive win streak, which jurors can't help but respect. Sure, Rob's win probably took a little more panache, but he didn't even have to schmooze the jurors because he made sure to eliminate everyone with a brain before the jury. And even though Kim did dominate, nobody can say that she was up against any challenge at all and she had that season tied up from the minute they stepped out there.

At the very least Mike had some stiff competition in Carolyn and (unbelievably) Rodney, who was evidently very well liked by pretty much everyone. People compare Mike to Colby but Mike seems like a genuine guy who just enjoys Survivor and wants to have fun and be a good person instead of Colby who wants to be some slick movie star with his poo poo-eating grin. I feel like I'm starting to sound like I'm Mike's mom or something defending him, but I legitimately think s30 was pretty drat entertaining, and while it had some duds, it still delivered entertainment week over week.

All that said, I'm re-watching Tocantins for the 4th time right now and that poo poo is such a great season. The way the editors frame Coach is loving beautiful. Everyone, if you haven't seen Tocantins and you have Amazon Prime, go watch it. If you have seen it, go watch it again. It's a thing of beauty.

Poque
Sep 11, 2003

"Walking Schwindel, smart move."


Did you hear me say "Dragonslayer"?

mancalamania
Oct 23, 2008


It's possible to think that Mike, Rob, and Kim all deserved their wins and also think that their wins are unsatisfying as a viewer.

SweetJahasus
Dec 23, 2005

Dragon Slayer
Samurai Warrior
Escape Artist
Viking
Chong-Ra Master

BE THE WIZARD


mancalamania posted:

It's possible to think that Mike, Rob, and Kim all deserved their wins and also think that their wins are unsatisfying as a viewer.

Who in season 30 would have been a satisfying winner? As much as it pains me to say it, I think the only other satisfying winner would have been Rodney - and I'd feel pretty dirty about that.

Fast Luck
Feb 2, 1988



Yeah Rodney

or Carolyn

TASTE THE PAIN!!
May 18, 2004



It would have been nice to see Rodney try and use his disappointing birthday as a way to get votes at FTC

Bahumaut
Apr 6, 2009


So as much as the ending may seem unsatisfying for some people, I imagine the ending to be a lot worse if Dan had gone with Mike after the auction and having him sitting at the Final. I think that would have made for some horrible television and I'm just glad that at least we could see how some people make the game horrible but still somewhat interesting to watch. Waiting for the next season to enjoy some people with actual experience and maybe not have players who make me not want to watch because of their attitudes.

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013



Whoa, I think people misunderstood me. Mike was a deserving winner and made for good television.

I just think that, like most winners, there's a lot of luck involved.

Probably the most baffling thing about Worlds Apart is how little No Collar tried to bond or shore up their numbers.

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LostRook
Jun 7, 2013


Narcissus1916 posted:

Whoa, I think people misunderstood me. Mike was a deserving winner and made for good television.

Nope, too late. Thread has decided Mike is the new Natalie and Carolyn is the new Russell.

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