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Daikon
Apr 22, 2009


Drav posted:

I'll buy one

I need an AK, and I want this one to be 100% real, 0% hype!

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



WitchFetish posted:

I wouldn't exactly be surprised to see that kind of technology being used in drones to eliminate high value targets without levelling the neighborhood with a Hellfire.

Can you imagine the extra range that the loft from slapping it on a drone flying a few thousand feet up would give your average .50 cal? Most of the truly insane record-breaking sniper shots in Afghanistan were already made by shooting down-hill from mountain sides into valleys. Watching the video it also looks like the corrections are happening relatively late in flight, so you might even be able to do them after the projectile goes sub-sonic.

I'm guessing you'd probably need someone much closer to the target than that to designate it, though.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Cyrano4747 posted:

Can you imagine the extra range that the loft from slapping it on a drone flying a few thousand feet up would give your average .50 cal? Most of the truly insane record-breaking sniper shots in Afghanistan were already made by shooting down-hill from mountain sides into valleys. Watching the video it also looks like the corrections are happening relatively late in flight, so you might even be able to do them after the projectile goes sub-sonic.

I'm guessing you'd probably need someone much closer to the target than that to designate it, though.

Idk where technology is at but I'd bet you could laser designate from another drone

autonomous hunter killer teams

The Rat
Aug 29, 2004

You will find no one to help you here. Beth DuClare has been dissected and placed in cryonic storage.



DrakeriderCa posted:

Idk where technology is at but I'd bet you could laser designate from another drone

autonomous hunter killer teams

And then feed on the remains of the eliminated targets

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Cyrano4747 posted:

Can you imagine the extra range that the loft from slapping it on a drone flying a few thousand feet up would give your average .50 cal? Most of the truly insane record-breaking sniper shots in Afghanistan were already made by shooting down-hill from mountain sides into valleys. Watching the video it also looks like the corrections are happening relatively late in flight, so you might even be able to do them after the projectile goes sub-sonic.

I'm guessing you'd probably need someone much closer to the target than that to designate it, though.

IDK why, assuming a minor course-correction ability really makes a .50 able to reliably land kill shots from like four miles up on a moving platform in variable wind conditions being remote-controlled from thousands of miles away in the first place. Targeting's the easy part, and like a hundred-pound missile that'll just blow up the whole general area doesn't demand improbable amounts of ballistic finesse in a teeny tiny package.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Also people vastly overestimate the explosive potential of a Hellfire. The warhead is actually pretty small and I've watched dudes on live feed get blown up and the guy standing five feet away runs away with no obvious damage

gimpsuitjones
Mar 27, 2007

What are you lookin at...

Cyrano4747 posted:

Most of the truly insane record-breaking sniper shots in Afghanistan were already made by shooting down-hill from mountain sides into valleys.




Mmm I don't think that is the case. High angle shots don't "add range". High altitude (like all of Afghan) does because of lower air densities etc.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


Why not? I'd think that an extra thousand feet or two of elevation relative to the target would increase the effective range significantly. Or is the problem that by the time you get out that far, the bullet is coming in at such a sharp downward angle that the extra elevation only gives another hundred feet or so of range?

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


DrakeriderCa posted:

Also people vastly overestimate the explosive potential of a Hellfire. The warhead is actually pretty small and I've watched dudes on live feed get blown up and the guy standing five feet away runs away with no obvious damage

That's because a lot of the warheads are anti-tank with a cylindrical fragmentation sheath, meaning that if the missile hits the ground at a shallow angle only people to the sides will get hit.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Tuesday13985gogley.pdf

gimpsuitjones
Mar 27, 2007

What are you lookin at...

22 Eargesplitten posted:

Why not? I'd think that an extra thousand feet or two of elevation relative to the target would increase the effective range significantly. Or is the problem that by the time you get out that far, the bullet is coming in at such a sharp downward angle that the extra elevation only gives another hundred feet or so of range?

The effective range is limited by ability to hit the target due to accuracy and wind/other environmental factors, also effect on target due to impact velocity, not by "dropping into the ground"

Additionally shooting on an angle is more difficult.

Even if a rifle groups with "1 moa precision" at 2,000 meters, that's an area larger than a human torso (22 inches) in which the bullet will impact and with wind, vertical stringing from velocity, natural decrease in precision at range due to imperfections in the bullet magnifying at longer range etc it is very unlikely to hold 1moa precision at that range, also holding that precision does not equal ability to hit a 1moa (or smaller) target.

gimpsuitjones fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Feb 1, 2015

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



22 Eargesplitten posted:

Why not? I'd think that an extra thousand feet or two of elevation relative to the target would increase the effective range significantly. Or is the problem that by the time you get out that far, the bullet is coming in at such a sharp downward angle that the extra elevation only gives another hundred feet or so of range?

You're a lot more likely to have actual problems with poo poo like wind shear across altitudes than you are with your bullet bleeding all its forward kinetic energy to air resistance and having to drop on your target like a fuckin brick. Unless your shooting position is, like, orbital, bullet drop is effectively constant.

gimpsuitjones
Mar 27, 2007

What are you lookin at...

The guy I know that made a >2km kill with a .50 in Afghan credits it to basically trying enough times that you get a hit on a guy eventually

Creamed Cormp
Jan 8, 2011

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN


Cyrano4747 posted:

Can you imagine the extra range that the loft from slapping it on a drone flying a few thousand feet up would give your average .50 cal? Most of the truly insane record-breaking sniper shots in Afghanistan were already made by shooting down-hill from mountain sides into valleys. Watching the video it also looks like the corrections are happening relatively late in flight, so you might even be able to do them after the projectile goes sub-sonic.

I'm guessing you'd probably need someone much closer to the target than that to designate it, though.

I'm no gun-technology expert (nor do I have any experience with precision shooting, and most of my knowledge of robots and drones comes from Terminator), but as I saw it, a guided bullet in the .50-20mm range that can hit a man sized target while fired from an electronically stabilized drone flying at a reasonable altitude sounded entirely feasible, and one of the most reasonable use of the technology given the focus on them in recent years.

But if BAE, GE or Cyberdyne wants to give me money for my dumb posting, let them go ahead.

DrakeriderCa
Feb 3, 2005

But I'm a real cowboy!

Mortabis posted:

That's because a lot of the warheads are anti-tank with a cylindrical fragmentation sheath, meaning that if the missile hits the ground at a shallow angle only people to the sides will get hit.

http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2012armaments/Tuesday13985gogley.pdf

Yeah I thought about adding that detail but decided against it. It further establishes that Hellfires aren't the massive compound crusher that people think they are.

Dead Reckoning
Sep 13, 2011


WitchFetish posted:

I'm no gun-technology expert (nor do I have any experience with precision shooting, and most of my knowledge of robots and drones comes from Terminator), but as I saw it, a guided bullet in the .50-20mm range that can hit a man sized target while fired from an electronically stabilized drone flying at a reasonable altitude sounded entirely feasible, and one of the most reasonable use of the technology given the focus on them in recent years.

Not really, based on the factors Gimpsuit described. Anyway, a rifled barrel and action will weigh nearly as much as a smaller rocket, and if you put the guidance package on the rocket instead, the Pk goes up steeply.

Edit: Yeah, looking at the numbers, a Barret M82 and a Hydra 70 both weigh about 29 pounds, so if you have a guidance system small enough to put on a .50 cal bullet, for aircraft applications there's no reason not to put an upsized version on a Hydra 70 with antipersonnel warhead and use that instead.

Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 3, 2015

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



It looks like the industry is slowly turning on TTAG.

http://www.aacblog.com/the-truth-about-aac/

quote:

The Truth about AAC

Having been at SHOT 2015 and hearing some of the wild rumors and unfounded speculation going around about AAC, I felt I needed to step in, clear the air, and set the record straight.

RUMOR: AAC is going out of business.

FACT: AAC is not going out of business. We are, however, moving to a new facility in Huntsville, Alabama, that will include most of the other companies that make up Remington Outdoor Company. The AAC facility in Lawrenceville, GA will cease production in February. The relocation of equipment and personnel will take place between the cessation of production and early May. We are taking steps to minimize any interruptions in communication and customer service during the transition so that the move is as transparent to our customers as possible. We introduced not one, not two, not three, but four new silencers this year. Would we do that if we were going out of business?

RUMOR: They came in and fired everyone.

FACT: No they didn’t. No employee has been fired from AAC in the last three years. This rumor has been spread ad-nauseam by a mouth-breathing oaf that writes for a blog, the title of which begins with a word that rhymes with “douche”. He’s relaying bad intel, spoon fed to him by former AAC personnel. Consider the source.

RUMOR: They ran off all the creative people.

FACT: Again, no, they didn’t. With the exception of one silencer in the current 2015 catalog, the other 30 or so silencers were designed by personnel that are still drawing a paycheck with AAC at the top.

RUMOR: They are merging AAC with TAPCO.

FACT: Um, no. Why would they do that? This is another one of those “douche about guns” rumors. Again, completely baseless tripe passed on by former AAC personnel and regurgitated by an easily manipulated blogger.

To all of you out there that own AAC products, I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your patronage. The four products we introduced at SHOT are not the last new products to come from us this year. There are some really interesting new silencers to come that I believe will surprise everyone, and re-establish AAC as the leader in silencer innovation. Please stay tuned!

Thanks for your time,

Mike Smith/AAC

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Where's the ttag article in question? Did foghorn write it?

I've never found a gun blog that I find satisfying. TFB's content is good but it tends to crash my browser for some reason.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Since when does douche rhyme with truth?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


Since literacy standards started dropping.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



Mortabis posted:

Where's the ttag article in question? Did foghorn write it?
Who the hell knows, but he did poo poo this article out Monday.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/02/foghorn/aacs-mike-smith-posts-least-professional-press-release-history/

Mad Dragon fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Feb 3, 2015

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Cyrano4747 posted:

Since when does douche rhyme with truth?

The troosh about gunsh

Not Nipsy Russell
Oct 6, 2004

Failure is always an option.


Cyrano4747 posted:

Since when does douche rhyme with truth?

Since about Emily Dickinson and Yeats. Slant rhymes can sometimes be a very clever ruse.
But they can be over used.

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I really see the next generation of advances in the firearm world coming in the optics department. Integration of previously separate items such as ballistics calculators, kestral type environmental devices, selectable night vision or IR without removing or flipping a device to the side, even some tracking point style target tagging, all synced to other devices. Drones tagging targets that show up in a troops smart scope or helmet HUD, the gun/optic doing all the shooting calculations.

Drav
Jul 23, 2002

We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

ZebraBlade posted:

I really see the next generation of advances in the firearm world coming in the optics department. Integration of previously separate items such as ballistics calculators, kestral type environmental devices, selectable night vision or IR without removing or flipping a device to the side, even some tracking point style target tagging, all synced to other devices. Drones tagging targets that show up in a troops smart scope or helmet HUD, the gun/optic doing all the shooting calculations.

gently caress yes. Enough with paper notebooks and dope cards.

Teach a computer to read wind and it's game over.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Drav posted:

gently caress yes. Enough with paper notebooks and dope cards.

Teach a computer to read wind and it's game over.
Didn't someone come up with a scope that does that already? Or maybe it was just range compensation.

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums

You might be thinking of the BORS or perhaps Trackingpoint's rifles (which do just about everything except wind adjustment, at least about two years ago anyway.)

ZebraBlade
Mar 26, 2010

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark

I just dont see many real technological "leaps" in small arms in the next 10-20 years. Man portable rail guns and energy weapons wont be trial ready for a long rear end time let alone field ready even if there is some breakthrough in portable power sources. Caseless ammo and Metal Storm type systems have far too many hurdles to be feasible for infantry deployment let alone civilian applications. This really leave optics and ammo as the immediate areas I see major developments happening in 5-10 years.

On a larger platform, drones and UAVs are going to become a big part of military and civilian operations and every day lives. The future kicks rear end.

various cheeses
Jan 24, 2013



Note to self: SBR PS90 and build rail mount for quadcopter

sky shark
Jun 9, 2004

CHILD RAPE IS FINE WHEN I LIKE THE RAPIST

Short of a radical change in ammunition, betting on optics is definitely the right horse to back.

Though with the recent breakthroughs in superconductor research there are interesting things happening.

Darth Freddy
Feb 6, 2007

An Emperor's slightest dislike is transmitted to those who serve him, and there it is amplified into rage.

Trijicon does have this.
https://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product1.php?id=CCAS

But it doesn't do speed yet and I don't think they sell it to civilians.

What I am waiting for is a new heavy round like 200-300 grain round that can break 3000fps. I would think with the new steels they are trying to make and the heavy ones like on the henery big boys they could move to it.

I just want a super speedy bullet.

canyoneer
Sep 13, 2005


I only have canyoneyes for you


Electronic triggers could be really cool, but I bet the ATF ruins it <>

Pitch
Jun 16, 2005

しらんけど


Darth Freddy posted:

What I am waiting for is a new heavy round like 200-300 grain round that can break 3000fps. I would think with the new steels they are trying to make and the heavy ones like on the henery big boys they could move to it.
You don't need stronger steel, you need a manufacturer willing to pay for it. The stuff in guns now is state of the art circa 1987 or so. You could order something twice as strong off the shelf nowadays. The majority of new research goes into making steel cheaper, rather than stronger, so someone will actually buy it.

Edit: although the cutting edge is mostly driven by automotive manufacturers, whose priorities don't exactly line up with gun barrels

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



canyoneer posted:

Electronic triggers could be really cool, but I bet the ATF ruins it <>

If the ATF was the only issue, rather than say the benefits not outweighing the issues of a gun that can run out of juice, I'm pretty sure the Russians or Israelis or someone would be all over it by now. Replacing a hammer with a piezo or whatever ain't exactly got the development footprint of trying to pack a missile guidance system into a 50-gram bullet, or software that can do accurate ballistic predictions for all environmental situations.

A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Feb 3, 2015

The Eyes Have It
Feb 9, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums


That is really just disheartening. I really don't think there was any malicious intent anywhere, just bad communication and thoughtlessness that has turned ugly.

I'm actually very sympathetic to the challenges faced by any writer/commenter/reviewer in a scene like the firearms industry, which on top of everything tends to have a long memory. You see something as telling it like it is and a big name sees it as a hit piece (or at best, a fool telling it like he ignorantly perceives it on a very tall and visible soapbox) and suddenly you've shat where you eat.

Here's an example of how to research and write a "bad" review and commentary that can be respected even if it doesn't say what someone want to hear.

The Eyes Have It fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Feb 3, 2015

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




Mister Sinewave posted:

I'm actually very sympathetic to the challenges faced by any writer/commenter/reviewer in a scene like the firearms industry

There are probably many writers/commenters/reviewers in the industry who deserve sympathy, but TTAG is not among them.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Mister Sinewave posted:

That is really just disheartening. I really don't think there was any malicious intent anywhere, just bad communication and thoughtlessness that has turned ugly.

I'm actually very sympathetic to the challenges faced by any writer/commenter/reviewer in a scene like the firearms industry, which on top of everything tends to have a long memory. You see something as telling it like it is and a big name sees it as a hit piece (or at best, a fool telling it like he ignorantly perceives it on a very tall and visible soapbox) and suddenly you've shat where you eat.

Here's an example of how to research and write a "bad" review and commentary that can be respected even if it doesn't say what someone want to hear.

On the other hand, AAC owes absolutely nothing to a random internet blogger who thinks practice and trigger time isn't nearly as important as buying more expensive equipment. Yeah, they're being assholes, but they're being assholes to Foghorn, so it's a wash.

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



Mister Sinewave posted:

Here's an example of how to research and write a "bad" review and commentary that can be respected even if it doesn't say what someone want to hear.

Arstechnica has a similar review of that same thing up right now that really neatly threads that needle of acknowledging that the device is well built while flat out calling it snake oil. It's the audio equivilant of saying "look, if you believe crystals cure cancer this is a really shiny crystal "

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Cyrano4747 posted:

Arstechnica has a similar review of that same thing up right now that really neatly threads that needle of acknowledging that the device is well built while flat out calling it snake oil. It's the audio equivilant of saying "look, if you believe crystals cure cancer this is a really shiny crystal "

There's a lot of parallels between audiophiles and crystal healing people and Foghorn's just a loud idiot

Kennebago
Nov 12, 2007

van de schande is bevrijd
hij die met walkuren rijd


DJExile posted:

On the other hand, AAC owes absolutely nothing to a random internet blogger who thinks practice and trigger time isn't nearly as important as buying more expensive equipment. Yeah, they're being assholes, but they're being assholes to Foghorn, so it's a wash.

Keep in mind that TTAG (Farago does this more, I think, but I don't pay very close attention) insists on running stories about TAPCO taking over AAC, about AAC going out of business, and about Remington Outdoor Company getting ready to firesale everything it owns and split up the portfolio. These are all supposedly substantiated to some degree or another by "sources".

None of it is true.

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DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Kennebago posted:

Keep in mind that TTAG (Farago does this more, I think, but I don't pay very close attention) insists on running stories about TAPCO taking over AAC, about AAC going out of business, and about Remington Outdoor Company getting ready to firesale everything it owns and split up the portfolio. These are all supposedly substantiated to some degree or another by "sources".

None of it is true.

They also named a gun that nobody can buy yet and hasn't even been released to LE/Military as the rifle of the year.

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