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keevo
Jun 16, 2011

WAKE UP


How was the Triple H/Stone Cold podcast thing? Any good takeaways from it?

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Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Captain Magic posted:

I would like for John Cena to take an extended break like many wrestlers have done around his age and figure out what it is he enjoys outside of pretending to have fights and doing charity work based on his persona of pretend fight master.

If there's anything that we have learned, it's that this business can break anybody from time to time.

I know he likes to play beer pong in his empty mansion.

Top Bunk Wanker
Jan 31, 2005

Top Trump Anger

Ragnarok the Red posted:

Well, to be fair, zombified Hitler could've been the one spearing Show and gotten a pop solely by virtue of having helped Bryan.

Hitler only uses the Lance of Longinus (modified spear into crucifix pin) on PPV. You clearly haven't followed his career like I have.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?


keevo posted:

How was the Triple H/Stone Cold podcast thing? Any good takeaways from it?
He danced around most questions and didn't say much. He said that Chyna would be hard to induct because of her porn career (Literally, and directly stating that reason)

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


I would really like to have hope here, I would...except all of last week was report after report of 'The WWE (ie, VINCE) doesn't see Bryan as a main event star, last year was a fluke and will NOT be repeated, etc', along with the fact that they proceeded to book the 2015 Rumble even worse than 2014 and apparently had NO idea this would get a negative reaction, and all this is reeking of more clueless idiocy that they think will fix things. So, based on certain things, this is one of three things.

1) Vince did change his mind (or maybe someone smarter like HHH leaned on him enough to shut out Dunn). Considering VINCE and all the crap of the last few weeks, I have severe doubts this is the case, and even if it WAS, Vince may very well change it back.

2) Vince did all this to jerk us around and is playing us like violins. This is also pretty drat unlikely, because even IF Vince was a grand puppetmaster, this sort of stuff is costing him money.

3) Vince thinks that he can just have Sheamus run out and attack Bryan, or have Ziggler show up and turn heel and attack Bryan, or knowing VINCE, probably just have Reigns beat Bryan clean, and he'll think that will make fans accept Reigns main eventing Wrestlemania while Bryan doesn't. And odds are it will not, it will just bring back the boos and rage, possibly even worse than before, and this time Vince won't have a giant snow storm acting as a buffer. The ONLY way this might work is if they do outright turn Roman heel during this process (which they could very well be hinting at), have the Authority lose faith in Seth Rollins after Fast Lane, and have Rollins cash in after Roman wins and win himself, performing a double turn, because Roman beating Brock and standing tall as Wrestlemania 31 closes is going to get intense negative heat whether he's a heel and ESPECIALLY if he's a face, let alone any financial issues. They can wave around '1 million subscribers' all they want, but in a few months I suspect that number is going to be revealed as re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

As said, this whole thing just reeks of utter idiocy, in how they booked the Rumble and now just had to rebook things so that the Rumble becomes meaningless, because VINCE wants the result he wants and the crowd is absolutely and utterly refusing to let him have it; if he thinks the fact that reactions to Reigns have gotten milder means he's justified to do this, then he's going to rapidly discover that just because you can't see the giant predatory cat doesn't mean you're free to go back to cooking meat.

Cornwind Evil fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 06:58

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

#RXT REVOLUTION~!
2000



future scoopin'...


Alain Post posted:

Daniel Bryan isn't a budding star, he is slightly younger than John Cena, and is just coming off a major injury. I freaking love him but he isn't the future of the WWE.


(unless you were arguing for Ambrose, who I'd absolutely go for, but he seems to be heading toward that Mick Foley 1999 slot on the roster, which isn't awful, but still)

He could easily be the IMMEDIATE future of the company. Steve Austin, HBK and Bret Hart were not on top for a quantitatively large number of years. In fact most "carry the company," top guys in modern wrestling history have not carried their companies for a decade, it's usually a matter of only a few years. Hogan and Cena are anomalies.

Strawberry Panda
Nov 4, 2007

Breakfast Defecting, Slow Dick Touching, Root Beer Barreling SwagVP


Flameingblack posted:

He danced around most questions and didn't say much. He said that Chyna would be hard to induct because of her porn career (Literally, and directly stating that reason)

He indirectly confirmed he's wrestling Sting at Wrestlemania.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


oatgan posted:

what was bad about the crowd they were hot? They briefly died in the middle but are we willing blaming a crowd for running out of steam after an hour and a half of talking?

They were the best crowd because they will provide me months of twitter trolling fodder that Bryan is only catchphrase over.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Sanguinia posted:

He could easily be the IMMEDIATE future of the company. Steve Austin, HBK and Bret Hart were not on top for a quantitatively large number of years. In fact most "carry the company," top guys in modern wrestling history have not carried their companies for a decade, it's usually a matter of only a few years. Hogan and Cena are anomalies.

Hogan had been a massive star in Japan and the AWA for years before he returned to the WWF. The Rock, Cena and Batista are better examples of guys who shot to the top relatively quickly and became major stars. HBK and Bret Hart aren't exactly great examples here because the company did so poorly with them on top (although both had aspects of the business where they could draw.)

Molestationary Store
May 21, 2007



maxallen posted:

This but the opposite.

Y'all make me sick, all you people doing a 180 on Reigns just because they apparently did some decent booking on him for once.

Also this episode sounds hilarious "hey Bryan gets a shot just because" terrible panic booking.

I think you're mistaking my intense hatred of The Big Show for love of Roman Reigns. I don't hate Roman, but he's the worst of the three Shield duders and it's just not his time yet.

keevo
Jun 16, 2011

WAKE UP


Flameingblack posted:

He danced around most questions and didn't say much. He said that Chyna would be hard to induct because of her porn career (Literally, and directly stating that reason)

Bummer (about the dancing around questions). Thanks though.

HOTLANTA MAN
Jul 4, 2010

One day, that lion gets up and tears the shit out of everybody. Cause every once in a while, the lion has to show the jackals who he is.


Lipstick Apathy

MassRafTer posted:

Hogan had been a massive star in Japan and the AWA for years before he returned to the WWF.

Kind of an aside but I totally forgot about this and I'm watching one of his old Japan matches.

It's crazy watching him actually sell.

Evil Badman
Aug 19, 2006

I wanna talk about bird lube, NOW.


keevo posted:

Bummer (about the dancing around questions). Thanks though.

If you had a low opinion about him before, don't bother. I don't think he danced around as much as others said, and his genuine passion with the business shows through at times.

Perdido
Apr 29, 2009

CORY SCHNEIDER IS FAR MORE MENTALLY STABLE THAN LUONGO AND CAN HANDLE THE PRESSURES OF GOALTENDING IN VANCOUVER


Sanguinia posted:

He could easily be the IMMEDIATE future of the company. Steve Austin, HBK and Bret Hart were not on top for a quantitatively large number of years. In fact most "carry the company," top guys in modern wrestling history have not carried their companies for a decade, it's usually a matter of only a few years. Hogan and Cena are anomalies.

We're, what, 33 years into the current wrestling paradigm "as is", so I don't think it's fair to cite Hogan/Cena as anomalies when roughly two thirds of the current business model has been dominated by those two.

If we want to go back further to the territory days, that sort of model was very much the case. How else do you explain Bruno being champion for as long as he was?

If we want to compare contemporary wrestling feds, well, WCW never really ever had a top guy who "carried" the company. Sting typically drew lacklustre numbers whenever he was positioned as such, and their other attempts didn't really go so well. There was Hogan, which (IIRC) initially spiked interest, but that was riding the goodwill from being a WWF product/household name than anything. Goldberg was probably the only other comparable and he had an incredibly brief window of success while WCW was entering its death spiral. Flair probably is the only other comparable and he was pretty much the man for a long rear end period of time, despite WCW's efforts at sabotaging his rear end.

ECW was in a continuous state of flux and I don't think anyone really "carried" the company -- ECW was more of a brand or entity rather than having any one singular guy positioned to make the company money...and they were really mice nuts in the grand scale of things.

That said, I do think that WWE is pissing money away with their handling of Daniel Bryan, and I don't get why they can never let things happen organically but hey, I'm not a Cerebral Asskicker or Vincent McMahon, goddammit, so what do I know? Hahaha.

sticklefifer
Nov 11, 2003

TOO EASY

They've definitely taken the last week to get back on track with what people liked about Reigns a year ago. Tactical vest instead of laser tag, man of few words instead of goofball storytime, threatening and intense instead of Cena Lite, and comes in like an artillery strike instead of a toe-to-toe guy. Not just that, but his personality is heelish. The loss to Show I can only think was to try to appease those booing him, and knocking him down a peg. If he'd beaten Show there would be other criticisms for that booking decision too though. I'm willing to bet it was also to give people as much hope for Bryan as possible - if Reigns can lose a match on the same show where Bryan gets a second chance, it builds Fast Lane that much more. I genuinely wonder how much booking since the Rumble is backpedaling and how much was planned.

So there's that. Also, I want to see Stardust just completely break, and be this sort of half-Cody half-Stardust entity, basically Cody with his makeup all cracked and half-applied, just ranting about cosmic forces.

sticklefifer fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 07:24

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

#1 CAPITALS FAN
Available on the App Store


Evil Badman posted:

If you had a low opinion about him before, don't bother. I don't think he danced around as much as others said, and his genuine passion with the business shows through at times.

It was really neat seeing those glimpses where he'd let his guard down a little and you could see a bit of the fanboy wrestling geek coming out. That plus his involvement in NXT has gone a long way to change my opinion of him.

SamuraiFoochs
Jan 16, 2007



Grimey Drawer

keevo posted:

Bummer (about the dancing around questions). Thanks though.

I don't think he danced nearly as much as some people think he did. He gave plenty of real, if verbose/diplomatic answers. Here are some bullets.

-Admitted kayfabe is dead. A lot of talk about the nature of storytelling in modern wrestling.
-Loves passionate fans, and the rapidly changing nature of the business based on fan reactions.
-Heavily insinuated that he gets where smarks are coming from (and they literally said "smart marks") but guys like Cena still sell most tickets so it's a struggle to figure how to make people happy.
-Fair amount of excuses/contradictions/convenient stances about how/why he thinks guys can/should get over.
-NXT IS HHH's baby. A lot of NXT chat and all of the stuff we like about NXT are supported if not outright mandated by HHH (most notably bullet point promos, letting guys develop naturally both in and out of ring rather than overly structuring everything).
-Thinks fans get too mad about single results sometimes because "wrestling is the book that never ends".
-A lot of insinuation that he disagrees with how Vince runs things.
-HHH wants to take NXT on the road.
-Put over Finn Balor totally unprompted.
-Buried Kevin Dunn.
-Wants Raw to be two hours, wants women to be taken more seriously.
-Was a revisionist (probably) about the Punk situation but downplayed any heat on his end. Also acknowledged in his own way that they hosed up Punk. Mentioned Nash being a failure explicitly.

There was a lot of political phrasing by Trips and some irritating contradictions to be sure, but reading between the lines at all, it corroborates much of what we hear/believe about what HHH thinks, believes, and does as a boss.

The Landstander
Apr 20, 2004

I stand on land.

I liked the Triple H interview on the whole. He certainly seemed to be hitting the right notes on a lot of things: a decent take on the difficulties of booking in the modern era, a welcome nod to the Performance Center, acknowledgement that the women's division could use an overhaul, that three hour Raws are inherently taxing, etc. There were some dodges and holding the corporate line in there (his defense of "sports entertainment" as a concept was so incoherent that it was a weird kind of relief), but on the whole he at least seems to be treating fan concerns seriously.

This is especially true when you consider that when Vince was confronted with a lot of these same issues, he buried most of the locker room and ranted about millenials.

Cabbit
Jul 19, 2001

Is that everything you have?


Lipstick Apathy

It certainly sounds like Trips has his head screwed on straighter than Vince, at least.

Also Roman would kill a man the night I miss Raw for work. drat it.

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


The thing that sort of bugs me about his 'You have to work hard, not everyone has the It factor, Cena's on top because he works the hardest' is it never addresses the elephant in the room; what happens if you work hard and get punished for it?

Take Zack Ryder. Maybe he would have never main evented Wrestlemania, but he managed to get himself over. Did he get a chance to fail, to show he didn't have the dimensions to be more? No. He got placed in a horrendous storyline that seemed to intentionally make sure people stopped caring about him. Now yes, maybe he screwed himself over by complaining on Twitter, but really, what COULD he do? Complain to the people backstage who gave him the complaints to begin with? CM Punk did that all the time and ALSO worked hard; he needed several nuclear options to keep his career from being completely derailed. If HHH wants to hoist the blame on the 'Summer Of Text Messages' on Nash and Vince, then what does it say that Punk's hard work just got him screwed over by others?

The WWE's issues have never been 'so and so doesn't work hard enough, or doesn't have enough dimension'. It has ALWAYS been 'So and so has power and issues and grudges'. I have to wonder if Paul Levesque would think the same if he'd gotten hosed over and was trying to keep TNA intact or JoinTheForce instead of the benefits he reaped following in those footsteps.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Cornwind Evil posted:

The thing that sort of bugs me about his 'You have to work hard, not everyone has the It factor, Cena's on top because he works the hardest' is it never addresses the elephant in the room; what happens if you work hard and get punished for it?

Take Zack Ryder. Maybe he would have never main evented Wrestlemania, but he managed to get himself over. Did he get a chance to fail, to show he didn't have the dimensions to be more? No. He got placed in a horrendous storyline that seemed to intentionally make sure people stopped caring about him. Now yes, maybe he screwed himself over by complaining on Twitter, but really, what COULD he do? Complain to the people backstage? CM Punk did that all the time and ALSO worked hard; he needed several nuclear options to keep his career from being completely derailed. If HHH wants to hoist the blame on the 'Summer Of Text Messages' on Nash and Vince, then what does it say that Punk's hard work just got him screwed over by others?

The WWE's issues have never been 'so and so doesn't work hard enough, or doesn't have enough dimension'. It has ALWAYS been 'So and so has power and issues and grudges'. I have to wonder if Paul Levesque would think the same if he'd gotten hosed over and was trying to keep TNA intact or JoinTheForce instead of the benefits he reaped following in those footsteps.

Ryder not going to people backstage to pitch ideas is one of the criticisms leveled against him. It's something he should have done and didn't. It didn't help that his segments were ratings and crowd death before they started to pull the rug out from underneath him. Punk's hard work made him into the second biggest star in the company and the guy they gave the belt to for over a year. Even after all of the missteps they still put him on top of one of the house show tours, put him with the Rock and Undertaker on their two biggest shows and put the belt on him for over a year. Yes Cena was still #1 during that time but he was clearly #2. And despite what Punk says when they did that TLC show without Cena on it that show bombed which could not have instilled confidence that he was ready to main event over Cena.

AngryCaterpillar
Feb 1, 2007

I DREW THIS

Flameingblack posted:

He danced around most questions and didn't say much. He said that Chyna would be hard to induct because of her porn career (Literally, and directly stating that reason)

I'm sure it has nothing to do with her telling the world he spent a year cheating on her with Stephanie.

Spermgod
Jan 8, 2012

pink wasn't even a thing why is t#RXT REVOLUTION~!
and i'm so fucking excited for #SCOOPS#SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS #SCOOPS#SCOOPS

he knows..


Watching that Reigns/Big Show match made me reconsider my insistence that it's wrongheaded to use how many moves he can do as a measurement of his skill as a worker. While it's absolutely true that you can be a great worker without varied offense, I'm not sure that it's possible in the context of the modern WWE style that is built heavily on signature spots. When the majority of your big comeback offense in a 5 minute match is clotheslines (including a jumping clothesline that looks far too similar to the Superman punch and he really shouldn't be using for that reason) you definitely have a problem.

Spermgod fucked around with this message at Feb 3, 2015 around 08:14

a.lo
Sep 11, 2009



keevo posted:

How was the Triple H/Stone Cold podcast thing? Any good takeaways from it?

he wants Raw to be 2 hours and still has feelings for Chyna

RBX
Jan 2, 2011



Austin further beating the dead horse of MUH Kayfabe.

Cardboard Box
Jul 14, 2009



is roman reigns going to beat daniel bryan at fast lane

AngryCaterpillar
Feb 1, 2007

I DREW THIS

Vince isn't sure yet.

Trip Larsen
Oct 4, 2006

My great-grandfather started Larsen Pork Products with little more than three pigs and a killing hammer. Today, I'm proud to say, we kill more pigs than pig hepatitis.

Cardboard Box posted:

is roman reigns going to beat daniel bryan at fast lane
Yes! Yes! Yes!

PUNKS DIET SODA
Nov 24, 2007

John. What are you doing.

Cardboard Box posted:

is roman reigns going to beat daniel bryan at fast lane

Lol yeh

BGrifter
Mar 16, 2007

#1 CAPITALS FAN
Available on the App Store


It's actually a clever solution. They go full steam ahead with Reigns for a few weeks and if it's looking like an utter disaster jump ship to Bryan. If it looks like it could be ok, stick with the plan for Reigns and do Bryan/Ziggler.

Cornwind Evil
Dec 14, 2004


BGrifter posted:

It's actually a clever solution. They go full steam ahead with Reigns for a few weeks and if it's looking like an utter disaster jump ship to Bryan. If it looks like it could be ok, stick with the plan for Reigns and do Bryan/Ziggler.

Or they could just, you know, give Bryan a good title run and have him drop the belt to Reigns at say, Survivor Series. That would pretty much solve all the problems Vince can't seem to wrap his head around.

Big Coffin Hunter
Aug 13, 2005



BGrifter posted:

It's actually a clever solution. They go full steam ahead with Reigns for a few weeks and if it's looking like an utter disaster jump ship to Bryan. If it looks like it could be ok, stick with the plan for Reigns and do Bryan/Ziggler.

i don't mind any of this but bryan/ziggler

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013

No need to apologise when I am right, like usual.





I sort of hope that it's a 10 second squash because the fallout would be infinitely more entertaining than any product the WWE could push out.

Sodomy Hussein
Oct 9, 2005

The right reading for this is the one I'm giving.

I can only foresee that they are going to engage in shenanigans to make the title match a multi-man thing to protect the hell out of Reigns.

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Cornwind Evil posted:

Or they could just, you know, give Bryan a good title run and have him drop the belt to Reigns at say, Survivor Series. That would pretty much solve all the problems Vince can't seem to wrap his head around.

They want to try to make a new top star and Wrestlemania is their biggest stage. Bryan is older and broken down, he isn't the guy they see as their future.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Your voice may have changed but your breath is still the same.

My goodness, Hot Stuff!


Austin was pretty run down when he first got the belt.

Cardboard Box
Jul 14, 2009



and things would probably be different if bryan was a business-changer like austin

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Gonzo McFee posted:

Austin was pretty run down when he first got the belt.

Austin was Steve Austin and put the business into its biggest hot period in history. He was a much hotter commodity than Bryan in the winter of 1998.

Gonzo McFee
Jun 19, 2010

Your voice may have changed but your breath is still the same.

My goodness, Hot Stuff!


Nobody is ging to be a game changer if they keep cutting guys off.

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Action Shakespeare
Mar 25, 2010

TIME magazine's Person of the Year 1996


Rhonne posted:

I just realized there was no New Day match for the beginning of Black History month.

also the bellas spray painted someone black in front of alicia fox

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