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InfinityComplex posted:How to play FF2: Go punch yourself until you have 9999 HP. Nah that'll gently caress you over as enemies with draining attacks deal fractional damage. That includes the final boss.
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Feb 15, 2015 05:58
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Wasn't All The Bravest based around the 'free to play' design by, as South Park puts it, giving players the option to change the steps in the RPG gameplay loop of 'Explore -> Collect -> Spend -> Improve' with with 'Money -> Money -> Money -> Money' whenever they like, as many times as they like... and deliberately designing the game so that doing this many times is the only way for the game to actually be fun all the way through?
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Feb 15, 2015 06:18
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Appropriately, this LP might actually take 25 years to finish. Let's all age like fine wine 
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Feb 15, 2015 06:44
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The more I read, the more I think we'll need to research the mechanics of FFII before we try to start that game, simply to avoid a bunch of wasted time bashing our heads against opaque design.Blockhouse posted:I look forward to talk about how much I hate FFII at length in about a month (?) 5 episodes per week, about half an hour per episode. FFI is estimated to last about 20 hours, so about 8 weeks of episodes before we start FFII.
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Feb 15, 2015 06:45
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FrancisFarterburgr posted:The more I read, the more I think we'll need to research the mechanics of FFII before we try to start that game, simply to avoid a bunch of wasted time bashing our heads against opaque design. I seriously forgot FFI is even that long. And it's still the shortest!
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Feb 15, 2015 08:03
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Assuming that 8 weeks for every game, that's 408 weeks, 102 months, or about 8 and a half years? Now of course some are going to be longer and shorter than others. Good luck man. If you ever do guest commentary, I'd be willing to for a video. Edit: Haha, you already commented on that. I'm bad at reading apparently. Edwhirl fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Feb 15, 2015 |
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Feb 15, 2015 19:02
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Edwhirl posted:Assuming that 8 weeks for every game, that's 408 weeks, 102 months, or about 8 and a half years? Yeah, and Final Fantasy I is probably the shortest in the series. Games like FFXII can easily take 60+ hours. I applaud your ambition, but, uh, yeah... good luck.
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Feb 15, 2015 22:35
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I'm looking forward to this either actually lasting years or burning out spectacularly. I never really got into any FF so maybe you guys can get me interested. Plus if this does last years when I'm a forum veteran I'll be able to look back and see how much better my posting has gotten. (it won't have gotten any better)
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Feb 16, 2015 00:13
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Schwartzcough posted:Yeah, and Final Fantasy I is probably the shortest in the series. Games like FFXII can easily take 60+ hours. I applaud your ambition, but, uh, yeah... good luck. Most FF games can be beaten within 25 hours or so if you just beeline through the game. Most of everyone's inflated times are because they do side stuff.
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Feb 16, 2015 01:08
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Tae posted:Most FF games can be beaten within 25 hours or so if you just beeline through the game. Most of everyone's inflated times are because they do side stuff. Yes, but it's pretty clear these LPers are not of the "beeline through the game" variety, since the first thing they did upon starting the game was grind for 40 minutes.
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Feb 16, 2015 01:18
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 Update: Final Fantasy Episode 3 I guess we'll make progress instead of grinding, if we have to.
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Feb 16, 2015 14:58
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The only thing particularly good about casters in FF1 is you'll have open inventory slots to store all the equipment that casts spells since they can't equip any shields or hats worth using, and there's really very little point in some of the actual good stuff they can equip since their evasion is about the only thing they have going for them. For some reason I have a soft spot for FF1, even though you crack the game difficulty open from moderate to easy as poo poo by like, L10 or so.
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Feb 16, 2015 14:59
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This is awesome and I hope you guys can make it through without going insane or descending into hatred of each other. I'm rooting for you!
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Feb 16, 2015 20:47
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I'm not going to stop being weirded out at the non-GBA version of this game. How did people play this?
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Feb 17, 2015 13:22
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Blockhouse posted:I'm not going to stop being weirded out at the non-GBA version of this game. How did people play this? GBA didn't exist when it came out so it's not exactly like there was a lot of options for playing it somewhere other than on a Nintendo?
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Feb 17, 2015 15:29
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Update: Final Fantasy Episode 4 Blockhouse posted:I'm not going to stop being weirded out at the non-GBA version of this game. How did people play this? Yeah, like Sloober said, you have to look at this game in context. At the time, this game was a real technical accomplishment and a pretty one at that. DO IT TO IT posted:This is awesome and I hope you guys can make it through without going insane or descending into hatred of each other. I'm rooting for you! Thanks!
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Feb 17, 2015 16:05
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I think, for me, the most major pain-in-the-rear end part of FF1's mechanics is the whole lack of re-targeting if a target dies. It just makes the grinding parts that much worse. I do wonder if that was an intentional design. Apart from that, I feel like its a mostly well done game for its time (well, apart from all the broken parts of the magic system - non-working spells, spells that work but are pointless, and intelligence affecting nothing, etc). The monster sprites still hold a certain type of charm, and some are genuinely creepy. One area that I think the original FF1 is way better than the GBA remake is in the party sprites.
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Feb 17, 2015 16:43
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FrancisFarterburgr posted:
Yeah, Final Fantasy was extremely good back in the day when it was all there was. Digging the LP so far... best of luck to you guys!
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Feb 17, 2015 16:43
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Do all the aforementioned bugs in FF1 appear in the Japanese version too or did the English localization cause some?
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Feb 17, 2015 17:00
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Gully Foyle posted:I think, for me, the most major pain-in-the-rear end part of FF1's mechanics is the whole lack of re-targeting if a target dies. It just makes the grinding parts that much worse. I do wonder if that was an intentional design. For me it was the clumsiness of the inventory system. Needing to stock up on huge amounts of potions but only being able to buy one at a time. Not knowing what stuff your jobs can actually equip until you buy it and try to equip it. Having to hand all your equipment back and forth between characters in a horribly slow clumsy system. Pretty sure there's no way to remove a spell once a character has learned it, and you get fewer spell slots per spell level than there are available spells for that level. Just found out you bought one of the non-functioning spells and didn't buy a really useful spell? Too bad, you're stuck with it for the rest of the game. Still, it wasn't too painful to play through, and I was glad for the experience.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:47
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Schwartzcough posted:For me it was the clumsiness of the inventory system. Needing to stock up on huge amounts of potions but only being able to buy one at a time. Not knowing what stuff your jobs can actually equip until you buy it and try to equip it. Having to hand all your equipment back and forth between characters in a horribly slow clumsy system. Pretty sure there's no way to remove a spell once a character has learned it, and you get fewer spell slots per spell level than there are available spells for that level. Just found out you bought one of the non-functioning spells and didn't buy a really useful spell? Too bad, you're stuck with it for the rest of the game. The Nintendo Power guide saved me a lot of pain. I was still awful at the game. I think I started playing at 7 and would keep trying to rush to the next objective without grinding over and over again. It never ended well. Also Fighter Fighter Fighter Red Mage
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Feb 17, 2015 22:00
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Update: Final Fantasy Episode 5 Schwartzcough posted:For me it was the clumsiness of the inventory system. Needing to stock up on huge amounts of potions but only being able to buy one at a time. Not knowing what stuff your jobs can actually equip until you buy it and try to equip it. Having to hand all your equipment back and forth between characters in a horribly slow clumsy system. Pretty sure there's no way to remove a spell once a character has learned it, and you get fewer spell slots per spell level than there are available spells for that level. Just found out you bought one of the non-functioning spells and didn't buy a really useful spell? Too bad, you're stuck with it for the rest of the game. We definitely have a couple episodes where we're having to buy items we can't actually use and trade them around the party and it feels like a significant low point for the game. Also it's insanely noisy because of the game's need to beep and bloop every time you do anything in a menu. But yeah I think the actual best parties in the game are either quad Fighter or three Fighters and a Red Mage. Fighter is just the best class by a mile.
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Feb 18, 2015 16:50
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FrancisFarterburgr posted:
I preferred blackbelts since their melee damage is basically one-shot for anything after a point, and every 32 hit% they got two extra hits instead of just one. Not the best defenses but bracelets are about as good later on.
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Feb 18, 2015 18:54
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I'm looking forward to blood sword awesomness/horror and the soldiers one-hitting you in that one town, in ffII.
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Feb 18, 2015 19:01
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Blockhouse posted:I'm not going to stop being weirded out at the non-GBA version of this game. How did people play this? Very slowly.
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Feb 18, 2015 19:04
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Blockhouse posted:I'm not going to stop being weirded out at the non-GBA version of this game. How did people play this? They were in awe at the depth of the game. Back in my day we did not have fancy user-friendly interfaces or intuitive mechanics. You didn't beat games back then; they tried to beat you. Welp, time is up, I need to head back to the old folks home.
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Feb 18, 2015 21:28
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Eh, what the heck. I've been looking for another podcast-type LP to follow, you've got my attention. Seriously though, I would say that straight grinding is worth speeding up/cutting out, and'll reduce the amount of videos/updates needed to "finish" a game. Then again that might also greatly increase the pace and burn you out faster so I guess it depends on game to game. Would definitely say 2 and 3 will need editing, probably 5 and 8 too. Willing to believe 4/6/9 will be relatively short considering you don't really need to grind in them if you're going for most of the bonus content anyway. Anyway, as for this game, does the NES version still have the hidden puzzle minigame?
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Feb 19, 2015 14:53
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Unknown Quantity posted:Eh, what the heck. I've been looking for another podcast-type LP to follow, you've got my attention. Seriously though, I would say that straight grinding is worth speeding up/cutting out, and'll reduce the amount of videos/updates needed to "finish" a game. Then again that might also greatly increase the pace and burn you out faster so I guess it depends on game to game. The NES game is where the puzzle started at, so yeah it's in there.
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Feb 19, 2015 15:01
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Update: Final Fantasy Episode 6 Sloober posted:I preferred blackbelts since their melee damage is basically one-shot for anything after a point, and every 32 hit% they got two extra hits instead of just one. Not the best defenses but bracelets are about as good later on. Huh, I was always under the impression that black belts became terrible in the late game. I don't know that I've ever given them a proper chance. Unknown Quantity posted:Eh, what the heck. I've been looking for another podcast-type LP to follow, you've got my attention. Seriously though, I would say that straight grinding is worth speeding up/cutting out, and'll reduce the amount of videos/updates needed to "finish" a game. Then again that might also greatly increase the pace and burn you out faster so I guess it depends on game to game.  I've explained why we think that presenting the true (and sometimes slow) experience of the game has value, but you've also demonstrated another reason behind the structure of the LP. We determined very early on that in order to have a consistent upload schedule, we would need a consistent recording and editing schedule. We record once per week for around 3.5 to 5 hours. Of that, I can make about 5 to 7 episodes in our current editing style, slowly building a backlog that helps if we need to take a week off. If I became more aggressive in the editing, I would end up with fewer episodes, which would necessitate either a change in the upload schedule or an increase in the amount of recording. Since our schedules are strained as it is, we likely wouldn't record more, and instead shift to uploading maybe 3 videos per week. However, those three videos would require much more editing to produce, lengthening the editing schedule. I don't have a ton of extra time between my full time job, full time marriage, and this LP, so what would be likely to happen is that despite having a 3 video per week schedule, there would be more frequent delays in uploading due to not being able to finish the editing in time. This disagrees with our determination to be consistent. It would also cause our schedule to vary significantly between games that require grinding (FFI) and games that don't (FFXIII). That said, I've also said that I will be editing out/speeding up any content that has little to no value in the commentary and gameplay. And please don't misunderstand, feedback is valuable and yours is valid. I just want to explain our thought process. / I don't think I remember or even know about the hidden puzzle minigame. Is it interesting enough to try to cover? PM me if it's spoilery.
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Feb 19, 2015 16:07
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Alternatively you could choose not to do needless grinding. I don't think I've ever ground EXP in any of the FFs, even on my first playthroughs. Grinding is there to help you if you're having a hard time, not the main feature of the game, and this is true of most RPGs I've found, even the older ones (the only exception I can think of is the original Dragon Quest, maybe Dragon quest II as well, not familiar with that one).
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Feb 19, 2015 16:55
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Genocyber posted:Alternatively you could choose not to do needless grinding. I don't think I've ever ground EXP in any of the FFs, even on my first playthroughs. Grinding is there to help you if you're having a hard time, not the main feature of the game, and this is true of most RPGs I've found, even the older ones (the only exception I can think of is the original Dragon Quest, maybe Dragon quest II as well, not familiar with that one). Grinding is pretty much mandatory in 1 and 2. 3 you probably need it as well. Final Fantasy 4 is the first game to not really need it except maybe in the late end-game.
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Feb 19, 2015 17:24
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Genocyber posted:Alternatively you could choose not to do needless grinding. I don't think I've ever ground EXP in any of the FFs, even on my first playthroughs. Grinding is there to help you if you're having a hard time, not the main feature of the game, and this is true of most RPGs I've found, even the older ones (the only exception I can think of is the original Dragon Quest, maybe Dragon quest II as well, not familiar with that one). Then you haven't played FFI, at the very least. Grinding is absolutely required, even the current best non-TAS non-glitch speedrun of the game had grinding segments. But many of the Final Fantasy games do not require grinding, so this will become a non-issue as time passes.
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Feb 19, 2015 17:53
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FrancisFarterburgr posted:Huh, I was always under the impression that black belts became terrible in the late game. I don't know that I've ever given them a proper chance. They're good. I've had a longstanding tradition where I use a master to one shot the final boss. Fist damage exceeds whatever weapon you can equip them with by about level 6 or 7 or so IIRC, and goes up every level - along with the whole +2 hits instead of 1 every 32 Hit%.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:00
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Sloober posted:They're good. I've had a longstanding tradition where I use a master to one shot the final boss. Fist damage exceeds whatever weapon you can equip them with by about level 6 or 7 or so IIRC, and goes up every level - along with the whole +2 hits instead of 1 every 32 Hit%. One reason so many people disliked black belts is they often left the nunchucks equipped because they increase attack power and never realized that if you unequip them you get a lot more attacks and more total damage. As a side bonus if you are playing in the original NES version black belts do not need equipment so you can use them to store stuff in the horribly bad way the game limits your ability to carry weapons and armor.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:21
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Yeah, FF1 requires some grinding. Still, I'd probably try to grind in higher-level areas rather than hanging out with imps that give 6 EXP per battle, because then it takes forever to actually gain any levels. (I assume they've moved on by this point, but I've only seen through episode 4 or so where they're still hanging out in the first dungeon).
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Feb 19, 2015 19:39
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FrancisFarterburgr posted:Then you haven't played FFI, at the very least. Grinding is absolutely required, even the current best non-TAS non-glitch speedrun of the game had grinding segments. But many of the Final Fantasy games do not require grinding, so this will become a non-issue as time passes. If you don't run from the majority of battles then you absolutely do not need to ever spend time grinding. Xenocides posted:One reason so many people disliked black belts is they often left the nunchucks equipped because they increase attack power and never realized that if you unequip them you get a lot more attacks and more total damage. As a side bonus if you are playing in the original NES version black belts do not need equipment so you can use them to store stuff in the horribly bad way the game limits your ability to carry weapons and armor. Nunchucks and armor you do want early on. After a certain level (forget which) their non-equipped defense and atk start to eclipse and surpass that of w/e gear they can use.
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Feb 19, 2015 19:45
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Genocyber posted:If you don't run from the majority of battles then you absolutely do not need to ever spend time grinding. Level up enough to be able to unlock a certain key item to go to a place too early to get an item that casts a LIT2 and it's faster than fighting everything early on. The power of spell items is so huge that the game goes from lengthy battles to 1-2 round fights, since you can cast a -2 level spell every round without running out of spell slots, early on it's not super feasible to do every fight (When progressing the story) since you will simply run out of the ability to stay alive, especially with how long some dungeons get compared to the encounter rates. Later on though sure. And yeah I never really had to grind, I only ever did it to buy spells I would never use. The game is pretty good about throwing equipment at you after you're out of the main starter dungeon, since weapon/armor shops stop selling upgrades really early on. Bracers are always worth using on BBs since they don't tank evasion and offer some absorb, with later bracers giving 25 - 35 pts of it with no evasion hit. I was always super anal about always checking the stat screen to see how abs/eva and damage/hit changed with every weapon or armor. The point where fist damage is greater than weapon damage is about L6/7. I usually never even bothered to buy the woodchucks in the first town.
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Feb 19, 2015 20:08
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Monks (Blackbelts) should use Nunchucks until about level 8, then their unarmed skill is better overall, with a sharp improvement at level 10 when they gain another two attacks. Then its every 10-11 levels after that they get another two attacks. While they do get passive gains to their absorb and evade if they wear nothing, that is never a good idea since gear will always outpace their passive skills. Here's the thing about FF1, since it is such a simple game and surprisingly open, you don't need to grind. At all. The group the OP has needs 1500 gold to buy LIT2 and to hit level 6 on the way to and from the Dwarf Cave and the Elflands and they are set. From there on out, all the experience they'll need will be supplied just walking from place to place and the gold from chests tucked here and there. You'll grind just by wandering around and collecting all the goods. Hell, even if you run away from half the fights you'll still be fine. Krumbsthumbs fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Feb 19, 2015 |
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Feb 19, 2015 22:49
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This seems awesome as hell. Godspeed, you kings of New England!
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Feb 20, 2015 03:38
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 Update: Final Fantasy Episode 7 Based on what everyone is saying, I think I never understood the black belt and probably left the nunchucks equipped for too long. Now I kind of wish Brad was a black belt, oh well. We're recording tonight, and we'll be trying to play without grinding as much as we can. What we encountered last time was that we would go to the Marsh Cave, find a couple things, and run out of heals/pures and have to go back. Butting up against a wall like that is usually an indication in games that you are not equipped to deal with the area. Combine that with the fact that you can go to these towns that have all of these weapon, armor, and spell upgrades available but beyond your reach financially, it shouldn't be a surprise that our natural inclination was to try to obtain money to buy those items. Right now, it feels as though the game is telling us that we should buy better gear and we're being told here that we don't need to. I think part of that might be because we don't use much in the way of recovery items until future episodes, but I'm not sure. When I'm told that there's no need to grind in Final Fantasy, it's so opposed to my actual experience of the game that I feel like it can't be true. But what's likely is that I played this game as a kid, ground to get the best of everything at all points in the game, and that's now set in my mind as the way to play the game. Obviously we don't want to bore ourselves and everyone else with grinding, so I will do my best to resist the impulse. We're probably just not playing the game very well, and we'll gladly take tips on how to be better (like using more healing items, yea or nay?). And keep in mind, episodes we record tonight with this new mindset won't be uploaded until late next week at the earliest, so bear with us. We'll get there.
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Feb 20, 2015 19:30
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