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Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008


This is the thread where you politely and calmly discuss things in games you like that you do not like about the game that you like. Please, do that thing.

Here, I'll start: I adore Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, but its alignments are heavily skewed in the favor of Chaos, even so far as requiring you finish the game as Chaos in order to unlock some super fun NG+ boss fights, and altering a boss depending on your alignment in Chapter 3 where only one of the two possible bosses is eligible for a later sidequest, and you cannot encounter either of those bosses anywhere else in the game. Possibly I find this annoying because I like being nice in video games and being nice in video games is the Law option in that game. Either way, I think it's kinda dumb.

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Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?



I guess the bosses in Arkham Asylum are kind of bad, that's the only thing I can think of that's wrong with it.

Super Metroid is, uh, too short. I guess the graphics were kind of bad for the time but they're still very atmospheric.

The first Silent Hill game really suffered from being on the PS1 and trying to do a sort of open world was way too ambitious, plus it's kind of not really at all fun to play any more outside of nostalgia.

Kinu Nishimura
Apr 23, 2008


Sakurazuka posted:

Super Metroid is, uh, too short. I guess the graphics were kind of bad for the time but they're still very atmospheric.

To be fair, the series- in 2D at least- is kinda designed with speedrunning in mind.

Actually, that reminds me! Power Bombs in Fusion and Zero Mission. Fusion has way the gently caress too many Power Bomb expansions, who is EVER going to use 74 of those things, and Zero Mission giving them to you literally in front of the final boss room and then expecting you to go back on a mad dash through the entire game so far to pick out everywhere they could've possibly been useful was kind of a dumb decision. Also, hiding the version of the final boss that was remotely not a joke behind having 100% items was also kinda lame. Zero Mission still loving ruled though

Slime
Jan 3, 2007


alcharagia posted:

This is the thread where you politely and calmly discuss things in games you like that you do not like about the game that you like. Please, do that thing.

Here, I'll start: I adore Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon, but its alignments are heavily skewed in the favor of Chaos, even so far as requiring you finish the game as Chaos in order to unlock some super fun NG+ boss fights, and altering a boss depending on your alignment in Chapter 3 where only one of the two possible bosses is eligible for a later sidequest, and you cannot encounter either of those bosses anywhere else in the game. Possibly I find this annoying because I like being nice in video games and being nice in video games is the Law option in that game. Either way, I think it's kinda dumb.

Which is weird, because usually both Law and Chaos come off as pretty horrible things do be in SMT games, with Neutral being the alignment the average person can most relate to.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

I really like savage 2. It is an old game but was fun as hell.

Each team had similar units with slightly different skills with a few exceptions.

They moved combat from a block->attack->interrupt system to a block gauge system and I don't know why. It may have been because people could just hold block and beat someone who just spams attacks but the old system was nice.

If you have ever played rock paper scissors with someone and seen the sight of a best of two out of three going on for over twenty turns then you can kinda understand how combat would work in this game. You would start to learn who you were fighting by name and what they opened with. You would then predict this while they were also predicting that you knew this.

What could of been a quick battle was then a battle of guessing with each person pulling off and thinking about it.

The other system they had just punished you less if you made a mistake and you would run out of block making it so someone could just spam attacks and overwhelm it.

Also creating a game where there is a commander unit is kinda alright, but a bad commander punishes the team way more than bad people playing the units. Also lack of a commander hurt.

The beasts getting a super speed kamakazi ability on their free guy also made late games a bit bad since it was hard to stop them from getting close.

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused


Pikmin 3 is pretty and fun but inferior to Pikmin 2, the greatest game ever made. I thought about this and I think the main reason is because Pikmin 3 feels very linear. You're told exactly where to go and you usually have nowhere to go but that place. There's not really much choice about how to progress in the game. In Pikmin 2 and even Pikmin 1, you are pretty free to look at the map and figure out where you wanna go. The game gives you a goal but you can about accomplishing that goal by visiting different places. You don't have to follow a set order of progress. In Pikmin 3, there's really nothing to do in most areas other than complete the story objective and then bugger off. There's only one way to reach the story objective as well.

No Dignity
Oct 15, 2007



Bayonetta's difficulty is way too punitive. Even accounting for the whole 'Bayonetta is an awesome domme and you should feel privileged to be playing her game' feel Kayima was presumably going for it's ridiculous how even on normal the game just chews you up, spits you out then downranks you and deducts currency from you for not being a natural character action master. The sequel is a ton better about it but generally if you're going to deliberately design your game to be aggressively difficult, don't deliberately and irreversibly penalise the player for dying

John Murdoch
May 19, 2009

I can tune a fish.


alcharagia posted:

To be fair, the series- in 2D at least- is kinda designed with speedrunning in mind.

Actually, that reminds me! Power Bombs in Fusion and Zero Mission. Fusion has way the gently caress too many Power Bomb expansions, who is EVER going to use 74 of those things, and Zero Mission giving them to you literally in front of the final boss room and then expecting you to go back on a mad dash through the entire game so far to pick out everywhere they could've possibly been useful was kind of a dumb decision. Also, hiding the version of the final boss that was remotely not a joke behind having 100% items was also kinda lame. Zero Mission still loving ruled though

Super Metroid: Wall jumping. It's not required to beat the game, thankfully, but it's entirely possible to get stuck in that pit with those three jumpy dudes, because while the game is trying to teach you how to do it, it does a pretty poor job at communicating a relatively unintuitive mechanic.

Zero Mission: I really, really didn't like the last chunk of items being locked behind tedious, exacting Shine Spark sections. Also that one expansion where you have to Ball Spark, which I still have no idea how to do (or rather, do low enough to the ground to get through the tunnel).

Anonymous Robot
Jun 1, 2007

Lost his leg in Robo War I


Killer7 is an excellent game, but its gameplay is too simplistic, likely due to hesitation for making a first-person shooter game for the Gamecube controller. (Resident Evil 4 proved this to be no problem.) Because of this, it's made rather easy. That's not to say that the unusual camera and movement choices were poor decisions- they weren't. Rather, it's bizarrely obvious that the game was a few years before its time; it is, from the ground up, a lightgun game. It would have been perfect for release on the Wii.

The game's movement system uses the A button only, with a button dedicated to turning around, and otherwise the player chooses branching paths with a "shattered glass" motif that could easily have been shootable. The enemies in the game can be more easily (and sometimes only) killed by shooting a small target which often requires some trick shooting to reveal, and dispense bonuses for doing so. Two of the boss fights in the game even come in the form of a series of quick-draw duels, which would've been possible to emulate in a very fun way on the Wii.

The use of a lightgun in Killer7 would have made the gameplay far better, would've opened up design possibilities, and even contributed to the game's artistic statement. It's a shame that we'll never see a re-release with this kind of functionality.

Looper
Mar 1, 2012



Skies of Arcadia (Legends) is like my favoritest game ever, BUT *takes deep breath*

-The battle system is kinda neat with the whole balancing SP between your party thing and how many spells and specials utilize character positions in the planar battlefield, there's just one thing: you have no positioning system. So while you have moves that "hit all enemies in a straight line" or "hit all enemies in a circle," you have no control over where any of your characters are standing, so whether those moves are as effective as they can be is a big crapshoot. It's a wasted opportunity. Incidentally, Trails in the Sky has the kind of system I would've liked to see here.

-The battle system is also super unbalanced, in two major ways. First, specials are way better than magic. Magic kinda sucks outside of healing and buffing, and since both magic and special moves draw mainly from your party-shared SP stock, you'll more often than not just choose to use the superior specials. One of your party members is The Mage, but since healing spells are all hardcoded numbers instead of factoring in the caster's magic stat, and the speed stat determines turn order, you'll just have the speedy character do all the healing (spoilers the mage isn't the fastest). Second, items are way better than magic. Most battle items in the game are just consumable spells. This isn't a game where you'll have money problems. You'll never cast magic.

*pauses to take another breath*

Okay I'm done for now but I'll be back

Dandywalken
Feb 11, 2014



ArmA3 gives me a great opportunity to feel elitist about my game choices over those who prefer more conventional FPS games, but it fails to reach its full potential on many counts.

- A game that takes place in 2035, but no crazy drone poo poo. You know the HK Drones that fly around in Terminator? Imagine being able to control one of those from a loving UAV Terminal on close-air support missions over a bigass island, greifing your friends from 30 km away. It'd be loving amazing.

- Someone stole all the furniture in all the buildings. Its mentioned in newspapers you find in the street and blowing around in the wind, but still what the hell where all the chairs at?

- Its ArmA, so its eternally going to run like poo poo on PC's that are up to the recommended spec or surpassing them. Its the ArmA way, and has been since the series was called Operation Flashpoint back in 2000.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

The pretense for Resident Evil (remake) is that it's a hardcore survival horror, and while there's plenty about the game that evokes this feeling, the truth is that you can kill a good 90% of the enemies in the game with simple ammo management and not firing blindly like an idiot. The only time you actually need to conserve and run away in Resident Evil is when you pick hard mode.

Final Fantasy 14 relies too much on simple quest design at times and I kinda wish it had more dumb gimmick quests like World of Warcraft.

Resident Evil 4's whole back half kinda sucks.

Super Mario 64's turning circle and physics are kinda hosed up and make the game far more frustrating than it needs to be.

Junk
Dec 20, 2003

Listen to reason, man. Why make your job difficult?

Metal Gear Solid 3 - for the first 3 hours of the game you only get to play like 20 minutes of it.

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Even though I have nothing, I yearn for something
Trapped with nothing, I closed off tomorrow
Though I have nothing, because I have nothing
I found it here: This melody


Soul Nomad & The World Eaters has negative production values. Every 'cutscene' is jsut a bunch of static portraits standing around talking - not even portraits that change expressions, like in Disgaea or Phoenix Wright, literally static. There's maybe three cutscenes in the game with actual sprite animation, and one of those is a five second long fight that just reuses the character's battle animations.

Also, you have to sit around for about an hour hitting a randomize button so you can get a decently sized squad of units.

Also the 'post-game' is literally just two boss fights.

Also while I like the plot, so much of it is just dumped into your lap at the very end in a giant exposition wall.

Also there's multiple endings, but the only way to get them is to grind affection by just stapling the character you want to get an ending with to your main character's side for the entire game.

chumbler
Mar 28, 2010



Transistor was a cool game that I really enjoyed, and it was ambitious but unfortunately fell short of those ambitions in a few ways. Bastion was a hard act to follow and they're a small studio, so I'll cut them a little slack, but the game really kind of had that feeling that the developers don't really have any other ideas and can't escape their big hit's shadow. Both settings are basically post-apocalypse, both have a silent player character (though Red at least has some characterization), and both largely rely on a single speaking character who sounds almost the same in both games and has no real interaction with the player beyond talking at them, but Transistor's narrator has less charisma and relevance than Bastion's. If these were largely superficial similarities it wouldn't be too bad, but it's really difficult to escape the feeling that you're pretty much just playing Bastion again.

Mechanically, the turn system is an interesting idea, but it and the basic combat mechanics and balance needed more development. One of the strengths of Bastion was that the weapons were straightforward, distinct, and all felt good to use and were well balanced. You could talk to 5 different people who played it and hear 5 different favorite loadouts. The same can't really be said of Transistor's various commands. There is pretty much one loadout that does the most damage by such a wide margin that there's no point even considering any others, and moreover the game seems aware of this and balances later encounters around it. Since one-shotting enemies is a real possibility, there is little reason to try to do anything clever with your options, since nothing is better than just flat out killing the enemies.

An additional issue is that most actions are so slow outside of the turn system and the few that are fast deal negligible damage, the best approach is to just do maximum damage in a turn, which leads to a lot of waiting between turns because you can't do anything particularly useful. Thematically it's appropriate that Red should not be particularly good at fighting unless she's basically cheating, but having the player have periods of clear weakness is a difficult thing to get right. The zero suit segment of Metroid Zero Mission is really the only example of doing it well that I can think of, and even that is still a bit debatable. Perhaps most damning to the game mechanically is that the turn system was horribly underused for puzzles. Putting in puzzles requiring clever use of the limited actions available in turns and available commands could have done wonders for the game, but turn gets used all of once for a trivial "flip two switches at once" puzzle.

I still greatly enjoyed the game and would recommend it, but the developers need to pay more attention to the game portions of their games if they're going to try a new system, and they need to work toward differentiating future games from the now two very similar games they've made and, more importantly, escape the shadow of their first major success.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers

I take issue with the criticism that everyone used the same loadout in Transistor, I constantly experimented with my loadout and found new interesting combos and strategies, even finding a few that were likely pretty unusual.

Everything else you mentioned is pretty fair though, I think if they return to this formula for their next game it'll be a pretty big disappointment.

Discount Viscount
Jul 9, 2010

FIND THE FISH!


Mega Man X Collection removed the voice clip of X shouting "Hadoken!"

Persona 3 and 4 take forever to start.

Persona 4 has a dialog tree fairly late in the game that you have to answer correctly to go on to the real ending(s), which is all well and good, except that if you gently caress it up the previous save point is like 30 minutes of noninteractive cutscenes and dialog before it. 30 minutes if you're scrolling through the text as fast as you can, that is. I messed it up the first time and upon realizing what I had to go through again I became rather frustrated, which didn't help me not gently caress it up several more times.

Granted, a good bit of that is on me for missing one or two of the dialog options, but with that fricking time barrier it's little wonder I was so hasty and forgotten which ones I'd explored already.

Speaking of things I feel slightly like an idiot for getting brickwalled by, but only slightly: learning to fish in Nier.*


drat, that would have been cool, and they could have easily supported it on the PS2 version.

*Please don't argue about this. We know. No one is going to change their minds. I do see your point, thank you, but I still disagree, and that's fine. I'm sorry I even brought it up. Also Smash is a fighting game and I love all the items and here is my theory about the Zelda timeline:

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011




The camera sure does suck in Metal Gear Rising: Revengance

Fergus Mac Roich
Nov 5, 2008



Soiled Meat

The guy who came up with the controls for Gothic 1 was high on PCP.

edit: What hosed up terrifying rave drugs were popular in Germany in the 90s anyway?

Fergus Mac Roich fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Feb 13, 2015

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


The Civilization and Tropico games are pretty fun, but they just take too drat long to play.

MarioTeachesWiping
Nov 1, 2006

by XyloJW


I really like Resident Evil 6, but the game doesn't explain all the cool poo poo at your disposal so it's a miserable experience the first time you pick it up. Also it's been patched to fix most of its issues, including the excessive QTE's, lack of chapter select, and cramped camera.

I wish the game hadn't had these problems at launch because I think it's a much, much better game than Resi 5, but it's gonna have that bad rep of initial backlash associated with it forever.

The Shortest Path
Jun 21, 2012



Discount Viscount posted:

Persona 4 has a dialog tree fairly late in the game that you have to answer correctly to go on to the real ending(s), which is all well and good, except that if you gently caress it up the previous save point is like 30 minutes of noninteractive cutscenes and dialog before it. 30 minutes if you're scrolling through the text as fast as you can, that is. I messed it up the first time and upon realizing what I had to go through again I became rather frustrated, which didn't help me not gently caress it up several more times.

Granted, a good bit of that is on me for missing one or two of the dialog options, but with that fricking time barrier it's little wonder I was so hasty and forgotten which ones I'd explored already.

I definitely have to agree with you here. Persona 4 is one of my favorite RPGs of all time (probably tied for first place with Strange Journey which, heh... let's not get into that) but goddamn was that entire scene bad. From the awful dialog tree nonsense to Yosuke being a dumbass and a whole plethora of other issues. It really dragged down an otherwise enjoyable climax.

I also really hate fusion in the original, thank god the Vita fixed that.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



MarioTeachesWiping posted:

I really like Resident Evil 6, but the game doesn't explain all the cool poo poo at your disposal so it's a miserable experience the first time you pick it up. Also it's been patched to fix most of its issues, including the excessive QTE's, lack of chapter select, and cramped camera.

I wish the game hadn't had these problems at launch because I think it's a much, much better game than Resi 5, but it's gonna have that bad rep of initial backlash associated with it forever.

Wait, they fixed half the poo poo in it? I may check it out again, then.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Basically all of the gameplay from Alpha Protocol. The okay stealth, the tedious hacking minigames, and typically Obsidian bugginess got in the way of what is, without any close competition, my favorite RPG of all time. The immense replayability is marred by the fact that you have to go through the Middle East every time.

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011




Speedball posted:

Wait, they fixed half the poo poo in it? I may check it out again, then.

The campaign is still utter poo poo though.

Scaly Haylie
Dec 25, 2004



Also in Persona 4, it's flat out game over if the main character dies in battle. I think the same applies to Persona 3 as well, but I'm not too sure.

Scaly Haylie fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Feb 13, 2015

Dr_Amazing
Apr 15, 2006

It's a long story

The new Deus Ex is really cool. I love almost everything about it but I don't know what they were thinking with the boss battles. The whole game is structured about having all these ways to get through everything a bunch of different ways. There's achievements for getting through without setting off any alarms or not killing anyone (except bosses). Then the boss battles are always the same standup fights. If you put all your points into stealth and hacking, or you're only carrying non-lethal weapons, you're in for a very un-fun time. Even if you're properly equipped they aren't really that great.

Unreal_One posted:

Basically all of the gameplay from Alpha Protocol. The okay stealth, the tedious hacking minigames, and typically Obsidian bugginess got in the way of what is, without any close competition, my favorite RPG of all time. The immense replayability is marred by the fact that you have to go through the Middle East every time.

Thanks I've been trying to remember this game since playing Deus Ex. I remember the previews looking awesome. I guess it's not so good?

Lord Lambeth
Dec 7, 2011




Dr_Amazing posted:

Thanks I've been trying to remember this game since playing Deus Ex. I remember the previews looking awesome. I guess it's not so good?

It's good if you like deus ex style reactivity. The non-dialogue parts are passable at best. Just spec in pistols and stealth, you'll be fine.

Speedball
Apr 15, 2008



Unreal_One posted:

Basically all of the gameplay from Alpha Protocol. The okay stealth, the tedious hacking minigames, and typically Obsidian bugginess got in the way of what is, without any close competition, my favorite RPG of all time. The immense replayability is marred by the fact that you have to go through the Middle East every time.

Oh, man, if only the gameplay wasn't the game's own biggest obstacle. The way the game keeps track of everything you do and say was amazing. A very flawed gem, but a gem nonetheless.

Lyer
Feb 4, 2008



Guild Wars 2 is an amazing mmo with quality of life features that is head and shoulders above the competition, but the group content it has is completely atrocious and far below its peers.

Third World Reagan
May 19, 2008

Imagine four 'mechs waiting in a queue. Time works the same way.

GW2 has a lot of nice things but I can't help feeling like every class is absolutely boring.

Fergus Mac Roich
Nov 5, 2008



Soiled Meat

Third World Reggin posted:

GW2 has a lot of nice things but I can't help feeling like every class is absolutely boring.

I found Guardian pretty fun.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.


Wolfenstein the New Order is amazing, but I wish the Moon had had more to it.

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.



Dr_Amazing posted:

Thanks I've been trying to remember this game since playing Deus Ex. I remember the previews looking awesome. I guess it's not so good?

It's absolutely brilliant, but it definitely has its flaws. For instance, the most boring quarter of the game is the first bit. The other 3/4ths can be done in any order, and playing them in a different order can have startling effects.

Shwqa
Feb 13, 2012



I have been replaying final fantasy tactics again. Great game, but holy gently caress the first chapter is a god drat train wreck.

For the first chapter, the game reduces the limit the amount of playable characters you can bring into battle by one. In exchange you get two npcs "helping" you out. However the npcs are weak idiots. They will gladly rush the enemy and died. If they died then they lose their only chance to gain experience and will stay weak for the rest of the chapter. So if you know this you can make them healers/range fighters, they are still pretty meh the too.

The 3rd or 4th mission of the game is one of the hardest fights in the game. The enemy is far stronger than anything else you have faced so far. There is a high tower with an archer on it. That archer can hit most of the map. And he will make sure to kill any freshly revived characters before you can heal them. Your two moron ai buddies will always bum rush the only route to the archer in a way best described as a three stooges act. You are best off ignoring that archer while the ai spends half the missions on just one enemy.

The last mission is a difficulty spike too. One of your ai buddies is permanently dead. Your other ai buddy will blindly attack the boss regardless of what class he is. However the boss has a 32% chance of healing 30 hp each time you attack him. You can not level up ai characters outside of storyline missions, so odds are your ai character will heal the boss and then die. And the rest of the battle is brutal too. My main character could be one shot by the mages on that map.


Finally I'm done with that chapter and the rest of the game is smooth sailing. Oh hey that engineer I have to rescue... game over because he died on the first turn...

Shwqa fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Feb 13, 2015

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA



Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne was excellent, but the Matador wall was a bad addition to the game - it forces you to get a Force user, and there's like...one available that early on. Also, the magic attack items are near useless.

Another game I like - Shadowrun Returns - was fun, but I think we can all agree that the last level in it was terrible (too many enemies you can't kill normally, you have to haul around a weapon that eats up one of your slots, way too long) and it's minor, but I hate it when you get three dialogue options that all lead to the same response. Illusion of choice, in other words - I like the illusion when it's well done, but it was too transparent several times in that game. I'm looking forward to picking up Dragonfall, though.

Tuxedo Catfish
Mar 17, 2007

You've got guts! Come to my village, I'll buy you lunch.


Third World Reggin posted:

GW2 has a lot of nice things but I can't help feeling like every class is absolutely boring.

The class balance is interesting and varied in PvP, but the PvE is too easy and demands nothing but "more DPS" which means they all end up playing almost identically in that context.

Haruharuharuko
Mar 24, 2008

Yeah I lied; so what is the truth?


Internet Kraken posted:

Pikmin 3 is pretty and fun but inferior to Pikmin 2, the greatest game ever made. I thought about this and I think the main reason is because Pikmin 3 feels very linear. You're told exactly where to go and you usually have nowhere to go but that place. There's not really much choice about how to progress in the game. In Pikmin 2 and even Pikmin 1, you are pretty free to look at the map and figure out where you wanna go. The game gives you a goal but you can about accomplishing that goal by visiting different places. You don't have to follow a set order of progress. In Pikmin 3, there's really nothing to do in most areas other than complete the story objective and then bugger off. There's only one way to reach the story objective as well.
:gbsmith::hf::gbsmith: Finally someone who agrees with me. While Pikmin 3 is great it just doesn't hold a candle to 2.

As for another game I like but have a beef with. I actually really liked Titanfall despite what everyone says, but man that game has some serious loving problems including but not limited to, literally no single player content, the lowest weapon count I've ever seen in a progression based online FPS, way too few maps(seriously less than half what Quake 3 shipped with), and it not being available on the leading platform at the time, the advertising blitz to end all blitzes, at this point being in a Titan is basically a death sentence, the low player counts on massive maps (though the bot scrub players help). Despite all this that game is great and a sequel should be pretty awesome.

rizuhbull
Mar 30, 2011



So many people think Resident Evil 5 is better than 6, even though 6 is just 5 with more content. These people are wrong and baffle me.

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Wrageowrapper
Apr 30, 2009

DRINK! ARSE! FECKIN CHRISTMAS!

Little Big Adventure is the first game that got me thinking about a games world in a very ungame-like way with the atmosphere being the best at the time and the animations are still fantastic for a game released in '94. Without a doubt one of my top 5 games of all time.
I have no problems with the fact you can die by running into walls or the behaviour system or the fact that you cannot jump while running but after recently replaying this for the upteenth time I have to admit the story is terrible. Its just a go rescue the princess affair which is a real shame given that its basically set in a world of cute animals in Nazi Germany.

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