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Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Yeah, I've been running over the possibilities since the end of N4, I don't think this game is winnable for town any more.

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Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



ShadowGlass posted:

One thing that bothered me about Squid's claim today is that the inventors I have seen in other games could not use their own items. They always had to give the items away and the recipient could use it.

This is true and I never claimed otherwise??

Rarity posted:

This is an out-of-nowhere asspull that gives us a reason to ignore Squid completely today, so I'm thinking it's him. ##vote Squid

If I'd gotten recruited I'd be arguing that town's best chance is to succumb to the vampires so that everyone still alive gets to win. >:| As it is I think town's got a chance to pull this off still, also voting for the guy you think is the powerless recruit? I mean you just claimed scum but wow.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



Rarity posted:

Yeah, I've been running over the possibilities since the end of N4, I don't think this game is winnable for town any more.

We kill you today and roleblock the OG vampire tonight, easy peasy. I'd wager it's Gabriel Pope and I doubt we're gonna get more information to clear things up today.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Abyssal Squid posted:

This is true and I never claimed otherwise??

Then how is someone meant to roleblock tonight if they're not getting it until tonight?

quote:

also voting for the guy you think is the powerless recruit? I mean you just claimed scum but wow.

I'm just playing the percentages, you know you'd do the same in my situation.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



Rarity posted:

Then how is someone meant to roleblock tonight if they're not getting it until tonight?

Not sure why I'm trying to convince scum, but I already gave it out last night.

quote:

I'm just playing the percentages, you know you'd do the same in my situation.

Hell no I wouldn't, did you see how I was arguing for ignoring Chic/Glockenapfel in favor of going after the active scum?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Abyssal Squid posted:

We kill you today and roleblock the OG vampire tonight, easy peasy.

What if the other vampire's doing the NK?

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



If recruits can do night actions and/or we miss the OG vampire then we're screwed

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Abyssal Squid posted:

If recruits can do night actions and/or we miss the OG vampire then we're screwed

Yeah, they can. It was like the first thing I checked with Exakt.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



Oh, you've already gave it away. Yeah, ok. In that case we have a chance to win:

We kill a vampire and roleblock Rarity, so she can't recruit. We can assume the last vampire will kill Rarity, so we'll end up with 3 town / 1 vamp tomorrow.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



So with that said, ##vote Gabe

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



Good Sir, what did your dreams tell you?

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




ShadowGlass posted:

Oh, you've already gave it away. Yeah, ok. In that case we have a chance to win:

We kill a vampire and roleblock Rarity, so she can't recruit. We can assume the last vampire will kill Rarity, so we'll end up with 3 town / 1 vamp tomorrow.

Fair enoygh, better town than vamps anyway. Based on Squid's roleblock being verifiable I'll ##unvote

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

We got this.

##vote ShadowGlass

I know he's scum through process of elimination. I can write up a more detailed post for those that doubt me later, but note that he was the first to "guess" there was omly 1 scum nightkill and the biggest detractor of Rarity's Chic case yesterday (because he knew it was mostly false, being a vampbuddy of Chic.)

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Unfortunately I have a sneaking suspicion that Squid is the loose vampire recruit, so it's anybody's guess if this roleblock is real and actually in town hands.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




ShadowGlass posted:

Oh, you've already gave it away. Yeah, ok. In that case we have a chance to win:

We kill a vampire and roleblock Rarity, so she can't recruit. We can assume the last vampire will kill Rarity, so we'll end up with 3 town / 1 vamp tomorrow.

Fair enoygh, better town than vamps anyway. Based on Squid's roleblock being verifiable I'll ##unvote

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



We can be fairly sure Squid, Good Sir and Meinberg were town before last night, so that only leaves Gabe as the original vampire. Any of those first three could have been recruited. Meinberg couldn't hide last night if he was telling the truth about it only working every second night. Squid was giving out the roleblock item on the same night when the recruitment happened, so if the roleblock item is in town hands that doesn't say anything about his current alignment. But the original vampire is not one of those three, so it leaves Gabe as I said.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

ShadowGlass posted:

We can be fairly sure Squid, Good Sir and Meinberg were town before last night, so that only leaves Gabe as the original vampire. Any of those first three could have been recruited. Meinberg couldn't hide last night if he was telling the truth about it only working every second night. Squid was giving out the roleblock item on the same night when the recruitment happened, so if the roleblock item is in town hands that doesn't say anything about his current alignment. But the original vampire is not one of those three, so it leaves Gabe as I said.

You realize I can use the same argument against you, right? For Rarity and the town players, it's a 50/50 shot between me and you.

I take back my guess about Squid, though. Shadow tracked Meinberg N4 to try to nail down the details on his hiding ability while his vampbuddy Chic did the nightkill. N5 he knew Meinberg would be vulnerable and recruited Meinberg for his team since we've been treating him as confirmed town.

Squid, I hope you weren't saving the scroll for Meinberg.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



Gabriel Pope posted:

We got this.

##vote ShadowGlass

I know he's scum through process of elimination. I can write up a more detailed post for those that doubt me later, but note that he was the first to "guess" there was omly 1 scum nightkill and the biggest detractor of Rarity's Chic case yesterday (because he knew it was mostly false, being a vampbuddy of Chic.)

There was no guessing involved in figuring out that there was only 1 scum nightkill. There were 2 NKs (only 1 on N3), and Opop claimed one kill each night. You don't need insider info to figure out that 2-1=1. You're really stretching things to try to fit some kind of case.
I've read back a little, and you were going on about how Opop is a Vanilla Town and lying about the claims, which was ludicrous and nobody else believed that. The only discussion about Opop was whether he was Vig or SK. My guess is you were trying to sow some confusion, so that town has less chance of figuring out the setup.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

ShadowGlass posted:

There was no guessing involved in figuring out that there was only 1 scum nightkill. There were 2 NKs (only 1 on N3), and Opop claimed one kill each night. You don't need insider info to figure out that 2-1=1. You're really stretching things to try to fit some kind of case.
I've read back a little, and you were going on about how Opop is a Vanilla Town and lying about the claims, which was ludicrous and nobody else believed that. The only discussion about Opop was whether he was Vig or SK. My guess is you were trying to sow some confusion, so that town has less chance of figuring out the setup.

Funnily enough, when Opop claimed the Asiina kill you said the exact same thing:

ShadowGlass posted:

OK, nobody is this stupid.

This is just all very random. It doesn't add up to anything sensible.

##vote Opop

When Opop continued claiming kills, you jumped straight to "Opop must be SK!"

ShadowGlass posted:

Saying you've killed scum does not make you automatically a friendly whatsoever. It feels like there is this night war going on between the two scum teams and the SK, and we're just watching from the sidelines. I still don't believe you've forgot Asiina's claim. You've seen a town power role and eliminated it. Just because you happened to hit scum since then doesn't mean you'll in the future (you have to kill everyone, right?).
The other thing to consider is that it seems for whatever reason the two scum teams only have one (or zero) kills a night. But you alone have one kill a night too. So hanging the SK would halve the number of night kills and give us a chance for a town win.
I've also noticed that when Sandwolf said we should wait with the hammer because he has information you still voted him. While Meinberg hammered (and we should look at him tomorrow), you put him at -1. Just like with Asiina, you're doing everything to keep us as uninformed as possible.

##vote Opop

ShadowGlass posted:

Yes, we are talking about Serial Killer. The problem with letting the SK because he'll kill the scum, and then we kill him, is that that plan is based on two assumptions:
- He is telling the truth and wants to kill scum. Which is probably true to some point, but he wouldn't want them all gone this early.
- He somehow magically knows who the scum are.

Claiming the kills is strange a bit. He could be looking for exactly this reaction though. Does a thing, then goes "Look at that thing! A bad guy would never do that thing! "

You really, really, really wanted Opop dead. You also didn't want people looking for cult recruits:

ShadowGlass posted:

A cult game with two scum teams seems quite unlikely. Then again, an unlimited town night vig seemed incredibly unlikely, so I loving don't know anything anymore.

"OH well how could I have known that Opop wasn't a SK like I said over and over again for the past two days, there is no way anyone could have known he would have flipped town and I am blameless for spearheading his lynch Also it's definitely not a cult game."

But if people were treating it as a cult game, you wanted to make drat sure they were looking at the other guys too, because at the time everyone thought it was scum/cult instead of cult/cult and you felt your team was being unfairly singled out:

ShadowGlass posted:

Lore speculation, but aren't werewolves also kind of infectious? I don't know Skyrim werewolves. Do you become a werewolf if one of them bites you?

So yeah,

##vote ShadowGlass

In any event, I must tip my hat to you--you and your team have played well. It's unclear if town can do any better than playing kingmaker at this point, depending on who has the roleblock. But in any case, Rarity was the first to come out and spill the beans to town (even if she only did it because she was cornered) so I'd rather let Rarity win than you.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

ShadowGlass posted:

There was no guessing involved in figuring out that there was only 1 scum nightkill.

Not when the mod told you so in your scum PM

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



You're arguing that believing Opop was SK or Vig has some bearing on a person's alignment? How does that work? Did your scum team have some extra information about Opop? Normally town and scum would have the same knowledge about such things. I don't see the connection there.
Yes, I believed he was SK, and wanted him out. And killing a claimed town PR and saying so in the thread was bizarre.

Btw, I've never said that Opop was Vanilla Town. I voted him, I obviously didn't think he was VT. I guess quoting out of context will win you the day.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



I've just realized that if you recruited Meinberg and Squid gave him the roleblock item, that's really bad for us. I assume he can't do the night kill and the roleblock at the same time, so Rarity will be able to recruit, and we'll loose. And you pre-emptive squirming after I brought up that Meinberg could have been a target makes me really worried.

ShadowGlass
Nov 13, 2012



You know, you don't need to vote the same person over and over. There is this thing when someone repeats a lie over and over and over, people will start to believe it subconsciously. I guess you could hope for a similar effect by voting me repeatedly.

I have to go sleep now. Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

ShadowGlass posted:

You're arguing that believing Opop was SK or Vig has some bearing on a person's alignment? How does that work? Did your scum team have some extra information about Opop? Normally town and scum would have the same knowledge about such things. I don't see the connection there.
Yes, I believed he was SK, and wanted him out. And killing a claimed town PR and saying so in the thread was bizarre.

Btw, I've never said that Opop was Vanilla Town. I voted him, I obviously didn't think he was VT. I guess quoting out of context will win you the day.

I've never said Opop was VT either! I just said it was a possibility (and not even a good one) because his claims just seemed ludicrous. Like you said, Opop's behavior was bizarre--it made equally little sense whether he was scum, SK, vig, or VT.

And scum did have extra knowledge about Opop because they knew from N1 that there was a non-scum nightkill. D2 everyone on town thought that there were 2 scum kills per night, as implied by the setup the game is based on. But you and the other scum all knew that Opop was legit. Maybe you honestly did think that he was an SK, but you were arguing that he was an SK before we had any proof that there was a non-scum nightkill at all, let alone that Opop was the one wielding it.

ShadowGlass posted:

I've just realized that if you recruited Meinberg and Squid gave him the roleblock item, that's really bad for us. I assume he can't do the night kill and the roleblock at the same time, so Rarity will be able to recruit, and we'll loose. And you pre-emptive squirming after I brought up that Meinberg could have been a target makes me really worried.

Yes, because you were hoping your new recruit wouldn't have been found so quickly.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

If you guys are dumb enough to vote me out after looking at ShadowGlass's incredibly sketchy post history, please do me a favor and do not roleblock Rarity or else vamps win. Assuming Squid didn't already hand them the roleblock.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



Okay I'm thoroughly confused and I'm 50/50 on Gabriel Pope and Shadowglass being the OG vampire. I know I said I'd be arguing this if I were a vampire, but really it probably is in everyone survivor's best interest (except for Rarity) for town to surrender to the vampires. If that's against the SA Mafia Code of Ethics then I'll vote probably for Shadowglass, but I don't think a town victory is even possible anymore. WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT CHIC TROMBONE AND GLOCKENAPFEL ;_;

Or maybe it is, I'm tired of crunching the numbers. I do think it's in the vampires' best interests to nightkill Rarity tonight though, because with werewolves still in the game it's a crapshoot of whoever has the nightkill on the last day, or else whoever screws up and targets the other scumteam on recruit night.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



That said, even if vampires get the scroll of paralysis, they've got every reason to use it on Rarity, what with her having the only opposed night action.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



There may have been profit in Skyrim once, but now I long for the warm sands of home, where there's no vampires but plenty of moon sugar.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Wait, maybe I missed something while I was reading the thread last night, but Epsilon Plus isn't the original vampire?

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Meinberg posted:

Wait, maybe I missed something while I was reading the thread last night, but Epsilon Plus isn't the original vampire?

Uh, look at Rarity's big post. 2 original vampires and 2 original werewolves.

I guess she could be trying to pull some kind of gambit, but it makes sense from what we know of night actions.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Gabriel Pope posted:

Uh, look at Rarity's big post. 2 original vampires and 2 original werewolves.

I guess she could be trying to pull some kind of gambit, but it makes sense from what we know of night actions.

Okay, I was definitely too tired when I first read that post. It's a bit clearer now.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Abyssal Squid posted:

Okay I'm thoroughly confused and I'm 50/50 on Gabriel Pope and Shadowglass being the OG vampire. I know I said I'd be arguing this if I were a vampire, but really it probably is in everyone survivor's best interest (except for Rarity) for town to surrender to the vampires. If that's against the SA Mafia Code of Ethics then I'll vote probably for Shadowglass, but I don't think a town victory is even possible anymore. WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT CHIC TROMBONE AND GLOCKENAPFEL ;_;

Why vampires? If we're going to play kingmaker I'd rather be on the doggies' side Besides, if we do have a way to win it relies on staking a vampire today.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


##vote Shadowglass

Dude's a vampire, I can feel it.

Or more accurately, I can see him trying to push pressure away from Glock/Chic because he was concerned that doing so would lose him one of his fellow vampires. I think he eventually voted for Glock because there was uncertainty over whether or not Chic would abscond.

Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



Gabriel Pope posted:

Why vampires? If we're going to play kingmaker I'd rather be on the doggies' side Besides, if we do have a way to win it relies on staking a vampire today.

Eh sure it's only a game, TOWN VICTORY OR ELSE I PERISH. I wanna either see Good Sir hammer or hammer myself though :{}

(that means I'm voting Shadowglass as soon as I hear which way Good Sir would prefer it)

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Please don't vote till i'm home from work people

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Ok, I'm home. Still don't vote, we need to hear from Good Sir and then there's something I want to say.

Squid, you should just say who you gave the roleblock to, it's not like they're going to be targeted for the NK tonight.

Also, if we do lynch town today then I respectfully ask the roleblocker to go for the vamps instead of me. It's totally up to you but at that point there's no chance of town winning and it would be cool if I could have a shot at this. But I'll understand if you don't, I know I'm the enemy.

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

Rarity posted:

Ok, I'm home. Still don't vote, we need to hear from Good Sir and then there's something I want to say.

Squid, you should just say who you gave the roleblock to, it's not like they're going to be targeted for the NK tonight.

Also, if we do lynch town today then I respectfully ask the roleblocker to go for the vamps instead of me. It's totally up to you but at that point there's no chance of town winning and it would be cool if I could have a shot at this. But I'll understand if you don't, I know I'm the enemy.

Personally, I agree that if we can't squeak out a town win I'd rather target vamps over wolves. Would you be willing to put your vote down early as a show of good faith? You've admitted that you get a boon for hammering scum--we still don't know what the boon is, but if it has the potential to swing the game from what would otherwise be a town victory it's not really fair to expect us to set up a hammer for you. If things don't work out with night actions and we're screwed tomorrow I'm all for tossing the game in your favor, though.

On that note, ##unvote

Straight White Shark
May 16, 2009



Fun Shoe

(Just so we're clear, I understand some people have issues trusting me and I'm not trying to steal the hammer for myself, I just don't want someone to put a 3rd vote on and have the hammer get sniped. I will put my vote back on when we've got someone ready to hammer.)

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'm a gamer!!




Gabriel Pope posted:

Personally, I agree that if we can't squeak out a town win I'd rather target vamps over wolves. Would you be willing to put your vote down early as a show of good faith? You've admitted that you get a boon for hammering scum--we still don't know what the boon is, but if it has the potential to swing the game from what would otherwise be a town victory it's not really fair to expect us to set up a hammer for you. If things don't work out with night actions and we're screwed tomorrow I'm all for tossing the game in your favor, though.

On that note, ##unvote

I'm cool with putting down a vote before anyone else but not until I've heard what Good Sir has to say, cause I want to hear from him before I decide. But yeah, you guys are totally right to keep me far from the hammer, it's not a problem.

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Abyssal Squid
Jul 23, 2003



Yeah why not, I gave the roleblock to Meinberg, I was still assuming that converting people wipes out any powers they had before, also counting on scum thinking he'd be hiding tonight so he wouldn't get killed when he used it. I didn't already have the massive instruction manual on how scum work this game either.

And yeah, wanna hear what Good Sir has to say. Guessing it's "folks I had a dream last night it was a spooky voice that went 'oh no I've said too much'"

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