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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Lyn mode, to me, despite being the very obvious tutorial, also suffers the sin of not really contibuting anything to the overall plot of FE7. And I mean... fair enough they wanted it to still be optional, so a player could start from one of the other protagonists modes. The downside is that it's boring and simple as poo poo. I mean I don't run ranked, I need to find someone who runs ranked so I can balance the ranks for my hack. But this is a mode I'd run ranked for because it's such simple poo poo otherwise.

I go pretty brain dead on Lyn Mode normally, because it's 13 chapters of... essentially, pointless filler specced like it's chapter 1 stretched out. It's just dull, there's not enough interesting going on with the plot to make you go back to play it.

On the other hand? Lyn Mode's probably not the major problem with FE7. I mean it could be fixed, it could stand to be like... 4 chapters long, It could stand to not be such a blatant hand holding tutorial, But the actual game... has a pretty major problem, I'll bring up when the LP gets there.

And yeah, this is a nice take on an FE LP. Because again, I don't play ranked, but I'm interested in seeing it, like seeing a 0% growth run.

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Thanks for the tips everyone, I'll try to use them when I post the next chapter later today.



I can understand your perspective here and I agree with you on some points, but I actually consider Lyn's story to be very good overall. One of the things I like about it is in fact how self-contained it is. There is foreshadowing of events to come (Ninian and Nils being chased by the Black Fang, internal dissension in Lycia, etc.), but Lyn's story has its own beginning, middle, and end- with its own mini-epilogue for the characters involved.

I think I might actually be interested in an FE game telling several of these sorts of mini-stories about different characters in different parts of the world having their own struggles and adventures. For one thing, they take the time to richly develop a few characters and their relationships in Lyn's story, rather than giving a tiny bit of development each to numerous characters in the longer FEs. For another, the plot and writing is tighter with fewer filler levels. Even the Mani Katti level which has ultimately no bearing on the plot of Eliwood/Hector's story is significant within Lyn's story.

True, Lyn's story is boringly easy even if one is trying to max rank it, but I find the story and characters and music and art good enough that 12 years after I got this game I don't mind playing through Lyn's story again now and then.

I would disagree (but of course I would) because I don't actually feel the story holds up very stongly, while there are some moments where the mode comes alive with personality, and it is self-contained (and like I said, it's self-contained for a purpose) While yes, the Christmas Knights, Lyn and Florina get a lot of personality, the others really are just units for the most part, with very little to them.

I still think it's too much and very dull, but I can appreciate someone who appreciates it. I just personally would use the time to tie better into the plot of the game, But like I said. FE7's big plot failure comes later on in the main story modes, Lyn mode is just a contested tutorial really, On the one hand? it's thorough, and if it was your first FE game, I'm sure it taught you everything you needed to know and has some personality to it. On the other hand if it wasn't, it had a good chance of just alienating you.

Also Back to your opening post, I dislike the Tactician. And my problem isn't that he isn't a playable character because I hate Awakening and FE12's My Unit's. I just dislike the self-insert character in Fire Emblem, I always have.


Tracula posted:

Looks like your Lyn is already tankier than the one from a previous LP done here :v: I forgot exactly what it was but didn't she get 2-3 DEF ups in all of her levels? I know there was some insanely low percent chance of that happening and it was hilarious to see it broken down each time.

On Hector Hard Mode Artix got Lyn to Level 16 or 17 Promoted without proccing a single point in defense. The dream died on the final Kishuna Gaiden.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Holy crap the Sain is amazing. I mean... typically the 'Red' Cavalier is (Though FE7 and 8 reversed the dynamics) just because they'll usually just have the skill deficiancy. And Secret books exist (Though for a Ranked Run I guess you wont be using them, same as not using Dart or promoting an assassin because those items cost a pretty penny)

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
I don't mind that happening once we get into HHM, but this is Lyn Mode, blitz that poo poo so we can get to the meat.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Rabbi Raccoon posted:

I always forget that not everyone parks Serra next to an ally who has no weapon and heal them every turn after an enemy hits them.


RBA Starblade posted:

I have to admit, I'm surprise it took into account how many times I reset the game then. Cool!

Also it's kind of fun seeing how things shape up for you and comparing with my games. Sain was one of my heavy hitters too, but I also routinely used Serra and Erk, and Lyn was always Queen poo poo of the Universe for me. Of course I never tried for max rank. Will got phased out by the Sniper later on though. You know who (and she probably won't matter).


You will not believe how much I grind the poo poo out of my medics. I never really cared about Priscilla though.

It's less that "Not everyone does it" and more "In a ranked run you can't really afford to do it." Like promoting Dart, You can, but it's 50,000 Gold so you never will. I assume Melth's aim is to have Paladin Sain by the end of Lyn Mode, which given how Sain exclusively murders everyone is a smart idea. And pretty typical. He's also aiming for the Geittz chapter of FFO because Geitz is a much more useful Pre-Promote and comes with a Killer Axe and a Steel Bow, which is worth way more money than... Wallaces Hand Axe and Silver Lance. Overall Geitz is the better unit as well. having 6 movement.

The idea for Ranked runs is to maximize the amount of funds you can save, your experience gained, and how fast you can do everything. So in short, Serra is useless when compared to Canas, who doesn't take that long to catch up to her.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

RBA Starblade posted:

Right, that's what I meant. It's just funny seeing how certain characters stack up to a max rank run. I never even considered the idea!

Doing math

The Killer Axe is 1000, and the Steel bow is 720 for a total of 1720 GP

The Silver Lance is 1200 and the Hand Axe is 300 for a total of 1500 GP. So yeah, Geitz is better for a Ranked run because he's worth more money. And since Wallace wont be promoted it's a 4 move Armor Knight versus a 6 move 'B in Axes and Bows' Warrior who can start swinging away with Hand-Axes immediatly.

And here is another thing. The Hand axe is 300 GP, the Javelin is 400. So Each Hand-Axe use is cheaper than each Javelin use, making axe-using units more cost effective for range-combat than lance users. As well the Iron Axe is 270 GP, and the cheapest Iron weapon on the market. In fact the STEEL AXE is 300 GP, Cheaper than the Iron Lances 360 gP. So on average using a Steel Axe, which is still an E Rank weapon, is far cheaper for much larger bang, than the Iron Lance. Now consider Paladins, E-Rank Axes off the bat, Sain can be swinging with his absurd strength an 11 Mt Steel Axe, in comparison to the more expensive 10 Mt Steel Lance, for more damage AND a better funds rank.

Not to mention, Marcus can also use Steel Axes from the get go, so he also conserves a ridiculous amount of Gold.

So Axes have the cheapest highest damage potential for the lowest weapon rank and the cheapest option of ranged damage.

In HHM, you'll be running Axe Paladins, Axe Heroes, and basically anyone else who can kill and save money due to being able to use the best weapon type.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
This is in fact one of the important parts of Lyn Mode. The short of it is that someone I know is working on his "Abridge FE7 and 6 and combine them into one game" and despite me stressing "This is a horrible idea" he's still going ahead with it. One of the key things helping him determine chapters was noting which chapters really couldn't be lost, this being one of them. And yeah in spite of my dismissal of lyn mode this is one chapter that sets up the future plot... even if only minorly. Mind you it's not the only way to do it, but it does its job.

Also thank you for pointing that stuff out about weapons, I of course was only going from knowledge of someone who doesn't run ranked and was just assuming.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

To be honest, I completely detest FE6, having played it thoroughly several times. The notion of combining it with FE7 is little short of blasphemous to me.

I prefer to think of FE6 as a shoddily written alternate universe fanfic about a world where Athos understood the weapon triangle, so he killed Nergal 500 years ago with Aureola instead of losing with Forblaze, so the plot of FE7 never happens.

I would claim the opposite, while bland, FE6 is perfectly straight forward and reasonable with its plot with only one or two chapters of filler. In comparison FE7 is essentially a very well structured game followed by blowing its load half way through, faffing about until it can blow the same load later. Though we can agree that combining them is bad, because neither game ties into the other. you should focus on making each game stand on its own strengths, rather than try to force them together when they wont work together.

Also I don't "Detest" FE7, it's just not the golden god people make it out to be to me. But I can respect your personal feelings. I also played 6 before 7 so yeah, different mind set.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

AstraSage posted:

Anima Tomes got their weight reduced

On the other hand, there's that "The Best Adventure Never Told" quality of its plot that only works when you don't make its connection back to FE6, and then there's the section with the Bern Royal Familiy Drama (which you can take out and it won't affect much of the plot outside needing a justification for a certain Night-style FoW Chapter) asking you to make that connection, and the reduced amount of recruitable Nomads (as a failed attempt to make you use more archers instead, which is still advisable not to despite the archers in question still being buffed compared to their FE6 analogues) and Shamans... on that note:


There's something funny in this sentence from way back: when you use the entire Elibe timeline it looks more the other way around, in that during the 20 years gap between the games Light magic has fallen off its use outside veterans of Elimine Clergy while there's a resurgence of Dark Magic practitioners in the open. (Without taking Awakening's reclassing in account, FE6 has the largest number of recruitable Dark Mages in the series)

No this is the opposite, in FE6 magic tomes are actually light enough that your units Con doesn't matter, while in FE7 and 8 they're ridiculously heavy books. I'm not sure about the Con but I never saw a problem with it in FE6.

But in short, FE7 is not a prequel to FE6, I mean it IS but it isn't because FE7 doesn't have anything to do with FE6, It is the FE2 to FE6's Shadow Dragon... literally in that case FE6 is essentially the first 'Remake' of FE1 and in my opinion does it better than FE11 did it. FE7s only claim to prequel ness is "Stars some of the same guys and one-shot NPCs from FE6, and you occassionally run into references to past FE6 things."

At the same time, FE7 doesn't preclude FE6 happening, nothing Nergal or the Fang wind up doing would prevent FE6 from happening as it does. Unless you get really upset that Hector died to Bern's army because of your particular God Hector. It is a Gaiden, a Side Story. Though another thing to respond to is that I think it was always planned, rather than released as a response to Roy's popularity.

For example, Eliwood and Hector in FE6, despite being Trial map characters only, have Affinities, and the only characters with affinities are playable characters... and those intended to be playable. So Brunya, Narcien and Zephiel are all affinityless, while Hector, Eliwood, Gale and Guinevere (The latter two who were intended to be playable and then weren't.) have affinities.

So either Hector and Eliwood were intended to be playable at some time in FE6's development or they always knew they were doing a prequel.

But here's the thing, FE7 didn't have to lead into FE6. FE6 established its lead-in well enough in game, detailing the events that lead to what would happen. FE7 takes place before any of those formative events, because it's 20 years ago. While you get to meet parents like Pent and Rebecca and Nino, the fact is they didn't have to be there, and there's no baring on either plot, besides the fact that FE7 had to be low key because history didn't record it. FE7 is fine being its own thing. And FE6 was fine being its own thing. And nothing happens in either game that says "The other game can't happen!"

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

All of this

You know I wrote up a response and then I realized I really don't want to turn this into a CIA document, and really it's derailing to the LP to keep going into it, and I'm actually really enjoying the LP and I don't want to turn this into mile long spoiler tags and arguments.

So out of respect for you I'm going to not post my response and instead follow everyone else in marveling over your God Sain.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Aerdan posted:

Start an FE megathread and talk about it there, perhaps?

There is an Fe megathread, though last time I talked about a game in there it was radiant dawn... and I wound up with my current Avatar.

Also yeah Everyone come and use the FE Megathread

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Gotta get Sain 4 levels in one chaoters, not easy, But the Priiiiiiiize

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Dire Wombat posted:

God Sain is just going to trivialize a huge chunk of the game at this point, goddamn. I guess the first five or so chapters of HHM are the hardest anyways.

He'll certainly help but for the EXP rank he'll have to still use weaker units.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:


I take your point, but I would point out that of the 3 playable dark magic users in 6, one of them is a legendary hermit who's going to kick the bucket any year now and her ancient lineage of dark mages will die with her because she let her children get killed or worse by their studies and treated her only grandson so badly that he left the family and studied anima magic instead. Another one of them is a half-dragon woman from Arcadia, and Arcadia's whole deal is that the place is like the world was 1000 years ago- you know, back when dark magic was the big thing.

And the last of them is the firsts Great Grand Nephew (Possible), whom she has taken a shine to and is passing upon her secrets of dark magic.

So her lines of Shamans will continue onwards, and... said GGN is also working in conjunction with the Half-Dragon Archadian Woman and...

Ray – Child of Darkness

Ray traveled around the world, honing his dark magic skills. Although dark magic had been all but forgotten, Ray’s efforts brought it back to people’s awareness again. He was known for being hard on both himself and others, but for some reason he was generous towards deprived children.


So in short you're not incorrect in that it's dying out even further in FE6, but by the end, not so much.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Ah, I forgot all about that character's ending, good point. I think we should generally not assume any particular support conversation happening is actually canonical though.

That's true enough, FE10 assumed all of FE9's happened, which is... pretty impossible, but it's not the first time they've said "This impossible thing between games happened" Like FE11 to 12 "All of the Gaiden people were recruited... which is impossible."

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Ryushikaze posted:


Also, earlier, you argued FE6 was the first FE1 remake... which makes me wonder what the hell you think FE3 Book 1 is.


An abrdiged retelling okay I forgot Book 1 existed...

Okay FE6 is the second remake of FE1, right down to the drat introduction credits basically being FE1s story and not necessarily lining up with Elibes lore.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

I wouldn't call FE6 a remake so much as one of many, many allegedly different FEs that actually recycle more or less the same story. You could put together a Fire Emblem mad lib filling in the blanks of the name of the evil country with wyverns that suddenly attacks after a 1000 year peace and the innocent good country they conquer and the name of the lord who fights his way through every other country to defeat the evil country and then the name of the dragon behind the evil king who he fights at the end. There are a few minor differences here and there. Like in 8 there's a demon instead of a dragon who you fight at the end. Or in 9 the guy doesn't start off as a lord, he just becomes one. Or in 13 there's a pointless filler arc in the middle. But really, waaaaay too many games in the series use more or less the same plot.

No no, there's using the same story, and then there's FE6 in comparison to FE1. Where the intro credits are the same, and the characters are pretty much 1 for 1 comparisons



And you know the intent in the design of the game was pretty much "We want to remind people of FE1"

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Dr. Buttass posted:

I am so glad Gamergate doesn't appear to have heard of this game 'cuz you just know they're gonna latch onto Florina as a representation of why wimminz is bad for gamez.

I think you would find that they love the fire emblem series a lot. Considering their origins on /v/ and /v/ loving the Fire Emblem games with glowing passion. But you know, perpetuate an incorrect stereotype, whatever floats your boat.

In fact one of the men responisble for the majority of the new tools in hacking Fire Emblem is a pretty big supporter of Gamergate simply going by the skype logs. In fact the majority of the hackers behind releasing the updated tools are pretty much are in favor of it.

Now with that out of the way, lets talk about Fire Emblem, I'm sure there's somewhere else on the site you can go to sperge about that malarky.

Florina isn't a misandrist, she's just super shy. Yes she'll kill men while not being able to speak to them, but that's not out of hate that's out of nerves, also out of all generics being men. Given that she has several supports with male characters and never shows any 'Hatred or Dislike' except for her own fear... yeah. This argument collapses into a pile of lies and pudding.

I mean you might be able to claim Androphobia. But you and I and everyone else knows what the true cause is.

Anime

Editing out my edit for the sake of the thread.

Onmi fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Feb 18, 2015

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Am I'm correct that bosses always go first though?

Thanks for that tip by the way; I hadn't noticed that the order of the status screens was the order of movement. That's a really easy way to keep track of it. At least on non-fog of war levels.

Yes, because Bosses are always loaded in first, but bosses who join mid-chapter like in the Port chapter, don't move first, but will move first for that group.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Elimine is Jesus basically. The church itself worships an otherwise unnamed 'God' and Elimine is a saint.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Sorta, but we also have Hector mention a "Father Sky" when dealing with Bramimond and there are Goddess Icons around and other confusing issues. Honestly, I don't think we know enough about the religions of Elibe for sure to comment upon them other than that Elimine is really important in the main one and that there is at least one other one practiced in some parts of Sacae which puts some level of emphasis on the importance of 'spirits'.

Father Sky is in reference to the Sacaen Religion. Which worships nature. Elimine's religion only positions her as a saint, and members of the church refer to 'God'. (Read: Jodel, Saul, Ellen, Oro.) as simply 'God'

Jodel and Dayan further have a support that has them wax philosophical about religion, also the nature of 'Supports'

http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/scripts/supports/dayan-yodel/

If you want my explanation. The original script had Hector refer to 'God' but since it's Nintendo and they generally don't like 'God' being referenced in their video games, Treehouse made the decision to have him refer to Father Sky.

Either that or he's a filthy heretic.

the FS/ME names are also brought up by... a later recruitable character in this game, in his support with Rutger. Dayan further brings it up when supporting with Sue and Shin. The one benefit of a fan translation over a localized translation is getting a chance to look at the original script (not that the original translated script for Fe6 was any good) but the direct changes in how the church refers to their deity (as God) and how the Sacaens do.

http://serenesforest.net/binding-blade/scripts/supports/rutger-karel/

I'm sort of leaving most of that unspoiled because I doesn't spoil FE7. But if you want I can drop it under tags.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

That still leaves the goddess icons a mystery though. Not to mention how the Mani Katti and its associated spirits relate to Father Sky, Mother Earth, etc. Or the precise relationship of the various magic types to these beliefs. Anima magic seems to be nature magic, and yet it's dark magic which seems to be most closely associated with the Sacaeans who venerate the natural world.

Dark Magic is the magic of Knowledge, as a later recruit brings up. It's just more associated with the Sacaen because of the Druid/Shaman name connection... Also because IntSys sucks at naming things. As for the Goddess Icon, going out of the game, it's named the Goddess Icon because it's the Goddess Icon in every game, and the Ashera icon in 9/10's localization. A similar question is raised in FE6's opening when it mentions "when the gods walked closer to man" Which was fine in... well Akaneia and Jugdral and the like because that's actually apart of those games lores. But Elibe never mentions that kind of lore.

My best explanation is that it's just a trinket, more of an artistic 'Goddess' than a literal idol of worship. I mean they're also in Magvel and I don't remember any mention of a Goddess there.

The Mani Katti however is simple, Sacaens worship the elements, they can 'hear' the sky and earth talk to them, the Mani Katti's spirits just relate to that. the spirits of nature. Nature worship usually involves believing in those sorts of spirits.

you know the bigger question, the one neither game answers that drives me batty. Elibe's name is "Elibe, the Dark Continent" Why the gently caress do they never go into that? That seems like it should be Magvels title, but no it's right there on the world map in FE6 (Well 'Ereb') They don't even have a throw away line pushing it away, it's just this overwhelming interesting idea that they never use.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
I will disagree that Hector and Uther do not get along. They go about things in different ways but Uther to me very clearly knew Hector was going to set out on his own, He just put the show on in the best way to make it clear that publicly he didn't endorse a thing he was doing... And Hector himself shows a lot of love and loyalty to his brother, as you said, his entire theme is centered around how loyal he is. By undertaking the actions himself and without the official endorsement of Ostia, he spares Ostia from any political backlash since Uther can just disown him. Uther also sends Oswin out not to stop Hector but to aid him. So he makes it avaliable to disconnect himself from his brothers actions while giving his brother the aid he will need to follow his mission.


After all he's making his preparations to leave with Matthew, who would likely have already told Uther as he's loyal to Uther. Not to mention getting a drop on the Fangs plot. On the surface it looks like the brothers dislike one another and only come to their appreciation when events happen later, but I've always seen it that they've always cared for one another. But aren't necessarily the best at expressing it in such a time. Hector also comes across to me as really scared about his brother, seeing as he's all he has left (Which puts him in a position for a later moment of comparison with another character) And his decision to want to march into Laus isn't just to aid Eliwood, but to protect Uther.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
It's nice to see Eliwood get some recognition. But it does hurt him that during localization they reduced the 3x Effective Damage multiplyer to x2. Now Granted this probably helped the final boss not feel like such a joke (You know ignoring one-shotting him with Luna)

In the end I really like Eliwood, I mean I like Hector don't get me wrong, but Hector doesn't work that well without Eliwood, his loyalty to his best friend humanizes him, because before that, Hectors just really violent and angry and you can only sustain that for so long.


Manatee Cannon posted:

Man, I disagree with almost all of your character assessments. I know ranked runs are different than a regular one where you can take your time, but still.

Also anyone that uses the term "Failiwood" to describe Eliwood should be thrown in some kind of joke prison.

Unfortunately it's the truth, Archers are horrible so all of the FE7 ones might as well go fling themselves off a pier, the fact that the game doesn't exactly have the Dracoknight spam of other games or the lowered Mt of Hand Axes OR the buffed defenses of Archers, means that they're trash.

Oswin is a Knight, and excluding defense maps, a Knight can never hold up when you have to go fast. Not to mention his coming at level 9 really hurts for Experience rank. And it's not like he has amazing growths, or that he's the games Dieck in that he can run around and Boss-Kill on the early game.

When you're playing slow and just trying to use who you want, they're all fine, but for Ranking they achieve very little.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

I pretty much agree with you on all points for once :P

What do you think of the whole x3 effective damage vs x2 question by the way? If I recall correctly, Sacred Stones had x3 effectiveness multipliers again but I don't think they've been entirely consistent since then.

In my opinion, x2 Might is probably the right multiplier for axes and lances to be extremely powerful without always being an instant kill, but it's just not good enough for swords and bows. Part of the problem of course is that most sword and bow users have lower strength than axe and lance users.

Maybe it would be better to just have a flat bonus or something. Like +10 maybe. Then we wouldn't have the constant problem that Armorslayers < Hammers no matter what the multiplier is.

Well for me, it depends. the x3 multiplyer completely destroys FE6's end-game. To the point where 1/1 Roy with the Sword of Seals three-shots the final boss. And I know the games are designed to prevent you from being put into a failure state (This is why the powerful God unit joins at the very end of the game each time) but, it's clearly not a final boss at that point, it's an exercise in just running through the motions. I mean I got an ASM bit done that allows me to change different effectiveness types not just for weapons, but on the units they affect. So the SoS might be 3x against the usual end-game foes but only 1.5x versus the final boss. Allowing the final boss to be percieved as a threat still, while letting the sword maintain its plot status as powerful versus unique foes.

So I think you're correct, x2 is fine for Lances and Axes, but Swords and Bows really need the x3. Specifically because in the latter case, they only have the one shot per turn, it might as well be a really powerful shot. And to me the problem with Armorslayer>Hammer is the Armorslayer has 80 Hit, the Hammer has 55 hit. a 4 Mt difference and WTA on the armored units is not nearly enough to offset the 25 hit difference on a unit who naturally has low skill OR is being weighed down by the 15 Wt brick.

There is 1 unit unpromoted who can use the Hammer with no speed loss, now granted it's a pretty miniscule loss given the high con, but in comparison Marcus comes able to use the Armorslayer with no loss... not that you should use Marcus to do it but it's just observations on the weapon. The Hammer's pretty much is the worse weapon in pretty much every aspect. Users, Weight, Hit. The Hammer is cheaper and strronger and that's it.

But Eliwoods Rapier would be much better as a x3 Effective slayer, especially given the stats behind it at the beginning.

The flat bonus could work, but it really reduces bows effectiveness versus fliers. Another example of the power of the x3 Multiplyer is in Radiant Dawn, and Thani. Micaiah can be the worst unit in the world and that tome will still can-open every armor and horse from the moment she gets it. Crossbows in the same vein, attaching Beastfoe to a Crossbow user or against flyers, the Crossbow is a deadly weapon but it's near useless against humanoid units.

Wonderful for Flurry/Disarming to allow you to STEAL EVERYTHING with Shinon and Heather. God RD made me such a Klepto...

It's not really a situation that I think can be given a flat "Okay all weapons do X" You have to balance each multiplyer individually, which is more work, but makes for a better balance.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Regarding armorslayer vs hammer, imo you're underrating the importance of the weapon triangle in this case.

Oh right, poo poo I forgot the calculations in Blazing Sword are different to Binding Blade.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Oh man, that reminds me of the time my Leonardo got a perfect level up and then Fiona got all of her horses killed.



gently caress you Fiona, Leonardo was defying all logic and turning out really well...

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Boies is a master of the ancient art of running backwards while laughing. Considering that the portraits in this game are quite capable of switching facing direction, I don’t know why so many enemies run away backwards like that after taunting you, but I still find it looks funny 12 years later.

Actually it's not possible. The way eventing works for portraits is that you load a portrait on one of the side, and then you can have said portrait move. So if I loaded Hector on the left he would face towards the right, I could then have him run to the right and then reload his portrait to the right, which would turn him around. But I could not have him turn around while on the left. That's not how the commands work.

Onmi fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Feb 20, 2015

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Tae posted:

I could've sworn the DS games also did same-turn reinforcements.

On the higher difficulties. You can do it in any game by loading the enemy reinforcements on the player phase or the beginning of the Enemy Phase.

Onmi fucked around with this message at 04:55 on Feb 21, 2015

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

One thing that particularly annoys me about it is how they're flagrantly using it as a substitute for real difficulty by making it happen only on the higher difficulty settings.

Eh, it's a reminder to keep your wits about you. If you're experienced enough in Fire Emblem you're experienced enough to expect this. Ontop of this, there's rarely a point where rear end in a top hat Reinforcements are spawned without an actual warning. So you know reinforcements are coming, usually the game will even tell you from where, such as "There's rumblings on the lower floor" or "The southern gate."

So unless you maliciously skip all dialog, it's really the fault of the player for getting ganked by those particular groups. You might as well compare it to Fog of War, you suffer the rules of it that your opponent do not.

Now granted I loving hate FoW so I wouldn't argue that point. Now I agree that relying upon it solely for "Increased Difficulty" is a very artificial way to handle a difficulty curve, but it's rarely the sole change, and it's always consistent.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
I just want a drat twin-system like SRWL does it, because then it means the next time they make a game with 70+ loving units more than 15 of them will leave the drat bench!

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Prism posted:

I haven't played through FE6; what's the one thing?

you need to get all 7 gaidens to get the final 3 chapters.

It's not nearly as hard as he pointed out except the fact they don't tell you that you have a time limit in most cases. Because most of the Gaidens require finishing a chapter in a certain time.

Also Chapter 14, but Chapter 14 was IntSys putting every evil thing they had into one chapter, the only thing missing was Berserk and Bolting/Purge.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

It's worse than that. First you had to pretty much have no one die because nearly everyone was required either directly or indirectly for at least one sidequest. Granted I always restart for any deaths, but not everyone does. Second, you had to complete all of those 7 chapters within time limits. With no indication that there was a time limit until it ran out or that that chapter was even a particularly important one. And certainly no indication that by missing any of those sidequest chapters at any point, you had forever lost the ability to actually complete the game.

You had to never let a legendary weapon break, with no indication that that was actually important. In every other FE title I can think of, there's no particular problem if you break any of the legendary weapons. Using your last 1 charge of Durandal on a manakete for an instant kill or something meant that maybe 10 chapters later all your work was for nothing and you couldn't complete the game.

14 isn't that bad compared to 16. 16 was moderately tricky but the real problem was Douglas, an enemy miniboss who would charge at your forces. He could not be recruited or persuaded to stop in any way and would relentlessly attack and was kinda totally one of the villains of the story. But if you killed him, you couldn't get the gaiden chapter. For no reason ever explained. And with no warning that you had missed something. Let alone that the something you missed meant that 5 chapters later you would get the bad ending and be unable to actually play the final chapters of the game and actually resolve the story.

Or you could just trap him with Lalul/Elphin and never deal with him.



Seriously Douglas was a cake walk. Also "Pretty much no one die" is a pretty absurd lie. Sophia, Lilina, Zealot, Juno, Dayan, Sue, Shin, Elphin, Miledy and Zeiss. And Douglas. So 9. 9 Characters in a game with 50.

2 of which join on the required chapter, 1 of which you may never get, 1 you'll likely never use, and two/three completely not required unless you're locked on that route, and if Sue/Shin dies you're not getting to Sacae.

So in 1 playthrough you need to protect Sophia, Lilina, Douglas, Miledy and Zeiss at minimum. + 2/3 depending on route. Neither of whom are likely to be a problem.

You really tend to go berserk at FE6 stuff, But really except the Divine Weapons breaking (And really there's never enough Manaketes to justify using them when you can smack them with Magic) This is no trouble what so ever, and Douglas is piss easy to handle (Sleep Staffs, Lalum/Elphin, Warp, Tanking him while unequipped because the FE AI is stupid, just outrunning him because he has 5 move)

And no you didn't have to complete all 7 in time limits, most yes, but not all, followed by the time limits being absurdly leniant in most cases.

I'm honestly shocked that the things that troubled you in 6 DID trouble you, because they're some of the most basic things in my mind, None of them come close to getting the Gaiden coming in this playthrough, or bullshit like Star Shards and Xavier.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Sorites posted:

If I'm standing still in a field doing nothing, holding an axe, and an enemy runs right past me, you have to assume I'll do something.

It essentially works like an AoO in a P&P game, if an enemy enters your attack range it's fine, if they move THROUGH it then you get the AoO. It could work, would be interesting and pretty much change playstyles.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Manatee Cannon posted:

One range overwatch is a dumb idea.

Manatee, just a question. You ever played D&D or a tabletop RPG like that? because "Range 1 Overwatch" has been a thing in existence for a while now.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

So I've had an inordinate amount of trouble with False Friends because of the enemy retreating. I keep taking Erik down on turn 5 and having nothing but easy mop up to do but then something happens like Oswin missing an injured pegasus knight he has 90% odds to hit and then the pegasus knight will of course spend 3 turns flying away to its fortress, 4 healing, and 3 more coming back. Which obviously would explode my tactics ranking, so I have to restart. The funny thing is I know all about their tendency to do that and I've been taking every countermeasure I can and still actually beat Erik in time to stop further reinforcements, but they just keep getting extremely lucky and getting their chance to escape.

If I could mention something I don't like about HHM? it's the usually the FE series, and FE7 in particular are good about gameplay->story, so you don't really get a deployment of enemy units that don't make sense... you know outside the Church of the Black Fang, but that's an outlier. I kinda dislike HHM because it throws around a bunch of units more for challenge sake than necessarily fitting with the story. Which... I am mostly okay with, because it's HM exclusive and you know what? it's a better way of introducing difficulty than just pumping up the regular units


quote:

I play D&D a lot and I have to say that I find D&D's attack of opportunity system to be a bit problematic. There are just too many ways to avoid AoOs because 1) you're only penalized for moving out of a threatened square and 2) everyone's reach is just 1 and 3) there are at least 4 kinds of movement (5-foot steps, withdraw, tumbling, and any kind of teleportation) that don't provoke the attack in the first place. Things are a lot more interesting and a lot more tactical when people actually use weapons like polearms that give you a longer reach, but since those are generally inferior to greatswords you don't see many of them.

So all in all I I might actually argue that range 1 overwatch doesn't necessarily add a ton to a game, at least in a system like D&D. Range 2 can be a lot more interesting.

I'm not really sure how well either would work in Fire Emblem though. On the one hand, it would severely penalize the enemy for their absurd habit of running alone right through a gauntlet of your men into the middle of your formation to attack your healer. And that would be nice. On the other hand, this series encourages defensive play enough as it is.

I run a campaign, and pretty much exclusively make FE maps for the gameplay to take place on which can be interesting but I think it could benefit the series, even slight things like Flanking could introduce a bit more strategy and a bit more danger to the FE playstyle, but then again, I would say FE benefits from simplistic mechanics, Because it COULD give you an option to Attack, Defend, Avoid whenever you're attacked like SRW does, but I think it fits FE better to not have those systems in comparison. Much less of a gamble, but if you had those systems, the whole gameplay changes.


quote:

Correction. Douglas was a cake walk if and only if you knew you needed to keep him alive. There is no indication that keeping him alive unlocks the sidequest. Nor is there much of an explanation after the fact. He looks like a (possibly recruitable) enemy miniboss. He acts like a (possibly recruitable) enemy miniboss. And after realizing no one will recruit him, the smart player who has not read a guide that explains that you must let him live will decide he's actually just a miniboss and will kill him. So no, you would not wall him off with Lalum as a first time player. Or sleep staff him. Or just keep him chasing after someone he can't catch. You'd kill him, because any of those things is pointless or a bad idea unless you know that you need him to live.

I will concede that no one in the game flat out tells you to keep Douglas alive, I will also point out that you are warned. Since Jodel informs you at the beginning of the map to not do any unneccisary killings, Douglas himself comments that he's only doing this until Prince Mildain returns. I will not say that it is the most perfect way of explaining it (Jodel could have been clearer) but that It's not necessarily the easiest thing to say without breaking the fourth wall "Don't kill Douglas and capture the throne."

I will refute that "There's no way you know that this could unlock a Gaiden" as so far, every 'Capital' battle in FE6 has lead to a Gaiden, so you've had 3 other examples of this maximum to this point. So it's reasonable for a player not looking at a guide to go "Huh, I should probably not kill that guy who seems recruitable, and, who when you talk to with Lalum/Elphin, says that he cannot join you while the king is in danger" Which, and this might just be me, says "I should go capture the throne instead of killing this guy." So I refute your claim that "They'd have no idea what to do" Because the game gives you hints about what you're meant to do. In your favor however, the game does not flat out tie-in to the idea that you will get to the Gaiden by not killing Douglas. Nor does it give a reason why killing Douglas precludes you from getting the Gaiden. At this point the game is relying on your pattern recognition, and if you failed to save Lilina, didn't capture the throne in the Western Isles in time, and got Sophia killed in Nabata (Which is a ridiculously easy task) You wouldn't know there were Gaidens to begin with.

So in short, I refute your claim that "The smart player would decide he's actually a miniboss and kill him" because he states to Lalum that he's only on your side because the King is being held by Bern (And more clearly with Elphin, Elphin will say that Roy CAN do something about this) But I do not refute your claim that it's not 100% clear or that it's clear that killing him would miss you out on a gaiden. Because it's not 100% clear what you have to do, and it's not clear that he's the required unit to get to the Gaiden.

quote:

I might as well argue that 19xx is a cakewalk to unlock. Afterall, all you have to do is beat Lundgren and then have Nils dance repeatedly on chapter 10 until he gets to level 7!

But in neither case is there any indication you should do that, so they're both stupid requirements.

I will not argue against that, I would also not argue that the Desert chapter's requirement is also really stupid.

quote:

What does failing to meet these requirements mean? In the case of 19xx, it means you miss one line of dialogue in the final chapter as well as access to 32x- a chapter on which nothing much happens except killing Kishuna once again. In the case of Douglas- or any of the many, many other requirements- it means you miss the entire last 3 chapters of the game and any closure or satisfying ending. The protagonists just abruptly stop after killing the enemy king and go home, not even trying to catch the dragon that's been causing them trouble or find out what was even going on. So you can argue that both of those sidequest requirements are equally bad, but don't claim that the results of not getting the sidequests are equivalent at all.

Both are cases of bad game design, but one ruins the ending whereas the other... doesn't really affect much.

To argue in slight jest, Missing the Divine Weapons means you finish FE6 on the rather excellent "Neverending Dream" rather than the quite awful actual final chapter. So, in jest, I would argue it's Win-win to miss the Gaidens! But you're correct, missing the Sidequests in FE6 have much larger reprecussions than in FE7,

quote:

And at no time did I come remotely close to 'going berserk' at FE6 stuff. That was as much a distortion and an exaggeration as I admit my claim that most FE6 characters could not be allowed to die was, now that I went back through and checked each chapter requirement again.

You're correct, I was out of line for saying that, and for saying that it was an 'Absurd lie' which holds a much more negative conoctation than the truth, which was you just didn't remember correctly.


quote:

In my opinion, you're rather sensitive about criticism of FE6 and seem to get upset about it too easily. We all have games we like and games we don't like and our reasons for our opinions. I think FE7 is wonderful. I think FE6 is very bad. And I think FE13 is an abomination. But it doesn't upset me when people criticize FE7 or when people praise FE13. I'll disagree with them and give my reasons why, but I don't perceive them as being 'berserk' about it or characterize their mistakes as 'absurd lies'.

I think I'm very poor at expressing it. FE6 has a lot wrong with it, if it didn't, I wouldn't have spent the past 5 years remaking it when the whole project turned out as horrible as it did to get rolling. I just feel that we've very different experiences with the game and that what I felt was wrong with it, doesn't match up with what you felt was wrong with it. Partially anyway.

E.G. I am perfectly fine with Gaidens precluding you from the ending (Even though I changed that for something else because storywise it made no sense that you needed the Divine Weapons to proceed, when the location is not particularly hidden) you are not. I felt that in 90% of cases the Gaidens are properly foreshadowed in regards to what you need to unlock them, you don't. And that's not wrong, we just have very different opinions.

In regards to you C16 was more bullshit than C14, and that I couldn't parse, because outside of 11A, C14 is the most bullshit chapter in the game in my own experiences, with everything stacked against the players and 100 things to do on a map where so much can go wrong so quickly. Where as C16 has one problem you're likely to not be able to hit your first time though.

So I'm sorry if it came across as righteous fury because you were attacking a favoured game of mine. While I immensly enjoy it, it's very flawed, and a lot could be done to fix it. It's just I couldn't parse the reasons you found it bullshit with my own experiences. And we have opposing viewpoints.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Tae posted:

He's making a whole new Fire Emblem game using the GBA engine.

Well I meant the former in that I run a pathfinder campaign and use GBAFE maps for the actual ground, since they're easy enough to create with the Map Creator.


Melth posted:

I think that's a pretty good assessment. I think another facet is the question of punishment for doing badly vs reward for doing well. In FE7 the sidequests are really sidequests in that you can skip every single one of them if you want to without affecting much. You learn less about the villain's background and some other such things, but the game is completable and not a great deal changes. So it's reasonable to think of unlocking them as a reward for doing well. E.g. you saved some green units, so now you get to do this bonus level where you can acquire more treasure and secret units!

If the FE6 'sidequests' worked like that, I would have much less of a problem with them. It strikes me as entirely appropriate to put the legendary weapons on secret levels as a special reward for completing the previous level fast or keeping Douglas alive or whatever, but to still allow the player to access the true ending if they choose to skip all of them. That would make those secret levels a reward for playing well. The reason I don't like them is that missing even a single one of them means you actually lose the game- possibly like 16 chapters later- and don't even know it. So they're a case of punishment for doing badly which makes the game waaay too close to impossible to complete for people who haven't read a guide on it or the like.


I've got to be honest, I'm still not sure exactly what it is that you hate about 14. I thought that chapter was pretty solid (and I considered 11A to be possibly the best level in FE6). Each of them had one different aspect I didn't much like (Fog of war on 14 and the giant army led by a miniboss that appear as reinforcements and then spawnmove on 11A), but I didn't find either of those to be a huge problem in the end because I've got a lot of experience dealing with fog of war and because you're (sort of) warned that reinforcements are coming.

As a general rule, I greatly enjoy chapters that have a ton of optional objectives to complete (loads of treasure chests with thieves going for them, scattered villages that are hard to get to, tricky to recruit characters, valuable items to steal, etc.) and 11 was pretty much the king of that. Imo concocting a strategy to 1) save every single village, 2) recruit Klein, 3) recruit Shanna, 4) Keep all of Klein's stupid units alive, 5) Keep all of Shanna's units alive, 6) recruit Echidna without her stealing any XP or ruining one of your other objectives, 7) do some shopping, and 8) complete the level quickly was one of the most fun challenges in the game. That was a level where the difficulty was real difficulty: it was genuinely tricky to come up with a strategy that would do all of that.

Similarly, my favorite chapters of FE7 are probably Dragon's Gate and Battle Before Dawn. And to a lesser extent Whereabouts Unknown and The Port of Badon. But I suppose I'll be talking about why I love all of those soon enough.

Oh, I should clarify, my problem with 11a and 14 isn't that they're bad (I'm leaving them pretty much as-is minus adding Pacifist Routines for Klein and Tate so they don't kill Their Sister/Boss like a pack of idiots. Oh Fire Emblem AI...) No, my problem with 11A and 14 is that they're evil. They are evil, evil, maps and the fact that in 11A a run may have to restart because the AI decided Klein or Tate wasn't moving that turn? That pisses me off. You getting blindsided by a Dracolord in the Fog with a silver lance after Sophia got hit with a sleep staff? Well there goes THAT run. Douglas is annoyingly vague but really simple to handle once you know how and what you're supposed to do. 11A and 14 are hard chapters which you can still lose if you're going for 100% on them even after doing them 100 times in the past.

And, yeah, ultimately what you said about the Gaidens is the reason I've changed it from how it was in the vanilla game. I'm probably a lot easier on "You don't get the true ending" in 6 because it's not new to the series, and in comparison, the Star Shards were way worse about it


Nihilarian posted:

You mean Fire Emblem: Immortal Sword? Last I heard it was still being worked on.

It is. Honestly once MOD, 7x, AE and EN are all properly finished, it's gonna be fun to do the Romhack Boogaloo 2.0

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Melth posted:

Interesting. I actually developed a tabletop game system to adapt the FE GBA series into something you can play with a roleplaying group. Perhaps you'd like it.



Edit: I believe I created a table of contents in the first post of this thread to link you to any chapter of the game. However, I don't know if I did that the right way. If you happen to notice a problem, tell me and I'll try to fix it.

For some reason they're linking me to the top of each page.

Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.
Wait people assumed that Erik was doing anything but bullshitting? Or misunderstanding the situation? That's... odd.

Regardless, I agree that this is the better version of Chapter 4 for 1 reason. No Rutger. If FE6 was your first game (as it was for me) then you knew Rutger was coming, but at Chapter 4 you didn't necessarily know reinforcements were coming as they were, or that they were going to move when they spawned, or even what a drat Myrmidon is (That being the game to debut the Swordfighter Split didn't help)

It also didn't help because it necessitates going slower when most of the battle would be happening in the middle of the map, AKA prime Rutget loving distance.

It's one of those things that yeah they tell you, but on your first time through your still can't be prepared for.

So yeah, I'd say this version of the map is much better, because it maintains the same type of progression and focus (Village at the top and bottom, two units to recruit) without the overhanging grim reaper of run enders that is Rutger.


Erik is a character I feel that was doomed by his FE6 appearance, but they still could have done something interesting with and failed to. I feel like having him be a traitor (again) just sort of makes him really lame, and really he only survives here to go on to betray everyone 20 years later. And one could have set him up as having been a Loyal or even pleasent person who decided to do that in FE6 because of what happened to his father and family name. But no, he's just a traitorous dick because he's a traitorous dick 20 years later.

I guess they don't want to make you feel retroactively bad for killing him.

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Onmi
Jul 12, 2013

If someone says it one more time I'm having Florina show up as a corpse. I'm not even kidding, I was pissed off with people doing that shit back in 2010, and I'm not dealing with it now in 2016.

Smiling Knight posted:

I think Tate and Klein's soldiers in 6 11a turn from red to green. So may be check out the code on those guys?

Yeah

MUS2 0x33 - Set the Music to the Recruit Music
TEX1 0x957 - Display the text of Roy recruiting Klein (You will never do this because Clarine is 100% better for the job)
REMA - Remove text bubbles
CUSI 0xF 0x0 - Change Klein's alignment to Blue
CUSI 0xD8 0x40 - Change Klein's Troops (All of them share the same character slot) to NPC
CHAI 0xD8 [0x6,0xC,0x0,0x0] - Change Klein's Troops AI to 'Escape'
ENUF 0xD - Make the ID unavailable (so Roy can't talk to Klein again)
MURE - Return the music to how it was before
ENDA - End Event

0x47 is supposedly the NPC faction code in FE7. But honestly, given some issues we've had with Eventing, I'd be shocked if it wasn't something else

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