|
nine-gear crow posted:They were Wanzers in all but name in AC5. I always just took for granted that 4/fA was the original Great Destruction, what with Kojima Particles just loving everything over, and since it mentions underground shelters alongside the flying cities. And I doubt NEXTs were recoverable, so the old types just became the standard ACs in the rest of the games. Plus the whole clearing the defense satellites thing always made me think of the mission from AC1, and sets up the mars expedition that led to AC2.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 17:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 00:56 |
|
|
To be clear as far as the whole timeline is concerned, my questions regarding canon of the AC games only really apply to the PS1 games. The order of events in all future games are made very clear to be following after each other, with the exception of when the universe actually reboots itself to facilitate a new timeline, along with certain side games like Formula Front and Nine Breaker which are like what if situations. That, and there's info from an art book, the Armored Core 10 Works Complete File that outright states that the games take place in different continuities (The start of the franchise up through Another Age being the first and AC3 through LR being the second). And then of course there's 4 and 5 which for people who played all the way through Verdict Day's campaign will find there's actually a connecting thread between those four games that makes the total number of continuities 3 instead of 4. That said though, this discussion and me bringing up the 10 Works Complete File reminded me I really need to get my hands on a copy of that. If I can find a place that won't price gauge me into oblivion. nine-gear crow posted:They were Wanzers in all but name in AC5.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 17:39
|
|
|
Well, to be fair to Nine Breaker, that one is explicitly a training thing to prepare Ravens for the poo poo that goes down in LR, so that one's fine. Formula Front though, who knows. At least it's the only game that doesn't appear to be post-apocalyptic (or has an apocalypse going on), so that's something. I could never get into AC5 though. I loved some of the weapons, but overall the game never clicked with me. It just felt a bit too slow for me, and the online focus really soured me. Great music and remixes though.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 17:46
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:Well, to be fair to Nine Breaker No one should be fair to Nine Breaker. Nine Breaker was a piece of poo poo. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 18:10
|
|
|
I liked Nine Breaker's mission gimmick, it was fun trying to beat my scores.  Also the randomized arena was fun. Edit: It was a pretty good warm-up for LR cutting me off at the knees from the start and laughing the whole time. ACES CURE PLANES fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 18:11
|
|
|
I too am partial to Nine Breaker, partly because of the audacity that From Soft would actually release a training mode as a full priced game, but also that taking it seriously does actually teach you some things about piloting ACs, even after years of playing the other games and settling into your own ways. Plus, Origin did the same thing with one of their own franchises in the form of Wing Commander Academy, and just taking a look at the user reviews for that game on GOG show that there's quite a bit of similarities in reception between that and Nine Breaker. Though I'll still put it above 2 and Another Age just because Nine Breaker is still based off a generation that was better thought out and designed than 2 was. ACES CURE PLANES posted:Also the randomized arena was fun.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 18:25
|
|
|
I can sort of forgive Nine Breaker for being what it is because it was patently clear that it was only released as a stopgap by From because Last Raven was taking longer than they'd expected it would, so they threw NB together last minute to not miss their yearly release streak.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 18:38
|
|
|
Yeah, regardless of your feelings about Nine Breaker (and its goodness  ), they broke the bank on Last Raven. For all that it had in there, it was a great last hurrah for the classic style. All the references and stuff you could want, branching paths, and a cinderblock to the jaw difficulty-wise. But still fun, not like AC2:AA's last missions. gently caress AC2:AA.Shocked that Arc doesn't like AC2 though. I thought everyone liked AC2.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
AC2's story is the best aspect of it, especially Leos Klein, but the issues I have with the game comes from it being rushed to reach the PS2 launch window. Gameplay feels noticeably more sluggish than gen 1 Armored Core, and the framerate cannot handle very many missiles on screen at all. Combine that with the heat gauge, and the balancing behind all the weapons leads to missiles being extremely powerful and also game crippling due to the aforementioned framerate. It's an incredibly unbalanced game that people fondly remember due to it coming out that early on in the PS2's life cycle and many early adopters of the system happened to get it. It's better than Evergrace or Eternal Ring, two other launch window PS2 games, and I still get some fun playing AC2 and AA on occasion but out of the classic series in terms of mechanics and tech, Generation 2 is the weakest of the three. Anyway, recording of the fourth EX Arena part went way, WAY smoother than the last one did, so you can expect that update to go up in the next few days. Doing my best to push myself to grand finale in a timely manner.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 19:26
|
|
|
ArclightBorealis posted:Anyway, recording of the fourth EX Arena part went way, WAY smoother than the last one did, so you can expect that update to go up in the next few days. Doing my best to push myself to grand finale in a timely manner.  While I know a lot about Armored Core, I'm significantly better at the mechanics behind choosing the right parts and how to use them effectively than I am at the overarching "canon" of the universe, but according to unreliable sources, there's a definitive link between 1st and 2nd generation Armored Core. I only know what I heard, something to the extent that Leos Kline is the pilot you are apparently controlling in Master of Arena. Or something. I don't really know how true any of it is. But, because the plot is so mired in mystery, I've come up with my own explanation that made perfect sense in my head. I literally cannot see these games "working" from a storytelling angle any other way than this. The entire first generation is a single story told completely out of order. The story starts when you become a Raven, and you do some missions, but before making any real progress, the start of Master of Arena happens, setting up your motivations for becoming a Raven in the first place. You do a little here, but before you get a sponsorship from Progtech, you bounce back to the first game and do many more missions. Something you'll notice is that both mega-corporations still exist during MoA, so, somewhere in the middle of the Chrome/Murakumo conflict, you end up bouncing back to MoA missions, get your sponsor, and go for a little longer. But then, you get contacted directly by Sumika and accept her contract, as you're a mercenary first, and likely don't realize you're doing any wrong. So pretty much all of Project Phantasma happens in a big chunk, likely putting a wrench in a certain someone's plans unknowingly. Since you're sponsored now, you also decide to start making a name for yourself in the Arena, improving your skill and building a reputation with other Ravens. A few more MoA missions here, and you accept a contract directly from Progtech, for which Lana Nielsen gives you a strongly-worded warning not to accept missions directly, since doing so basically caused all of PP, and you'd just done so again with Progtech. So you go back to Nest-sponsored missions, continue through the Chrome/Murakumo conflict, kill Struggle, Imminent Storm, both corporations, and finally mopping up their remnants when Progtech offers another contracted mission. This leads to the Nest cutting off your support, and leads Elan Cubis to look into the matter more deeply...which brings us to now. As far as this delusion is considered, you haven't yet killed Hustler One (twice) or destroyed the AI core controlling the Ravens' Nest. But it is no secret that events are coming to a head. The rest is spoilers, and it paves the way for Armored Core 2 to happen. Thinking about it like this makes me think From Software was working on one massive game, but either due to technical, financial, or developmental constraints, they couldn't slap it all into one game, so they split the remaining content into two "expansions". A Pleasant Hug fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Aug 26, 2015 |
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
EX Part 4: Caterpillar Here we are, time for the fourth AC leg type to have its time in the spotlight with the Caterpillar arena ladder. Otherwise known as tank treads, these battles will be slow moving in terms of how much ACs can get around. But the firepower is big, and will make most of these fights very decisive if you're outfitted with the hardest hitting cannons you got. Let's get this out of the way and earn our last leg part.            We've got our weapons set. Gatling arm weapons with an energy based slug gun on the right shoulder. Also because the question was asked earlier in the thread, the Raven descriptions in the leg arenas do not change if you have the incorrect legs equipped. The only thing it changes is whether or not that category is Reference Only and cannot participate when it's active.  Reward: 10000 C Artemis has some powerful vertical missiles equipped so naturally I fought him on the one stage where that tool of his would be rendered completely ineffective. Nothing really notable about him outside of that.  And thus we are set on the road to the top of the ladder.  Reward: 12000 C Warren's main strategy is to use his tank tread's booster jets and use them to fly up and circle around you while firing his AC's arm cannons. When using tank treads I find it rarely worth ever using the jets, so him using them to get around and behind is somewhat annoying. Of course, you just gotta re position yourself just right and fire away to take him down quick, and there's no problem then.  Reward: 15000 C As his description shows, DOUBLE57 is indeed a rare sight as all he uses is a flamethrower, a close range weapon that's incredibly easy to avoid especially in this category, with tons of ammo to spare. Just stay back and pump the poor bastard with lead/explosives/lasers/what have you till he's not moving anymore.  Reward: 19000 C This first real tough opponent in this category due to his accurate aim with an energy weapon. And it hurts when it connects. Naturally I retaliate by equipping on me even more powerful energy weapons and kick his rear end to the side.  Reward: 23000 C Hound is similar to Warren in that he loves to hover around while hitting you with his weapon of choice, in this case machine gun weapon arms that rarely lose track of you. Not hard to take down with a similar loadout like the last match. More interestingly, this AC is another veteran from the first game, but unlike Lynx Minx who changed her AC's name from Pretty Kitty to Kitten, this AC pilot changed his name from Wolf in AC1 to Hound in Master of Arena. Despite the change in name, his AC design and philosophy behind always using a heavily armed AC has remained between games.  We're halfway through this category but the biggest challenge yet is coming up next.  Reward: 32000 C I probably spent a good 10 tries or so on this guy, with each one rearranging my weapon loadout just slightly to find the right combination that I can defeat him before he whips out the back cannons. He starts the match staying far back taking small shots at you with his right arm weapon, but after a point, he switches to the laser cannon on his right shoulder, my second weapon of choice during missions, and starts to deal considerable damage. And it's tough to avoid, because if it isn't from direct hits it's splash damage. I was incredibly fortunate to delay him long enough from using them until he reached 3K AP remaining. It's less about him using his arm weapon until it runs out and more switching to the big guns when a certain amount of time has passed, possibly determined by health loss as I've had him fire those laser cannon shots at me well before what you saw in the video. Regardless, falling back on a rapid fire solid weapon like the chain gun as you wait for energy to recharge is a smart strategy to maintain constant pressure in matches like this. If you're paying attention and actually hitting them, that is.  Reward: 45000 C Arguably a bigger threat than Energy Shell, as his choice in missiles for weapons makes this fight very unforgiving as tank tread ACs aren't really built for ease of dodging their trajectories. So long as you deal enough damage to him on your end, he's ultimately not as damaging to you as Energy Shell. Just more of a nuisance. Also, I really love the near exact descriptions between Powder Magazine and Energy Shell. These two have very clear philosophies that are not compatible with each other.  Reward: 57000 C When you got a match where an AC won't stop shooting at you until it runs dry, you got two options. Successfully dodge its shots and leave 'em empty, or just deal more damage in return. And since tank tread ACs are incredibly low in mobility I went with option 2 and kept up in the damage race to finish him off.  We're gearing up for the final fight in this category, though it's not something that is quite on the same level as the #1 rank ACs in other categories.  Reward: 140000 C There are two distinguishing parts about this fight. One is Tread's bio, in which it states that he was a soldier during the Great Destruction. For lore reasons, this brings up questions about the amount of time that has passed since that event and how old Tread would actually have to be, but this update doesn't really have much room to facilitate the speculation. The second is his AC, Commander, which is the first AC you fight that has the maximum possible amount of AP you can have, set at 9999. And that's it. He hops around a lot and uses a bazooka as his primary weapon, but there's nothing that I haven't used in the last few fights that can't make mincemeat out of him. Just take his hits, while melting his armor with lasers, and filling it with some chain gun bullets as you wait for your energy to recharge. Kind of a pushover compared to other top ranked ACs on this disc like Ernst or Dynamite. Now those made you fight like you wanted to win.  But whatever, we're now at the top! We've cleared all leg specific arena categories on the second disc of the game.  And in return we're rewarded with the final new leg part featured in Master of Arena.  A rather interesting shape for tank treads, the LC-HTP-H5 is described as an "enhanced hover tank with increased speed and maneuverability." If you look at another tank tread part in the game, the LC-HTP-AAA, you'll find this model is actually built off of that and improves it in a lot of areas. It has better AP, higher shell and energy defenses (made possible by the AAA getting a stat decrease after Project Phantasma), significantly higher maximum weight, and better speed. The one thing I can say is that while it calls this a "hover tank" as far as I can tell this part does not have the AC hover above the ground. The speed may be greater than other tank treads but it is still slower than a lot of the other leg parts, and hover legs would not be a thing until Armored Core 2 where their application and functionality was way different compared to tank treads. And with all this leg talk, here's the final fourth of Seiren's big effort post detailing the specifics behind each leg type in the original Armored Core games. quote:Caterpillar, Tank, "Tread" legs  Anyway, I've not shown the system screen in a while so we can check our Arena reports. With only four out of eight arena ladders completed, you'd think we would have knocked out a significant portion of the disc right? Well, we got about 2/3s left to go. The last four are much more varied, some bigger than others, and it's only gonna be tougher from here on out. Hell, we actually unlocked the fifth arena category upon beating the first four, but I'm gonna hold off on doing it until after the first credits sequence. The timing will make more sense there.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2015 03:27
|
|
|
Part 9: The Plot Deepens Only six guys left in the area. We're definitely getting closer to the top, so we'll keep going until something forces us to stop. Main Arena Ranks #6 - 4     Arena rank description is still not quite fully praising our ability, but it will get there soon.  Reward: 92000 C This guy's machine is really good at connecting with the player but his AC, or rather his behavior, has a major flaw in that he's extremely slow to turn if you get to his side or behind. Doesn't help that he doesn't make full use of his mobility to better reposition himself, rather opting to jump up and down while slowly turning to track the player. With that in mind, as well as having a low ceiling to keep the jumping limited, Auto's not too bad.  Reward: 97000 C Sleek is really drat fast, making use of boost hopping techniques and circling around the player. Though if you're able to lead him right into a corner or wall and have him get stuck for a few seconds you can easily deal some heavy damage. Otherwise, just make sure you're able to keep him in sight and stay on the move.  Reward: 103000 C Another KARASAWA user, and as you'd expect he's very drat threatening. As such the battle called for energy arm cannons, and even then I was unsure I'd be able to turn this match around. That rifle seriously hurts when it hits so you gotta prepared to lead those shots and dodge them. Cover from the pillars does a good enough job providing some leeway for that, but it's always brief.  During these battles, I unlocked a new booster part for reach rank 5.  It has significant boost power which makes it great if you want to get around real fast, but for the AC build I am currently using the increased weight and charge drain makes it less favorable than the regular boosters I have equipped. On a heavier AC with higher weight limit this would be more useful, especially to compensate for heavy ACs being much slower.  And before we can start challenging the top 3, we got a new mail. Well, two actually.  Sender: Elan Cubis How are you? It has been a while. I've come across some tantalizing information in regards to the corporations involved with Nine-Ball It seems that all corporate sponsors involved with Nine-Ball experience either rapid success, or deteriorate quickly and disappear. Therefore, I'm lead to believe that the recent attacks against PROGTECH are probably intended to destroy the company. Not only is he a skillful Raven, but he also seems to harbor some secret agenda. Who is this man? Elan has become a lot more chatty with us as of late. Though it is nice to be receiving more info about Nine-Ball, especially as we start to approach the end game.  Sender: PROGTECH An emergency situation has arisen. We have an urgent request regarding a mission for you. Please read the request description for more info. And of course, we get a new mission because PROGTECH's found themselves in deep poo poo once again.  We've relocated our Chief Scientist, Elan Cubis, to our Corporate HQ. Unfortunately our timing couldn't have been worse, as the building is now under attack. The ID of the intruders is unknown and all attempts to stop their progress have failed. They're making headway towards the building's core and Elan's location. We have no time to waste. A top-class Raven such as yourself is needed immediately. Take out the intruders.  Unknown intruders, PROGTECH execs in danger...who's gonna take a bet Nine-Ball's gonna show up this time? Ah, whatever, let's get going.    In we go into corporate headquarters that seems suspiciously designed to allow ease of movement for giant robots.    Well, that answers the question right there. Gonna have to make sure I don't get hurt too much before I actually face him.   This mission is very quiet and devoid of enemies for the first two floors, but once you hit the second console to summon an elevator...    ...it's an ambush! The walls open up and reveal some Stinkbug and Heavy Bold MTs. They take about the same amount of damage to take down, either from the back cannon or the KARASAWA.  And how convenient. The elevator I summoned just arrived after mopping up the last of the MTs on this floor. But more are waiting up above.   Always fly up the elevator shafts to save time as well as make yourself less likely to take damage immediately upon reach the top. Also don't make the same mistake I do in the video by trying to melee the Heavy Bolds. Really hard to time it as they'll always push right back.   At this point, I have already expended 30% of the ammo I have for the KARASAWA, and because we got Nine-Ball at the end of this level I want to save as much as I can for that fight. So I switch to the back mounted laser cannon and blow everything to pieces.     And this tactic pretty much continues for the next few corridors and rooms until I reach an elevator that actually descends instead of ascends.    The enemies start to thin out by this point, though I have also sustained more than 50% damage to my AC. Hope it holds up till the end.  Down this short corridor is a door leading to an circular room, with our target inside.     After that brief talk of power, the fight commences.    Now, Nine-Ball's tactics in this fight are about the same as when we last encountered, although because of the smaller space of this room compared to the open factory area from before, he's more likely to rush you and go for a blade attack. Lots of boosting to stay out of his way while also avoiding his pulse rifle shots.   OF course, he still has no problems with locking you into a corner by repeatedly firing his dual missiles, which actually makes him still a very easy target to hit because his lateral movement becomes almost nonexistent.  Wait a second. He's exploding? Nine-Ball didn't retreat?    Holy poo poo guys, we did it!  We took down Nine-Ball and saw the bastard go up in flames. Yeah, we took a lot of damage getting to him and a lot was at risk, but now that he's done for our primary goal is basically done now. Crazy, right? I was almost expecting so major final boss encounter out of that, but at least now he should be knocked off the rankings and I should be moved up to-  What?  WHAT!? What is this? Elan, Lana, PROGTECH, someone, ANYONE explain to me what this bullshit is!  Sender: Elan Cubis It appears as though you have destroyed Nine-Ball, but why does he still exist in the Arena? There is still no useful data pertaining to Hustler One, but we have been able to identify the group responsible for tampering with his data. It was the NEST. There is no mistaking the fact that the RAVENS' NEST was tampering with his data. I'm still not sure how Hustler One is connected to the NEST, but I do know this...the NEST isn't just a normal Raven support organization, but also something else. Well, this has gotten pretty serious. Even the Nest is corrupt. Though considering the last incarnation of this organization was being controlled by an AI, somehow I'm not exactly surprised.  But enough about that. Nine-Ball's still out there supposedly and the only thing left now is to get a shot at him in the Arena. Main Arena Ranks #3 - 2    Reward: 110000 C The Great S. is essentially the P27 from the last fight, except with even more armor, less mobility, and on top of using the KARASAWA can fire multi missiles. All that can be said is same strategies as before apply, only way more patience and persistence is required to succeed. That armor can take quite a while to whittle down without the right tools.  Top 3, baby, nothing's stopping us now!  Hell, we even earned some new arms out of it.  This is one of two new arm parts in Master of Arena, this one being a normal arm type. It's on the heavier side of things, with the most energy defense points of all the normal arm parts, and on top of that has plenty of AP. While it doesn't have a unique function in this regard, it's also the first arm part that has built in shields on its forearms. They're just there for aesthetics. Nice design too, but not one we can fit on our AC as is without breaking the weight limit rules. Anyway, back to the Arena.  Reward: 150000 C Big piece of advice is to not stay too close to Pandora. His AC's got the FINGER, and while the ammo and attack power got a big nerf after Project Phantasma, it can still be devastating if you're in its line of fire for too long. Otherwise, this AC's got so little AP than the average AC the only way it could be lower is if it swapped the regular arms for weapon arms. Just keep a good distance, dodge the rockets when he starts using them, and fire until he's down. Nothing an experienced Raven can't handle.  And here we are. Rank #2. It's just me and Nine-Ball now. Nothing's gonna stop me fro- Oh god dammit, what NOW!?  Sender: Elan Cubis I am, as far as I can determine, in the safest possible places. I did some digging in the NEST data bank and the only relevant pilot data information I found in regards to Nine-Ball was a strange word; [H-1]. The impression I got was that H-1 wasn't a person's name, but the name of some sort of part. It's possible that a person called Hustler One doesn't even exist in the first place. Interestingly, the name of your previous NEST contact, Lana Nielsen, also came up during my search. There must be some connection between Lana and Nine-Ball. Please be careful! ... Please be safe, Elan.  Sender: Lana Nielsen It has been a while. Congratulations on reach the second highest rung on the Arena ladder. I never thought you would achieve such success. Your skills have far exceeded my original estimation of you. You have become too powerful! Do you remember? I told you I'd arrange a meeting with Nine-Ball for you one day. Well, that day has arrived. Oh...oh dear. Well, because we got kicked back out of the Arena again, I can only assume that this battle won't be following the rules of the Arena. Something bad's probably waiting for me.  Time to go make some preparations. Extensive preparations. See you all on ⑨ Day.
|
|
#
?
Aug 28, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
quote:I was also about to suggest that perhaps Hustler One was originally a regular but very skilled pilot, who got replaced by an AI and a replica of his AC after he was killed at some point in the timeline (probably long before any of the player characters show up). However, what's been revealed in the last couple of missions/emails seems to exclude this idea.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2015 00:34
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:Waiiiiiit a minute. Is this the same design as the cover AC from AC2? Loadout is the same and the head looks similar enough to make me think the AC2 part is meant to be the same thing plus a bit of an aesthetic overhaul/reimagining...
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2015 02:26
|
|
|
I believe Lynx Minx is a guy, for whatever it's worth.
|
|
#
?
Aug 30, 2015 03:45
|
|
|
Well, I got my footage recorded for the final mission well ahead of time. Now all that's left between now and September 9th is to get everything presented just right. I hope you all will be able to appreciate the suffering I put myself through just to make the end of Master of Arena's campaign as good as it can be. Gonna make it something special.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2015 05:25
|
|
|
Part 10: Destroy... Well everyone, it's that time. ⑨ Day has arrived, and no it is not in celebration of this moron.  This is the day Nine-Ball is defeated for good. Since the last update, I spent some time in the garage mulling over what changes I would need to make to my loadout for the final battle. We're unable to directly challenge Nine-Ball via the Arena so it's going to happen during a mission. And since we know how stuff like the last mission in AC1 turned out, just sticking to the usual won't cut it.  The head and core are the same as always, but we've changed to some heavier legs which allow us to equip some bigger, more heavily armored arms. The LN-S3 and AN-891-S if you recall were both AC parts introduced in this game that we won for participating in the arena, the former at the end of the Humanoid Legs Arena on Disc 2, and the latter from climbing up the ranks in the main arena. I mentioned earlier in the playthrough that based on the stats these legs might get some use if "something tough comes along." We'll they're getting used now just for that. In addition, I've swapped the KARASAWA for the WG-XFwPPk, which has only a third of the KARASAWA's attack power but double the ammo. We're gonna need the ammo to get through the first half because the KARASAWA's fifty shots won't be enough. Especially with the way I tend to miss a good portion of my shots. Lastly, the back laser cannon's been swapped with the trusty multi-missile launcher. This will be the one mission where this weapon will shine the most, but that's if things work out smoothly the first time. Oh, and the generator's been changed to the slightly heavier GBG-XR, with the benefit being an increased Maximum Charge so we can boost about as effectively as before considering we got this somewhat heavier build now. Some optional parts have been switched around for other functions like automatic missile launches and we're set. No time to waste. Let's get to the briefing.  There is a Factory near Isaac City that no one knows of. I am waiting there. Scientists attacked... Ravens targeted... The best AC in the Arena lives even after defeat... Do you think you've figured it all out? Come meet me to see if you're right.  Why yes, I have figured out, but I might as well let the mission play out and have it explained there. Why spoil the fun here? *Be sure to watch this along with the other videos afterward. The audio is very important here*    We start out in a short hallway leading to a tall room, and as we head forward a familiar voice is her to greet us.   Wait, "all of you"? But I'm the only one here.  Oh yeah, and not even a minute in and we're already thrown into a battle with Nine-Ball. The bastard yet lives.  Unfortunately, this encounter is pretty easy to exploit. You open the door to the room where Nine-Ball is, but you can still stay in the hallway and we will never follow you in there. There is literally an invisible wall that prevents it from passing through that door, so you can easily unload into him the moment line of sight is confirmed.  Although I say unfortunately, in actuality it's rather fortunate to take this approach because of what's coming up.  Anyway, Nine-Ball's destroyed (again) and we have to boost to the top of the room to find the exit. This is where bringing a heavy AC would appear to be a bad idea, but there is nothing else in this room to distract us. You just have to be better about managing your boost and knowing the weight of your machine to do so effectively.  This next section is multiple corridors with an elevator at the end, but in these hallways some pretty major discoveries are made. Some that are unique to this game, others that are extremely familiar to those who completed the first game. I'll let the video and these images speak for themselves.     So yes. As suspected, there's more than one Nine-Ball. In fact, there's a LOT of them. It's no surprise when you remember that you fight it twice at the end of AC1. Also Lana Nielsen, you're former handler, is revealed to be in very close to the same position as R was in the first game; an AI tasked with monitoring the progress of humanity and steering it through conflict while containing any potential destruction by eliminating dangerous entities directly, even using Raven's as their tools via the NEST only to snuff them out later. The twist exclusive to this game is that Hustler One and Lana Nielsen are one in the same. Elan Cubis was correct in his assumption. H-1 isn't the name of a person. It's an AI. And in its eyes, we are a threat to the current state of the world, which considering where it's at after the horror that was the Great Destruction, it's not in a very stable spot I'd say.   The elevator reaches its destination, and we pass through a series of multiple doors that open in rapid succession, and then find the entrance to another room. Get ready because we're not going back after we see what's behind this door.  Yep, there are two Nine-Balls.  And unlike the ones we just passed in the halls, they are active.  And we're gonna fight them both at the same time.  Welcome to the first circle of hell.  This early on in the series, the idea of one AC having to deal with a group of 2 enemy AC wasn't used too often during missions (hell, 2 on 2 wouldn't even be much of a thing till AC3 and its unlockable team arena), and when it has been used in this generation the encounters weren't that difficult. This is nothing but difficult.  In addition to Nine-Ball's usual tactics being made worse by them happening twice as normal (constant pulse rifle shots while stunlocking you with dual missiles from both ACs), the AI has decided it's now time for them to whip out the grenade launcher. Remember that because Nine-Ball is AI controlled, it's considered the same as a Human PLUS and has no need to stand in place in order to use it. This also can result in making your life somewhat easier, if you can keep track of where both Nine-Balls are and use friendly fire to your advantage. The grenade launcher packs a punch, but what both Nine-Ball's don't quite realize is that even if one of them isn't in the other's line of sight, firing it off too close to each other will result in one of them taking splash damage. That's essentially how I was able to take out the first one without having to connect as many shots. Keep one of them close as the other fires the grenades  The stress is slightly relieved once it turns into a one on one fight, but depending on how much AP you've lost by this point you still need to be on your toes.  In this case, keep moving and use tactics from earlier encounters to finish off the last one. I was able to lead Nine-Ball into a corner and stuck against the wall so aiming would be easier. Didn't stop him from getting off a grenade or two though.   The next door opens up after the end of Lana/Hustler One's speech about its goals, and we're presented with an evelator leading us further into hell.  Only we won't be going down one level at a time. It's straight to the bottom from here. Here's the second half of the mission. At this point just conveying what's next through screenshots and text won't be enough. Enter Factory - Final Battle                    
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 17:15
|
|
|
⑨ Day can be shared you know.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 18:02
|
|
|
Daaaaaamn. Are you meant to win that mission, or be erased in the name of progress? I guess I'll find out soon enough, but... That's a pretty brutal fight... 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 18:05
|
|
|
Oh, you are meant to win, but you are going to suffer through one of the hardest boss fights in not only From Software's history, but gaming in general. That is why whenever Nineball is brought up among AC fans, it is equally respected and feared. That is why the merest mention of the number 9 in any AC game will cause anyone who knows better to run screaming in the opposite direction.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 18:13
|
|
|
SIGSEGV posted:⑨ Day can be shared you know. In more ways one can possibly imagine: http://magnumphoenixzx.deviantart.com/art/When-Nineball-met-the-Nineball-326306047 Happy Cirno Day!
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 20:19
|
|
|
By the way, that jacked up super Nine-Ball is known informally as either Magic Nine-Ball (as in Magic 8 Ball), or Nine-Ball Seraph (Seraphim being the ninth order in the celestial hierarchy) 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 22:03
|
|
|
Are you sure about that first one? Because the only name I've ever seen is Nineball Seraph. I'm fairly certain that's even its official name.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2015 22:12
|
|
|
So here's the thing, Nineball Seraph is terrifying, as we've seen. You know what's even more terrifying? That wasn't even it's full power. Let's see what it was holding back: Orbitals An active Camouflage system A chest mounted death ray (4:25) More Orbitals (6:10) A finisher out of an anime (6:21) Possibly the full extent of his missiles Ashsaber fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Sep 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 01:26
|
|
|
Part 10.5: ...Nine-Ball ... I AIN'T DONE YET!! Nine-Ball Seraph This is it. This is what the game has been ramping up towards. If the video near the end of last update didn't tip you off, this boss is not someone to be trifled with. Even after all the run ins we've had with Nine-Ball over the game, nothing truly prepares you for the final form of this menacing machine: Nine-Ball Seraph.  Now, From Software has gained quite a reputation as of late thanks to the Souls series, primarily in the form of the masses talking about how the games are "so hard, oh my god", which is just the silliest thing ever, especially in the case of Dark Souls 1. What really makes something truly hard in a game is when there is one moment, whether it's a level, or a boss, or something else entirely, that even if you've played the game multiple time and know it like the back of your hand, you still go in with trepidation. You know there's a lot riding on that encounter and things could go horribly wrong in ways that the rest of the game normally would not for an experienced player. That's what differentiates truly hard from just people being overall poo poo at the game and calling it the hardest thing ever with hyperbole, and Nine-Ball Seraph fits that category of "truly hard" to a tee. If you're new to the game, he will kick your rear end in the most brutal fashion. If you're experienced with the games, he will still kick your rear end, but not as hard so long as you put in the effort and skill to keep up the pace.  Nine-Ball Seraph's silhouette bears a close resemblance to the regular models, though of course he's got the gigantic rocket jets attached to the back and otherwise completely custom parts and stats that the player will never gain access to. He hits really hard, and despite what would appear to be a top heavy robot, he is extremely agile with the ability to transform into a jet like form and fly around at even faster speeds. Seraph's weapons are a real force to be reckoned with. Especially when, with the exception of his machine gun arms, every other weapon attack explodes upon impact along with splash damage. This includes his plasma bolts, his dual large missiles, and the most devastating of all, DUAL loving LASER BLADES. This poo poo can deal up to around 3K worth of damage upon impact and is the fastest way to die. Doesn't help that most of the time he immediately charges you at the start to use it (the other rare times he just transforms and flies away firing missiles).  So how do you do it. How in the loving hell does one take down a boss that easily outshines every regular AC in terms of stats? Remember how I said I was going to take multi missiles into the mission? This is what they're for.  Compared to many encounters in the AC series, the specific threat that Seraph poses to the player means that a wide variety of different builds are simply not viable. There are very few weapon types to rely on that can get the job done here.  Missiles are pretty much the best weapon to go for in this fight. The biggest reason why is that they follow the target upon launch and will connect assuming there are no obstructions, and it's generally hard to have missiles get blocked in this open space unless they're led into the ground. Because Nine-Ball Seraph moves incredibly fast it becomes very easy to waste ammo from your primary weapon just when trying to hit him. And you don't want to stand in front of him on the ground anyway since the dual blades also produce shockwaves like Human PLUS ACs can do. So with a large view box, and the automatic missile launch optional part equipped just so you have one less button to worry about, keeping a far distance from Seraph while he's in jet form and maintaining lock will end up killing him relatively quickly. And this is also a prime example of why multi missiles specifically kick loving rear end in this series. You only have to get one lockon on an enemy for all six missiles to fire and track the target. For the maximum effect firing up into the air or from the air is most effective as the bottom two missiles won't collide with the ground mid flight. Regardless, it took only five volleys of missiles before I was able to see Seraph explode, and since some of those had the bottom two hit the floor, I'd estimate it would take around 25 missiles or so from this weapon to end the fight. And compared to using normal weapons that require you to hold a lock for longer before firing multiple missiles, you can see why this is value.  But with such high mobility that the fight requires, it begs the question why I even took the heavier legs in the first place. There is another challenge to this fight that isn't found from actually fighting Nine-Ball Seraph. The challenge comes in the preparation. The final mission refills your weapons and heals your AC during the loading transition, much like the final mission of AC1. Both parts of MoA's final mission feel very different as the first half requires enough weaponry and armor to survive the endurance test of fighting one Nine-Ball followed by 2 at once. But then Seraph comes in and very likely there's a high chance that anyone going into that fight would find their build doesn't stand up to the test. Mobility means less weapons or other powerful tools that have lots of weight, but you need the weapons and armor to get through the earlier challenges. It's an ultimate test of how you can balance the effectiveness of both these aspects in designing a generation one AC. And while I'd say I maybe skewed a bit too much towards the heavy weapons and armor side, loving whatever I made it work despite failing multiple times before.  Well then. After all that sperging, Nine-Ball Seraph went down on the seventh take (some of which I intentionally flubbed for the sake of the failure reel), and we're treated to the final cinematic of the game. No last speech from the antagonist like R did in AC1.   Just a broken, burning machine.   A machine that refuses to go down to the bitter end.  If you pay close attention, you might recognize the music that plays near the end as being from the intro CG for the very first Armored Core. Kind of a fitting theme to use to close out the first generation of this franchise.  Everything during this fight, right up to the end of this cutscene, is what cemented the legacy of Nine-Ball and why I hold this game in the top three for the entire series. A great combination of missions and arena battles, a simple yet compelling revenge plot with twists, and topping it all off is this evil, determined son of a bitch AI controlled AC whose reputation, power, and even his loving theme music would continue to manifest in multiple forms throughout the rest of the series. Yes, even across multiple continuity reboots as well as an entry in a spin off series.  Shine on, you loving red bastard.   And again, the last piece of text in this is in a very similar vein to the end of AC1. We've essentially stopped the current natural order by murdering the one AI that was assigned to maintain it. After everything that has been revealed in this last mission and before, I still stand by my earlier assumption that this game's story is a reimagining of the first Armored Core, with that original game being a very clear sign of not having the overall continuity set in stone so retconning certain parts would ultimately be necessary for later games to make sense. Though maybe somewhere out there while we were doing robot death matches, some Raven got the opportunity instead of us to fight a Devastator. The world of Armored Core is just full of mystery. Oh, and here are the credits as well, so you know who to thank for putting together this masterful game. Armored Core Master of Arena - Credits Well that's that. The first leg of our journey in this game is complete. But this game is far from over, oh no.  After all, even by destroying the longest running #1 ranked AC in the Arena, I can't truly claim the title "Master of Arena" until I've conquered every last thing, can I? Still, like I said, I never actually did complete all of the Arenas on the second disc. So getting 100% for both discs is gonna be somewhat of a new thing for me. Could be fun. Could be completely infuriating. But it could ultimately be very worthwhile. Bonus content is on the way. Look forward to it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 01:41
|
|
|
That's no AC, that's a -ing Next!
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 01:48
|
|
|
Well, now I know why Nineball is held in such high regard/utter terror by AC fans. That thing is certainly a monster. Now I'm curious to look up to see how the other "legendary" AC (albeit from much later in the series), the White Glint, holds up in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 02:13
|
|
|
terrenblade posted:That's no AC, that's a -ing Next! IthilionTheBrave posted:Well, now I know why Nineball is held in such high regard/utter terror by AC fans. That thing is certainly a monster. Now I'm curious to look up to see how the other "legendary" AC (albeit from much later in the series), the White Glint, holds up in comparison. i was going to do a run down of the weaponry on the table in that final fight, but OP did a much better job at that than i would've
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 02:25
|
|
|
IthilionTheBrave posted:Well, now I know why Nineball is held in such high regard/utter terror by AC fans. That thing is certainly a monster. Now I'm curious to look up to see how the other "legendary" AC (albeit from much later in the series), the White Glint, holds up in comparison. The thing about White Glint is that it became more powerful with each appearance. At first, it was a generic NEXT with nothing really special about it, but when For Answer rolled around it became a very tough (as well as much cooler-looking) boss battle. Then there was its incarnation in the V series, where it became really fearsome. Overall, though, I agree with Seiren-Nineball is better. It just is. On a similar note, I don't see Nineball Seraph as a NEXT. I always thought of it as the horrifying combination of the most powerful AC you could make with a Variable Fighter.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 02:29
|
|
|
IthilionTheBrave posted:Well, now I know why Nineball is held in such high regard/utter terror by AC fans. That thing is certainly a monster. Now I'm curious to look up to see how the other "legendary" AC (albeit from much later in the series), the White Glint, holds up in comparison. Now, as mentioned, White Glint isn't nearly as much of a big deal as Nineball. The first iteration was just a decent speedy-NEXT. 4A made it cool by giving it a very distinctive look, enough that you might have trouble identifying any of the 'final boss' NEXTs but be able to ID WG years after playing. It helped that it was hyped by the story and equipped two multi-missiles. It was solid performance wise, and while it changed with the patches it remained a good all-rounder. Mostly though, it was just pretty. VDay, as mentioned, made it terrifying. It was a full on NEXT, even if it seemed a bit cludged together based on its actual performance. In VDay our AC is a tiny crap-bot, less advanced and generally less well armed than anything ArclightBorealis used after the first few missions of AC1, and the N-WGIX was a NEXT, with all the fun things that implies. Your mech would maybe reach its crotch, it had Primal Armor and a number of weapons, but it didn't really take advantage of any of its capabilities, so I found it kinda crappy as a boss myself. Then there's the bonus boss version, where it has a VOB and does bombing runs. The only way to really beat it is with a team of tank mechs with specialized weapons meant of DPS, as once it looses enough health it will land and being out the Laser Blades,which are just as effective for it as they were in 4A, generally one-shotting anyone on your team. Really White Glint is a legend because it is a memorable mech, generally visually distinct from anything else in the AC series. I think there's only like two memorable mechs from 4A other than WG that I can think of, one because of voice and emblem and one because of really distinctive back weapons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 03:12
|
|
|
As far as the "legends" go regarding ACs like Nine-Ball and Seraph, there is an interesting parallel between the two with regards to how they were ranked in their respective universes. Nine-Ball is #1 in the Arena. This was obviously a fact, and it's what lead to the series adopting the term "Ninebreaker" to describe a Raven of considerable skill that made it to the top of the Arena. Whether or not there were Ravens that were ranked #1 before Nine-Ball was introduced is uncertain, but the reason for that term referencing Nine-Ball specifically is that it's not because he was the absolute strongest in all the entire world. He just had that position as #1 the longest and no one was able to get close to him at any point, likely due to intimidation factor or interference from you-know-who. White Glint as of For Answer, his most recognized incarnation, is ranked #9 in Collared. Obviously this is a shoutout to Nine-Ball itself because of the number, but it places his power in a different context. He's not the top dog, and he could've gone up to rank 1 if he so desired, but instead chooses to be something of a gatekeeper against other NEXTs. His rank serves as a way to have enemies let their guard down and underestimate his abilities. And when you consider what an actual Hustler in a game of Nine-Ball is, White Glint funny enough holds true to that type of player behavior more than Hustler One himself. Everything else people have said regarding White Glint across the AC4/V continuity pretty much covers everything else, though I will add a personal note regarding the appearance factoring into its status by saying Shoji Kawamori designed its 4A iteration and really shows just how loving lame the AC4 part design is in comparison. But that's just me. Can't beat the original. Nine-Ball is king forever. Ashsaber posted:So here's the thing, Nineball Seraph is terrifying, as we've seen. You know what's even more terrifying? That wasn't even it's full power. Also goddammit Ashsaber you just made me boot back up ACE R after years of not wanting to touch it again just to replay this mission.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 04:14
|
|
|
I can't believe I didn't pick up on the weird symmetry of the final cinematic. Here's the track in question that plays over AC1's opening and MoA's ending, for reference. At the start of the first Armored Core, it played over the hero AC being assembled for the first time, here at the end of MoA, it plays over Nine-Ball falling apart limb by limb. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it's kind of interesting to see that the PS1 trilogy goes out in more or less the reverse of how it came in.
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Sep 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2015 04:26
|
|
|
It's a good thing I had to postpone streaming all three PSX Armored Core games, because I tried to stream something a little more demanding and learned that my connection seems to have some trouble with maintaining a consistent upload speed. Time to talk to my ISP  nine-gear crow posted:I can't believe I didn't pick up on the weird symmetry of the final cinematic. Here's the track in question that plays over AC1's opening and MoA's ending, for reference. At the start of the first Armored Core, it played over the hero AC being assembled for the first time, here at the end of MoA, it plays over Nine-Ball falling apart limb by limb. I don't know if it was intentional or not, but it's kind of interesting to see that the PS1 trilogy goes out in more or less the reverse of how it came in. ArclightBorealis posted:Everything else people have said regarding White Glint across the AC4/V continuity pretty much covers everything else, though I will add a personal note regarding the appearance factoring into its status by saying Shoji Kawamori designed its 4A iteration and really shows just how loving lame the AC4 part design is in comparison. But that's just me. Still, can't help but wonder what the next generation will bring.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 21:52
|
|
|
I wish the next generation brings about plots that make more sense. And worlds that make more sense, too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 22:08
|
|
|
Seiren posted:Something in the design seems to have changed between Nexus and Armored Core 4 and on. Earlier games had plenty of parts had some similarities, partly through prototype parts, revisions, and upgraded forms, but parts meant to be different within the same weight class tended to have a more striking appearance. Maybe it's just my relative inexperience with all the parts of AC4 (take your dozen specialist manufacturers and shove 'em) and 5 (stupid loving team-point unlock system FROM why would you do this) but I do feel like this phenomenon is especially bad there, all the parts look needlessly fat, cobbled-together, and same-y. While I get that this "kludged together" thing is part of the idea considering the setting, it's to the point where you can't take a glance and instantly tell what weight class an AC is anymore without prior knowledge or scan mode. Hell, I've even bought the wrong type of legs more than once, buying reverse-joint instead of regular bipeds because the size of the things hid the tell-tale joint section of the legs. I found 5's part design generally better because it tried to closer emulate that balance between sleekness and functionality in the old games, but it hosed up in a major area. Because of the three different damage types, each part needed to have three defense stats in response to it. Problem is the visual designs were too heavily informed by those defense stats so while it may be more difficult to determine the weight class of an AC on sight, I can tell roughly what type of defenses it has because of the type of parts they have and what form they look like. And worst of all, they didn't gel well when trying to make an AC with a mix of TE and KE defense stats for example (for reference, TE focused parts have a lot smooth, round edges while the KE parts are more blockey by comparison, and it's incredibly obvious). It's like three separate design pools that weren't thoroughly tested to be mixed with other parts. Even if they all didn't gel together well, the overall look of the individual parts did remind me more of the old games than 4/4A did, so I can only imagine they'll continue improve for the next generation if they don't decide to get Shoji fully involved again.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2015 22:29
|
|
|
Not going to lie, this is an attempt to make people remember that this still exists (and that Arc hasn't quite finished it yet!) My initial streaming tests showed that I was unable to provide quality due to a poor upload speed. This has been fixed. Recent streams are acceptable in terms of visual and auditory quality. My commentary is pretty awful, but hey . I'm about..1/3rd of the way through the first game as of right now. I have everything I need available to bend these games over my knee. So, while I'm reluctant to share the link since I haven't received a true "go ahead" from Arc, I do so in the name of ARMORED CORE in hopes that it gets a little more exposure in the coming months.This will run for the rest of the week, approximately between the times of 4pm~11pm EST. Occasionally there will be surprises. Tune in at your leisure here.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2015 02:47
|
|
|
I finally finished reading through this thread, and while I can't remember much from PP, I have to say that MoA is pretty cool. The way it sets up and mixes together the story, stages, and arena is something I haven't seen in a video game. And the ending was impressive, from the incredible final boss (which would be considered an optional superboss in most other games), to the poetic ending.
|
|
#
?
Nov 4, 2015 15:47
|
|
|
So I'm curious - You gonna go through and continue through some more games in the series, Arc? I've been replaying them lately and I'm kinda keen to see you go in a bit more. In my current runs though, I've been taking care to not mess with the game, and just play purely on its terms, no Plus, no hilariously broken KARASAWA/Moonlight, not even a 1000 shot machinegun. So I started messing around with Necron. I tried to do a joke run and do him with the flamethrower but the best I could get was him down to half.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 05:02
|
|
|
ACES CURE PLANES posted:So I'm curious - You gonna go through and continue through some more games in the series, Arc? I've been replaying them lately and I'm kinda keen to see you go in a bit more. Though as for this game, I'm aiming to wrap up this LP for good before the year's end. But it's not gonna be 100% everything across both discs due to multiple factors. The minor ones being that I've been playing this game so infrequently that I end being rusty when trying to record and I go back on break as a result. Not to mention I had to do a clean reinstall of Windows 7 back near the end of September because Win10 decided to gently caress up my original OS when I wanted to revert back. But the biggest one is that with this LP's format I can't make the remaining Arena fights more interesting than they already are. And there are WAY more Arena battles than there actual missions. I just wouldn't have enough insightful commentary for each opponent without sounding redundant in spots, and I'd rather not just resort to dumping the raw footage for everyone to see. So expect one last major update with maybe a bonus one that covers other miscellaneous factoids and easter eggs pertaining to the game (similar to what I did for AC1). Sorry if some of you were wanting to see me clean house in every Arena ladder on the second disc, but I can't find a good way to make them all fit with the format, and I'd rather not switch to a different style right at the end to facilitate it. I want it to be of good quality, but consistency is important too, you know. Appreciate all the support and comments up to this point though. Even though it's been a very small hobby thus far, LPing's given me good reason to go back to these games for reasons other than just personal enjoyment.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 01:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 00:56 |
|
|
I never even knew or cared about Armored Core before this LP, but I do want to say that I've enjoyed the heck out of this thread. The amount of love you showed towards these games, combined with the pretty eerie sci-fi tone of the series really hits a well-needed spot. It's not really the final update yet, but still want to contribute a little to the thread by saying thanks!
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 06:38
|
|
