Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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pwnyXpress: Mar 28, 2007

Trin Tragula posted:

It's really easy to do this when you've got no idea who Less Wrong is, and then it's just "hey, it's to serve the purpose of poking a bit of fun at the bits of Harry Potter we usually just gloss over for the sake of the story, of course he needs to be a ridiculous smart-alec, I can roll with this".

I can see what you mean, since I haven't looked into it any more than to laugh at his okcupid profile.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 00:21

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:19

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Chapter 5: The Fundamental Attribution Error
Part Two

quote:

They ran into two more well-wishers along the way.

Madam Malkin's Robes had a genuinely boring shopfront, red ordinary brick, and glass windows showing plain black robes within. Not robes that shone or changed or spun, or radiated strange rays that seemed to go right through your shirt and tickle you. Just plain black robes, that was all you could see through the window. The door was propped wide open, as if to advertise that there were no secrets here and nothing to hide.

"I'm going to go off for a few minutes while you get fitted for your robes," said Professor McGonagall. "Will you be all right with that, Mr. Potter?"

Harry nodded. He hated clothes shopping with a fiery passion and couldn't blame the older witch for feeling the same way.

Professor McGonagall's wand came out of her sleeve, tapped Harry's head lightly. "And as you'll need to be clear to Madam Malkin's senses, I am removing the Obfuscation."

"Uh..." Harry said. That did worry him a little; he still wasn't used to the 'Harry Potter' thing.

"I went to Hogwarts with Madam Malkin," McGonagall said. "Even then, she was one of the most composed people I knew. She wouldn't turn a hair if You-Know-Who himself walked into her shop." McGonagall's voice was reminiscent, and very approving. "Madam Malkin won't bother you, and she won't let anyone else bother you."

"Where are you going?" Harry inquired. "Just in case, you know, something does happen."
McGonagall gave Harry a hard look. "I am going there," she said, pointing at a building across the street which showed the sign of a wooden keg, "and buying a drink, which I desperately need. You are to get fitted for your robes, nothing else. I will come back to check up on you shortly, and I expect to find Madam Malkin's shop still standing and not in any way on fire."

Gladdens my heart to see McGonagall standing up to Harry�s bullshit.

Now that I think of it, I�d actually like to read a �boarding school� story written from the perspective of a beleaguered, over-worked teacher who is sick and tired of the crap he or she has to put up with from the precocious self-centred students in her class. I�m sure there are thousands of Harry Potter fanfic written from the POV of one of the Hogwarts staff, but are there any original stories like that?

quote:

Madam Malkin was a bustling old woman who didn't say a word about Harry when she saw the scar on his forehead, and she shot a sharp look at an assistant when that girl seemed about to say something. Madam Malkin got out a set of animated, writhing bits of cloth that seemed to serve as tape measures and set to work examining the medium of her art.

Next to Harry, a pale young boy with a pointed face and awesomecool blonde-white hair seemed to be going through the final stages of a similar process. One of Malkin's two assistants was examining the white-haired boy and the chequerboard-gridded robe he was wearing; occasionally she would tap a corner of the robe with her wand, and the robe would loosen or tighten.

"Hello," said the boy. "Hogwarts, too?"

Harry could predict where this conversation was about to go, and he decided in a split second of frustration that enough was enough.

"Good heavens," whispered Harry, "it couldn't be." He let his eyes widen. "Your... name, sir?"

"Draco Malfoy," said Draco Malfoy, looking slightly puzzled.

"It is you! Draco Malfoy. I - I never thought I'd be so honoured, sir." Harry wished he could make tears come out of his eyes. The others usually started crying at around this point.

"Oh," said Draco, sounding a little confused. Then his lips stretched in a smug smile. "It's good to meet someone who knows his place."

One of the assistants, the one who'd seemed to recognise Harry, made a muffled choking sound.

Harry burbled on. "I'm delighted to meet you, Mr. Malfoy. Just unutterably delighted. And to be attending Hogwarts in your very year! It makes my heart swoon."

Oops. That last part might have sounded a little odd, like he was flirting with Draco or something.

"And I am pleased to learn that I shall be treated with the respect due to the family of Malfoy," the other boy lobbed back, accompanied by a smile such as the highest of kings might bestow upon the least of his subjects, if that subject were honest, though poor.

Eh... drat, Harry was having trouble thinking up his next line. Well, everyone did want to shake the hand of Harry Potter, so - "When my clothes are fitted, sir, might you deign to shake my hand? I should wish nothing more to put the capper upon this day, nay, this month, indeed, my whole lifetime."

The white-blonde-haired boy glared in return. "And what have you done for the Malfoys that entitles you to such a favour?"

Oh, I am so totally trying this routine on the next person who wants to shake my hand. Harry bowed his head. "No, no, sir, I understand. I'm sorry for asking. I should be honoured to clean your boots, rather."

Alright, this part is pretty funny too. I could certainly believe that a 10-year old would be an accomplished troll.

quote:

"Indeed," snapped the other boy. His stern face lightened somewhat. "Tell me, what House do you think you might be sorted into? I'm bound for Slytherin House, of course, like my father Lucius before me. And for you, I'd guess House Hufflepuff, or possibly House Elf."

Harry grinned sheepishly. "Professor McGonagall says that I'm the most Ravenclaw person she's ever seen or heard tell of in legend, so much so that Rowena herself would tell me to get out more, whatever that means, and that I'll undoubtedly end up in Ravenclaw House if the hat isn't screaming too loudly for the rest of us to make out any words, end quote."

"Wow," said Draco Malfoy, sounding slightly impressed. The boy gave a sort of wistful sigh. "Your flattery was great, or I thought so, anyway - you'd do well in Slytherin House, too. Usually it's only my father who gets that sort of grovelling. I'm hoping the other Slytherins will suck up to me now I'm at Hogwarts... I guess this is a good sign, then."

Harry coughed. "Actually, sorry, I've got no idea who you are really."

"Oh come on! " the boy said with fierce disappointment. "Why'd you go and do that, then?" Draco's eyes widened with sudden suspicion. "And how do you not know about the Malfoys? And what are those clothes you're wearing? Are your parents Muggles? "

"Two of my parents are dead," Harry said. His heart twinged. When he put it that way - "My other two parents are Muggles, and they're the ones that raised me."

"What? " said Draco. "Who are you?"

"Harry Potter, pleased to meet you."

"Harry Potter? " gasped Draco. "The Harry -" and the boy cut off abruptly.

There was a brief silence.

Then, with bright enthusiasm, "Harry Potter? The Harry Potter? Gosh, I've always wanted to meet you!"

Draco's attendant emitted a sound like she was strangling but kept on with her work, lifting Draco's arms to carefully remove the chequered robe.

"Shut up," Harry suggested.

"Can I have your autograph? No, wait, I want a picture with you first!"

"Shutupshutupshutup."

"I'm just so delighted to meet you!"

"Burst into flames and die."

"But you're Harry Potter, the glorious saviour of the wizarding world! Everyone's hero, Harry Potter! I've always wanted to be just like you when I grow up so I can -"

I can�t quite tell whether Draco is being sarcastic here or not. Either way, this is very out-of-character from canon Draco, so I suppose this is going to be one of those fanfics where Harry befriends Draco.

quote:

Draco cut off the words in mid-sentence, his face freezing in absolute horror.

Tall, white-haired, coldly elegant in black robes of the finest quality. One hand gripping a silver-handled cane which took on the character of a deadly weapon just by being in that hand. His eyes regarded the room with the dispassionate quality of an executioner, a man to whom killing was not painful, or even deliciously forbidden, but just a routine activity like breathing.

That was the man who had, just that moment, strolled in through the open door.

"Draco," said the man, low and very angry, "what are you saying? "

In one split second of sympathetic panic, Harry formulated a rescue plan.

"Lucius Malfoy!" gasped Harry Potter. "The Lucius Malfoy?"

One of Malkin's assistants had to turn away and face the wall.

Coolly murderous eyes regarded him. "Harry Potter."

"I am so, so honoured to meet you!"

The dark eyes widened, shocked surprise replacing deadly threat.

"Your son has been telling me all about you," Harry gushed on, hardly even knowing what was coming out of his mouth but just talking as fast as possible. "But of course I knew about you all before then, everyone knows about you, the great Lucius Malfoy! The most honoured laureate of all the House of Slytherin, I've been thinking about trying to get into Slytherin House myself just because I heard you were in it as a child -"

"What are you saying, Mr. Potter? " came a near-scream from outside the shop, and Professor McGonagall burst in a second later.

There was such pure horror on her face that Harry's mouth opened automatically, and then blocked on nothing-to-say.

"Professor McGonagall!" cried Draco. "Is it really you? I've heard so much about you from my father, I've been thinking of trying to get Sorted into Gryffindor so I can -"

Ah, so he was indeed being sarcastic earlier on. And they are definitely going to become friends later on. I wonder how Ron and Hermione�s personalities in this story will vary from canon.

quote:

"What? " bellowed Lucius Malfoy and Professor McGonagall in perfect unison, standing side-by-side. Their heads swivelled to look at each other in duplicate motions, and then the two recoiled from one another as though performing a synchronised dance.

There was a sudden flurry of action as Lucius seized Draco and dragged him out of the shop.

And then there was silence.

In Professor McGonagall's left hand lay a small drinking-glass, tilted over to one side in the forgotten rush, now slowly dripping drops of alcohol into the tiny puddle of red wine that had appeared on the floor.

Professor McGonagall strode forward into the shop until she was opposite Madam Malkin.

"Madam Malkin," said Professor McGonagall, her voice calm. "What has been happening here?"

Madam Malkin looked back silently for four seconds, and then cracked up. She fell against the wall, wheezing out laughter, and that set off both of her assistants, one of whom fell to her hands and knees on the floor, giggling hysterically.

Professor McGonagall slowly turned to look at Harry, her expression chilly. "I leave you alone for six minutes. Six minutes, Mr. Potter, by the very clock."

"I was only joking around," Harry protested, as the sounds of hysterical laughter went on nearby.

"Draco Malfoy said in front of his father that he wanted to be sorted into Gryffindor! Joking around isn't enough to do that!" Professor McGonagall paused, visibly taking breaths. "What part of 'get fitted for robes' sounded to you like please cast a Confundus Charm on the entire universe! "

"He was in a situational context where those actions made internal sense -"

"No. Don't explain. I don't want to know what happened in here, ever. Whatever dark power inhabits you, it is contagious, and I don't want to end up like poor Draco Malfoy, poor Madam Malkin and her two poor assistants."

Harry sighed. It was clear that Professor McGonagall wasn't in a mood to listen to reasonable explanations. He looked at Madam Malkin, who was still wheezing against the wall, and Malkin's two assistants, who had now both fallen to their knees, and finally down at his own tape-measure-draped body.

"I'm not quite done being fitted for clothes," Harry said kindly. "Why don't you go back and have another drink?"

I quite liked this scene � the escalating comedy of errors worked pretty well. If Harry spent the story trolling everyone and the role of �Mr Exposition� was passed to someone else, I think I could actually grow to like this particular incarnation of Harry.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 02:08

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

DACK FAYDEN posted:

Oh man, I remember that service. Did they ever make a single dime?

Well I think big yud mentioned he got a good value on getting told to take sleeping pills earlier so presumably whatever he paid them at least.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 04:32

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

I'm coming to the conclusion that Yud'd be a pretty good comedy writer if he wasn't trying to prove how smart he was - the 'just dicking about' sections are pretty fun, and smartass Harry is much more likable than logical overlord Harry.

# ? Feb 27, 2015 06:42

Nyaa: Jan 7, 2010; Like, Nyaa.

I don't think we need to read the reviews for an actual good chapter.

Troll Harry is so good. :allears:

# ? Feb 27, 2015 14:15

Added Space: Jul 13, 2012; Free Markets
Free People

Curse you Hayard-Gunnes!

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/113/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Rationality

In the latest chapter big Yud has given his readers a challenge. Oldy Voldy has kidnapped Harry Potter and has him stripped naked and surrounded. How will our :smuggo:

hero get out of this one?

I pose the same challenge with the exception of changing rule #2. Several major plot point comes from pulling a forced interpretation right out of the author's rear end, so feel free to come up with a ridiculously forced :airquote:

rational explanation for why Harry now has a Gatling Gun that fires cursed cats or any other ridiculous last-minute save.

:siren:

A forum upgrade of your choice will be given to the best response (provided they're not all crap).

# ? Mar 1, 2015 01:57

sat on my keys!: Oct 2, 2014

I confess I haven't read most of this thing. Is the number of ellipses in this latest chapter normal in his dialogue? Because there sure are a lot of them. I know this sounds like a very petty complaint but they are all over the place.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 02:10

sirtommygunn: Mar 7, 2013

He bribed a wizard to make his wand a portkey to his vault in Gringotts for this exact moment: to travel there whenever he is nude so that he can skinny dip in his massive piles of money. Also doubles as an easy escape tool. He rationalized this by saying that if he was ever in a situation that couldn't be solved with magic, it could probably be solved with money.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 04:00

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Harry roleplays an artificial intelligence (which apparently he technically is, being in some sense the product of a brain imprint) and introduces Voldemort and pals to the concepts of Timeless Decision Theory, and then leads them on to the possibility that he is currently interacting with them in a simulation or other illusion right now, meaning that if they do not free him now he will torture an infinite number of Voldemorts in HarrySim space. Having established this situation, he then verbally roleplays the scenario with Voldy until he has no choice but to let him free, at which point he scampers off naked and free.

Alternate twist ending: It doesn't work, Voldemort kills him, and then a titanic Harry-voice booms, Wrong Choice, Tom and the world erupts in Hellraiser torture devices. Because, you see, it WAS a simulation all this time!

Nessus fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Mar 1, 2015

# ? Mar 1, 2015 04:07

where the red fern gropes: Aug 24, 2011

Added Space posted:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/113/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Rationality

In the latest chapter big Yud has given his readers a challenge. Oldy Voldy has kidnapped Harry Potter and has him stripped naked and surrounded. How will our hero get out of this one?

I pose the same challenge with the exception of changing rule #2. Several major plot point comes from pulling a forced interpretation right out of the author's rear end, so feel free to come up with a ridiculously forced rational explanation for why Harry now has a Gatling Gun that fires cursed cats or any other ridiculous last-minute save.

A forum upgrade of your choice will be given to the best response (provided they're not all crap).

Harry has an emergency wand stuffed up his rectum

# ? Mar 1, 2015 07:27

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved if he just died?

# ? Mar 1, 2015 07:37

blastron: Dec 11, 2007; Don't doodle on it!

Voldemort was kind enough to give Harry his wand back so that he could make Harry swear an Unbreakable Vow not to destroy the world, so Harry's got that going for him I guess, even if he has a bunch of Death Eaters (who are portrayed as hilariously incompetent?) pointing their wands at him.

Real answer: use his unique special-snowflake "partial Transfiguration" power (because why wouldn't super-smart ubermench Harry invent a new form of magic when he's 11 years old?) to transmute the air around him into carbon monoxide, an odorless, colorless gas that, in sufficient concentration, causes unconsciousness in 2-3 breaths. Once he's free from immediate danger, he can grab his stuff, use the Time-Turner, and figure out how to solve the problem better. Put Voldemort in magical stasis forever or something, gently caress if I care.

Better answer: Harry casts a spell whose incantation is in Parseltongue, because of course he would have previously researched if Parseltongue could be used to cast spells. If every other language on the planet was used in incantations, why not Parseltongue? This new spell, which will probably be named after some zany anime reference, will have exactly the correct capabilities required to save the day.

i81icu812 posted:

Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved if he just died?

actually, do this instead

# ? Mar 1, 2015 10:57

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Wait, Voldemort's making the little poo poo swear not to destroy the world? Is this because Voldemort (probably accurately) perceives that Harry's crackpot schemes backed by magic could actually destroy the planet?

If so, I think the magician Hitler with no nose has a pretty loving good point here.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:03

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

i81icu812 posted:

Wouldn't it be better for everyone involved if he just died?

Endorsing deathism. No points, back of the class.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:05

anilEhilated: Feb 17, 2014; But I say fuck the rain.; Grimey Drawer

Yud decides to do a demonstration of the death of the author, his magnum opus remains unfinished and the world is better for it.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:07

Qwertycoatl: Dec 31, 2008

Nessus posted:

Wait, Voldemort's making the little poo poo swear not to destroy the world? Is this because Voldemort (probably accurately) perceives that Harry's crackpot schemes backed by magic could actually destroy the planet?

If so, I think the magician Hitler with no nose has a pretty loving good point here.

Yes. The whole reason Voldemort is trying to kill Harry is to stop him from loving up and destroying the world.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:08

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Qwertycoatl posted:

Yes. The whole reason Voldemort is trying to kill Harry is to stop him from loving up and destroying the world.

Is this on general principles or is Harry planning to pull some kind of scheme that Voldemort is specifically addressing?

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:10

Qwertycoatl: Dec 31, 2008

Nessus posted:

Is this on general principles or is Harry planning to pull some kind of scheme that Voldemort is specifically addressing?

There was a prophecy that said he would.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:11

froward: Jun 2, 2014; by Azathoth

I love love LOVE that the author wrote himself into a corner and is crowdsourcing a "solution".

# ? Mar 1, 2015 11:54

Added Space: Jul 13, 2012; Free Markets
Free People

Curse you Hayard-Gunnes!

froward posted:

I love love LOVE that the author wrote himself into a corner and is crowdsourcing a "solution".

I assume he has some preferred solution involving his own pet theories that he'll insist that someone replicates.

# ? Mar 1, 2015 15:12

Hiveminded: Aug 26, 2014

http://the-toast.net/2014/05/27/ayn-rands-harry-potter-sorcerers-stone/

this thread just reminded me of this; it's kind of in the same vein as Methods, except several hundred times funnier and not a bloated, bilious mass

# ? Mar 1, 2015 16:50

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

"Ah, Mr. Potter. Awake at last. I see that your so-called 'rationality' does nothing to protect you from the sleeping draught that my minion so... adequately... slipped into your drink."

"Uhh, whu? Buh bahes..."

"Yes. Yes, Harry. I may call you Harry, yes? You see, through much cunning and wickedness of deed, I have contrived a state of affairs where you, the oh-so-logical one, are now my prisoner. MUAHAHAH-"

"Nuh-uh"

"AHAHAwhat?"

"I'm not your prisoner."

"What."

"You see, before I came to Hogwarts, I cast a little spell of my own. Perhaps you've heard the name 'Bayes'? No? Nevermind. Using the 'magic' of Bayes, I predicted the outcome of every situation I could arrive in. Logically, had any of those situations been negative, such as this alleged capture, I would have taken steps long ago to ensure it's prevention. So, you see, I cannot be your prisoner. Given that we are both trapped in this room, he-who-shall-be-quantified, you must therefore be my prisoner."

The guards stand up, applaud, then shoot Voldemort.

petrol blue fucked around with this message at 06:14 on Mar 2, 2015

# ? Mar 2, 2015 01:04

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Chapter 6: The Planning Fallacy
Part One

quote:

Blah blah disclaimer blah blah Rowling blah blah ownership.

A/N: The "Aftermath" section of this chapter is part of the story, not omake.
________________________________________

You think your day was surreal? Try mine.

________________________________________

Some children would have waited until after their first trip to Diagon Alley.

"Bag of element 79," Harry said, and withdrew his hand, empty, from the mokeskin pouch.

Most children would have at least waited to get their wands first.

"Bag of okane," said Harry. The heavy bag of gold popped up into his hand.

Oh no, we are back to obnoxious show-off Harry.

The Pouch of Holding shouldn�t have responded to �okane�, though. �Okane� is Japanese for �money�; for �gold� he should have said �kin�.

quote:

Harry withdrew the bag, then plunged it again into the mokeskin pouch. He took out his hand, put it back in, and said, "Bag of tokens of economic exchange." That time his hand came out empty.

"Give me back the bag that I just put in." Out came the bag of gold once more.

Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres had gotten his hands on at least one magical item. Why wait?

"Professor McGonagall," Harry said to the bemused witch strolling beside him, "can you give me two words, one word for gold, and one word for something else that isn't money, in a language that I wouldn't know? But don't tell me which is which."

Wow! There�re actually things that this Harry doesn�t know!

quote:

"Ahava and zahav," said Professor McGonagall. "That's Hebrew, and the other word means love."

"Thank you, Professor. Bag of ahava." Empty.

"Bag of zahav." And it popped up into his hand.

"Zahav is gold?" Harry questioned, and Professor McGonagall nodded.

Harry thought over his collected experimental data. It was only the most crude and preliminary sort of effort, but it was enough to support at least one conclusion:

"Aaaaaaarrrgh this doesn't make any sense! "

The witch beside him lifted a lofty eyebrow. "Problems, Mr. Potter?"

"I just falsified every single hypothesis I had! How can it know that 'bag of 115 Galleons' is okay but not 'bag of 90 plus 25 Galleons'? It can count but it can't add? It can understand nouns, but not some noun phrases that mean the same thing? The person who made this probably didn't speak Japanese and I don't speak any Hebrew, so it's not using their knowledge, and it's not using my knowledge -" Harry waved a hand helplessly.

It�s certainly not using his knowledge of Japanese.

quote:

"The rules seem sorta consistent but they don't mean anything! I'm not even going to ask how a pouch ends up with voice recognition and natural language understanding when the best Artificial Intelligence programmers can't get the fastest supercomputers to do it after thirty-five years of hard work," Harry gasped for breath, "but what is going on? "

He just saw the person next to him turn into a cat and he�s still getting flustered about voice recognition and natural language understanding.

quote:

"Magic," said Professor McGonagall.

"That's just a word! Even after you tell me that, I can't make any new predictions! It's exactly like saying 'phlogiston' or 'elan vital' or 'emergence' or 'complexity'!"

The black-robed witch laughed aloud. "But it is magic, Mr. Potter."

Harry slumped over a little. "With respect, Professor McGonagall, I'm not quite sure you understand what I'm trying to do here."

"With respect, Mr. Potter, I'm quite sure I don't. Unless - this is just a guess, mind - you're trying to take over the world?"

"No! I mean yes - well, no! "

"I think I should perhaps be alarmed that you have trouble answering the question."

Harry glumly considered the Dartmouth Conference on Artificial Intelligence in 1956. It had been the first conference ever on the topic, the one that had coined the phrase "Artificial Intelligence". They had identified key problems such as making computers understand language, learn, and improve themselves. They had suggested, in perfect seriousness, that significant advances on these problems might be made by ten scientists working together for two months.

No. Chin up. You're just starting on the problem of unravelling all the secrets of magic. You don't actually know whether it's going to be too difficult to do in two months.

"And you really haven't heard of other wizards asking these sorts of questions or doing this sort of scientific experimenting?" Harry asked again. It just seemed so obvious to him.

Then again, it'd taken more than two hundred years after the invention of the scientific method before any Muggle scientists had thought to systematically investigate which sentences a human four-year-old could or couldn't understand. The developmental psychology of linguistics could've been discovered in the eighteenth century, in principle, but no one had even thought to look until the twentieth. So you couldn't really blame the much smaller wizarding world for not investigating the Retrieval Charm.

Professor McGonagall pursed her lips, then shrugged. "I'm still not sure what you mean by 'scientific experimenting', Mr. Potter. As I said, I've seen Muggleborn students try to get Muggle science to work inside Hogwarts, and people invent new Charms and Potions every year."

Harry shook his head. "Technology isn't the same thing as science at all. And trying lots of different ways to do something isn't the same as experimenting to figure out the rules." There were plenty of people who'd tried to invent flying machines by trying out lots of things-with-wings, but only the Wright Brothers had built a wind tunnel to measure lift... "Um, how many Muggle-raised children do you get at Hogwarts every year?"

"Perhaps ten or so?"

Harry missed a step and almost tripped over his own feet. "Ten? "

The Muggle world had a population of six billion and counting. If you were one in a million, there were seven of you in London and a thousand more in China. It was inevitable that the Muggle population would produce some eleven-year-olds who could do calculus - Harry knew he wasn't the only one. He'd met other prodigies in mathematical competitions. In fact he'd been thoroughly trounced by competitors who probably spent literally all day practising maths problems and who'd never read a science-fiction book and who would burn out completely before puberty and never amount to anything in their future lives because they'd just practised known techniques instead of learning to think creatively. (Harry was something of a sore loser.)

That last bit feels like it came from somewhere deep in the heart. Anyone know if the author had taken part in maths competitions as a child?

# ? Mar 2, 2015 03:42

Arc Hammer: Mar 4, 2013; Got any deathsticks?

I still don't get where he's coming from that McGonagall doesn't know what science means. The wizards aren't stupid, they're just for the most part ignorant of muggles advances. But there is a science to chemistry, and Potions are just wizard chemistry infused with magic.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 05:38

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

Arcsquad12 posted:

I still don't get where he's coming from that McGonagall doesn't know what science means. The wizards aren't stupid, they're just for the most part ignorant of muggles advances. But there is a science to chemistry, and Potions are just wizard chemistry infused with magic.

I think he means a (systematic) attempt to find the rules that make stuff do what it does. The implication is that every new potion made is done by pure guesswork instead of by learning and applying known rules. How he'd know that is beyond me.

Mixing poo poo together isn't chemistry, chemistry is the rules that let you figure out what'll happen without necking a pint of strong acid, or why sodium towels don't work.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 06:34

Added Space: Jul 13, 2012; Free Markets
Free People

Curse you Hayard-Gunnes!

Arcsquad12 posted:

I still don't get where he's coming from that McGonagall doesn't know what science means. The wizards aren't stupid, they're just for the most part ignorant of muggles advances. But there is a science to chemistry, and Potions are just wizard chemistry infused with magic.

There is, loosely, two models of science. There's the Baconian, experimentation, guess-and-check method you learn in high school. Then there's the Aristotelian, learning from approved masters, authoritarian based science which is - still relatively common, actually. Most science for most of human history ran on the second model. Arguably most science today still runs on the Aristotelian model, although the elite masters are occasionally allowed to add new standards. What McGonagall would call science is studying stuff that someone else came up with hundreds of years ago and they don't really question.

New potion? Are you mad? Half the ones we already have will turn you inside out if you're not really freaking careful, and you want to fool around with a new one? If Merlin didn't come up with it it's not worth finding anyway!

# ? Mar 2, 2015 07:20

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

petrol blue posted:

I think he means a (systematic) attempt to find the rules that make stuff do what it does. The implication is that every new potion made is done by pure guesswork instead of by learning and applying known rules. How he'd know that is beyond me.

Mixing poo poo together isn't chemistry, chemistry is the rules that let you figure out what'll happen without necking a pint of strong acid, or why sodium towels don't work.

I mean, hell, one of the few things we know about Dumbledore is that he did some research on dragon blood.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 07:22

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Wizards do research on magical stuff, although perhaps not with double-blind experimental trials or the like. Presumably there are laws of magic and so forth which they use, even if they're imperfect, but those weren't the focus of the drama. I mean Harry never took a poo poo in the Potter novels I read, but that doesn't mean he's some magical unshitting being.

Though this one seems pretty full of poo poo!

# ? Mar 2, 2015 07:26

Pvt.Scott: Feb 16, 2007; What God wants, God gets, God help us all

Harry will be attending a school that teaches the science of magic. Say this thing, use this focus, direct your thoughts properly and you can replicate a spell that will have the same effect every time. There are foundational principles and techniques, that once learned, allow more complex spells to be performed. "It's magic," seems like a perfectly good answer to give a muggle who has had no exposure to the wizarding world when they ask how something magical works. If the little poo poo wants to read up on Sub-Ley-line Aether Flow Theory or something, tell him to go to the campus library.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 07:32

Tunicate: May 15, 2012

Nessus posted:

I mean Harry never took a poo poo in the Potter novels I read, but that doesn't mean he's some magical unshitting being.

Though this one seems pretty full of poo poo!

well, he *is* a transhumanist

# ? Mar 2, 2015 07:32

JosephWongKS: Apr 4, 2009; by Nyc_Tattoo

Chapter 6: The Planning Fallacy
Part Two

quote:

But... in the wizarding world...

Ten Muggle-raised children per year, who'd all ended their Muggle educations at the age of eleven? And Professor McGonagall might be biased, but she had claimed that Hogwarts was the largest and most eminent wizarding school in the world... and it only educated up to the age of seventeen.

Professor McGonagall undoubtedly knew every last detail of how you went about turning into a cat. But she seemed to have literally never heard of the scientific method. To her it was just Muggle magic. And she didn't even seem curious about what secrets might be hiding behind the natural language understanding of the Retrieval Charm.

That left two possibilities, really.

Possibility one: Magic was so incredibly opaque, convoluted, and impenetrable, that even though wizards and witches had tried their best to understand, they'd made little or no progress and eventually given up; and Harry would do no better.

Or...

Harry cracked his knuckles in determination, but they only made a quiet sort of clicking sound, rather than echoing ominously off the walls of Diagon Alley.

Possibility two: He'd be taking over the world.

Eventually. Perhaps not right away.

That sort of thing did sometimes take longer than two months. Muggle science hadn't gone to the moon in the first week after Galileo.

It appears that Harry thinks that the second possibility has a higher probability than the first. Isn�t that �irrational�, considering that Harry knows next-to-nothing about magic or the wizarding / witching community?

quote:

But Harry still couldn't stop the huge smile that was stretching his cheeks so wide they were starting to hurt.

Ten. Years. Old.

quote:

Harry had always been frightened of ending up as one of those child prodigies that never amounted to anything and spent the rest of their lives boasting about how far ahead they'd been at age ten. But then most adult geniuses never amounted to anything either. There were probably a thousand people as intelligent as Einstein for every actual Einstein in history. Because those other geniuses hadn't gotten their hands on the one thing you absolutely needed to achieve greatness. They'd never found an important problem.

Again, seems like the author is speaking of himself in this case. Has he claimed to be a child prodigy and/or a genius in his other writings?

quote:

You're mine now, Harry thought at the walls of Diagon Alley, and all the shops and items, and all the shopkeepers and customers; and all the lands and people of wizarding Britain, and all the wider wizarding world; and the entire greater universe of which Muggle scientists understood so much less than they believed. I, Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, do now claim this territory in the name of Science.

Lightning and thunder completely failed to flash and boom in the cloudless skies.

"What are you smiling about?" inquired Professor McGonagall, warily and wearily.

"I'm wondering if there's a spell to make lightning flash in the background whenever I make an ominous resolution," explained Harry. He was carefully memorising the exact words of his ominous resolution so that future history books would get it right.

"I have the distinct feeling that I ought to be doing something about this," sighed Professor McGonagall.

"Ignore it, it'll go away. Ooh, shiny!" Harry put his thoughts of world conquest temporarily on hold and skipped over to a shop with an open display, and Professor McGonagall followed.

I think that an evil child genius plotting to take over the world may in the right circumstances be entertaining, but this particular smug know-it-all Harry is just so unpleasant to read that it sucks all the potential joy out of the story. Are there any good (original, non-fanfiction) stories about an evil child overlord or overlord wannabe?

JosephWongKS fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Mar 2, 2015

# ? Mar 2, 2015 09:33

Seraphic Neoman: Jul 19, 2011

quote:

Again, seems like the author is speaking of himself in this case. Has he claimed to be a child prodigy and/or a genius in his other writings?

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

quote:

I think that an evil child genius plotting to take over the world may in the right circumstances be entertaining, but this particular smug know-it-all Harry is just so unpleasant to read that it sucks all the potential joy out of the story.

...Wow this sentence just made it click for me.

This fanfiction is basically an insufferable, low-rent version of Artemis Fowl. Holy poo poo how did I never notice this? :aaaaa:

Then again, not even Art was THIS much of a shithead.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 09:49

reignonyourparade: Nov 15, 2012

JosephWongKS posted:

The Pouch of Holding shouldn�t have responded to �okane�, though. �Okane� is Japanese for �money�; for �gold� he should have said �kin�.

Well, giving everything else it's doing I'm sure the pouch responds just as well to "bag of money" as it does to "bag of gold."

# ? Mar 2, 2015 10:53

cptn_dr: Sep 7, 2011; Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies

JosephWongKS posted:

I think that an evil child genius plotting to take over the world may in the right circumstances be entertaining, but this particular smug know-it-all Harry is just so unpleasant to read that it sucks all the potential joy out of the story. Are there any good (original, non-fanfiction) stories about an evil child overlord or overlord wannabe?

There's This series by Catherine Jinks, though I only ever read the first one, and I read it ten years ago. So I can't speak for its quality.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 11:22

Night10194: Feb 13, 2012; We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

JosephWongKS posted:

Again, seems like the author is speaking of himself in this case. Has he claimed to be a child prodigy and/or a genius in his other writings?

This is basically one of the core beliefs of his blog, yes.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:03

Qwertycoatl: Dec 31, 2008

JosephWongKS posted:

Again, seems like the author is speaking of himself in this case. Has he claimed to be a child prodigy and/or a genius in his other writings?

Yes. I can't find it now, but he claims the only reason he hasn't achieved great things is that he's too lazy, and getting himself off his rear end is a superpower he can only use once before it destroys him.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 20:49

i81icu812: Dec 5, 2006

SSNeoman posted:

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

...Wow this sentence just made it click for me.

This fanfiction is basically an insufferable, low-rent version of Artemis Fowl. Holy poo poo how did I never notice this?
Then again, not even Art was THIS much of a shithead.

Basically.

Now I'm morbidly curious to see how Hermione is characterized. I can anyone be a bigger insufferable knowitall than Harry?

JWKS:The Artimis Fowl series is more or less is what you asked for. Assuming you want YA Fiction. Pretty much any evil child overlord will be YA Fiction anyway.

# ? Mar 2, 2015 23:12

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

I wish every argument Harry had would end with someone slapping him and saying, "It's loving magic, dipshit."

# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:27

petrol blue: Feb 9, 2013; sugar and spice
and
ethanol slammers

"Yer a loving wizard, Harry."

# ? Mar 3, 2015 00:50

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 04:19

Added Space: Jul 13, 2012; Free Markets
Free People

Curse you Hayard-Gunnes!

Added Space posted:

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/5782108/113/Harry-Potter-and-the-Methods-of-Rationality

In the latest chapter big Yud has given his readers a challenge. Oldy Voldy has kidnapped Harry Potter and has him stripped naked and surrounded. How will our hero get out of this one?

I pose the same challenge with the exception of changing rule #2. Several major plot point comes from pulling a forced interpretation right out of the author's rear end, so feel free to come up with a ridiculously forced rational explanation for why Harry now has a Gatling Gun that fires cursed cats or any other ridiculous last-minute save.

A forum upgrade of your choice will be given to the best response (provided they're not all crap).

Just a reminder, this contest runs for another 24 hours.

Davros1 posted:

I wish every argument Harry had would end with someone slapping him and saying, "It's loving magic, dipshit."

Eh, this is like saying if you're flying in an airplane you shouldn't be surprised to look out the window and see a griffin flying next to you. Responding that both fly "with their wings" doesn't really resolve the problem.

# ? Mar 3, 2015 01:09

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Let's Read: "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality"

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