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suburban virgin
Jul 26, 2007
Highly qualified lurker.
A lot of the issues people are having with this movie are, in my opinion, dumb as poo poo. It's not leftist enough or it's not rightist enough or it's not environmentalist enough or it's message or philosophy is incoherent or wrong or blah blah blah. You're missing the point. The movie is a chaotic, riotous mess on purpose. The people in this thread stroking their beards and polishing their art-literature degrees by claiming the movie doesn't make enough sense for them to nail an expected message to are myopic to the point of blindness. The Kingsmen are both heroic figures keeping the world safe from harm and agents of a repressive class structure. Valentine is both the only guy paying attention to the world being hosed and a genocidal maniac. The people signing up with him are cowardly, villainous, fearful, and again, the only people taking any kind of action on the impending end of humanity. The film ends with a total breakdown in society, mass-murder on an unseen scale, and afterwards everyone goes to the pub because it's all fine. Global warming is still about to end civilization. This is by design.

I don't know how you people keep missing this.

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mysterious frankie
Jan 11, 2009

This displeases Dev- ..van. Shut up.

sassassin posted:

I enjoyed the film on more levels than you did. My enjoyment was more thorough, and I continue to enjoy it by thinking about it more, now and in the future.

You have dismissed the film as silly, and not worth your thought. You've taken one bite from the sandwich and then thrown it away. There are kids starving in Africa.

Quoting this in case you realize what a revved up loving twonk you sound like and try to edit your post. G'bless.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Fargo Fukes posted:

and afterwards everyone goes to the pub because it's all fine.

That's a strange reading of the scene. Our new Kingsman goes to that pub to right a wrong and rescue his mother. Not all is right in the world.

It also deliberately re-establishes the old social order by having him mimic Colin Firth's actions. If the old world was broken ("being hosed" as you put it) then what does this say about the new one?

I don't see the rest of the movie as a "chaotic, riotous mess" tbh. It's all very consistent, if perhaps a little too British to conform to typical American cinematic Class order.

buddhanc
Feb 16, 2010

sassassin posted:

Anti-intellectualism worn as a badge of pride. You're everything that's wrong with the world.

you sound smart

wanna fool around?

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

sassassin posted:

That's a strange reading of the scene. Our new Kingsman goes to that pub to right a wrong and rescue his mother. Not all is right in the world.

It also deliberately re-establishes the old social order by having him mimic Colin Firth's actions. If the old world was broken ("being hosed" as you put it) then what does this say about the new one?

I don't see the rest of the movie as a "chaotic, riotous mess" tbh. It's all very consistent, if perhaps a little too British to conform to typical American cinematic Class order.

He's explicitly different from everyone else in a Kingsman suit. He refuses to kill the dog. This is consistent with him refusing to run over another animal near the beginning of the film. To him, the boundary of superior/inferior is nonsense. Colin Firth says that great quote from Hemingway about nobility, but Eggsy is living it.
Dismissing everything else that happens in the film and basing your reading on the suit is myopic at best. There's lots of reasons to wear a suit. For a start, a well cut suit is loving boss.

starkebn
May 18, 2004

"Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

Snowman_McK posted:

He's explicitly different from everyone else in a Kingsman suit. He refuses to kill the dog. This is consistent with him refusing to run over another animal near the beginning of the film. To him, the boundary of superior/inferior is nonsense. Colin Firth says that great quote from Hemingway about nobility, but Eggsy is living it.
Dismissing everything else that happens in the film and basing your reading on the suit is myopic at best. There's lots of reasons to wear a suit. For a start, a well cut suit is loving boss.

I just didn't like the film because the tone and pacing were all over the place. You've got the opening with silliness and drama, then too much of the movie on the training, then the Church scene which doesn't match the rest of the tone at all, then the third act goes into Bond mode whackiness and there's a bunch of questions that easily come to mind that aren't covered.

very slick production but C-grade script

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Snowman_McK posted:

He's explicitly different from everyone else in a Kingsman suit. He refuses to kill the dog. This is consistent with him refusing to run over another animal near the beginning of the film. To him, the boundary of superior/inferior is nonsense. Colin Firth says that great quote from Hemingway about nobility, but Eggsy is living it.
Dismissing everything else that happens in the film and basing your reading on the suit is myopic at best. There's lots of reasons to wear a suit. For a start, a well cut suit is loving boss.

I'm not dismissing everything else that happens in the film. The final scene in the pub stands out due to the contrast with everything that has come before.

The film doesn't spend time explaining all the various advantages of a suit, rather it establishes it as a uniform for the Gentleman. And it's not just the suit, it's the precise mimicry of a mentor-figure that Eggsy had until then had significant differences from. As you say, he does not kill the dog. His values are not Colin Firth's values.

One might argue that Eggsy is merely using the weaponry of the upper classes to wage his own private war, which he definitely does, and Firth's manner is a part of that, but he's also taken the man's job at the tailors, and has bought a posh new house. It's more than just a show, he's genuinely Upper Class and beating down the poors at the end. Very American dream, actually.

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

sassassin posted:

I'm not dismissing everything else that happens in the film. The final scene in the pub stands out due to the contrast with everything that has come before.

The film doesn't spend time explaining all the various advantages of a suit, rather it establishes it as a uniform for the Gentleman. And it's not just the suit, it's the precise mimicry of a mentor-figure that Eggsy had until then had significant differences from. As you say, he does not kill the dog. His values are not Colin Firth's values.

One might argue that Eggsy is merely using the weaponry of the upper classes to wage his own private war, which he definitely does, and Firth's manner is a part of that, but he's also taken the man's job at the tailors, and has bought a posh new house. It's more than just a show, he's genuinely Upper Class and beating down the poors at the end. Very American dream, actually.

So he's still defined by the uniform, instead of, by his very existence, redefining what the uniform means. I maintain that this reading is myopic at best.

Also, he's not beating up poors. He's beating up criminals who specifically assaulted his mother.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

Snowman_McK posted:

So he's still defined by the uniform, instead of, by his very existence, redefining what the uniform means.

Redefining it by mimicking exactly the actions of his predecessor?

The status of those men as criminals doesn't really matter when Eggsy is, himself, a criminal (who only escaped punishment due to his family connections).

Harime Nui
Apr 15, 2008

The New Insincerity
I just rewatched the movie with my folks and I don't see the "chip on its shoulder" at all, TBH. I swear I watched this movie and I just don't get what people think is so edgy or objectionable about it. It's a goofy, toyetic superhero-spy mashup that's about having fun with dumb genre tropes. I'd be fine with letting my 10 year old watch this p. much.

And the Big loving Colin Firth Fight Scene owns, so there. So what if it's gimmicky? Gimmicks can be fun.

sassassin posted:

The status of those men as criminals doesn't really matter when Eggsy is, himself, a criminal (who only escaped punishment due to his family connections).

Hey bub, lemme tell ya: when justice is outlawed, the just..... must become outlaws.

Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jul 31, 2015

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

Something I noticed regarding the films odd relationship with class politics. All the kingsman wear glasses like Harry Palmer, including Michael Caine himself to ram it home. Except Palmer and Caines thing were always supposed to be that he was a gritty, working class spy in contrast to bond. It's a strange irony to have Caine, still doing his gruff cockney accent representing "the establishment".

massive spider fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 31, 2015

Harime Nui
Apr 15, 2008

The New Insincerity
I think the idea albeit unstated is, Arthur's actually a working-class guy himself who, having found success and power, has become the biggest snob of all.

LionYeti
Oct 12, 2008


He's the nouveau riche he has money and influence but he doesn't have the wisdom to know what to do with it.

thehomemaster
Jul 16, 2014

by Ralp
So was this movie as terrible as it looked?

My parents went to see it because Colin Firth, and hated it, and I'm not surprised.

Why is there even a thread for it?

Snowman_McK
Jan 31, 2010

sassassin posted:

Redefining it by mimicking exactly the actions of his predecessor?
Except he doesn't mimic the actions of his predecessors. As I've pointed out, several times.

quote:

The status of those men as criminals doesn't really matter when Eggsy is, himself, a criminal (who only escaped punishment due to his family connections).
"a criminal like the others" is exactly the way a reactionary would paint him.

Stealing the car of a wife beater's associate does not make one as morally culpable as being that wife beater or his associate. Context is kind of important.

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

thehomemaster posted:

So was this movie as terrible as it looked?

My parents went to see it because Colin Firth, and hated it, and I'm not surprised.

Why is there even a thread for it?

Perhaps the movie is actually cool, and good?

Krowley
Feb 15, 2008

thehomemaster posted:

So was this movie as terrible as it looked?

My parents went to see it because Colin Firth, and hated it, and I'm not surprised.

Why is there even a thread for it?

It's fun and decent enough for a comic-book movie. Wouldn't pay to see it in the cinema though

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006

thehomemaster posted:

So was this movie as terrible as it looked?

My parents went to see it because Colin Firth, and hated it, and I'm not surprised.

Why is there even a thread for it?

Are you asking the thread to have an opinion on your behalf?

sassassin
Apr 3, 2010

by Azathoth

massive spider posted:

Are you asking the thread to have an opinion on your behalf?

Isn't that what the forum is for? Rating films out of 10 so we can all know how good they are?

Joey Freshwater
Jun 20, 2004

Always playing with my meat
Grimey Drawer
I didn't see it mentioned but could have missed it:

I've seen this movie 3 times now and finally caught the bit at the end when he asks Merlin for the code to the Princess's cell: 2625

On an alphanumerical keypad 2625 spells ANAL. Look at your phone's dial keypad

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Femur
Jan 10, 2004
I REALLY NEED TO SHUT THE FUCK UP

Snowman_McK posted:

Stealing the car of a wife beater's associate does not make one as morally culpable as being that wife beater or his associate. Context is kind of important.

But that is the point, his mommy is all that he is responsible for, not the people he endangered on his joy ride to massage his ego.

The end illustrates the same thing. He locks the place and only those he allows can go on to better things. No one is allowed change, there is no compassion from him, like Firth. Blood is all that matters.

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