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CrashCat posted:It's still giving too much credit to the writer to even analyze it that deep if you ask me, but I do like what you wrote there. I just think it's probably largely accidental that it arranges that way. Like everything just gets so ridiculous I just assumed it was set up for entertainment and not to form any real stand on anything. Everyone is hosed up one way or another and even the good guys are bad guys. Yeah, I'm sure the writers of this movie put less though into their work than some random people who paid $10 to post on an internet forum.
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Jun 17, 2015 14:10
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CrashCat posted:There's a lot of work put in to this movie to parody a lot of classic spy movie bits, I think it's likely the emphasis is on that and not some political message. What film was it parodying when Obama's head explodes to a triumphant score? You're doing the film and its makers an incredible disservice when you claim that their work is incapable of having a political message.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:04
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The Kingsmen do not prevent the cull, they merely ensure that those who agree to its necessity are first against the wall, transforming it from an act of selfishness to a moral sacrifice for the good of the people. What makes Sam Jackson villainous is that he planned primarily for his own survival through the event.
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Jun 17, 2015 16:09
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You are complaining that the villain who successfully murdered millions of people wasn't funny?
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Jun 18, 2015 21:55
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Harime Nui posted:Christ, he gave him a nice suit because nice suits are nice (also, they are body armor). I don't think Eggsy was somehow immune to the charms of a well-fitted three piece. It doesn't mean he's going to start reading The Telegraph and demanding the bulldozing of council estates. Eggsy's final act in the film is not to reunite with his two mates from the start - whom he was wiling to go to jail to protect - but to rescue his mum from her boyfriend and move her to a new house away from the council estate. The emphasis is on separation from his roots (his mum had merely been corrupted: a victim, not a cause). He speaks without his old accent. He carries an umbrella even though it's not raining. He is a poser just like Firth and Caine, hiding violent intent to control beneath a "sophisticated" front.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:05
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Did that girl drown or not? He's only told that "oh, no one actually dies" after falling out of the program. We never see her (or a living dog) again. Once he's outside the inner circle, the front of sophistication gets put back up, its terrible heart hidden.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:15
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Harime Nui posted:You are missing the point by a mile---his roots are not that abusive guy and the council estate. His roots are his dad who was a working-class dude that nevertheless did a ton to save Britain from her enemies. I mean, the movie doesn't say being an uneducated goober is good because that's not good. I don't even know what else to say to your argument. Also, I missed any change in his accent, the umbrella is a bullet shield, and yeah Firth was his mentor. You are totally misreading the movie if you think Eggsy sacrifices "his roots" or something. Why does he need a bullet shield? Why does he need to start a fight? Eggsy embraces the teachings of his mentor; a bad person who killed a lot of people for a secret cabal of assassins. Harime Nui posted:She didn't drown, the bullets in the dog test were blanks. No one's life was really at risk, but they did everything they could to make the recruits think it was. This is told by professional spies/secret cabal of assassins to a now non-member. How did she not drown? The room literally filled with water and she was pretty clearly dead.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:45
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The majority of the movie doesn't give the impression that he's abandoning his roots. It's just the final scene that seems incongruous to everything we've seen before.
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Jun 19, 2015 11:51
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Harime Nui posted:As to your second... Colin Firth's character is a good man who raises people up on talent over social connections. In what way is he at all a bad man?? Do you feel that the Kingsman organisation were good men? They were murderers, secret police operating without oversight, an archaic and corrupt entity that was justly destroyed over the course of the film. The whole film leads up to Eggsy appropriating the tools of the upper class in order to wipe it out, making sure that the people that saw the cull as necessary were also the first victims of it (transforming the act from immoral to moral, rather than actually stopping it).
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Jun 19, 2015 13:36
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GORDON posted:There is literally a line at the end of the movie that states she was from the Kingsman data center in Germany, and was just acting dead. But can we trust the newly inducted agent who says that? She did just tey to murder her dog, possibly successfully.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:05
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coathat posted:The cull was nessicary and now the human race is doomed to extinction. The cull was successful. Every conspirator and however many people can die in 10 minutes of carnage died.
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Jun 19, 2015 19:07
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Snowman_McK posted:Sassassin feels like someone took SMG's ball, dropped it down a well, then kept running, insisting it was still there. Arts degrees ftw.
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Jun 20, 2015 09:21
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jabby posted:I think one of the dumbest things about Kingsman training is that first lesson is supposedly how your comrades are everything and that working together and protecting each other is paramount. Then the last lesson is to kill your bestest dog buddy because we told you to. Are they trying to raise cold emotionless killers or tightly knit team-mates? Pick one! The Kingsman organisation are not good people. They are hypocritical and corrupt and are justly killed off so that only the outliers remain (chav, girl, scot). Is it sexist to include the girl there? Yeah. She was willing to kill her dog, too. Posh girls are monsters.
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Jul 20, 2015 09:35
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buddhanc posted:I laughed alot and enjoyed the movie. Some of you are way too loving serious about this stuff. It must be really terrible to not be able to sit and enjoy a silly movie without finding some sort of hidden meaning and analyzing every little loving scene. It must be terrible to watch something for an hour and a half + and not be able to have any thoughts beyond laughing at the loud noises and pretty colours. How dare people analyse every scene? Don't they know some scenes don't mean anything at all, and are just put in by accident?
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Jul 23, 2015 09:30
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Anti-intellectualism worn as a badge of pride. You're everything that's wrong with the world.
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Jul 23, 2015 09:33
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Goast posted:How does enjoying a silly action film make you everything that is wrong with the world? I enjoyed the film on more levels than you did. My enjoyment was more thorough, and I continue to enjoy it by thinking about it more, now and in the future. You have dismissed the film as silly, and not worth your thought. You've taken one bite from the sandwich and then thrown it away. There are kids starving in Africa.
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Jul 23, 2015 13:57
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Fargo Fukes posted:and afterwards everyone goes to the pub because it's all fine. That's a strange reading of the scene. Our new Kingsman goes to that pub to right a wrong and rescue his mother. Not all is right in the world. It also deliberately re-establishes the old social order by having him mimic Colin Firth's actions. If the old world was broken ("being hosed" as you put it) then what does this say about the new one? I don't see the rest of the movie as a "chaotic, riotous mess" tbh. It's all very consistent, if perhaps a little too British to conform to typical American cinematic Class order.
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Jul 23, 2015 18:28
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Snowman_McK posted:He's explicitly different from everyone else in a Kingsman suit. He refuses to kill the dog. This is consistent with him refusing to run over another animal near the beginning of the film. To him, the boundary of superior/inferior is nonsense. Colin Firth says that great quote from Hemingway about nobility, but Eggsy is living it. I'm not dismissing everything else that happens in the film. The final scene in the pub stands out due to the contrast with everything that has come before. The film doesn't spend time explaining all the various advantages of a suit, rather it establishes it as a uniform for the Gentleman. And it's not just the suit, it's the precise mimicry of a mentor-figure that Eggsy had until then had significant differences from. As you say, he does not kill the dog. His values are not Colin Firth's values. One might argue that Eggsy is merely using the weaponry of the upper classes to wage his own private war, which he definitely does, and Firth's manner is a part of that, but he's also taken the man's job at the tailors, and has bought a posh new house. It's more than just a show, he's genuinely Upper Class and beating down the poors at the end. Very American dream, actually.
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Jul 24, 2015 09:53
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Snowman_McK posted:So he's still defined by the uniform, instead of, by his very existence, redefining what the uniform means. Redefining it by mimicking exactly the actions of his predecessor? The status of those men as criminals doesn't really matter when Eggsy is, himself, a criminal (who only escaped punishment due to his family connections).
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Jul 28, 2015 14:47
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thehomemaster posted:So was this movie as terrible as it looked? Perhaps the movie is actually cool, and good?
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Aug 7, 2015 09:49
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massive spider posted:Are you asking the thread to have an opinion on your behalf? Isn't that what the forum is for? Rating films out of 10 so we can all know how good they are?
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Aug 7, 2015 12:11
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