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Soul Glo posted:Just seems weird from an relatively outsider perspective: I followed wrestling as a kid into the Attitude Era a bit and have paid relatively little attention to it over the years. There seems to be a constant deluge of criticism coming at WWE while also holding it as the standard against stuff like Ring of Honor and New Japan (I've been listening to the Power Bombcast That at least is not WWE's fault. In a world where a photo can be across the world in a matter of minutes Kayfabe can't be maintained at all. But what you can do is just accept it. We know magic isn't real but you don't see people pointing at the magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat and scream "IT'S NOT REAL" so all you have left is people ability to be a performer. You have to be pretty dumb to be legit angry, but frustration is passable.
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Feb 23, 2015 08:24
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It's a TV show, not a televised sport. The current product feels fractured because there's very little consistency in presentation. Real world events are constantly shoehorned into the storylines to maintain an illusion of realism, alongside stuff like Bray's thing on Fastlane. Like, every real injury a person gets has a fictional explanation behind it, meanwhile some guy is doing magic and another guy is from space. Would it be so hard to just say "hey this person is off the show because they were injured while performing"? Would that hurt anything? The whole goal right now with the product seems to be intentionally blurring lines, but it's really clumsy imo. Under the vegetable fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Feb 23, 2015 |
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Feb 23, 2015 08:34
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It's the classic problem with nostalgia. Music wasn't better back in the day, the oldies station just has the benefit of however many years of hindsight and just plays the stuff that stood the test of time.
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Feb 23, 2015 08:37
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Soul Glo posted:I've been following wrestling for a month in that I've had RAW on in the background on Hulu Plus twice, listened to a few wrestling podcasts and followed SA's threads on it. The last time it was this bad was roughly 2006, by my reckoning.
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Feb 23, 2015 09:16
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Just finished watching the recommended bits. Tyson Kidd was awesome and I'm elated he and Cesaro got recognition for just how good they've been lately. Even the Usos mixed things up a little bit. Fun match. Nikki has actually significantly improved, she could have a really good match with Paige if they had more than 5 minutes and it didn't end with a loving rollup. I found Cena/Rusev to be a bit slow. It was super weird to see Cena selling. It was a decent hoss-off. Man, that main event was weird as poo poo. Bryan as the super-over face wrestling heel-style against less-over face/tweener Roman wrestling as Cena. That's the best I've ever seen Reigns though, dude looked like a million bucks. The only problem is that Daniel Bryan looked like a billion bucks and was loving phenomenal. He could probably carry a literal sack of potatoes to a 4 star match. Absolutely loving insane how good he is. I'm sad to see the Knee That Beat John Cena get less protected though, that's a drat shame. My biggest concern is how the hell is Roman going to have a decent match with Brock? He can't toss Brock around, Brock is nearly twice Bryan's size. He can't out-power him, he can't out-wrestle him, he can't out-tough him. There doesn't seem to be a logical end to this other than Ooooaaaaauuuughadooing over him (however the gently caress his stupid warcry is). Either that or him almost winning, then Seth cashing in on a depleted Brock and leaving with the belt. Also, is it just me or were those ring-post cameras new and very distracting? Took me a couple of matches to figure out what was wrong with the ring posts. They only used a shot from it once that I saw.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:04
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I'm happy Rusef won, I pretty much predicted everything else and found it so boring I fell asleep and had to rewatch half the PPV on the network. I don't know what to think of Taker v Bray I like them both but I have a feeling Bray will lose to Taker because he lost the streak last year. When really Bray could do with winning and kind of taking over the Takers side of things (i.e a new streak) I would have prefered Sting v Taker because as much as I like HHH I really aint interested in watching him fight Sting. Something has to be done really I know people keep saying it but why the gently caress is the "developmental" product more entertaining, exciting and at a higher quality than the main product 
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Feb 23, 2015 10:06
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VoLaTiLe posted:Something has to be done really I know people keep saying it but why the gently caress is the "developmental" product more entertaining, exciting and at a higher quality than the main product Because it's only an hour a week. I mean the format is essentially WCW Saturday Night, which is funny to me cause we look back on shows like that and say "lol how corny". The difference of course being the level of talent. I think it was one of SCSA podcasts where someone said, it's pure wrestling without the BS. The other shows have too much time to fill and try to be variety shows, NXT is just, here's 3-4 matches and maybe 2 promos, that's it.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:13
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A Lamer posted:other than the side effect of cena consistently being made overly strong because he's so locked in with the kids, I'm not really sure this can be levied as a complaint. pre pg era gave us such gems as: divas being exclusively sexual objects above and beyond what they are today, rape angles, weirdos getting hardons because by god that man intentionally shoved a razor into his flesh boy howdy what a match what a match Agreed. Some of the retrospectives from Monday Night Wars make me wince at how pandering and stupid it was back then. WWE is way more watchable for me now (even though you still get stuff like Grumpy Cat and Larry the Cable Guy from time to time) - just don't watch RAW and catch NXT.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:31
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AlmightyPants posted:Man, that main event was weird as poo poo. Bryan as the super-over face wrestling heel-style against less-over face/tweener Roman wrestling as Cena. That's the best I've ever seen Reigns though, dude looked like a million bucks. The only problem is that Daniel Bryan looked like a billion bucks and was loving phenomenal. He could probably carry a literal sack of potatoes to a 4 star match. Absolutely loving insane how good he is. I'm sad to see the Knee That Beat John Cena get less protected though, that's a drat shame. Basically, it's why they were considering a triple-threat match because even though it can still be scripted you'd have Bryan in there to call spots as well and generally help. As it is now it's just going to be a heavily scripted main event, unless they want Brock to call it which they won't, and which he probably won't want to either. Reigns' 2 best singles matches have been with Orton and Bryan, and both times it's because they've made him look great. I can't see him getting that with Brock and I can't see the crowd getting behind him either. Reigns is going to be the face and the crowd is so going to be behind Brock that it puts WWE in this weird position of maybe trying to switch them with a turn before Wrestlemania, otherwise it's going to be such a mixed crowd.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:38
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A Lamer posted:divas are still in really bad shape (and will be as long as being a good looking, bitchy drama queen is a more important trait than being able to wrestle) but the paige locker room angle where her clothes got stolen and she had to improvise isn't really on the same level as trish stratus half naked and made to bark in the ring or the implied in ring sex between lita and edge. people bleed because some people can't wrestle and it's still a very physical performance despite all of the fakery and safety precautions, rather than throwing each other onto thumb tacks or intentionally raking razors across their foreheads, or otherwise beating each other half to death until they're so mentally bruised that they commit murder suicides. I'm really glad WWE seems to be past the worst of the bullshit divas stuff from the Attitude Era, but then every once in a while they'll do something like Eve is a hoeski or the dumb as gently caress AJ/Cena affair or hiring Eva Marie and giving her 2 weeks of training.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:47
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AlmightyPants posted:My biggest concern is how the hell is Roman going to have a decent match with Brock? He can't toss Brock around, Brock is nearly twice Bryan's size. He can't out-power him, he can't out-wrestle him, he can't out-tough him. To that point, why did they think it was a good idea for a big tough powerhouse wrestler to fight like a big tough powerhouse wrestler against a guy who absolutely dwarfs him? If Reigns took the belt off, say, Cena in his long-inevitable Flair-surpassing championship run, people might actually like him and believe in him.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:58
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Even now it's not even close to as bad as it was in '08-mid 2011.
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Feb 23, 2015 12:30
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DEAR RICHARD posted:Is it just me or did Bryan carry that entire match? Reigns looked bad. I though it was reigns best singles match yet. He looked really good and us da lot of power moves I haven't seen from him. The problem is jus conditioning sucked and the crowd didn't care.
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Feb 23, 2015 12:57
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I feel like this match did the best job of making people accept the main event of Wrestlemania as it possibly could have.
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Feb 23, 2015 14:17
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Cyberball 2072 posted:Because it's only an hour a week. I mean the format is essentially WCW Saturday Night, which is funny to me cause we look back on shows like that and say "lol how corny". The difference of course being the level of talent. I think it was one of SCSA podcasts where someone said, it's pure wrestling without the BS. They also don't put the same talent on TV every single week, which avoids putting them in the same matches where nothing seems fresh anymore. And then after a year or two they are off NXT and up to the main roster. I personally tune out of the current product on Raw because I am so tires of seeing the same matches every single week. New combinations of Big Show/Kane/Rollins/J&J vs. Cena/Ziggler/Rowan/Ryaback does nothing for me. Just look at how fresh Lesnar feels simple because they don't have him on TV each and every week.
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Feb 23, 2015 14:20
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El Generico posted:I feel like this match did the best job of making people accept the main event of Wrestlemania as it possibly could have. It did, but it still won't be enough
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Feb 23, 2015 15:02
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El Generico posted:I feel like this match did the best job of making people accept the main event of Wrestlemania as it possibly could have. I mean it was probably the best they could have done with Reigns winning, and it was a good match, but I just felt like Bryan kind of made him look like a chump even though Reigns won. Most of what Reigns did was reversed, Bryan slapped him in the head during holds and until he kicked out of the knee Roman looked like he was getting clowned and out wrestled and outsmarted nonstop. Didn't really make him look like a contender to a guy that can stick you in a lock and break you + also dust your bones by staring real hard. Then again, spear! Spear! Spear can solve all problems
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Feb 23, 2015 15:28
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MotU posted:I mean it was probably the best they could have done with Reigns winning, and it was a good match, but I just felt like Bryan kind of made him look like a chump even though Reigns won. Most of what Reigns did was reversed, Bryan slapped him in the head during holds and until he kicked out of the knee Roman looked like he was getting clowned and out wrestled and outsmarted nonstop. Didn't really make him look like a contender to a guy that can stick you in a lock and break you + also dust your bones by staring real hard. Then again, spear! Spear! Spear can solve all problems I feel like this was the best approach though. If Reigns made Bryan look like a chump the fans would've been pissed and you wouldn't have gotten anywhere. The story is "Bryan is indeed a better wrestler but Roman is bigger and tougher and has some really impactful power moves so he squeaked out a win" and that's basically the best story to tell in that match if Roman has to go over.
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Feb 23, 2015 17:49
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Cyberball 2072 posted:Because it's only an hour a week. I mean the format is essentially WCW Saturday Night, which is funny to me cause we look back on shows like that and say "lol how corny". The difference of course being the level of talent. I think it was one of SCSA podcasts where someone said, it's pure wrestling without the BS. TV time has nothing to do with it. NXT's goal is to make the talent look good, because the more successful wrestlers it produces the better it is for the staff. The goal of WWE booking is to please Vince McMahon, and Vince cares about the Brand. WWE could go back to 2 hours of primetime TV a week and maybe it would be more watchable but you'd still end up with shows like Fastlane. This poo poo is by design. They've spent the last 15+ years trying to build a company that is bigger than any one star, which is understandable, but I'm not sure they could have done a worse job of executing that plan. Everyone on the roster, aside from Rusev and Rollins, is worse off than they were a year ago, and they had to shoot 8+ hours of TV back then too. They're even calling loving John Cena old on TV now, and I can't help but think it's because he got a role in a real-deal movie and they're scared it might hit big and he'll pull a Rock -- remember, Rocky didn't leave in 2004 cuz he thought he was too big for the business; they let his loving contract expire because Vince didn't approve of him playing a gay dude in that Get Shorty sequel. I mean, they keep doing angles where wrestlers get fired, angles where they're portrayed as loving morons unable to save or earn money outside the WWE Universe. That's Vince's wet dream. There's a reason why the last 17 years of TV focused on a dominating heel promoters. There's a reason they don't pull the trigger on guys who aren't fully "theirs". There's a reason why they're using their doctor as a proxy to sue CM Punk. Vince can be a petty piece of poo poo and still make tons of money. He may have left even more money on the table, but he gets to have his little power trips so who cares. Current WWE reminds me a lot of late '97 WCW. I'd gotten into wrestling the year before and I was so loving hyped for Hogan vs. Sting. It was the main thrust of the show since I started watching and I was naive enough to believe that Hogan was finally going to get his comeuppance and 1998 would be dominated by Sting and Bret Hart. Then Sting got pinned clean and Bret Hart disputed it. They looked like whiny boobs, and I felt like a boob for ever caring about this poo poo. I still watched WCW for a few months after that but my enthusiasm was gone. I'd learned that, unlike almost all other popular entertainment, wrestling might not deliver the payoff I'd been promised. Had I not discovered that the internet had the scoops I definitely would have stopped following the sport; learning why all these terrible moves were made is usually more intriguing than anything they put on TV. Without that knowledge I would have drifted off, like nearly everyone else I've known who liked wrestling -- they all had a breaking point, and it was always when a payoff was denied or someone died. These people don't make use of angry hashtags. They just stop watching. So yeah, the people saying they're going to cancel are probably full of hot air, and WWE isn't going anywhere, but I really think they're reaching a point where they're turning off more people than they're drawing in. OneThousandMonkeys posted:The last time it was this bad was roughly 2006, by my reckoning. It's depressing how many parallels there are between the booking of Misterio and Bryan. Rey and Eddy shoulda been the new Austin/Rock, but since it appealed to a demographic Vince didn't understand they never pulled the trigger. And oh yeah Eddy died too that really sucked.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:12
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DrVenkman posted:Basically, it's why they were considering a triple-threat match because even though it can still be scripted you'd have Bryan in there to call spots as well and generally help. As it is now it's just going to be a heavily scripted main event, unless they want Brock to call it which they won't, and which he probably won't want to either. Brock can actually call a decent match. He carried Taker last year, and I thought he called the HHH match as well. Usually the heels call the matches.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:22
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Big Poppa posted:Brock can actually call a decent match. He carried Taker last year, and I thought he called the HHH match as well. Usually the heels call the matches. The only person callin' a modern Triple H match is Triple H. I can't imagine it ever being otherwise. Pretty sure he was even calling his match with Bryan at WM30. Just like how Cena calls all his matches, really loudly and obviously sometimes. The camera got him clearly having a conversation with Rusev last night and the announcers had to play it off as him talking to himself.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:26
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Le Saboteur posted:The only person callin' a modern Triple H match is Triple H. I can't imagine it ever being otherwise. Pretty sure he was even calling his match with Bryan at WM30. It definitely could be. But I'm pretty sure he's called some of the matches since his return. Anyways, my point is that Brock knows what he's doing psychologically out there.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:28
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I like the WCW comparison. Geezers hogging the main spots and the guys the crowd really want to succeed are ignored or buried. You want Bryan? Too bad here's reigns. Same thing in WCW you want flair? Sorry please enjoy Kevin Nash instead.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:29
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Like with sting last night, prior to his signing I was excited about the obvious sting taker match even though it would be garbage. Now they've done everything possible to make me not give a poo poo about sting or hhh.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:30
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Bigass Moth posted:Like with sting last night, prior to his signing I was excited about the obvious sting taker match even though it would be garbage. Now they've done everything possible to make me not give a poo poo about sting or hhh. The Sting build has been so weird when you really think about it. He came back to help Team Cena win the Survivor Series match, then helped Ziggler and friends get their jobs back. Why? Apparently to gently caress with HHH, because... HHH killed WCW now? I am confused. It would have been so simple, have Sting want to face Taker because it's the match people always wanted to see in the Attitude Era. Sting wants to finally face Taker to see who the man is, end of story.
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Feb 23, 2015 18:45
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If they are going to just have Triple H bury Sting on the mic they should maybe give Sting something to say in response. Why we are talking about WCW in TYOOL 2015 instead of hyping an actual match is anybody's guess, but Vince's bitterness at WCW forcing him to modernize seems to know no bounds. Sting lazily giving death drops to Triple H has also been pretty bad. The Sting build has really sucked and if they were just going to turn him into Mysterious 90's Sting they should have given him the Undertaker, that would be roughly a hundred times better than this.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:01
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I'm assuming they think they can do Sting vs. Taker next year and get one more match out of both guys.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:01
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:If they are going to just have Triple H bury Sting on the mic they should maybe give Sting something to say in response. Sting is not great on the mic though...
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Feb 23, 2015 19:06
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Astro7x posted:Sting is not great on the mic though... Meltzer has been saying that Sting improved a lot on the mic in TNA. I watched a fair bit of TNA and I don't remember that, but maybe there's some great mic work in there I missed. Edit: Or maybe everyone else has gotten shittier and Sting just seems better
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Feb 23, 2015 19:23
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triplexpac posted:Meltzer has been saying that Sting improved a lot on the mic in TNA. I watched a fair bit of TNA and I don't remember that, but maybe there's some great mic work in there I missed. Sting could be Christoph Waltz and I'd still prefer if he was quiet because that's how the character works best
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Feb 23, 2015 19:25
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Bigass Moth posted:I like the WCW comparison. Geezers hogging the main spots and the guys the crowd really want to succeed are ignored or buried. You want Bryan? Too bad here's reigns. Same thing in WCW you want flair? Sorry please enjoy Kevin Nash instead. Kevin Nash is going into the Hall of Fame 24 hours before they give the belt to Reigns and maybe don't even give Bryan a match, and I think that's beautiful
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Feb 23, 2015 19:28
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triplexpac posted:Meltzer has been saying that Sting improved a lot on the mic in TNA. I watched a fair bit of TNA and I don't remember that, but maybe there's some great mic work in there I missed. I recall liking a lot of Joker Sting's mic work in TNA, but part of that is that I love gimmicks that are basically inside jokes with the audience, and "Sting completely changes and becomes a character from a popular movie...AGAIN" is about as great of a throwback inside joke as it gets.
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Feb 23, 2015 19:28
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The WWE Universe reacts to its newest star, Roman Reigns, lighting up Fastlane.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:02
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Well that was fun. See everyone at the next pay-per-view where a bunch of 70 year olds gasp for air in the ring and maybe we see a televised death, which is about what it would take to be worse than Fastlane.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:19
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There was a moment where I did think Reigns was about to kill Bryan on that exploder to the outside.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:24
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Chris James 2 posted:Kevin Nash is going into the Hall of Fame 24 hours before they give the belt to Reigns and maybe don't even give Bryan a match, and I think that's beautiful He deserves it. Biggest draw ever. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fob4r2N-upg 
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Feb 23, 2015 20:48
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To be fair, on pure WWE/WCW merits, Nash is probably sitting as the second-biggest WWE HoF snub after this year's announced class (so far) is put in.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:53
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Kevin Nash is the best of all time I was a legit Diesel mark as a kid and I don't know why vaccines, maybe
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Feb 23, 2015 20:56
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Fastlane was not a good show.
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Feb 23, 2015 20:58
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I've always felt that having 12 PPVs in a year (didn't they do 13 a year at some point?) is a problem. Going back and watching Attitude era stuff I see the same thing; matches from the previous PPV are repeated on the next PPV, with maybe a minor gimmick change. There's no time to properly build up a feud. With PPV being less of a money maker now, what are the odds of them cutting back? Maybe 6 big shows a year; Rumble, Wrestlemania, SummerSlam, Money in the Bank, Survivor Series and TLC or something. Give the feuds time to breath. If they absolutely insist on having 12 a year, make the other 6 minor shows like In Your House used to be.
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