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lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESHBBLeOaqk

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Triangulum
Oct 3, 2007

by Lowtax


brown dog owns imo

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




C it is P cool

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



Do stun batons work on dogs? I know they work on anything that has muscles, but would it work to deter a dog?
There are a couple nasty dogs in my neighborhood. I've never seen one loose but it might happen!

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 25, 2015

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

Every time I see this I'm just like, how is there not one single person in a group of dipshits that big that can break up a dog fight

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

Pit bulls are really easy to own.

Step one: Don't take it around other people's dogs

That's it p much

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

mine just learn to aggressively rape and be raped in lieu of killing



this one is a power bottom.

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."



Sorry you have a terrible owner poo poo bull, a flight of angels sing thee to thy rest. I also like how you can hear what sounds like the pits owner in the back try to blame the other dog for getting bit, lmao this is why joe average shouldn't own pits.

wtftastic fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Feb 25, 2015

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

wtftastic posted:

Sorry you have a terrible owner poo poo bull, a flight of angels sing thee to thy rest. I also like how you can hear what sounds like the pits owner in the back try to blame the other dog for getting bit, lmao this is why joe average shouldn't own pits.

euth everything in this entire video

except the pit bull, probably, because it was just being normal

actually no gently caress it, euth it too because apparently managing dog aggression is harder than defusing a bomb

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

I get FEELs about this video because everyone is yelling at the dog in the end and he literally just did a good job and hung on to that other dogs face and he is sorry for making them yell. He was just doing what he is for.

Come to me, dog child, I will wrap you with my wings and shield you from this oppressive world

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



I have a question about avid pit advocates who insist that they can be great family companions.
Do they have only good experiences with pits and pit mixes, or are they tricking themselves into thinking that when they have a bad experience the dog has a very good reason to act that way? The dog was returning to the shelter for chasing the cat and growling at the kid, the people must have been doing something wrong. Is that really what they say to themselves?

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Feb 25, 2015

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."



Superconsndar posted:

I get FEELs about this video because everyone is yelling at the dog in the end and he literally just did a good job and hung on to that other dogs face and he is sorry for making them yell. He was just doing what he is for.

Come to me, dog child, I will wrap you with my wings and shield you from this oppressive world

That's more or less how I feel too- poor dog's body language was like BUT I DID MY JOB???!!!! and WHY ARE YOU MAD AND SCREAMING AT ME???

I'm like angry with the owner not the dog because it was just doing its thing.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

Pixelated Dragon posted:

I have a question about avid pit advocates who insist that they can be great family companions.
Do they have only good experiences with pits and pit mixes, or are they tricking themselves into thinking that when they have a bad experience the dog has a very good reason to act that way? The dog was returning to the shelter for chasing the cat and growling at the kid, the people must have been doing something wrong. Is that really what they say to themselves?

It's a combination of Everything pretty much

-Sometimes poorly bred pits and some pit mixes end up lacking drive and just never really turn on and people get lucky

-Many dogs had their drive SHUT THE gently caress DOWN and stomped into a nonexistent mist the second it began to develop because people think that is how you manage dog aggression and prey drive. Some of these dogs never end up lashing out. Some do. When they do, yeah, a lot of people tend to blame it on everything on earth but the dog and the fact that they set it up for failure by not giving it outlets or "safe" ways to channel its drive or express its displeasure with other dogs without fearing punishment.

-Any dog that expresses correct drive and levels of drive gets a sob story written for it about how it was abused/a bait dog/waaaah to explain it away as an anomaly occurring in This Abused Individual and not just a breed trait

The cardinal rule for being a pit rescue lady is to speak in sweeping generalities when talking about positive breed traits, and then to hulk the gently caress out if anyone attempts to imply that there is any genetic component to behaviors that are seen as negative. Only good things are inheritable, if the dog that was bred for generations to want to fight other dogs wants to fight other dogs, it was obviously abused in its previous home.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of dogs from fighting busts end up getting returned because rescues lead people to believe this pit bull will be exactly like their aging lab and you just never hear about it. When it eats the aging lab of its new adoptive family, everyone just goes "oh, how sad, this dog was just too abused to be rehabilitated!!"

There's nothing to rehabilitate. It's a pit bull trying to kill another dog. Let's rehabilitate all of the retrievers falsely led to believe that they enjoy jumping in water and carrying ducks, too.

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



Superconsndar posted:

It's a combination of Everything pretty much

-Sometimes poorly bred pits and some pit mixes end up lacking drive and just never really turn on and people get lucky

-Many dogs had their drive SHUT THE gently caress DOWN and stomped into a nonexistent mist the second it began to develop because people think that is how you manage dog aggression and prey drive. Some of these dogs never end up lashing out. Some do. When they do, yeah, a lot of people tend to blame it on everything on earth but the dog and the fact that they set it up for failure by not giving it outlets or "safe" ways to channel its drive or express its displeasure with other dogs without fearing punishment.

-Any dog that expresses correct drive and levels of drive gets a sob story written for it about how it was abused/a bait dog/waaaah to explain it away as an anomaly occurring in This Abused Individual and not just a breed trait

The cardinal rule for being a pit rescue lady is to speak in sweeping generalities when talking about positive breed traits, and then to hulk the gently caress out if anyone attempts to imply that there is any genetic component to behaviors that are seen as negative. Only good things are inheritable, if the dog that was bred for generations to want to fight other dogs wants to fight other dogs, it was obviously abused in its previous home.

Lots and lots and lots and lots of dogs from fighting busts end up getting returned because rescues lead people to believe this pit bull will be exactly like their aging lab and you just never hear about it. When it eats the aging lab of its new adoptive family, everyone just goes "oh, how sad, this dog was just too abused to be rehabilitated!!"

There's nothing to rehabilitate. It's a pit bull trying to kill another dog. Let's rehabilitate all of the retrievers falsely led to believe that they enjoy jumping in water and carrying ducks, too.

It sounds like pit rescue ladies are doing something dangerous and irresponsible by trying to place these dogs in homes with some combination of inexperienced or new dog owners, children, other dogs, and cats. If there's blood shed then it's on the pit rescue ladies. I'm starting to get mad right now just thinking about the weird blame game they play. It's never their fault, it's never the shitbull's fault, it's always the owner's fault or the previous owner's fault or the owner's kid's fault and hopefully the next family they adopt a precious pitbull out to will be better.

A family friend had a shelter pit mix for 14 years and there was never any incident. Honestly he was a good old dog but he was a fluke, not the rule. It's like if I knew someone with a really chill GSD and then told everyone else that they make great first timer dogs because all they do is laze about but I don't think anyone would say that about them. The pitbull martyrdom is weird IDK.

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Feb 25, 2015

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Superconsndar posted:

mine just learn to aggressively rape and be raped in lieu of killing



this one is a power bottom.

I've heard power bottoms set the pace of the session.

c/d?

wtftastic posted:

Sorry you have a terrible owner poo poo bull, a flight of angels sing thee to thy rest. I also like how you can hear what sounds like the pits owner in the back try to blame the other dog for getting bit, lmao this is why joe average shouldn't own pits.

It was an older, dimunitive lady who had it.

Superconsndar posted:

Pit bulls are really easy to own.

Step one: Don't take it around other people's dogs

That's it p much

That can be kind of difficult unless you live out in the sticks.

lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Feb 25, 2015

Triangulum
Oct 3, 2007

by Lowtax


Nah it's not that hard. I don't have pits but none of my dogs can be around other dogs and we manage

Pixelated Dragon posted:

It's like if I knew someone with a really chill GSD and then told everyone else that they make great first timer dogs because all they do is laze about but I don't think anyone would say that about them.

hahahahahahaha

Triangulum fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Feb 25, 2015

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Superconsndar posted:

Every time I see this I'm just like, how is there not one single person in a group of dipshits that big that can break up a dog fight

I wouldn't want to. Trying to get my hands on a snarling, thrashing pit bull would be like trying to reach into a wood chipper to get my watch that fell in. I'd rather just shoot the wood chipper to death with my 9mm pistol that I carry.

Why is a German Shepherd called a GSD? Is it German Shepherd Dog, or German ShepherD? Why are they even called a Shepherd when they're really guard/service dogs?

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



Triangulum posted:

Nah it's not that hard. I don't have pits but none of my dogs can be around other dogs and we manage


hahahahahahaha

I wonder why that's not the reaction people have about pitbulls when pit rescue ladies start saying they're not all like that and they know this because they know one that's friendly.

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I wouldn't want to. Trying to get my hands on a snarling, thrashing pit bull would be like trying to reach into a wood chipper to get my watch that fell in. I'd rather just shoot the wood chipper to death with my 9mm pistol that I carry.

Why is a German Shepherd called a GSD? Is it German Shepherd Dog, or German ShepherD? Why are they even called a Shepherd when they're really guard/service dogs?

They were initially bred for herding sheep. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Shepherd

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 25, 2015

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



Reply is not edit.

Triangulum
Oct 3, 2007

by Lowtax


The 'd' stands for dog, it's kind of redundant because yeah no poo poo they're dogs but it's a direct translation of the German name Deutsche Schäferhund. They're called shepherd dogs because their original purpose was to tend and guard sheep but they very quickly became popular for police work. They aren't really a guardian breed like say, the Doberman at all, they're a very versatile herding breed. But the style of herding GSDs do (tending) is almost completely obsolete because now these cool things called fences are pretty popular. Tending-style herders like GSDs and Beucerons are quite different tempermentally from some of the more common types of herders like Border Collies and Aussies and tending skills have a lot of cross over for protection work.

RetroVirus
Jun 27, 2004



Over summer a friend went hiking, and this unleashed pit thing barreled out of the trees and grabbed onto her golden's face. The owner tried getting the dog to let go by BITING ITS EAR LOL. That didn't work, so then his wife got a soda, shook it up, and sprayed it on the dog. That didn't work either, HMMM! Friend's husband got a tree branch and for some reason I can't remember if he hit the dog with it or used it as a breakstick, but anyway he got the dogs apart. Best of all the owner said "He hasn't done that in a while!!! "

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




RetroVirus posted:

Over summer a friend went hiking, and this unleashed pit thing barreled out of the trees and grabbed onto her golden's face. The owner tried getting the dog to let go by BITING ITS EAR LOL. That didn't work, so then his wife got a soda, shook it up, and sprayed it on the dog. That didn't work either, HMMM! Friend's husband got a tree branch and for some reason I can't remember if he hit the dog with it or used it as a breakstick, but anyway he got the dogs apart. Best of all the owner said "He hasn't done that in a while!!! "

Gonna carry a gun on all dog walks in the future.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:




That can be kind of difficult unless you live out in the sticks.

I had mine for years in apartments and now live on 5 acres in the Atlanta suburbs. Keeping them away from other people's dogs has literally never been hard for me, most people just really want to take their dogs everywhere so it's ~hard~ for them. I just leave mine home and exercise mine at home now, and when I was in apartments I walked parks and trails that weren't densely populated with a million dogs and trained a really, really solid "leave it" for when we did come across them. Dog parks are a never ever with pits, and we p much only do Petsmart and stuff when I have them at a point where they're ready to go out and work on distraction training.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I wouldn't want to. Trying to get my hands on a snarling, thrashing pit bull would be like trying to reach into a wood chipper to get my watch that fell in. I'd rather just shoot the wood chipper to death with my 9mm pistol that I carry.

Why is a German Shepherd called a GSD? Is it German Shepherd Dog, or German ShepherD? Why are they even called a Shepherd when they're really guard/service dogs?

The thing about pit bulls is that they were bred to get a hold and keep it, so there's rarely a lot of snarling or thrashing. They were also bred for strong human bite inhibition specifically because handlers need to be able to break them up in the pit without being bitten while they are doing pit work. I'd feel safer breaking up a pit bull fight than a fight between most other dogs and I have to break up my idiots all the time when they start poo poo with each other. Yelling and kicking and stupid drama doesn't work, you stick your hands in their mouths (or a break stick) and pry them apart and carry them away.

The average pit bull is a poorly bred trash dog with poo poo bite inhibition though and I wouldn't stick my hands in a strangers dogs mouth for that reason. Being willing to get in the middle of fighting dogs and break them up is a big "must" if you're gonna own one and frail grandmas don't need them.

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

Pixelated Dragon posted:


A family friend had a shelter pit mix for 14 years and there was never any incident. Honestly he was a good old dog but he was a fluke, not the rule. It's like if I knew someone with a really chill GSD and then told everyone else that they make great first timer dogs because all they do is laze about but I don't think anyone would say that about them. The pitbull martyrdom is weird IDK.

P much this. Honestly, I am pretty hyperbolic about pit bull management at people who want them- to me, they're easy dogs and it's not that much work to manage them. The average shelter pit may very well never develop high levels of dog aggression and it may not be that high energy and it may not end up with high prey drive because there's no telling how it's bred by looking at it, and I know TONS of people who have adopted shelter pits that turn out to be the chillest lump dogs on earth.

The problem is that there's no way to know, and even if you do VERY thoroughly screen and test a dog and have a good grasp of its current drive levels before adopting it, it is not uncommon for pits to suddenly turn on and decide that NOW, out of nowhere, they hate other dogs, or that NOW, suddenly, is the time to chase and shake the cat they've been living with peacefully for 5 years. Even dogs that are correctly managed and not shut down will sometimes turn on seemingly at random, sometimes at advanced/senior ages, even. Because of that, I try to get people to prepare for a dog that's a 9-10 on the difficulty scale, so that the pit/lab mix they bring home who is actually something like a 5 is no trouble at all to manage- and because even seemingly driveless ones shouldn't be left alone with other dogs and other pets in case they have their "oh man I know we've been pals for years but now I'm just gonna paint the walls with your blood" moment when you're not there to stop it. I've heard too many stories of pits that "were raised together since puppies wow they are best friends!!" suddenly going "gently caress this poo poo" and the owner comes home to one or both dogs dead 10 years later. That's why I always pressure people to manage them as though they are dog aggressive even when they don't seem to be.

a life less
Jul 12, 2009

We are healthy only to the extent that our ideas are humane.



Then there's the times when containment fails. I have a friend whose pit and other dog somehow got out of their crates (in separate rooms), started a fight, somehow locked themselves in another room and killed each other. They'd lived together for years with loads and loads of photos of the two happily coexisting. And this friend someone I'd consider very dog savvy and on top of their game.

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



a life less posted:

Then there's the times when containment fails. I have a friend whose pit and other dog somehow got out of their crates (in separate rooms), started a fight, somehow locked themselves in another room and killed each other. They'd lived together for years with loads and loads of photos of the two happily coexisting. And this friend someone I'd consider very dog savvy and on top of their game.

Superconsndar posted:

P much this. Honestly, I am pretty hyperbolic about pit bull management at people who want them- to me, they're easy dogs and it's not that much work to manage them. The average shelter pit may very well never develop high levels of dog aggression and it may not be that high energy and it may not end up with high prey drive because there's no telling how it's bred by looking at it, and I know TONS of people who have adopted shelter pits that turn out to be the chillest lump dogs on earth.

The problem is that there's no way to know, and even if you do VERY thoroughly screen and test a dog and have a good grasp of its current drive levels before adopting it, it is not uncommon for pits to suddenly turn on and decide that NOW, out of nowhere, they hate other dogs, or that NOW, suddenly, is the time to chase and shake the cat they've been living with peacefully for 5 years. Even dogs that are correctly managed and not shut down will sometimes turn on seemingly at random, sometimes at advanced/senior ages, even. Because of that, I try to get people to prepare for a dog that's a 9-10 on the difficulty scale, so that the pit/lab mix they bring home who is actually something like a 5 is no trouble at all to manage- and because even seemingly driveless ones shouldn't be left alone with other dogs and other pets in case they have their "oh man I know we've been pals for years but now I'm just gonna paint the walls with your blood" moment when you're not there to stop it. I've heard too many stories of pits that "were raised together since puppies wow they are best friends!!" suddenly going "gently caress this poo poo" and the owner comes home to one or both dogs dead 10 years later. That's why I always pressure people to manage them as though they are dog aggressive even when they don't seem to be.

Is this phenomenon of suddenly seeming to snap something that tends to be unique to pits or are all dogs this level of crazily unpredictable? I don't know how to dog so I'm curious. You don't really hear about the golden retriever that was best buds with the cat for four years all of a sudden going nuts and killing it.

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Feb 25, 2015

Triangulum
Oct 3, 2007

by Lowtax


It's definitely not unheard of in other breeds. A lot of working GSD people recommend not keeping multiple females unless you have a kennel setup because they have a tendency to turn on each other even if previously they'd gotten along. Also Dogs who are dog aggressive usually don't display those tendencies as puppies and turn on after puberty hits which can give the appearance of 'he just snapped one day!'

Triangulum fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Feb 25, 2015

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Found out my dog has some benign lumps on her chest.

gently caress this sucks. I want those cut off I want her to get a god drat haircut and have her back like now.

Periodiko
Jan 30, 2005
Uh.

Pixelated Dragon posted:

You don't really hear about the golden retriever that was best buds with the cat for four years all of a sudden going nuts and killing it.

That poo poo happens all the time. Plenty of dogs have strong prey drives and can wind up attacking smaller pets, especially if the owners are stupid and ignore the possibility. I originally wrote that it was unlikely with a golden retriever compared to a greyhound or a terrier, but just google "Golden Retriever kills cat" and it's an endless list of people asking about their golden retriever murdering their cat. Or their kid.

Periodiko fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Feb 25, 2015

wtftastic
Jul 24, 2006

"In private, we will be mercifully free from the opinions of imbeciles and fools."



Periodiko posted:

That poo poo happens all the time. Plenty of dogs have strong prey drives and can wind up attacking smaller pets, especially if the owners are stupid and ignore the possibility. I originally wrote that it was unlikely with a golden retriever compared to a greyhound or a terrier, but just google "Golden Retriever kills cat" and it's an endless list of people asking about their golden retriever murdering their cat. Or their kid.

Well with as over bred as they are, I'm not surprised if there's Goldens out there with temperament problems.

Problem!
Jan 1, 2007

I am the queen of France.


What really annoys me is that the pit bull rescue furmoms always refer to their dogs as PIT BULLS in situations where every other person would just say "my dog". It's ALWAYS "my pit bull..." instead. Always. They just crave attention for owning a pit bull.


My dog's an rear end in a top hat and I readily admit that and try to manage it by avoiding situations that trigger him, but I don't have some point to prove about noble cattledogs being misunderstood by society I guess.

Triangulum
Oct 3, 2007

by Lowtax


tbf 'is an rear end in a top hat' might as well be part of the acd breed standard

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



When I said you don't really hear of golden retrievers snapping I meant boring yeller dogs like placid labs and stuff. When there are behavior issues in dogs then there is usually writing on the wall, right? Example, the pit mix OP adopted for a hot second growled at his kid and tried to murder the cat. The behavior issues were really obvious from the start after he brought this already adult dog home. It seems like that's what you expect from a dog barring some kind of trauma or medical condition.

What causes the unpredictability of some cases, besides puberty? Example, someone brings home a shelter pit mix and then it decides after five years of completely ignoring the cat to suddenly murder the cat. If pits were historically bred for dog aggression and prey drive then wouldn't they be displaying signs of dog aggression and prey drive before the sudden flip? But instead they're BFFs with your sweet old lab for years until they're suddenly not. Is it because they are shut down and then one day they unshut down? I'm legit wondering what causes pits and possibly female GSDs to 'suddenly snap' in ways that other breeds aren't known for? It seems like this tends to happen in the case of pits even long after puberty hits.

The thought that dogs can be like Jekyll and Hyde makes me terrified of them.

Pixelated Dragon fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 26, 2015

Supercondescending
Jul 4, 2007

ok frankies now lets get in formation

Pixelated Dragon posted:

When I said you don't really hear of golden retrievers snapping I meant boring yeller dogs like placid labs and stuff. When there are behavior issues in dogs then there is usually writing on the wall, right? Example, the pit mix OP adopted for a hot second growled at his kid and tried to murder the cat. The behavior issues were really obvious from the start after he brought this already adult dog home. It seems like that's what you expect from a dog barring some kind of trauma or medical condition.

What causes the unpredictability of some cases, besides puberty? Example, someone brings home a shelter pit mix and then it decides after five years of completely ignoring the cat to suddenly murder the cat. If pits were historically bred for dog aggression and prey drive then wouldn't they be displaying signs of dog aggression and prey drive before the sudden flip? But instead they're BFFs with your sweet old lab for years until they're suddenly not. Is it because they are shut down and then one day they unshut down? I'm legit wondering what causes pits and possibly female GSDs to 'suddenly snap' in ways that other breeds aren't known for? It seems like this tends to happen in the case of pits even long after puberty hits.

The thought that dogs can be like Jekyll and Hyde makes me terrified of them.

This is another oversimplification I make to discourage dipshits from going out and getting a pit bull. I've never seen or heard of one actually just snapping. In my experience, and in the vast majority of cases I've followed and read about, there are always warning signs. Always. In most cases, I think it's just young dogs reaching maturity and dumb owners not realizing that they'll turn on at a normal age and they don't know what the gently caress when it happens. In general, the problem is usually that they are subtle, typically very small signs and changes in behavior towards other pets and so the owner either doesn't pick up on them, misinterprets them, or explains them away. In the vast majority of cases I hear about dogs just suddenly turning on and "snapping," further digging reveals poo poo like "welllllllll there was that time two years ago when he shook a cat to death, and wellllllllllllllll there was this time he growled at grandma, and welllllllllll he HAD been getting into more and more arguments with other dogs lately....b...but he definitely just snapped!! out of nowhere!!" Each time, the owners have explained away what should have been a great big flashing "STOP LETTING THE SHITBULL AROUND OTHER PETS" banner but they don't piece poo poo together so they treat this cumulative thing that eventually results in a dead dog as this strange, isolated, out of character incident that has absolutely nothing to do with previous incidents, because those incidents didn't result in anything dying, that time.

Usually though I really think people just misinterpret the gently caress out of really obvious signals. Most people are really, really bad at dog body language and a shitbulls warning signs are confused for play behavior by pretty much everyone all the time, because they do look a lot like play behavior, because it almost sort of is- the pit bull IS playing a game: the "give me an excuse to eat your face ahhahha!!!" game, and they ARE acting super happy, because going after other dogs is what they are for. People see it and instead of making Due loving Note that this is something they need to start channeling away from other dogs right now, they just go "OH TEEHEE HE LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVES OTHER DOGS, LOOK AT HIM PLAY!!!" A lot of dogs respond to that behavior by shutting down around the pitbull and tolerating its bullshit behavior, so it escalates, until the pit bull eventually goes for the other dog, or the other dog gets sick of its poo poo and finally stands up for itself- and in both cases, the owner is left going "WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED, THEY WERE JUST PLAYING, THEY ALWAYS PLAY SO NICELY TOGETHER.....HE JUST SNAPPED. NO, THERE WAS NO WARNING."

I also do think, like you mentioned, that being shut down is a big factor and it's probably the most likely one to create a dog that does "just snap." Most people handle dog aggression and prey drive by nuking it from orbit and punishing the gently caress out of the dog until it doesn't dare indicate that it wants to eat another dog. It's then managed like the average lab and given no outlets for it's stomped down drive, until it does just straight up boil over one day. I think this one happens a lot.

I personally raise puppies like any other dog and socialize the crap out of them when they are young. With mine, they usually begin getting lovely with other dogs around around 9-12 months, though earlier or later isn't uncommon. When they start getting lovely, I immediately start working on a good "leave it," "look at me," and on redirecting onto appropriate objects. I never correct them for growling, posturing, or any over the top body language because having as many warning signs as possible for when they're going to start poo poo with another dog is real loving important, obvs. I then pretty much let their DA develop and run its course. They're rewarded for being nice, and I'll try to keep lovely behavior to a relative minimum, but I actually want them to reach whatever level they're going to reach so that there are no surprises later. Typically, this culminates in a few small fights with the older dogs, usually leading up to one big shitfest at a little over a year old. I let this happen while taking EXTENSIVE AS gently caress sperg notes specifically because the more I know about that dogs exact triggers, it's exact DA levels, etc, the more I can tailor training to that dog specifically and the more I can shape their dumb little world in a way that keeps them chill enough to not be a dick to other dogs.

Then, after the big dumb shitfest, I separate that one from the other dogs, go to full time rotation, and give them a few days or weeks to cool down and forget how much they hate the other guy, and then start working on slowly reintroducing them. Usually at first they want to go right for each other because now they're on each others poo poo lists, and the process of teaching them to get along without shutting them down and removing warning signs is long and tedious and depends entirely on that particulars dogs triggers, but they always get there. The goal for me is a dog that gives PLENTY of warning signs (which is why mine always have dumb over the top body language in pics, I encourage that so I can know exactly when one of them is stirring poo poo) that gets along well with my other dogs when I have them out, at home, supervised, and that ignores prey animals when I am present. I never trust them alone with each other or prey animals no matter how well trained I've gotten them, because Just No. It seems counter intuitive to a lot of people that I let mines DA fully "develop" before I start hardcore work on it, but IMO, knowing exactly what that individual dog is likely to do and how all of its Mean Dog bullshit manifests is one of the biggest keys to having a safe multi-pet household with them. Without it you're going to end up bewildered and caught completely off guard with a dog that doesn't know how to control itself and doesn't even really understand why it's suddenly going for that other dog and you don't know if you can stick your hands in its mouth to separate them because you don't know what this particular dog is capable of and theres blood everywhere and ohgod ohgod ohgod. I'd rather know ahead of time what I'm in for and being able to tailor management to that one dogs individual idiosyncrasies is so, so helpful.

Most people, even loads of otherwise knowledgeable dog people, just see the first signs of DA and Teach The Dog Not To Do That and then they're shut the gently caress down either forever, or until they wig out at something. I really don't think there are many dogs that truly just snap, even when they turn on later in life. In a world full of idiot rescuemom babies though, it's way easier to just go "ya you know what else they do, snap suddenly with no warning so dont get one okay bye" because I just have 0 faith in the average pitbull owner anymore.

Supercondescending fucked around with this message at 05:03 on Feb 26, 2015

Fluffy Bunnies
Jan 9, 2009

FUCK





Pixelated Dragon posted:

When I said you don't really hear of golden retrievers snapping I meant boring yeller dogs like placid labs and stuff.



Once upon a time I had me a dog we raised up from a puppy and he was PACK LEADER or whatever insane bullshit my 12 year old mind thought dogs were and he'd loving murder anything that got in the pen with him including his siblings if they dared to look at him even slightly wrong. A dude jumped our fence once and landed in his pen. We had to wash gore off the pen floor for a hell of a while after the paramedics came. Thankfully he was a thief and trying to steal our poo poo so he got chewed up and nobody cared and that dog was fine.

Lived to be an old man, did drat good, tore the gently caress out of anybody who crossed him and was an all american yeller dog who drank his pissed in water happily all day every day. Why he pissed in his water all the time? Who the gently caress knows.

Fraction
Mar 27, 2010

CATS RULE DOGS DROOL

FERRETS ARE ALSO PRETTY MEH, HONESTLY




Superconsndar posted:

There's nothing to rehabilitate. It's a pit bull trying to kill another dog. Let's rehabilitate all of the retrievers falsely led to believe that they enjoy jumping in water and carrying ducks, too.

so basically everyone should just have show dogs right?

Pixelated Dragon
Jan 22, 2007

Do you remember how we used to breathe and watch it
and feel such power and feel such joy, to be ice dragons and be so free. -Noe Venable



My parents have a beagle mix and a cat. The beagle mix has a bum leg and bad back because she was hit by a car before my parents adopted her. When they got the kitten, they were best friends but now the dog growls at the cat and will sometimes half-assedly chase it. My parents don't know if it's play behavior or prey drive or what. They don't seem to care. They just want it gone. I think that she gets really cranky when other animals go near her back end while she's laying down because she's like that with other dogs too and the common thread seems to be that they're almost always right behind her when she growls. They have a plastic air cannon like this attachment and the dog is scared shitless of it, IDK why but if you just take it out and hold it up the dog will cower down and go hide quickly. They used to have one, I think they threw it out, and now they got another one to correct the dog's behavior towards the cat. What should they be doing instead?

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Eifert Posting
Mar 31, 2007

Sweet, pointless victory.


Grimey Drawer

Pretty sure the pit bull martyrdom comes from the fact that large swaths of the country have laws that euth them on principle. Using y'all's GSD example, you'd probably be less likely to say "They're good dogs they just have a strong protection drive and that can make them unpredictable" if you knew the next county over people were gassing them in droves and you're one bored local town meeting away from having to move or lose your dog.




Not saying they're right to spread positive propaganda but it's idiotic to say you don't know why they do it. People form irrational bonds with dogs that become irrational bonds with breeds of dogs 'cause the stupid shits won't stop dying.

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Wheats
Sep 28, 2007

strange sisters



PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

I've heard power bottoms set the pace of the session.

c/d?


It was an older, dimunitive lady who had it.


That can be kind of difficult unless you live out in the sticks.

it's actually easier a lot of the time if you live in the city, because people are slightly less likely to have off leash dogs there.

it's totally possible to live with a pit anywhere as long as you know enough and have enough time to train and handle a strong, drivey dog. that means about 90% of people aren't qualified to own one, though, which is what dumb ~precious rescue baby~ people ignore.

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