Visual GNUdio posted:

Philips TVs actually support this directly, but not on any of their North American products.

Visual GNUdio posted:

This thing is intended to go in your house and monitor motion. The eye color changes in response to motion or temperature, or maybe when it's angry.

This might be the creepiest loving thing I've seen with a Z-Wave chip.

Visual GNUdio posted:

This thing is intended to go in your house and monitor motion. The eye color changes in response to motion or temperature, or maybe when it's angry.

This might be the creepiest loving thing I've seen with a Z-Wave chip.

MrMoo posted:

With DropCam you eliminate half the problems as you just connect to the but still plenty of interference issues in the house due to WiFi awesomeness. Thus end up backing Eero to fix the WiFi to get the cameras to work.

NoneMoreNegative posted:

I would end up picking it up and dropping it into a furnace while it growled at me.

Progressive JPEG posted:

Why not just get a couple ubiquitis or smth

MrMoo posted:

Who wants to run cable?

Visual GNUdio posted:

I'll shamefully admit to having a boatload of smart home things in my house.

Here's the general overall synopsis:

It's poo poo.

The biggest issue is that there's a lot of different protocols from a lot of different vendors. Historically this wasn't the case. When you bought a Leviton system, you had to pay out the rear end for everything to be Leviton branded because that's all it would work with. If you were a zillionaire you'd go w/ Crestron or AMX but I'm going to leave dealer installed options out of the discussion. None of this poo poo would talk to each other across systems, but when you had an all Insteon system that you bought from the one company that makes that poo poo, it'd all generally work the way you'd expect it to. It was expensive-ish and limited in capability but it worked.

Then some jackass got it in their head that the way forward was to make a hub that would control all sorts of stuff. Instead of one expensive vendor that sold a bunch of poo poo that would pretty much work together, you have vendors trying to orchestrate a mismatched shitpile of things that each individually are unreliable, so the only thing certain about the system is that at any given time some part of it is sure not to be working.

Exhibit A: I currently cannot control my home office lights with the switch on the wall. Why? A CLOUD SERVICE hosed up a couple hours ago and is misinterpreting the action that should be taken when pressing butans. It did this once before and the problem magically went away a few hours later so I'll just hang here in the dark until THE CLOUD decides to stop making GBS threads on my stupid face.

STUPID poo poo I'M CURRENTLY PUNISHING MY FAMILY WITH

5 Assorted Sonos speakers (not poo poo, Sonos own zone)
3 Harmony Hub Remotes (mostly not poo poo)
ecobee3 smart themostat (expensive, but gently caress if it doesn't own and kicks the poo poo out of Nest)
3 Hue bulbs + 2 Hue Iris things (not individually poo poo, but poo poo as a group)
GE Link bulbs (hue compatible, no color change just dimming. see poo poo rating above)
Handful of Z-Wave dimmers and switches (individually work great, control system is still garbage)
Z-Wave multisensors (detects motion/temp/humidty/light. motion detect works, temp and humidity is hilariously inaccurate, have no use for light sensor)
Z-Wave door contact (still can't quit get it to line up right on my gate, have now resulted to 3d printing a replacement magnet holder thing in order to get it to work)
Z-Wave wall scene controller (see Exhibit A above)
Some random IP camera (mostly useless due to installation issues)
SmartThings hub (total garbage, cloud everything, read exhibit A above for why)

The Thing To Do these days is to buy one of the hubs and then buy a bunch of compatible poo poo and then hope for the best. To help you out I've created this handy list:

SmartThings - Z-Wave, Zigbee, WiFi - A Kickstarter thing later purchased by Samsung. Big money means they might stick around for a year or two. I know the most about this one because it's what I'm currently running at home. Open web-based IDE but lol it's all some hacked up version of Java called Groovy. Developer friendly platform with a lot of developers which means a bunch of shoehorning poorly programmed things together in awkward ways until you get something to work. The worst part about SmartThings is that it's all in the cloud. Every command your system receives gets sent to the cloud for processing. Want to turn on a light? Press button, wait for it to go to cloud, decide what should be done, packet is sent back to the hub and only then does the hub go and do something. It might turn on right away or it might turn on in 5 seconds or never. It's like a roulette wheel of fun for everything you do!

MiCasaVerde line - Z-Wave, WiFi - These guys have a few different models. The newest model is cloud based (see above) but the rest handle processing locally. Fully scriptable by the user with Lua. By all accounts the development environment is an ever changing target and generally a mess to work with. A new OS (UI7) has been in beta for nearly a year and it's still a mess. Upgrades are painful and break everything. Device support is spotty and often spread across UI releases, so your garage door opener requires UI7 but your thermostat will only work with UI6.

Revolv hub - Z-Wave, WiFi, Insteon - This looked like a very promising device with loads of radios and powerful hardware so a bunch of people bought them and then... Google bought the company, shut everything down and bailed on all the users. Rumor has it they were after a couple of the RF engineers and bought the company just to get them to work on their next Nest thing. Get used to this story. Spend hundreds (thousands) of dollars on a home automation system only to have all support disappear one day in a headhunting exercise.

OpenHab - Z-Wave, WiFi - OpenHab is a linux thing that lets you turn a PC into a hub of sorts. It can interface with other hubs to let you control Insteon and some older protocols. To my knowledge there's no ZigBee binding working yet. In general, the platform is linux as gently caress, poorly supported by a bunch of german neckbeards. The standard UI comes straight out of IOS 2. Like most things lunix all support happens by way of a mailing list that's nearly unusable. There's also a forum for support, but it's all in german. Good luck with this option.

Staples Connect, Wink Hub, Lowes Iris, PEQ - Assorted poo poo, typically some combination of Z-Wave, ZigBee, and WiFi - Home Depot and Lowes and fuckin Staples don't want to be left out in the cold (that's for dumb homes) so they either bought or partnered with somebody to get in on the hot hot action. Some of these are bad, some are OK. All of them are closed systems so they support whatever they support and that's the end of the list. Hopefully Staples or whomever doesn't get out of the home automation business because if they do you're hosed, there is zero way to interact with their system except through their app, and there's no good way for third parties to interface their things with these hubs.

Google Nest - WiFi, Thread - Nest was just going to be a new thermostat but they hit the market at the right time and everyone went bananas for smart poo poo so Google scoops them up for $3B before Apple gets around to it. Nest came out with their second product after the Google buyout and I think everyone knows how well the smoke alarm thing is doing. It's presumed that Google is going to extend the Nest to be a hub of some flavor but haven't really laid out what that is going to look like. My advice? Get an ecobee3, it's the same price but with loads more features and is generally less poo poo. It might be the one SMART THING in my house that gives me zero problems, it does what it's supposed to and I don't have to touch it ever. Plus it gives me fancy charts like this and this and I fuckin love me some charts.

Apple HomeKit - Bluetooth 4LE, WiFi - Not actually A Thing yet but the SDK has been released so we know what to expect. The choice of protocols is odd (more on protocols later). WiFi is what you think, but there is no low-power way to do WiFi, so unless you like changing batteries on your door contact sensor every other day you need something else. In this case, it's BT4LE. BT4 is nice, secure, and definitely low power, but it also has no mesh capability and is fairly short range so you're going to need to buy a bunch of Apple HomeKit Hubs (probably ATV3 or something like it) and hook them up all over your house. This is only stupid because there are low-power mesh protocols like Z-Wave and ZigBee that don't require any of that poo poo but lol Apple. Home Automation Done Right typically involves opening electrical boxes and sticking your fingers in places where your average Apple user shouldn't be sticking fingers, so it'll be interesting to see how they approach things like switches and other hardwired applications. You currently can't do anything with HomeKit but I expect they'll at least force the market to get their poo poo together... maybe.

OK let's talk about home automation protocols for a minute. In order to turn your fat fuckin finger pushin' into light switchin' you need some way for the signal to get from the fattie (you) to the light. In many cases this may actually be a combination of different protocols. In no particular order, here's what you're likely to be dealing with:

X10 X10 is a combination powerline and wireless protocol that is now 40 years old. It's unreliable, it's totally unsecured, and it's generally a mess. This is how things used to get done back in the day if you were poor but decided you needed wireless light switches for some reason. X10 has a huge installed base of customers who surely regret the decision at this point and has probably been pulled out of the wall already. Don't buy anything X10.

Insteon Insteon is a Smartlabs technology that mixes mesh and powerline communications. True to it's name it offers relatively low latency and is reasonably secure. If you're stupid and own a bunch of X10 crap, Insteon also offers backward compatibility to control X10 devices. Insteon probably would have seen wider support had Smartlabs been a little looser with the licensing, but as of today almost everything that is Insteon compatible is made by Smartlabs and they just don't have the money or momentum to push it any further. Insteon isn't a bad protocol, but it's owned by a company that can't hack it against Google or Apple or Samsung and the like. They've recently started inking a bunch of deals trying to change that, but it hasn't exactly caught on and everyone has moved on to something else.

WiFi WiFi is what it is. There is no good way to handle WiFi in a low power setting, so you can pretty well count out any battery operated devices utilizing WiFi unless you're OK with recharging them every day. That might work OK for a tablet, but isn't going to work very well for a door lock. WiFi doesn't specify layer 7, so hope that whatever you're buying has a well documented and supported API or you're going to be dealing with a bunch of incompatibilities and kludgey hacks to get things talking to each other. WiFi is best used for devices that can stand on their own with some local processing power and web UI (light switches = no, IP cameras = yes). Finally, WiFi needs to be setup somehow meaning the device has some way to handle input locally (a display and keyboard), a wired connection option, or you'll have to run some sort of app along side to get the thing up and running on your network (Chromecast/Sonos/Harmony/etc).

Z-Wave Z-Wave is a low power wireless mesh network developed by ZenSys and now owned by Sigma. That means that every Z-Wave chip needs to be purchased from Sigma which carries the license with it. Z-Wave is secured via AES encryption and is in widespread use for security systems (including modern ADT installations). They have a pretty well defined application layer and device description standards, so if you buy a Z-Wave controller it will almost certainly work with all Z-Wave lights without too much loving about. Same is largely true for not-lights (contact sensors, motion sensing, locks, doors, etc). Z-Wave is probably the most robust of the existing standards and has the widest range of compatible devices. The license encumbrance is a problem for some of the major players, so don't expect to see Apple or Google jumping on the bandwagon because Sigma owns the core protocol implementation.

ZigBee ZigBee is another low power wireless mesh network standard but published as a fully open standard. As a result there are loads of vendors with physical layer ZigBee chipsets available. The trouble with ZigBee is that until very recently there has been zero standardization of the application layer. For example, while Creston uses ZigBee for wireless control, you cannot interface to Crestron devices through other ZigBee devices as they aren't at all compatible. There is now a reasonably well-standardized spec for ZigBee lights (Light Link) that only saw adoption after Philips released Hue. Finally, ZigBee is the low power champion. The Hue light switch thing, while being crap, is interesting in that it is able to send ZigBee commands using the power generated from the user pressing the button alone. No batteries required. That's seriously low power. Expect to see more ZigBee in the future, but I wouldn't invest much into it right now until the application layer standards are worked out.

Bluetooth 4LE Bluetooth 4LE is bluetooth as you'd expect but with significantly reduced power requirements for low bandwidth communications. BT4LE is already in widespread use for low power applications like the fitbit poo poo you see fat spergs wearing everywhere. The thing about BT4LE is that it doesn't support mesh, so everything needs to be within ~100ft of a BT4LE hub (or gateway) for it to work. Like WiFi there is no standard application stack on top so p much anything goes. Apple is pushing this poo poo hard because their phones and ATV already work with it. I don't like the lack of mesh networking but otherwise BT4LE has a lot going for it.

Other stuff:
Thread Essentially IP over ZigBee, currently only used by Nest/Google.

KNX Older standard used entirely by dirty europeans.

OIC 3 giant companies got together to create a new IoT wireless standard in 2014, and one has already bailed on the project. I don't expect to see an actual thing with OIC on the market ever.

Smart lights vs smart switches
There's a lot of talk about Hue because Philips was the first major company to offer a straightforward way to control lights with your phone. I have 5 Hue lights of one flavor or another plus a couple GE Link bulbs that are compatible but without color change (so dimming only). A Hue set comes with a bridge that will bridge wired ethernet to ZigBee (note "WiFi" isn't on this list, despite Philips selling these as WiFi Connected Bulbs). There are apps from Philips and third parties for most platforms. These talk to the hub, the hub sends commands over ZigBee to your lights.

Here's the problem with smart lights: they are plugged into your existing light socket, and that socket has a light switch at the other side. You plug in, turn on the switch, and you can get it paired to your hub pretty easy and take over. Wheee, I can change light colors from my phone! What fun! OK now turn off that switch, the light turns off like you'd expect. Now grab your phone and ... AWWWWW, you can't control poo poo because you've cut the power to the lights. Smart Lights become dumb not-lights once you turn the switch off. This doesn't sound like a big deal but it sucks in practice. You either a) leave all your light switches on and then try and fumble around for a goddamn cell phone every time you walk into a room, or b) use the switches and now you can't turn on lights without the switch and you should have just bought a regular goddamn bulb.

Philips recognized this problem and has solved it with a horrible wall switch thing that you stick on to your wall. It's interesting in that it uses the force of you pressing the button to actually power the device (so no batteries), but it feels clunky and cheap and isn't what a person would expect to interact with on the wall to turn on lights. If you're a shut-in with no friends or guests then I guess it's OK, but people have expectations around how switches work, and smart lights and the Philips Tap do nothing to address this.

A better solution is to replace your existing wall switches with "smart" switches (Z-Wave currently, maybe Insteon if you like dead ends or someday maybe ZigBee). You can get a switch for ~$35 (practically free in the Smart Home world), replace your existing switch, and now the lights controlled by that switch work just like they used to, but have the added ability to be controlled from elsewhere via your hub. If your hub shits the bed, no problem the switch works locally just as you'd expect. No, you don't get fancy changy colors, but you get a light that turns on every time and doesn't involve fumbling for your cell phone.

Mathhole posted:

this man doesn't gently caress around

infernal machines posted:

yes he does, constantly.

just to get his loving lights to turn on.

Zap! posted:

GNUdio, Wink is a spinoff of Quirky who makes most of the neat/useful zigbee devices. I'm waiting for my Water Sensor to arrive. I had a pinhole leak in my hot water heater and it would have ruined the wall had we not caught it in a few hours of it occurring.

I started using Wink about two or three months ago and it seems alright. Only allows very simple commands but it seems to be good enough for now. I have a GE Link Light in the front yard light because the circuit was hard wired and didn't have space for a switch inside the house. Now I have Wink set up to turn it on and off and I never worry about it.

The worst problem I've run into is updating the drat Wink hub. Sometimes it just doesn't update and constantly pesters me about it. Suddenly it updates and all is right in the world.

Visual GNUdio posted:

This thing is intended to go in your house and monitor motion. The eye color changes in response to motion or temperature, or maybe when it's angry.

This might be the creepiest loving thing I've seen with a Z-Wave chip.

DuckConference posted:

I wonder about crestron

large parts of their software stack haven't seen a major architecture improvement since sometime in the windows 95 era

otoh a six-figure installation contract leaves lots of room for a system designer to spend the necessary hours wrangling with it

Hed posted:

X-10 (or at least the same X-10.com web site that had the ads below) was also my first exposure to pop-under ads. lovely people all the way

Garbd posted:

computer toucher posted:

IFTTT knows when away from home and turns on the WeMo switch connected to my security camera, which I can look @ from my phone. smart enough 4 me.

emoji posted:

Let's fill our homes with expensive garbage.

Visual GNUdio posted:

The thing with dealer installed systems like Crestron is that you're fully at the mercy of the dealer's ability to architect a working system, program it well, and design the UI. These are disciplines that don't often have a lot of overlap, so if you wind up with a small shop where one dude does it all you're likely to get a bad looking system that doesn't work right. If you find yourself in this position, you're probably hosed because Crestron won't allow you to make any changes at all to your own system and will often times protect the dealer from somebody else coming in and fixing it. Dealer systems can be nice but you better hope it turns out well because it's ungodly expensive and hard to change once you've deployed it.

Visual GNUdio posted:

The thing with dealer installed systems like Crestron is that you're fully at the mercy of the dealer's ability to architect a working system, program it well, and design the UI. These are disciplines that don't often have a lot of overlap, so if you wind up with a small shop where one dude does it all you're likely to get a bad looking system that doesn't work right. If you find yourself in this position, you're probably hosed because Crestron won't allow you to make any changes at all to your own system and will often times protect the dealer from somebody else coming in and fixing it. Dealer systems can be nice but you better hope it turns out well because it's ungodly expensive and hard to change once you've deployed it.

Share Bear posted:

so you're saying this is an industry... ripe for disruption?

*creates a lightbulb dependent on ruby gems*

Visual GNUdio posted:

Wink has some serious financial backing and of the hubs I grouped with it I think it probably has the best chance at success.

Visual GNUdio posted:

I knew Quirky had some big numbers behind it, but I hadn't realized how big. According to this they've already burned through $100 million. I'm downgrading my Wink assessment to "doomed". They have no hope of digging themselves out of this hole unless GE goes full retard and just buys them out.

Jonny 290 posted:

man i bought this little wink sensor that was supposed to let me see if the lights were on and off and what the temp is and it just would never register or set up. junk. 22 bucks of garb

Visual GNUdio posted:

I knew Quirky had some big numbers behind it, but I hadn't realized how big. According to this they've already burned through $100 million. I'm downgrading my Wink assessment to "doomed". They have no hope of digging themselves out of this hole unless GE goes full retard and just buys them out.

Zap! posted:

At least every thing is zwave and works with the SmartThings hub if Wink and/or Quirky goes under.