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fat bossy gerbil
Jul 1, 2007



So you want a shotgun eh? Good choice. You've come to the right place. The old shotgun thread was a little cluttered so I'm gonna go ahead and paste all the good stuff from the last thread (with some minor modification) in one spot so we can get you off the internet and into the field with the shotgun that is right for you.

Shotguns come in many varieties and price ranges and are by far the most versatile guns in terms of all around utility. A shotgun with a couple different barrels and a few chokes can easily hunt just about any game on the planet and serve triple duty as a home defender and clay buster all without breaking the bank.

Now before we begin...

DON'T BUY A FIXED CHOKE SHOTGUN*

Flatland Crusoe posted:

The real moral of the story is everyone will eventually be let down by a shotgun with fixed chokes.

The ability to change chokes, shot size and shell length at will is the real value of a shotgun.

A fixed choke shotgun is like having a car with 1 gear in the transmission. Having a fixed cylinder is like only having first gear and maxing out at 20 mph whereas a full choke would be like only having 6th gear. Sure you could in theory get up to speed but it's going to really suck until you get going really fast. Having only 6th gear would be fine to rip across Kansas on I-70 and only having first would be fine delivering bagels around the congested city, but realistically situations will dictate that not all shotgun targets are pumpkins at 15 yards or geese at 50

* Many single shot break action shotguns have a fixed choke which should not be a deal breaker if the price is really cheap (it will be) and it has the right choke for the purpose it will serve. Do not buy repeating or double barrel shotguns with a fixed choke.

Now that that's out of the way...

ACTION

ohhhlethal posted:

Single Shot: Affordable and reliable, decent single shot break action guns can often be found at pawn shops around the $100 mark and a brand new one won't run you more than $175 at most sporting goods shops. Many single shots have a fixed choke so buy accordingly.

Double Barrel (Hammer or Hammerless SxS and O/Us): Increased reliability. Double barrels typically run you a little more because of the increased amount of metal and workmanship to make another barrel. Beretta makes phenomenal Over Unders. Get one, use it, take care of it, and it's value will hardly decrease. I've bought and sold a 686 simply to turn it around and make a $350 profit, because I know the market demands these. Disadvantages include a limited 2 round capacity, unless you've got some super shotgun that you need to be telling us about.

Pump: Reliable, and you looked like a badass when you cocked it one handed smoking a cigar wearing Raybands in 1983. Remington 870's and Mossberg 835s are ideal for hunting. Smooth actions and accurate shooters. Pumps can handle the low recoil stuff. Disadvantages include not being able to shoot as quickly as a semi or double barrel.

Semis: Fast shooters, light on the recoil. Great for both home defense and hunting, the semis really have held their own. Gas operated shotguns such as Remington 1100s will always out shoot Inertia/Recoil driven shotguns, but at the same time have slightly more maintanence required.. Benelli really holds the market with extremely well made semis in both the hunting and tactical market. A big disadvantage includes burning a giant loving hole in your wallet the size of ph4lcons mother's vagina and the inability for SOME semis to cycle low recoil loads. If you come across a Browning A-5, use it and don't second guess me you moron. Marouku or Belgian, they are both great, but the Belgians are made slightly better and are more valuable.

Bolt: Yes, they used to make bolt action shotguns. It works just like a bolt action rifle, only it's a shotgun. Nobody has made new bolt action shotguns for a while now unless you count slug guns (more on that in a minute) but there are still many old bolt action shotguns still in circulation. Your grandpa probably has one in his closet. There's one at the pawn shop down the street. They are all old but probably still functional. Spare parts may be hard to come by and they will not be designed for steel shot. Most will have a fixed choke.

There are still several new make bolt action slug guns on the market currently aimed at big game hunters in states that don't allow for the use of rifles due to population density. These have rifled barrels and fire Sabot slugs. For all intents and purposes they are hunting rifles that shoot really wonky ammo.

Words of Caution About Cheap Double Barrels

Flatland Crusoe posted:

Entry level O/U doesn't really exist, its kind of a spend $1k plus or shoot a semi-auto. Stoeger does make the Condor, but I really wouldn't recommend it.

Flatland Crusoe posted:

To clarify, O/U's generally require a lot of machined parts and fitting between the barrel/receiver and forend. These often work loose very quickly on cheaper guns. For a short while Winchester tried to get around this by adding variable tension to the forend to open tolerances for manufacturing. This split the forend too easily and was removed.

The advent of CNC processes has lead to fewer skilled manual machinist and finishers which drives up costs for an older design made in an era of abundant cheap skilled labor.

Pull apart a modern pump or autoloader and you will see tons of injection molded plastic and stamped internals as well as the receiver. This isn't the case on O/U's. Saving money has meant cheap soft cast receivers that work loose quickly and no real barrel regulation.

The point is that for 1/2 or less the cost of an O/U you can get a super reliable semiauto designed for modern manufacture.

GAUGES

Rocko442 posted:

Technically, shotgun gauge is defined as:

1lb=X number of lead balls, each being Y in diameter, with X being the gauge of the gun and Y being the bore diameter. 12 gauge is appx. .73 caliber, 20 gauge is appx. .62 caliber, 28 gauge is appx. .55 caliber. .410 bore, the smallest common size, is, well, .41 caliber, that being appx. 67 gauge.

Any shotgun gauge can have multiple lengths available. The length of a shotgun shell is determined before crimping, and is visible again after firing. Standard is 2 3/4" in most gauges (2 1/2" in .410), with 3" magnum available in 12, 20, and .410. 3 1/2" magnums are available in 12 gauge for select applications. As a note, you can use a shorter shell in a gun marked for longer shells, but the reverse (longer shell in shorter chamber) will raise chamber pressure to potentially unsafe levels.

10 gauge: Really big. Goose slayer supreme.

12 gauge: Most common for HD, waterfowl, turkey, large game (with buckshot or slugs), and most of the target sports. Can also be used for upland game, but I sort of think it's overkill. Not that I wouldn't use it.

16 gauge: Fell out of popularity in favour of 20 gauge though it has seen a slight resurgence in recent years.

20 gauge: Useful in an HD role for those who cannot tolerate 12 gauge, very nice for most target sports except trap. Great for upland game.

28 gauge: Might be getting a little light for target sports except skeet, also a good upland gun.

.410 bore: Tiny. Use accordingly. 25 yards or less. Negligible recoil.

BARRELS

ohhhlethal posted:

Barrels can range from 18" to whatever the hell you want. Let's break it down

~18-22"": D-FENCE; The ball's in your court, baby. Close quarters combat never looked so sexy. Get yourself a nice shorty Mossberg 500, particularly a "face poker" and you've got everything you need to defend freedom. Did I mention STRENGTH and HONOR?

24-26": A great upland game gun. Short barrels tend to swing faster, allowing faster target acquisition on those god forsaken quail. Smaller barrels will run you lighter too, allowing for a much more pleasant day hike when hunting Pheasant, Quail, Dove, and other midland game that flies fast and comes in close. A lot of people tend to hunting turkey with #4 Buckshot out of 24" barrels. Personally, I recommend a slightly longer barrel that will hold tighter patterns for increased vital shots in the neck, but you'll see a lot of these tactical turkey models running you in the 24 - 26" range For sporting clays, I highly recommend the longer 26 inch.

~26-28": A waterfowler's wet dream. While most duck hunting and Goose hunting is done from a blind, or other stationary location, a longer barrel really helps to reach out there. Geese tend to fly higher, and a nice 28 incher will really throw some pellets in good groups out to 50 and 60 yards, and even beyond with good chokes (Briley). While most ducks are seen and called in, a fast swinging gun is not necessary since dis murder's gettin' all pre-meditated.

~30+": Oh god you just love your Goose slaying 3 1/2" magnum loads don't you? You dirty whore you. Knock em' dead hot shot, but don't complain to me when your amazonia shotgun weighs you down in the field all day.

CHOKES

Don't know jack poo poo about chokes? Here is a handy Youtube video:

Understanding Shotgun Chokes

miklm posted:


In order of increasing constriction, chokes are classified as:

1. Cylinder
2. Skeet (or Skeet 1)
3. Improved Cylinder
4. Skeet 2 (rare)
5. Light Modified
6. Modified
7. Improved Modified
8. Light Full (rare)
9. Full
10. Extra Full
11. Turkey

Typically you'll get an IC, Mod, and Full with a new gun, maybe C and IM too.

What are you shooting? For Skeet, you want a pair of Skeet, or a Skeet/IC combo. Skeet2 is a special choke for International Skeet, it's almost the same as LM. For Sporting Clays, a LM/Mod might be a good starting point, and change based on the range of the targets (more open for closer, tighter for longer). Trap, IM/Full depending on if you're shooting from 16 or 27 yds.

Chokes quickly become a Ford vs Chevy, Beretta vs Browning or Glock vs 1911-type topic. I'll try to be objective. Many factory chokes, especially Browning, are junk. Benelli are typically pretty good. Beretta is average. Briley, Carlson's and Trulock are the "big 3" choke folks, and are consistently good. If you call either of them and order a set of chokes you'll have a good functional set that will last the life of the gun. Then there are the specialty folks like Seminole, Comp-n-Choke, and the newest, Muller. Some of these are pure snake oil; some have some unique benefits like the Muller which uses a lightweight material and ceramic coating. Briley has their Titanium choke and the Helix chokes that fall into this category. Do they actually do anything different? Hard to say. There are some audacious claims, and its almost impossible to test because there is so much variance in "patterns" even from 1 shell to the next in the same box, much less between brands & loads.

Either way, I highly recommend extended chokes to protect the muzzle and for easier insert/removal.

*edit* to add, most people, especially beginners, miss targets by feet. Chokes give you inches. Worry endlessly about chokes when trying to get from 98/100 to 100/100. If you're shooting 65/100, worry about getting the center of the pattern on the leading edge of the clay, and worry about chokes later (assuming you have a reasonably good set that came with the gun, etc., and you may want to go ahead and get a set of extended chokes for muzzle protection, etc etc...)

Flatland Crusoe posted:

With regard to chokes, it's really hard to make any blanket statements as there are just too many variables to compare choke X to brand Y under most circumstances. My experience has generally been good with factory chokes supplemented with quite a few Carson's choke tubes. I have had one really bad experience with an aftermarket turkey choke that cost me a turkey 15 years ago, otherwise I just use what I have on hand. It's one of those things where I might prefer a briley choke, but I'm not going to trash $150 worth of Beretta tubes because I don't really shoot competitively and have too many requirements of a given shotgun to nit pick each one. I honestly use the full range of chokes within a year of hunting/targets.

As mentioned here earlier there are a lot of snake oil claims with regard to choke and load performance. If you have specific concerns, shoot the patterning board at your range with your gun and your ammo.

The difference in each choke diameter is .005" so going out of tolerance isn't too hard. You have to remember the machine shops are doing production runs where they start on the high side of tolerance and don't rezero or change tooling until the wear warrants it. The guy making that decision is likely a production manager who is relatively absent or is a semi-skilled machinist fresh off his fast food career/night school. If you are ever concerned about a choke there is pretty much a universal policy of exchanging chokes to the manufacturer.

LOADS

Flatland Crusoe posted:

#12 shot-rat shot for shooting a rat or bird at less than 10 feet out of not a shotgun.
#9 shot- fine for quail
8-7.5# shot- super common bulk ammo and clays loads, dove hunting
2-6# upland game, squirrels, ducks, turkeys
#2,BB,TT- geese, coyotes
Buckshot- defence, deer where legal
Slugs- deer, defence, bears

As a point a reference a 2 3/4" 12 gauge load has around 200 #9 pellets vs 12 buckshot pellets.

Typically shot sizes larger in diameter than #6 have more erratic patterns.

Slugs are usually best shot with no tighter than a modified choke and accuracy may very with different constrictions.

Saboted slugs need a rifled barrel.

Rifled chokes hardly do anything and won't stabilize saboted slugs.

Remember, foster slugs through a smooth bore are a 50-75 yard affair unless you're some sort of Midwestern shotgun sniper who knows how to lob them just right, then you can push it out to 100. If you're in a shotgun only state and you want to shoot further you'll need a rifled barrel and some sabot rounds.

SHOTGUN SPORTS

Shotgun sports revolve around the shooting of moving targets, specifically orange clay pucks called Pigeons, a remnant of the sports origin in the form of pigeon shoots where large amounts of caged birds were released and shot for sport. Clay shooting ranges from an informal afternoon lobbing clays by hand with a friend all the way to Olympic level competitions with mechanically thrown and timed pigeons and strict rules.

Shooting clays in any capacity is a great way to work on practical shooting skills. Moving targets really add a twist that shooting from a bench just can't match.

The cheapest and easiest way to get into shooting clay pigeons is with one of these:



And one of these:



A used break action shotgun and clay thrower combined should cost you no more than $120. Add 100 clays and 100 shells from Walmart to the equation and you should be right around $150 for an afternoon of fun with a friend. If you like shooting clays but don't have a friend to throw for you (goony goon) there are many mechanical clay throwers that can do the job that the friends you don't have normally would.

Seriously, even if you don't want a shotgun and will never buy another one GO AND BUY THESE TWO THINGS RIGHT NOW! THE PURE JOY OF SHOOTING FLYING ORANGE PUCKS CANNOT BE UNDERSTATED.

If you find that you like shooting clays and would like to sharpen your skills and perhaps compete against others there are three types of organized shotgun sports known as Trap Shooting, Skeet Shooting and Sporting Clays. For an in depth description of all three simply scroll down to the bottom of the page where ZenMastaT and Flatland Crusoe have provided a lengthy write up.

QUICK PICKS

Single Shot:

- Anything by NEF or H&R

Pump:

- Mossberg 500
- Used Remington 870 (before 2006)
- Benelli Nova
- Used Ithica Model 37

Semi:

- Mossberg 930
- Beretta A300 & A400


Over/Under:

- Browning Citori/Cynergy
- Winchester 101
- Ruger Red Label
- Beretta 686/687/682

I'm sure I left a few models off the quick pick list that should be there, just name them and I'll put them in with the others. Enjoy the much more concise Shotgun Thread and be sure to let me know if I left anything out.

fat bossy gerbil fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 5, 2015

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Shima Honnou
Dec 1, 2010

The Once And Future King Of Dicetroit



College Slice

Brand new shotgun thread? Need a brand new shotgun? Buy a Mossberg pump, they're pretty good and have lots of aftermarket crap available with which to make it your own. This is my meaningful contribution to advice in shotgun selection.

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


I would add something about stance and fitting the gun to you so it points naturally. Other than that, pattern and fit (even a basic one done with a friend is okay) your shotguns to you if you have any interest in shooting moving targets. Keep both eyes open.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


The issue of shot size isn't really addressed.

#12 shot-rat shot for shooting a rat or bird at less than 10 feet out of not a shotgun.
#9 shot- fine for quail
8-7.5# shot- super common bulk ammo and clays loads, dove hunting
2-6# upland game, squirrels, ducks, turkeys
#2,BB,TT- geese, coyotes
Buckshot- defense, deer where legal
Slugs- deer, defense, bears

As a point a reference a 2 3/4" 12 gauge load has around 200 #9 pellets vs 12 buckshot pellets.

Typically shot sizes larger in diameter than #6 have more erratic patterns.

Slugs are usually best shot with no tighter than a modified choke and accuracy may very with different constrictions.

Saboted slugs need a rifled barrel.

Rifled chokes don't do hardly anything and won't stabilize saboted slugs.

tumblr.txt
Jan 11, 2015

by zen death robot


How do pump action shotguns have reduced recoil? Semi-auto, sure, but pumps?

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


tumblr.txt posted:

How do pump action shotguns have reduced recoil? Semi-auto, sure, but pumps?

They don't, although stocks like comfortech are becoming more common on pumps.

A Wizard of Goatse
Dec 14, 2014



Do the vented chokes actually do anything besides look stupid, I'm pretty sure they just look stupid (not counting cutts/compchoke)

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Do the vented chokes actually do anything besides look stupid, I'm pretty sure they just look stupid (not counting cutts/compchoke)

Not really, they just get carbon all over the last inch of your barrel.

That said I don't really consider them a feature but accept them because really reputable companies like Indian Creek use them as part of their design.

In theory they do something when you start playing the game of "marginal gains."

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



tumblr.txt posted:

How do pump action shotguns have reduced recoil? Semi-auto, sure, but pumps?

Benelli has a sort of mercury-filled recoil reducer that fits into the stock that can really help cut down on how hot 3.5" shells can feel.

Speaking of Benelli, I can't recommend the Nova enough if you need a shotgun with a longer LOP. I'm 6'6" and to this day it's the only pump gun that has felt really comfortable with it. 3'5" buckshot loads kick like a mule but you can find them relatively cheap and they're a hoot as a once-in-a-while thing.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Just as a random fitting thought, the Italian shotguns usually have 1/2" LOP longer than American guns. Usually 14.5" vs 14/14.25" on adult models and 13.5" vs 12.5" on certain youth models. I still shoot my Beretta youth gun just fine, but I can't do much with a 12.5" Remington youth stock.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"

Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



charliebravo77 posted:

You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



charliebravo77 posted:

You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"

This post

Also are those relatively inexpensive Mossberg semi-autos (930, I think?) still well-liked? I remember they sold like crazy when they first came out.

SFH1989
Apr 23, 2007



DJExile posted:

Benelli has a sort of mercury-filled recoil reducer that fits into the stock that can really help cut down on how hot 3.5" shells can feel.

Speaking of Benelli, I can't recommend the Nova enough if you need a shotgun with a longer LOP. I'm 6'6" and to this day it's the only pump gun that has felt really comfortable with it. 3'5" buckshot loads kick like a mule but you can find them relatively cheap and they're a hoot as a once-in-a-while thing.

Yup, my SuperNova was my first gun bought from a store when I was 19. I didn't do any research and just knew I wanted an 870 but the place I went to didn't have any new. So without researching it at all I bought the Benelli and never regretted it.



After shooting a shotgun match last August I've decided my next shotgun will be a Mossberg 930 JM Pro 24". It was the most fun I've had at a gun game and I loved the semi-autos I tried.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


DJExile posted:

Also are those relatively inexpensive Mossberg semi-autos (930, I think?) still well-liked? I remember they sold like crazy when they first came out.

I would consider them to be good from the perspective of being a modern shotgun(chokes, 2.75/3" chamber) whose cost sits just above used gun range. Sort of in the way a new KIA is better than a used car in certain ways.

They kind of have the sub $1k 3 gun market tied up, but if capacity isn't an issue $100 more buys you a Beretta A300 which is a much better waterfowl clays gun.

As a point of perspective there is both a Jerry Miculek and Duck Dynasty version of the 930 if you are wondering about the target market.

The 930's are very popular because they offered very niche semiautos at cost that was 1/2 to 1/3 of their competitors with the same features. No one had ghost rings on a $500 semiauto before the 930. I think the base gun is dated by 20+ years and executed by a company that is driven by function at a price point.

Flatland Crusoe fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Mar 4, 2015

T1g4h
Aug 6, 2008

I AM THE SCALES OF JUSTICE, CONDUCTOR OF THE CHOIR OF DEATH!



Speaking of 930s and the JM edition, Jerry Miculek is doing a giveaway on his YouTube channel once he hits 300k subscribers. One of the possible prizes is a Mossberg 930 JM Pro, or a $Texas priced scope or a reflex sight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsfAgPjeXps

If nothing else, it's worth subscribing and commenting on a video because gently caress it, you might end up with a fancy semi-auto if you're lucky

T1g4h fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Mar 4, 2015

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

The 930JM has attracted a fairly decent contingent of the 3-gun market for a few good reasons, and revealing a few caveats.

The good: You get a 22 or 24 inch barrel with interchangeable chokes, vent rib, and a fiber bead. 3-gun shotguns occupy this odd niche between birdguns and "tactical" guns -- "tactical" ones tend to be wide open bore, which sucks for 3-gun, and birdguns can be too long depending on your stature. 22 inches is handy as hell without giving up sight radius for slug shots. You get a Nordic tube included in the base price. The loading port is opened up, though not to the extent that many competitors would like (which can be a Saturday's worth of work or around a hundred bucks at the gunsmith). You also get to go the right arm route and not give a rat's rear end about 922(r).

The bad: They don't take dirt well, and from what other parts of the Internet have been able to discern, they require small parts replacement at higher intervals than others. Also, they come with a black magazine follower. Seriously, loving black?

The Stoeger M3000 also comes in at under $700 for the 3-gun market, however the ones with short enough barrels are hen's teeth, and you will have to send them somewhere to get extended/go fast bits done right out of the gate. They are Turkish copies of Benelli M2s, with their associated reliability.

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


charliebravo77 posted:

You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"

LW please make this happen.

right arm
Oct 29, 2011



thermobollocks posted:

You also get to go the right arm route and not give a rat's rear end about 922(r).




552_3 by right_arm, on Flickr

fat bossy gerbil
Jul 1, 2007



charliebravo77 posted:

You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"
I am humbled goon sir. LW, please change it.

I added Flatland's guide on shot size, perhaps someone would do a little write up on what to look and feel for when picking out a shotgun and I can add it to the OP as well.

Also, is the Franchi Instinct line any good?

GoGoGadgetChris
Mar 18, 2010


Bad Dog

Listen to the advice about (not) buying a new 870. I bought an 870 Wingmaster in 2012 and it RUSTS so hard. It lives in a safe with a 10x10x4 box of dessicant and it's a losing battle against the rust. I can't imagine how much worse the 870 Express models would be, if the Wingmaster is supposed to be an upgrade.

Reuben Sandwich
Jan 27, 2007



Like the 870, I'd add a pre-2000 Remington 1100/1187 to the semi list. My father has one with a 30" fixed full for trap and a ~26" fixed skeet for skeet.

If you're buying simply for trap or skeet, I'd recommend a fixed choke. It makes cleaning easier and one less thing to check every day you shoot. (Yes I have many with fixed chokes and love them in each their own special way: trap/skeet/SC/grouse)

Can you please add about patterning the shot spread. Everyone spends lots of time sighting in a rifle but nobody will spend 10 minutes to see what the pattern of their shotgun is.

charliebravo77 posted:

You missed a great opportunity for renaming the thread: "Choke Me a Little: The Modified and Improved Shotgun Megathread"
Personally prefer: "Shooting wads at a birds: The .25 Improved Modified Shotgun Megathread"

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Any tips to removing a choke without a choke wrench? I realized i have 0 idea what choke is in my mossberg 500 28" barrel and i can't get it out with just my thumb.

Edit: Quarter was my first thought, but I didn't want to accidentally have a pencil/m1 type situation. Gracias

Crunkjuice fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Mar 5, 2015

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Crunkjuice posted:

Any tips to removing a choke without a choke wrench? I realized i have 0 idea what choke is in my mossberg 500 28" barrel and i can't get it out with just my thumb.

A quarter. Hold the quarter with some pliers if you need more torque.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Well apparently quarters were not as tough as i thought they were.



Should i try to soak the choke/end of the barrel in a penetrating oil of some sort overnight? (If so, what oil) Toss it in the freezer maybe?

tumblr.txt
Jan 11, 2015

by zen death robot


Flatland Crusoe posted:

They don't, although stocks like comfortech are becoming more common on pumps.

Agreed, but the OP says under "Pump"

quote:

Recoil is much softer than a Double Barrel as more gas, powder and percussion escaped and not just the end of the barrel. Disadvantages include not being able to shoot as quickly as a semi or double barrel.

Which seems like someone is getting semi-auto and pump confused.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Crunkjuice posted:

Well apparently quarters were not as tough as i thought they were.



Should i try to soak the choke/end of the barrel in a penetrating oil of some sort overnight? (If so, what oil) Toss it in the freezer maybe?

Hahaha drat. Kroil?

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Soak in oil and then heat the barrel around the muzzle with a heat gun or hairdryer.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Reuben Sandwich posted:

Like the 870, I'd add a pre-2000 Remington 1100/1187 to the semi list. My father has one with a 30" fixed full for trap and a ~26" fixed skeet for skeet.

If you're buying simply for trap or skeet, I'd recommend a fixed choke. It makes cleaning easier and one less thing to check every day you shoot. (Yes I have many with fixed chokes and love them in each their own special way: trap/skeet/SC/grouse)

Can you please add about patterning the shot spread. Everyone spends lots of time sighting in a rifle but nobody will spend 10 minutes to see what the pattern of their shotgun is.

I'd still disagree since you don't have to pull a choke often if you have high temp choke oil on them and the barrel isn't where most cleaning time is spent.

I agree with having specialized shotguns, but having chokes means one can cover another role if one breaks or you need to lend guns out as shotgun shooting is often a social event. I have also broken shotguns in the middle of hunting seasons with parts on back order.

Having chokes mean you can adjust to different ammo as some clays courses are going all non-toxic and lead/steel don't act the same. This sort of transition will only become more common.

Not having the choice to adjust things is never an advantage outside of buying cheap obsolete guns.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Having to hit your chokes with anti-seize every once in a while is hardly a demanding task.

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


thermobollocks posted:

Having to hit your chokes with anti-seize every once in a while is hardly a demanding task.

I mean you say this but

NickBlasta
May 16, 2003

Clearly their proficiency at shooting is supernatural, not practical, in origin.


thermobollocks posted:

The Stoeger M3000 also comes in at under $700 for the 3-gun market, however the ones with short enough barrels are hen's teeth, and you will have to send them somewhere to get extended/go fast bits done right out of the gate. They are Turkish copies of Benelli M2s, with their associated reliability.

$450 for the gun and $80 for a Nordic tube (recommend the MOA Precision kit with their nut) and you are RDY 2 GO 4 3-GUN. The lifter is not forked or whatever so you don't have to weld it in order to have it not rape your thumb.

Lots of people will then choose to get an extended safety and larger bolt release but I feel those are subjective mods. If you wanna bevel the loading port that's naturally up to you, just be aware the serial number is basically right next to it so you might have to get creative.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

What ammo do you guys use for HD? I've been using #1 buck but it's hard to find ammo.

Also while shooting trap with my 590A1 the action got stuck a few times and I couldn't rack the slide without forcing it. Any idea what might cause that? It works fine when I dry fire it on snap caps and rack.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

Also while shooting trap with my 590A1 the action got stuck a few times and I couldn't rack the slide without forcing it. Any idea what might cause that? It works fine when I dry fire it on snap caps and rack.

Was it ever cleaned? Pumps get fowled up and require more effort to rack when dirty.

Some shells tend to be wider and become marginal in tighter chambers. I'm looking and Federal bulk ammo as the main culprit.

The shell expands to the chamber when fired, dry firing isn't really representative.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

Flatland Crusoe posted:

Was it ever cleaned? Pumps get fowled up and require more effort to rack when dirty.

Some shells tend to be wider and become marginal in tighter chambers. I'm looking and Federal bulk ammo as the main culprit.

The shell expands to the chamber when fired, dry firing isn't really representative.

It might have been a cleaning issue, I was shooting it a lot that day. The ammo was bulk Remington stuff.

ZenMastaT
Apr 4, 2005

I dun shot my dick off

I'd add the Browning Cynergy to the list of good O/Us to buy, next to the Citori. From everything I've been hearing, the Remington Versamax is also an excellent semi-auto shotgun with few QC issues coming out of modern Remington.

Also I figure the OP may be a good place to put a brief overview of some of the more common clay shooting games. I'm no world league expert so feel free to make corrections.:

Trap
"American Trap" is shot from 5 positions approx. 16 yards behind a single thrower or "house". Inside the house, hidden from view, is an oscillating clay thrower which, on command, will launch a single clay away from the shooter. Since it is rotating, the clay can come out anywhere from straight away from the shooter to steep angles to right or left. You can get lucky and get a bunch of straight shots or unlucky and receive the opposite. 5 shots are taken from each position, then everyone advances one position to the right (with the rightmost shooter returning all the way to the left to position 1). Most trap ranges I've been to are either voice activated, with little microphones on stands which are very sensitive and will launch a clay if you start talking to your neighbor, or close the action on your gun too close to them, or they have an attendant to run the course.

You can shoot trap with less than 5 people, even by yourself if the range is voice activated. However, due to the rapid nature of most trap games, you can't really share guns and - I find at least, people don't tend to spend much time talking. Different ranges may have different rules but the etiquette I've so far seen is that you load your gun as your neighbor says pull, so that you are ready to go as soon as the thrower is reset. Its never happened to me but I hear super serious trap dudes can get mad if you break the rhythm of the shoot by not shooting fast enough. Since the absolute minimum range shot is 16y and the clays are moving away at around 45MPH trap requires a fairly constrictive choke. I usually shoot Modified. I have shot cylinder guns in trap and it is possible to break clays with them but it is hard. You have to pick the clay up immediately and break it usually in under a second and usually it just makes you look like a fool. You do start shooting from a high mount in trap though, so you give yourself the advantage of a good cheekweld and sight picture before yelling "pull".

"International or Bunker" Trap is the Olympic version of the above. It's rare to find a field for it because, instead of requiring one machine, it requires 15. Each is set on a pre-determined angle but which thrower launches next is still random. The effect is to give each shooter the same game, although not in the same order, so no lucky 5 straight shots in a row. The clays are also generally moving much faster - to the point that you are allowed two shots on each target in Bunker trap, vs. only one in American. O/Us are great for this since, if you need that second shot, you probably want it to be a full choke shot. Anyway, one round of Bunker will often cost you 50 rounds of fancy competition ammo and leave you frustrated, at least at first.

"Wobble" Trap I'm not super familiar with as I've never shot it. Same with "ZZ" Trap. I understand they either use different throwers or clays to make the targets present oddly, meaning they don't fly in a precise straight line as they do in the other trap disciplines. Otherwise I believe the positions you shoot from and the etiquette etc is the same.

"Double" Trap is similar to American except the thrower launches two clays at once and doesn't oscillate. To be honest I found it boring after like one round but thats me. Oh yeah, you may have noticed that a typical trap field is arranged like a concrete fan on the ground, and pretty much everyone shoots from the narrow part of it nearest the clay house. The farther positions are handicaps, mostly seen used in competition as I understand it. Shoot too good and you have to move farther back, thereby increasing the difficulty of everything.

Skeet
"American" Skeet is my jam. I'm not a competitor or anything but its where I have the most fun. There are two throwers in American skeet, a high house and a low house. The high house is on the left as you approach the field and launches clays from about 10ft in the air across the field towards the low house (although at an angle away from it to prevent people from shooting the low house itself too much). The low house launches clays from about 3ft off the ground towards the high house. There are 8 total positions, 7 arranged in a semi-circle with position 1 directly under the high house launcher and position 7 directly adjacent to the low house launcher. Position 8 is halfway between the two houses. In skeet you shoot as a squad, so everyone is always at the same position at the same time (or else there would be much danger!) I think people typically limit squads to about 5-6, otherwise things can bog down a bit. Unlike most trap games I've shot, skeet is usually activated by a wired or wireless remote launcher by someone in the squad with you, so you don't have to worry about voice activation and, since only one person is shooting or prepared to shoot at any particular time, you can talk or congratulate/heckle each other (presuming you are all friendly). Also, since there isn't the same shooting rhythm or speed that trap involves, you could actually shoot skeet all sharing one gun, just handing it off between shooters. This would look kind of silly though, and the barrel would get loving hot quick as hell.

Anyway, position 1 is a high house shot, then a low house shot, then a double. Same with position 2, position 6 and position 7. The intervening positions 3, 4 and 5 are just a high house and then a low house shot (singles only - same with position 8). When shooting a double, you should always attempt to break the clay going away from you first. So for positions 1 and 2, that would be the high house clay, in positions 6 and 7, that would be the low house clay. That means that your second and more rushed shot is on the incoming clay which should be getting closer to you during the time you've taken to engage the first clay. At most skeet fields the positions you shoot from are marked out by a concrete square on the ground. I was taught the 'pissing in the corner' rule, basically stand like you're pissing into the top right corner of the square (if you're right handed) and shoulder the gun as it would be most comfortable to fire it over the center of the course. Every skeet course I've ever been to has a post in the middle of the field. This post is the 'ideal' spot where you should break the clay, roughly halfway between the two houses, or forward of position 8. Aim there, then, depending on what position you're shooting from, you want to track your gun roughly half way between that post and the thrower that is next going to launch.

The actual distances you want to hold for, the amount of lead you need to give at each station &c are all different but hopefully the above advice can get things to start making sense. Shoot with both eyes open and try to keep your eyes on the house itself when you yell 'pull' so you can pick up the clay immediately. You want to be swinging the gun, allow the clay to pass the muzzle as you swing, catch up to it and break it. At least when you're starting out. American skeet is theoretically the same exact game everytime, everywhere. (Not counting the hated influence of the wind, or of clays breaking as they launch from the house which can be all too common on poorly maintained throwers).

I like skeet because in my experience it is more social than trap, less regimented and doubles are more fun than singles. Plus the birds are all a lot closer in than in trap - if you want to teach someone to break clays for the first ever time, have them stand at position 1 and just launch high house after high house until they hit one. It's probably one of the easiest shots in all clay sports and nailing the double from that position is one of the simplest ways for a new player to build confidence and enjoy themselves.

"International" Skeet is hard. Like International trap above, it's the olympic version of the sport. It still only has two throwers and 8 positions but here are the differences. The clays are slightly bigger (good) and moving way way faster (bad). There is a random 0-3 second delay after you yell pull before the clay actually launches. At my local field a light goes off on the house when the button is pressed so at least you know you aren't waiting fruitlessly for a puller who didn't hear you. You shoot a double from every position except position 8. Oh yeah, don't swing past the post on position 8 - the post in the middle of the field? Start aiming at the house where the clay is coming out and then don't swing past the halfway point to hit it - let it go if you must. This is to keep you from twisting around so much you fall over and shoot the gun in the process.

Anyway, the clays are faster, random delay, doubles everywhere AND you are supposed to shoot from low gun. This means you shouldn't have the shotgun shouldered when you yell 'pull', the stock should be down around your belt line. There's a specific zone it's supposed to be in but you can worry about that once you make it to the olympics, Mr Fancy. You shoulder the gun once you actually see the clay launch. To nail a position 4 double in olympic skeet is something I may have done between 0-1 times in all the games I've shot of it. Practicing your mount at home helps, being consistent there is very important. This is also an easy way to figure out in which ways a gun doesn't fit you, as mounting it under pressure over and over will show you where things aren't quite lining up.

Oh yeah the choke to use for skeet is the "skeet" choke, amazingly enough. You could probably get away with LM or even CYL here too, since the clays are generally pretty close in. The biggest problem people always have starting out in skeet is shooting behind the target. You always need to give it more lead than you think, at first. And make sure you have a good cheekweld or else you'll shoot over it.

Sporting Clays
Someone else write this I'm tired. Basically like golf with 18 or so positions, typically 2x throwers at each position. As far as I've been able to work out, there is no specific general regulation about where/what/how these positions are arranged, so, like golf, each sporting clays field in the US is different from each other sporting clays field. You'll need the most variety of chokes here, but you get to shoot a strange, ground dwelling clay called the "rabbit" so it's all worth it in the end.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


To add to sporting clays most courses are set up as 50 round courses with 7 stations, 4x 4 pairs and 3x 3 pairs. Most places have at least 2 courses so you can shoot a 100 round course and some have 3 or 4 courses. A lot have throwers to add an extra course for tournaments in a random hay field. All targets are shot as pairs, the two types are true pairs and report pairs. True pairs launch both targets at once and report pairs launch the second bird once the first shot is fired. Each station is set up with a theme or story and generally the targets break relatively close to one another. It's rare that you would shoot something like a rabbit then transition to a overhead mallard.

With sporting clays only one shooter is shooting at a time and shoots all their targets for a station. The order of shooter rotates station by station.

5 stand is like sporting clays light. There are 5 stations in a row spaced a few yards apart. The row is straight, not an arc like skeet or trap. There are usually 6 throwers placed around with different shots like sporting clays. Each station has a menu with a single target then 2 pairs. The single you are allowed 2 shots. Each shooter shoots a presentation then the shooter to the right goes until every one has shot their 3 presentations and then you rotate stands. My experience is that 5 stand targets are usually within 30 yards and much more often 20 yards.

Sporting clays usually takes quite a while to shoot 100 rounds like 2-4 hours where as a trap, skeet and five stand are closer to 20 minutes a game/25 shots. Sporting clays mitigates some shooting fatigue since there are bigger breaks, but it's more waiting and walking/cart riding. Sporting clays guys love pumped out golf carts.

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


Wobble trap and sporting clays are the most fun for me and everyone should try them out.

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



Yeah I've only tried Sporting Clays once but it was a riot. Definitely recommend everyone give it a go.

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Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Wobble trap is great and it's also a lot easier than skeet.

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