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Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

Butch Cassidy posted:

I don't know how many interior walls are in the average goon's home, but I am looking at two at the most here for four sheets of drywall. Any of my handguns will cut through those like butter and TFR has zero problem throwing G19/TLR as a standard home defense gun.

That's a good point. Clearly the 00 Buck most people recommend has similar penetration through drywall. How much more aggressively will a slug penetrate through, and does it pose more of a threat to neighbors than a pistol round? Does the spread of a buckshot round at a typical standoff distance provide better lethality than a slug when you take into account the probability of hitting something critical?

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Cyrano4747
Sep 25, 2006



If you're running slugs in your hd shotty why not just go with a semiauto carbine

At least eliminate stress induced short stroking fr the picture plus capacity semi auto etc

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


Cyrano4747 posted:

If you're running slugs in your hd shotty why not just go with a semiauto carbine

At least eliminate stress induced short stroking fr the picture plus capacity semi auto etc

Like a Benelli R1 in .338 because gently caress bears.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



^^^ Benelli MR1 because gently caress changelings disguised as poodles.

Plenty of people only have a shotgun/are on a tight budget/whatever. We can question the initial purchase all we want, but if they already have the gun, why not use it for now? Again, I don't have a horse in this race.

The closest semiauto carbine in price to a used pump is a Hi-Point and that sure won't fly on this forum, either. While taking a pistol's tendency to over-penetrate compared to a rifle and giving the bullet a couple hundred extra FPS.

I'm just saying that if someone is keeping a 12 gauge leaning on the headboard, slugs don't appear to be a verifiably poor decision. TFR clanging the overpenetration gong every time slugs comes up is just uninformed hivemind that should be addressed. We even dissuade people from using shotguns with slugs for bear defense because they don't penetrate enough and most guides suggest fuckoff rifles. A fact that has not nudged many to see what the lead shuttlecocks actually do.

Butch Cassidy fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Mar 7, 2015

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

So basically ammo for bears and ammo for people are different.

When I'm staying in bear country I usually have a tube full of this poo poo for bears and cats. It's a pretty bad plan for indoor use, though, so you kind of have to pick what you're worried about most. Start with buckshot or frangible slugs and keep some nasty Brennekes around in case of bears, or the other way around? Hope the frangible slugs you have are going to be okay on things larger and angrier than you? If I had only a shotgun, I don't know what the best plan would be. That's why I keep the tupperware for people and reserve the shotgun for wildlife.

Shotguns are very versatile, but ammo management kind of sucks.

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004



thermobollocks posted:

When I'm staying in bear country I usually have a tube full of this poo poo for bears and cats.

quote:

Federal TruBall Deep Penetrator

MazeOfTzeentch
May 2, 2009

rip miso beno


Is it totally stupid to have an old 20ga h&r bored out from full to modified? Would getting it threaded be a better choice? Should I just not bother?

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


The French Army! posted:

I'd buy an A300 but I'll be damned it only comes with a 28" barrel. This is a deal breaker for me. What is the next best choice in the same-ish price range as the Beretta with a 24 or 26 inch barrel option? 28 is too big. It doesn't hold or point right for me with such an obnoxiously long barrel.

Hey man, hacksaws are only like $10 at Lowes.

Seriously though: there are plenty of places that will chop your barrel down and then recut it for chokes. I'd say buy the 28" gun, run it for a while, see if those extra couple inches really bother you that much and then go from there.

MohawkSatan
Dec 20, 2008

by Cyrano4747


MazeOfTzeentch posted:

Is it totally stupid to have an old 20ga h&r bored out from full to modified? Would getting it threaded be a better choice? Should I just not bother?

a) no, it is't stupid because it's not a historical firearm so do whatever you want so long as it's enjoyable. It's an H&R shotgun, they're solid beaters. It's more surprising there's any left in original condition, if anything

b) If the boring is done by a decently competent machinist/gunsmith, then they could probably thread it for an internal choke for you, so long as you've got something specific in mind and can tell them what it is. Knowing what kind of thread form/lead angle/TPI it is would be the major parts, out side of "is this physically loving possible"

Drav
Jul 23, 2002

We've come a long way since that day, and we will never look back at the faded silhouette.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

That's a good point. Clearly the 00 Buck most people recommend has similar penetration through drywall. How much more aggressively will a slug penetrate through, and does it pose more of a threat to neighbors than a pistol round? Does the spread of a buckshot round at a typical standoff distance provide better lethality than a slug when you take into account the probability of hitting something critical?

I think either choice is more than lethal enough. I would personally use the buckshot just because it is less to go wrong.

Coxswain Balls
Jun 3, 2001



What kind of clay shooting can you do with a short barreled, full cylinder gun, if it's at all feasible? A buddy of mine is thinking of getting a pallet of ammo and a clay thrower, which will make for some fun times when people come to visit. My shotgun is a 12.5" 870 clone I got for peanuts as a slug gun for camping though, which doesn't sound like it's fit for the task. I'm not looking to be good at it, just to have fun, but is it just going to be an exercise in futility?

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Whoah, a shotgun that makes the Magpul pump furniture look good. The pump just works with the flush barrel.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

Drav posted:

I think either choice is more than lethal enough. I would personally use the buckshot just because it is less to go wrong.

I'm inclined to agree, especially since "shotgun with buckshot" is the universal standard for home defense from a jury perspective.

Cleaned my 590A1 tonight. Gotta love how it all comes together.

Mortabis
Jul 8, 2010


Coxswain Balls posted:

What kind of clay shooting can you do with a short barreled, full cylinder gun, if it's at all feasible? A buddy of mine is thinking of getting a pallet of ammo and a clay thrower, which will make for some fun times when people come to visit. My shotgun is a 12.5" 870 clone I got for peanuts as a slug gun for camping though, which doesn't sound like it's fit for the task. I'm not looking to be good at it, just to have fun, but is it just going to be an exercise in futility?



I've seen people shoot clay with 18" barrel shotguns. It works but not well.

Soupisgood
Dec 5, 2012


Cyrano4747 posted:

If you're running slugs in your hd shotty why not just go with a semiauto carbine

At least eliminate stress induced short stroking fr the picture plus capacity semi auto etc

It would be pretty tough for me to short stroke a mossberg 930, and all my semi auto carbines are m16a1/colt 605 clones or folding stock AKs so not ideal.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



I kept a folding-stock VZ 58 as a home dfense rifle for a while. Regret nothing

Internet Wizard
Aug 9, 2009

BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES



I don't think I've seen a single test that showed slugs as a better home-defense choice than the smaller rifle rounds your ARs and AKs are most likely to be chambered in.

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011





Biscuit Hider

Coxswain Balls posted:

What kind of clay shooting can you do with a short barreled, full cylinder gun, if it's at all feasible? A buddy of mine is thinking of getting a pallet of ammo and a clay thrower, which will make for some fun times when people come to visit. My shotgun is a 12.5" 870 clone I got for peanuts as a slug gun for camping though, which doesn't sound like it's fit for the task. I'm not looking to be good at it, just to have fun, but is it just going to be an exercise in futility?



With the cylinder barrel, you're going to be confined to pretty much only informal clay throwing. Like the hand chucker, or manual machine, where you stand pretty much right next to where the clay is thrown/launched from. The shortest of short range shots will be alright. I tried actual trap with my 12.5" Grizzly once for shits and giggles. If I got on target and shot the bird almost immediately out of the house I could get it, but if I took a fraction of a second longer, I missed. For comparison, I normally score 22+ out of 25 in a round of trap, and with the grizz, I scored 5. It's not a problem out in the bush with a hand chucker though. The shots are much closer. I haven't brought it out for skeet though. Mostly because of the difference in culture between shooting trap on Saltspring with the good ol' boys, and skeet at clubs where they are more serious about their shotgun games.

Can you tell me what stock and forend those are? Did the forend take any loving around to fit on your gun?

Soupisgood
Dec 5, 2012


Internet Wizard posted:

I don't think I've seen a single test that showed slugs as a better home-defense choice than the smaller rifle rounds your ARs and AKs are most likely to be chambered in.

Yeah but that scope isn't too good for home defense.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

Coxswain Balls posted:

What kind of clay shooting can you do with a short barreled, full cylinder gun, if it's at all feasible? A buddy of mine is thinking of getting a pallet of ammo and a clay thrower, which will make for some fun times when people come to visit. My shotgun is a 12.5" 870 clone I got for peanuts as a slug gun for camping though, which doesn't sound like it's fit for the task. I'm not looking to be good at it, just to have fun, but is it just going to be an exercise in futility?



I take out clays all the time with my 590A1. I'm terrible at it, but it gets me a chance to cycle rounds through it and get used to holding things. I've also done it with a 22" Saiga-12 because who loving cares. If you're worried then 870 barrels are pretty cheap. Better yet do what I do and have everybody shoot clays with, loser buys beer.

B33rChiller posted:

Can you tell me what stock and forend those are? Did the forend take any loving around to fit on your gun?

Looks like Magpul.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Soupisgood posted:

Yeah but that scope isn't too good for home defense.

That's why the mount still lets you use the irons

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

I just won an auction for an 1897 magazine off of Ebay for way too much money, but it's a tiny bit cheaper than what they cost at Numrich. It feels like a rip off but I guess that's supply and demand for you. This better fix my loving shotgun.

The Pigeon
Feb 8, 2008

I have nothing to say here.


College Slice

Coxswain Balls posted:

What kind of clay shooting can you do with a short barreled, full cylinder gun, if it's at all feasible? A buddy of mine is thinking of getting a pallet of ammo and a clay thrower, which will make for some fun times when people come to visit. My shotgun is a 12.5" 870 clone I got for peanuts as a slug gun for camping though, which doesn't sound like it's fit for the task. I'm not looking to be good at it, just to have fun, but is it just going to be an exercise in futility?



That's the joy of shotguns. Just go out, throw some clays and blast away. Sure you may not hit all of them, but you'll have a lot of fun trying. If all you are looking to do is have fun, don't get caught up in the "correct" gun. If it'll launch pellets into the sky, you will likely figure it out enough to break some clays. I have had friends bring their sawed off grip only shotguns out and we had more fun trying to hit clays with that than the more traditional guns. If all else fails, and when your arm gets tired of throwing clays, go set them up on the ground as stationary targets and have fun with both shotguns and .22s. Just keep it safe, and everyone involved will likely have a good time.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!


On the topic of 930s it has been truly weird... Two separate PA goons got what seem like total lemons of 930 Field semis.

What I haven't been able to confirm is whether or not some early iterations of the Mossberg 930 have some kind of bad QC. We also suspected that there was a slight modification to the gas system that corrected issues in later model guns.

There is also some kind of preservative on the Mossberg guns that should be thoroughly cleaned off first. I did so with mine and I haven't had a single weird issue at all. The only time I have had a click but no bang is with really cheap range ammo. Like I'm talking "delayed ignition in an O/U" cheap.

That being said my 930 All Purpose is a great middle of the pack semi for gun games. I have no input on the suitability of it for hunting. I've also yet to clean my 930 JM (after the initial post purchase cleaning) since I'm trying to replicate the problems people have had running it dirty. But hundreds of Remington Gun Club shells later it refuses to do anything bad.

But as with the two lemons PA goons got... YMMV. I wouldn't trust my life to my 930s.

Soupisgood
Dec 5, 2012


My 930 runs perfectly fine with everything other then low recoil buckshot. Birdshot, buck, slugs go through it without trouble, but the cheap buckshot I picked up that is low brass doesn't cycle more than a shot or two at a time.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


The difference between a 930 and A300/Benelli M2 is that the Beretta and Benelli will run a decade or so between any failure while being dragged through the mud and thrown in the hulls of duck boats. Two years ago I bought my A300 to replace my 20 gauge AL390, took it out of the box and went and shot a limit of doves with it in September and in November it got pushed off a duck boat and spent 30 minutes submerged in 2 feet of water, it was later that day sprayed down in oil and wasn't detail stripped for 2 more days and ran fine afterwards with zero rust.

From a reliability stand point 7/8 oz and lighter 2.75" shells are the hardest to cycling in any autoloader and then the lighter 3" loads since you gain extra shell length without tons of recoil. Considering an A400 or super Vinci can run 7/8 oz 2.75" target loads to 3.5" 2+oz turkey loads the bar isn't set high for the 930 at 7/8 oz to 1.5oz of 2.75 to 3" shells relative to what exists on the market. Hell even the Versamax can run 2.75" to 3.5" shells.

That said I don't consider even the good semiauto shotguns to be statistically as reliable as any duty handgun nor as easy to manipulate under pressure which I think creates many more failures. All of that comes at 3 times the price of a Glock.

The 930 is good because it has features that don't exist until you double it's price. It isn't good relative to what exist on the shotgun market and I would consider the core gun to be in the lower half of what's out there. The 930 is better than most any 20 year old used semiauto and it cost about one dinner out more than a Benelli Super Nova pump.

They each have their faults, Beretta can never hold more than 4 rounds and the Benelli suffers from inertia problems like accessories creating reliability questions. The 930 is the unquestionable champion of entry level 3 gun and I'm pretty sure I could keep one running just fine with regular maintenance.

skitzed
Oct 8, 2004
I don't know what I'm doing.

Flatland Crusoe posted:

That said I don't consider even the good semiauto shotguns to be statistically as reliable as any duty handgun nor as easy to manipulate under pressure which I think creates many more failures. All of that comes at 3 times the price of a Glock.

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of the Beretta 1301 tactical/comp?

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


skitzed posted:

Out of curiosity, what's your opinion of the Beretta 1301 tactical/comp?

Well despite my experience with the 390/300 series the gas system has to be a different larger diameter on the 3901 for the shells to go thru the piston where as the 300/390 this was never possible. I can't imagine they wouldn't be good shotguns, but the market support for the M2 would drive me that direction.

The Beretta gas guns and Benelli inertia guns essentially run and shoot the same way with pretty similar recoil reduction and controls. The only difference is the lack of a gas position and slide bars back to the Benelli bolt from the foreend.

I think it's a shame the 1301 doesn't have kick-off because those really make a difference. It's my only regret for not having an A400 over an A300.

skitzed
Oct 8, 2004
I don't know what I'm doing.

It looks like people are saying the 1301 can be fitted with the A400 kick off. Does the kick off compare favorably to the M2's comfortech?

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


skitzed posted:

It looks like people are saying the 1301 can be fitted with the A400 kick off. Does the kick off compare favorably to the M2's comfortech?

I think kick off is better than comfortech. It's a much more active mechanical system than comfortech.

The A400 with KO is the lightest kicking 12 gauge I have ever shot.

If you want to be a real ballet fit the 1301 with the digital shot counter in the stock.

z06ck
Dec 22, 2010



Internet Wizard posted:

I don't think I've seen a single test that showed slugs as a better home-defense choice than the smaller rifle rounds your ARs and AKs are most likely to be chambered in.

the most run on run on run on sentence

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

Weeeeeelp after paying for a new magazine tube for my 1897. I was installing it today and I realized that the action slide spring on the old one was installed on the wrong half of the tube. So that is almost certainly what was causing the thread jumping issues when firing. What I'm wondering now is if there has been permanent damage done, or if I can get away will still using the old tube (which has a matching parkerized finish).

I feel like a loving retard for not realizing this earlier. The moment it hit me was when I had to take the little bar at the top off to get the action slide spring off and I was like "wait a minute, I've never had to do this before..."

e: just got back from the range. Looks like the old mag tube is hosed permanently. Long live the new magtube! I tested it with bird shot, buckshot, and a slug, and there were no malfunctions at all!


SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Mar 15, 2015

LordOfThePants
Sep 25, 2002



I think a couple people own Beretta A300 Outlanders here, can you tell me how wide the vent rib is at the front site? I'm going to try and pick up an A300 on the way home from a work trip on Friday and want to order a fiber optic site from Amazon so it's here when get home with my new gun. I'm not having much luck finding that info online this morning.

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


I use the meadows crossbrite and it has a tiny but of overhang. I won't be home till 9 tonight, if no one posts it by then I'll measure mine.

Flatland Crusoe
Jan 12, 2011

Great White Hunter
Master Race

Let me explain why I'm better than you


LordOfThePants posted:

I think a couple people own Beretta A300 Outlanders here, can you tell me how wide the vent rib is at the front site? I'm going to try and pick up an A300 on the way home from a work trip on Friday and want to order a fiber optic site from Amazon so it's here when get home with my new gun. I'm not having much luck finding that info online this morning.

I think they are 6mm. That's the standard beretta width. I have an adhesive fiber optic on mine.

B33rChiller
Aug 18, 2011





Biscuit Hider

Flatland Crusoe posted:

I think they are 6mm. That's the standard beretta width. I have an adhesive fiber optic on mine.
I confirm.
Just measured mine @ 6mm.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Is there any consensus on CZ semi-auto shotguns? A guy is offering me one as a trade. MSRP is $579 on this particular model, and it looks like they can be had on gunbroker for $500.

Further important question - does anyone make a magazine extension for them? They sell a "practical" model with a 9-shot magazine.

Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

Do you guys have any recommendations for a good shotgun that can readily be used for hunting? Barrel length, manufacture, etc? Mostly I would be interested in hunting deer. MD regulations require shotguns for deer hunting in most counties, and no more than three rounds capacity. I was thinking a double barrel would be good.

SpartanIvy
May 18, 2007


Hair Elf

It's hard to beat a Mossberg 500 for price and usability. You can a used one for $200ish and plug the magazine tube to 3 rounds somewhat easily.

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Beer4TheBeerGod
Aug 23, 2004

"I'm cisgender heterosexual white American male.

Fuck you for telling me what "my part" is."

- B4TBG on why they can't be criticized by minorities for being wrong because


Exciting Lemon

SpartanIV posted:

It's hard to beat a Mossberg 500 for price and usability. You can a used one for $200ish and plug the magazine tube to 3 rounds somewhat easily.

Actually I own a 590A1, I just didn't think it would be appropriate for hunting. I guess I could frankenstein something with it.

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