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alo
May 1, 2005
a mere salesman

Mudslide Experiment

Shaocaholica posted:

I meant home enthusiasts. Or did that crowd use tapes?

There were consumer-level (IDE) tape drives. Although in the 90's, most people still stored their "work" in physical mediums (film negatives, physical file cabinets full of papers, music on tapes -- sometimes DAT). Everything else fit nicely on floppy disks.

Windows backup supported tape until recently. There were also CD burners at the end of the 90's. Oh and zip disks...

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


brylcreem posted:

I (re)read the OP, but there's nothing about those options in there?

I use Spideroak with 1TB of space to back up (sync?) all my user-generated data (My Documents, Pictures, Videos, porn). What's the trouble with that?

(p.s. no, I don't make my own porn!)

Wow, you're right. I know I wrote up something, but I must have somehow left it out.

I'll add it back to the OP soon, but the biggest part of it is that most (all?) of these services don't have mass restore options to previous versions. The line between file sync and backup is getting increasingly blurry, but that one thing is a big differentiator.

Sync services great if you need to pull down a few files or the latest version of everything, but you're screwed if you get something that trashes a large segment of your stuff or, worse, something like Cryptolocker that requires a mass restore to a previous version of mostly everything.

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Saw someone link Veeam Endpoint Backup in another thread here in SH/SC and it looks pretty good.

From looking here it seems to have that ol' Time Machine thing going where you can jump back to several different points in the past.

Question is, is it any good? Anyone know? They want me to make an account to download it, I want to know if it's worth bothering.


I dread switching over to yet another one though. I actually have several old Acronis Images lying around, as wel as Clonezilla and Macrium Reflect ones. Nothing important, but, poo poo, someone should write a conversion tool.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Flipperwaldt posted:

Saw someone link Veeam Endpoint Backup in another thread here in SH/SC and it looks pretty good.

From looking here it seems to have that ol' Time Machine thing going where you can jump back to several different points in the past.

Question is, is it any good? Anyone know? They want me to make an account to download it, I want to know if it's worth bothering.


I dread switching over to yet another one though. I actually have several old Acronis Images lying around, as wel as Clonezilla and Macrium Reflect ones. Nothing important, but, poo poo, someone should write a conversion tool.

I've not (yet) had the opportunity to use their Endpoint backup, but their VM backups are amazing.

brylcreem
Oct 29, 2007



ConfusedUs posted:

[T]he biggest part of it is that most (all?) of these services don't have mass restore options to previous versions. The line between file sync and backup is getting increasingly blurry, but that one thing is a big differentiator.

Sync services great if you need to pull down a few files or the latest version of everything, but you're screwed if you get something that trashes a large segment of your stuff or, worse, something like Cryptolocker that requires a mass restore to a previous version of mostly everything.

Yes, I can see that.

Thanks for the replies, both of you!

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


ConfusedUs posted:

I've not (yet) had the opportunity to use their Endpoint backup, but their VM backups are amazing.

Oddly enough, I just came into here to complain about Veeam!

To be fair, it's an issue that has since been fixed, but one of our clients is on Veeam Backup 6.5, and it has a peculiar little quirk...it can't restore files/folders if the path name is over 260 characters.

I had to do a restore today for that client and the folder they needed restored had layers upon layers of sub-folders, so almost half of the files couldn't be restored natively in Veeam.

Thankfully, there is a workaround, since the FLR mounts the VMDK being restored from as a local temp folder, so I could just use Robocopy to get them where I needed...still a pain in my butt, though.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


DrBouvenstein posted:

Oddly enough, I just came into here to complain about Veeam!

To be fair, it's an issue that has since been fixed, but one of our clients is on Veeam Backup 6.5, and it has a peculiar little quirk...it can't restore files/folders if the path name is over 260 characters.

I had to do a restore today for that client and the folder they needed restored had layers upon layers of sub-folders, so almost half of the files couldn't be restored natively in Veeam.

Thankfully, there is a workaround, since the FLR mounts the VMDK being restored from as a local temp folder, so I could just use Robocopy to get them where I needed...still a pain in my butt, though.

That's actually a really common problem on Windows systems. Blame MS for making a maximum path length way back in the day, and preserving it for backwards compatibility reasons to this day. This isn't an issue unique to Veeam.

This is a pretty complex topic once you start digging into the technical stuff. I think the max path length for NTFS is actually like 32k characters, and there are ways for applications to allow lengths like that through various APIs.

But what happens if Program-A puts a long path object somewhere, and then Program-B doesn't know how to deal with it? What if Program-C uses a completely different method and doesn't understand Program-A's stuff?

So in short, there are ways around the max path length, but they kinda get flaky when you start interacting with other functions/programs that don't use those workarounds or use different ones entirely. Many applications just honor the max path length to avoid the headache.

I don't really have a lot of advice here except, maybe, reconsider your folder structures if they're long enough for this to cause you problems on a regular basis. You might also be able to set up some symlinks using the 'subst' command. Like linking C:\Some\Crazy\long\path to X:\

ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at Apr 28, 2015 around 20:04

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.


I figured it was for some legacy reason, but it still seems weird to me that Veeam was able to both backup AND mount these long folder/file names, but just not restore them.

As far as folder structure goes, I don't have much say in the matter...our client's going to do whatever they want with their shared folders.

I do know, however, that within a month they'll be off of Veeam and using a Barracuda appliance anyway, so no sense in asking them to upgrade to Veeam 7.0, which doesn't have that problem.

wyoak
Feb 14, 2005

a glass case of emotion


Fallen Rib

Flipperwaldt posted:

OneDrive (and I'm guessing DropBox) in particular do not keep previous versions and sync in real time. Which means if you corrupt a file locally, that file will instantly be mirrored in the cloud with no way to recover a good version. You're somewhat protected from a device or drive instantly dying, but that's it. No protection against crypto-poo poo, no protection against user error, no protection against a slowly dying drive or faulty ram.

From what I'm reading Spideroak does keep a file history, so it can probably qualify properly as a backup.

Dropbox does have previous versions (30 days by default, you can purchase one year as an addon).

Acer Pilot
Feb 17, 2007
put the 'the' in therapist





I'm thinking about getting a Dropbox Pro account. Any negatives aside from the 30 day only file history? Are there ways to prevent accidentally pushing corrupted files?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Acer Pilot posted:

I'm thinking about getting a Dropbox Pro account. Any negatives aside from the 30 day only file history? Are there ways to prevent accidentally pushing corrupted files?

It'll push any changes. It can't differentiate changes of one type from another.

Make sure you can restore folders or groups of files to a past version. Last time I tried, you could only restore to the latest; everything else was one at a time.

Fine if you deleted a spreadsheet. Sucks if you get Crypto viruses. This is why Dropbox isn't a true backup solution.

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



Is there anything that can reliably back up from a Nas4Free setup?

I could probably upgrade/migrate/something if necessary as long as zfs is still an option.

worst case would maybe be doing this via network shares on a Windows machine, I'm not sure I care a lot as long as it at least gets backed up monthly since I usually keep recent work in Google Drive and the NAS is my archive.

I lost a drive, and while I'm replacing it I have a thought that maybe I do need this stuff backed up.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Telex posted:

Is there anything that can reliably back up from a Nas4Free setup?

I could probably upgrade/migrate/something if necessary as long as zfs is still an option.

worst case would maybe be doing this via network shares on a Windows machine, I'm not sure I care a lot as long as it at least gets backed up monthly since I usually keep recent work in Google Drive and the NAS is my archive.

I lost a drive, and while I'm replacing it I have a thought that maybe I do need this stuff backed up.

Could you script something with robocopy or rsync?

Otherwise, there's tons of software that can back up Windows network shares. On the cheap end, Crashplan can do it.

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



ConfusedUs posted:

Could you script something with robocopy or rsync?

Otherwise, there's tons of software that can back up Windows network shares. On the cheap end, Crashplan can do it.

poo poo sorry, I mean a cloud backup, preferably automated. I already do a robocopy from Windows -> NAS regularly, but I realize now that I need it offsite just in case.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Telex posted:

poo poo sorry, I mean a cloud backup, preferably automated. I already do a robocopy from Windows -> NAS regularly, but I realize now that I need it offsite just in case.

What's your budget? There's not a whole lot of cloud options on the cheap end. Most automatic, continuous sync backups don't let you back up network shares, because they're often large. If you want cheap, you're looking at Crashplan (may require some kind of workaround) or some kind of automated upload to Amazon Glacier, probably.

Edit: to clarify, there's not a whole lot of cloud options that work with network shares on the cheap end. If you have local disks, you have a bazillion options

ConfusedUs fucked around with this message at Apr 30, 2015 around 20:36

Telex
Feb 11, 2003



ConfusedUs posted:

What's your budget? There's not a whole lot of cloud options on the cheap end. Most automatic, continuous sync backups don't let you back up network shares, because they're often large. If you want cheap, you're looking at Crashplan (may require some kind of workaround) or some kind of automated upload to Amazon Glacier, probably.

Maybe not a ton. I was hoping for one of those 10/mo or less ones that maybe had something you can hack together in FreeBSD.

I may just do a manual upload to Glacier, since it's probably going to be the cheapest for 1-2TB worth of what I care about.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E


*Not backup related*

I used to use Copy to keep a set of my working project files sync'd across a few systems. What I don't like is that it likes to download everything when I install the client onto a new system. Is there a way to get it to just show some sparse representation of a real file and if I choose to open that file or manually sync then it downloads the latest? If not, is there a service that does? I don't want to download gigs of files in the background only to work on something that might be 10Kb.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Shaocaholica posted:

*Not backup related*

I used to use Copy to keep a set of my working project files sync'd across a few systems. What I don't like is that it likes to download everything when I install the client onto a new system. Is there a way to get it to just show some sparse representation of a real file and if I choose to open that file or manually sync then it downloads the latest? If not, is there a service that does? I don't want to download gigs of files in the background only to work on something that might be 10Kb.

Dropbox?

Avulsion
Feb 12, 2006
I never knew what hit me

Shaocaholica posted:

*Not backup related*

I used to use Copy to keep a set of my working project files sync'd across a few systems. What I don't like is that it likes to download everything when I install the client onto a new system. Is there a way to get it to just show some sparse representation of a real file and if I choose to open that file or manually sync then it downloads the latest? If not, is there a service that does? I don't want to download gigs of files in the background only to work on something that might be 10Kb.

If you're running windows 8.1, onedrive have has an online-only mode that keeps everything on the cloud and downloads files on demand. It doesn't seem to be an option in the windows 7 client however.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E



Hmm, haven't used that in even longer. I'll give it a try....again

edit: dropbox and copy seem to behave about the same. You can choose which dirs/files to sync but you can't 'sparse' anything. So the only way to see what you actually have is via the file browser in the app and not anything on disk like a dummy file. It'd be nice to see some more native filesystem integration.

Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at May 7, 2015 around 07:26

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012



Grimey Drawer

Any commvault to swift backup guys here? Can you shed some light on this mystical error code.


Press '1' to continue or '0' to back to the previous menu [1]:
Failed to check Container [CommVault] status, error: Error = 44088

wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Single cylinder posting

ConfusedUs posted:

To get the ball rolling, I figure I'll post my home backup scheme!

My primary storage for my home is a Synology NAS. All of my laptops/desktops (I have four in my home) back up to the NAS daily. The macs use Time Machine for this.

The NAS itself is backed up to an external harddrive every day and to the cloud once a week.

This gives me three layers of redundancy (NAS + EHD + CLOUD) for all my regular systems, and the NAS itself has two layers (EHD + Cloud).

how are you using time machine with a non-time capsule NAS?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


be nice wicka posted:

how are you using time machine with a non-time capsule NAS?

https://www.synology.com/en-global/...e/tutorials/608

wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Single cylinder posting


but my understanding was that time machine only technically supported time capsule, and that to use any other NAS or network share you had to enable unsupported network volumes. is that not the case? or is synology doing something tricky here?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


be nice wicka posted:

but my understanding was that time machine only technically supported time capsule, and that to use any other NAS or network share you had to enable unsupported network volumes. is that not the case? or is synology doing something tricky here?

Frankly, it just works (lol), well enough that I've never questioned how. I didn't even know there was such a restriction. My professional focus is Windows backups.

wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Single cylinder posting

ConfusedUs posted:

Frankly, it just works (lol), well enough that I've never questioned how. I didn't even know there was such a restriction. My professional focus is Windows backups.

looks like western digital has the same feature on their "my cloud" stuff. i wonder if that was an old restriction and something has changed recently.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005





Something I've been liking recently is Sweet Home! - free android app to auto backup your photos to a network share over WiFi. The interface is janky as hell, but once you get it set up it will auto sync your photos when you're connected to power + home WiFi.

Then I just include the folder in my s3 backup.

socialsecurity
Aug 30, 2003


blunt posted:

Something I've been liking recently is Sweet Home! - free android app to auto backup your photos to a network share over WiFi. The interface is janky as hell, but once you get it set up it will auto sync your photos when you're connected to power + home WiFi.

Then I just include the folder in my s3 backup.

Eh, I just let Google Drive take all my photos for ease even if they use photos of me pooping for marketing whatever.

blunt
Jul 7, 2005





socialsecurity posted:

Eh, I just let Google Drive take all my photos for ease even if they use photos of me pooping for marketing whatever.

Yeah I can understand that, I used to just use Dropbox camera sync, but I've come to really like having the intermediary layer so that I can filter out photos of tax documents and penises before they hit someone else's cloud.

Fruit Smoothies
Mar 28, 2004

The bat with a ZING

I have a number of small business clients all of whom use Windows Backup (Server 2012 R2) to backup to a NAS in another building (they're all multi-office). My question is a basic one: Would the cloud backup simply upload the VHDX files et al. from the NAS? Because that's a big upload every night. Or can it do more clever, differential block changes?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Depends on the product and your own snapshot/backup plans. Are you pointing the backup at the same file in the same place? Or are you pointing it at a new file that's a copy/backup of the original?

If it's the same file with some changes, most (not all) will upload just the changed blocks or offer some form of incremental backup.

If you're copying/backing up a whole new file each night, virtually all products will treat it as a new file and upload the whole thing.

NevergirlsOFFICIAL
Apr 24, 2004



Fruit Smoothies posted:

I have a number of small business clients all of whom use Windows Backup (Server 2012 R2) to backup to a NAS in another building (they're all multi-office). My question is a basic one: Would the cloud backup simply upload the VHDX files et al. from the NAS? Because that's a big upload every night. Or can it do more clever, differential block changes?

I don't know anything about windows backup when it comes to VM but if you need a cheap solution for vms take a look at veeam free: http://www.veeam.com/virtual-machin...ution-free.html

Fruit Smoothies
Mar 28, 2004

The bat with a ZING

ConfusedUs posted:

Depends on the product and your own snapshot/backup plans. Are you pointing the backup at the same file in the same place? Or are you pointing it at a new file that's a copy/backup of the original?

If it's the same file with some changes, most (not all) will upload just the changed blocks or offer some form of incremental backup.

If you're copying/backing up a whole new file each night, virtually all products will treat it as a new file and upload the whole thing.

The dataset is relatively small, so a full backup is done to the same location every night. I'm not sure how good the UK reseller of CrashPlan is, and if it's even suitable to host Windows Backup sets.

NevergirlsOFFICIAL
Apr 24, 2004



datto pwn:
http://silentbreaksecurity.com/tearing-apart-a-datto/

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!



That's actually kind of fascinating.

Maneki Neko
Oct 27, 2000



ConfusedUs posted:

That's actually kind of fascinating.

And a really nice vendor response.

Flashing Twelve
Mar 20, 2007



I've got about 500GB of data I want to upload to a cloud backup solution. The fastest internet I have available to me is metered residential ADSL so it's going to take several months to upload it. Is there a service somewhere I can post my hard drive to and have them upload to my cloud for me?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Flashing Twelve posted:

I've got about 500GB of data I want to upload to a cloud backup solution. The fastest internet I have available to me is metered residential ADSL so it's going to take several months to upload it. Is there a service somewhere I can post my hard drive to and have them upload to my cloud for me?

The term you are looking for is "seeding".

If you are in the U.S, crashplan offers a seeding option. Other services may also offer seeding.

However, keep recovery times in mind too. If speed matters, make sure your solution offers a recovery by mail option.

nessin
Feb 7, 2010


ConfusedUs posted:

Could you script something with robocopy or rsync?

Otherwise, there's tons of software that can back up Windows network shares. On the cheap end, Crashplan can do it.

I know this is an old post (couple months), but CrashPlan does not work with Windows network shares unless you tweak it. CrashPlan will run as the system account, and will only see shares mounted as the system user. That's one reason I came to this thread, the Synology package for CrashPlan is busted again, I don't feel like toying with it even more, and I'm looking for an alternative. If CrashPlan didn't require me to remount my shares on startup I'd be happy to keep using that and just backup my NAS via shared folders but no dice.

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Could you script the mounting and have it run on a schedule or something?

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