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thebigcow
Jan 3, 2001

Bully!

Have you looked at http://www.veeam.com/endpoint-backu...ad=in-text-link

edit: The brochure specifically mentions tape drives but has no details beyond that.

thebigcow fucked around with this message at Oct 27, 2015 around 18:44

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ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Amanda community edition is free, but I think the Windows client is part of the paid Amanda Enterprise suite. Also, you'd need a linux server to run the amanda server. But hey, both definitely work with tape drives.

Veeam endpoint is nice, don't know if it interfaces with tapes or not.

Have you considered getting a couple of external HDDs and just rotating them off-site once a week or so?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010
I'm conducting an experiment to see if removing your shitty avatar will improve your shitty taste in black metal

This Black Friday I want to get an SSD and something approaching a backup system. For backups, a full-blown NAS is out of the current budget (maybe I'll ask larches about Buffalo's offerings ). I'm thinking of getting a ~2tb external for now. Is there a way to keep it hooked up physically, but only have it recognized when I actually want it to back up? I want to automate backups, but not have it connected 24/7 in case of cryptowall. I could write a batch or powershell script for it if I need to, I just want to make sure the idea is feasible.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


22 Eargesplitten posted:

This Black Friday I want to get an SSD and something approaching a backup system. For backups, a full-blown NAS is out of the current budget (maybe I'll ask larches about Buffalo's offerings ). I'm thinking of getting a ~2tb external for now. Is there a way to keep it hooked up physically, but only have it recognized when I actually want it to back up? I want to automate backups, but not have it connected 24/7 in case of cryptowall. I could write a batch or powershell script for it if I need to, I just want to make sure the idea is feasible.

Maybe mount/unmount it through the mountvol command?

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010
I'm conducting an experiment to see if removing your shitty avatar will improve your shitty taste in black metal

Sweet, that looks like it should work.

Stoca Zola
Jun 28, 2008



ConfusedUs posted:

Amanda community edition is free, but I think the Windows client is part of the paid Amanda Enterprise suite. Also, you'd need a linux server to run the amanda server. But hey, both definitely work with tape drives.

Veeam endpoint is nice, don't know if it interfaces with tapes or not.

Have you considered getting a couple of external HDDs and just rotating them off-site once a week or so?

Cheers for the veeam info, I'd heard of that for vm monitoring stuff but hadn't really looked any further. I'll give it a bash. I saw binaries for the Amanda windows client but that looked like it would add a bit much complexity to be worth it for now. I can probably add an Amanda Linux vm but then no idea if that will be able to interface with the tape drive.

We did once use portable disks as back up but they kept failing and I don't have any money to keep replacing them - that's why I got excited about a 6 year old server and LTO 2 tapes, they're free.

Edit: nope Veeam endpoint won't do tapes, unless used with non-free backup and replicate tool.

Stoca Zola fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2015 around 05:08

EconOutlines
Jul 3, 2004



Anybody have some good ideas for regular VPS backups? Mainly a full image backup along with snapshots every so often. Its nothing mission critical, just holds my ZNC, a CLI version of Dropbox, VPN, etc but its something I'd like to have and learn how to do.

VPS is located across the US and, at most, is 50GB when its full. I don't mind paying for a good service, that way if I mess something up I can simply roll back or re-image.

JBark
Jun 27, 2000
Good passwords are a good idea.

ConfusedUs posted:

Wow that's a hell of a lucky story.

Also, man, 15-20 years ago is a HELL of a long time. Is there a reason you keep backups from that long ago?

Mainly the previous IT guys were insane packrats, and whenever I tried to get rid of anything after I took over, I always got "well, we might need it someday" from the higher-ups. There is patent stuff involved, so I suppose I really can't fault them for keeping stuff from around the original filing date, but it sure it would have been nice to just have a simple set of EOFY tapes or a Patent XXXX backup archive or something like that. Instead, I've got a dozen metal briefcases stuffed completely full of poorly labelled tapes.


Unrelated to my backup stuff, and in regards to free backups, there's also the Unitrends free edition. It's not all that useful if you're wanting application aware backups of say Exchange or SQL, but just file level backups should be fine. It supports VMs, and it's default setup is to backup to local storage, and then you configure archives to tape. I gave it a test here recently at a remote site, and it did the job, but nothing amazing. If you use the Spiceworks promo code SPICYUEB when registering the free edition, it does let you do a couple application aware backups too. In the end, I found the backup speed was so poor because the fixed compression they use during the backup is only single threaded and was maxing out the single core it was using. So I was only getting like 30MB/sec. writing to a local RAID10. You can supposedly disable this compression in the advanced settings and get a pretty enormous boost in speed, but I didn't have enough local storage to hold all the backups with compression completely off.

In the end it was just too much hassle to work around all the quirks, and since I was backing up to a couple USB drives I was able to get away with some wbadmin scheduled tasks. But in the case of a simple backup of some files to local storage, then archive to tape, it might do the trick.

JBark fucked around with this message at Oct 28, 2015 around 05:47

Stoca Zola
Jun 28, 2008



Cheers, archive to tape might be good enough for my needs. Amanda looks like a lost cause at this stage since I can't work out how to access the tape drive from inside a VM. Waaaait a second, unitrends runs in a VM too? OK maybe I don't need backup software, maybe all I need is tape archiving software. Back to Google!

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


JBark posted:

I always got "well, we might need it someday" from the higher-ups.

This is great, until there's a lawsuit, and you get a subpoena for all of your emails, and now the lawyers have 20 years of stuff to search for ammo.

Think of it this way: have you, at any time in the last 20 years, written even one email whose contents you wouldn't want to show up in a court of law? What about your loud-mouthed buddy in the cube next door? Or that boorish sales guy across the hall? Or the CEO who can't help but refer to "those people"?

JBark
Jun 27, 2000
Good passwords are a good idea.

ConfusedUs posted:

This is great, until there's a lawsuit, and you get a subpoena for all of your emails, and now the lawyers have 20 years of stuff to search for ammo.

Think of it this way: have you, at any time in the last 20 years, written even one email whose contents you wouldn't want to show up in a court of law? What about your loud-mouthed buddy in the cube next door? Or that boorish sales guy across the hall? Or the CEO who can't help but refer to "those people"?

Believe me, you're preaching to the choir. I've given this same reasoning, but to deaf ears. The real solution would be to go through all the old poo poo once and actually archive what might be relevant, then get rid of everything. But who wants to be the poor sap that has to spend weeks/months wading through ancient email archives? Not me, that's for sure.

Pizza Club
Aug 28, 2006

President Jerk


The wife is getting a Macbook with a SSD. She does picture editing and we both take a lot of pictures of the baby. I wanted a NAS anyway and now it seems we have enough reason for one.

We need to be able backup to it (Mostly her, I use Crashplan but if the NAS supported Crashplan natively, that'd be cool) and be able to split storage into backup and network file share volumes.

This is our first NAS. The Synology ones have been mentioned a couple times. Is that recommended "my first home NAS"? It seems like they have some cool add-ons (like VPN) which I'd probably use and they wouldn't break the bank.

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity



Fun Shoe

ConfusedUs posted:

You'll be hard pressed to find a subscription based service that backs up to Amazon or google for $60 a year, which is the price point for most consumer backup.


I was looking for some software that would just let me backup to my own Amazon or Google storage buckets. I'm paying a hefty price for the small number of GBs I've actually backed up, but I still want proper versioning and whatnot.

And Cloudberry isn't a great choice because my second backup to a local disk is over 1tb.

FunOne fucked around with this message at Oct 29, 2015 around 19:01

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


It's been ages since I looked but I recall some stuff that backed up to glacier.

RusteJuxx
Jul 14, 2001

Probably the Best Superhero Puppet Avatar In the Universe!

College Slice

Over in the Mac Software thread ( http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...2#post451868347 ) Arq - https://www.arqbackup.com - was mentioned. The software allows backup to Google Drive and AWS among other things. The few reviews I read make it sound good and it appears to have extremely robust features. It's also pretty cheap when you're just using their product to interface with your own storage.

wyoak
Feb 14, 2005

a glass case of emotion


Fallen Rib

RusteJuxx posted:

Over in the Mac Software thread ( http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...2#post451868347 ) Arq - https://www.arqbackup.com - was mentioned. The software allows backup to Google Drive and AWS among other things. The few reviews I read make it sound good and it appears to have extremely robust features. It's also pretty cheap when you're just using their product to interface with your own storage.
This + Amazon Cloud Drive ($60 / year for 'unlimited' storage) seems like a solid deal for home users, if the software works well and Amazon doesn't get mad at you for using it in that way. I'm going to sign up for the trial tonight.

Loving Africa Chaps
Dec 3, 2007


We had not left it yet, but when I would wake in the night, I would lie, listening, homesick for it already.



Want to get serious about backups rather then just have some poo poo on Dropbox. Plan is computer -> nas -> cloud +/- a physical copy at my parents. Anyone used dlink sharecenters? The 2 bay one is 50% off on Amazon but it looks like it only supports cloud backup to its own service.

Loving Africa Chaps fucked around with this message at Nov 1, 2015 around 22:37

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008


Spent the last few days doing a setup with unitrends. Poor guy sounds like he's dying over the phone. We technically work a half hour from Unitrends Corporate HQ and I'd rather he be on site for this stuff but I don't want to catch hell plague.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


At work we need to revamp our corporate filing. We currently use Sharepoint as advised (and hosted) by our external IT consultancy, but Sharepoint sucks anus at every opportunity.

I wanted to move to DropBox for business, but was warned by an engineer from the IT company that we wouldn't have control of our own backups and that he would advise against any change that took that control away from us.

My thought was can we have a system like DropBox doing its syncing thing, and have that data backed up from one of our endpoints to a non-DropBox connected device. I was thinking that if we had a Mac Mini or something sitting in our data cabinet that syncs with our entire DropBox, it could then be backing up to a NAS using Time Machine. That NAS could then back up to a cloud service for truly oh-poo poo situations. (I only mention the Mac Mini because we have a couple unused at the moment following our office move this year and new devices replacing their old functions - could very well switch to something else if required.)

So I've been reading this thread and it seems like there is a similarity between my thinking and some of the suggestions people have been discussing. I guess I have three specific questions relating to my suggested setup:

1. Is there any reason why you can't backup the locally stored files in a DropBox folder on a given endpoint to eg. Time Machine?

2. The comment made upthread about Time Machine gave me pause - it seems like generally people are quite positive about it. Can anyone give me an impartial viewpoint on the suitability of Time Machine?

3. Given the danger of immediate syncing of eg. corrupted or crypto-locked files using DropBox, would scheduled backups to a NAS be enough to protect against this? We have way more space on our NAS currently than our total Sharepoint volume so should be able to keep a good history.

0. Finally, is this a crazy idea for some other reason not covered in my questions?

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Loving Africa Chaps posted:

Want to get serious about backups rather then just have some poo poo on Dropbox. Plan is computer -> nas -> cloud +/- a physical copy at my parents. Anyone used dlink sharecenters? The 2 bay one is 50% off on Amazon but it looks like it only supports cloud backup to its own service.

I haven't used them, sorry.

ineptmule posted:

At work we need to revamp our corporate filing. We currently use Sharepoint as advised (and hosted) by our external IT consultancy, but Sharepoint sucks anus at every opportunity.

I wanted to move to DropBox for business, but was warned by an engineer from the IT company that we wouldn't have control of our own backups and that he would advise against any change that took that control away from us.

My thought was can we have a system like DropBox doing its syncing thing, and have that data backed up from one of our endpoints to a non-DropBox connected device. I was thinking that if we had a Mac Mini or something sitting in our data cabinet that syncs with our entire DropBox, it could then be backing up to a NAS using Time Machine. That NAS could then back up to a cloud service for truly oh-poo poo situations. (I only mention the Mac Mini because we have a couple unused at the moment following our office move this year and new devices replacing their old functions - could very well switch to something else if required.)

So I've been reading this thread and it seems like there is a similarity between my thinking and some of the suggestions people have been discussing. I guess I have three specific questions relating to my suggested setup:

1. Is there any reason why you can't backup the locally stored files in a DropBox folder on a given endpoint to eg. Time Machine?

2. The comment made upthread about Time Machine gave me pause - it seems like generally people are quite positive about it. Can anyone give me an impartial viewpoint on the suitability of Time Machine?

3. Given the danger of immediate syncing of eg. corrupted or crypto-locked files using DropBox, would scheduled backups to a NAS be enough to protect against this? We have way more space on our NAS currently than our total Sharepoint volume so should be able to keep a good history.

0. Finally, is this a crazy idea for some other reason not covered in my questions?

You can absolutely back up the local dropbox files.

Time machine, like most Apple products, works great for most people. It's quick, intuitive, and easy to work with. BUT, also like most Apple products, if you're one of the unlucky few for whom it does not work, good loving luck.

Cryptolocker and friends can usually traverse network shares. So a NAS isn't enough if you're just copying the files. If you package them up, though, you'll probably be okay. Most variants only target certain file extensions, so you could like, zip up your backups and change the extension to something like .data and today's cryptoviruses wouldn't touch it. Probably.

So what you're asking about is possible, but there are a ton of potential holes in it.

Frankly, I'd very strongly suggest looking into a business-class backup solution that does local and cloud backups. Make sure your users' data lives on your servers, not your endpoints. Back up the severs instead of running a hodgepodge of stuff from all of your endpoints, because managing a bunch of endpoints like that is a nightmare.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


Ok, great, thanks for the feedback.

I'm not sure I've understood the situation. If we used DropBox for business, would I be able to have the data all stored centrally on a server?

Basically I want the DropBox functionality for shared storage, collaboration on files and so on. So I need to set up a system that can back that up rather than relying on DB to backup everything themselves. Happy to look into whatever business class options exist within that space.

I just want to shitcan our Sharepoint as soon as possible. Is that really too much to ask?!

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


ineptmule posted:

Ok, great, thanks for the feedback.

I'm not sure I've understood the situation. If we used DropBox for business, would I be able to have the data all stored centrally on a server?

Basically I want the DropBox functionality for shared storage, collaboration on files and so on. So I need to set up a system that can back that up rather than relying on DB to backup everything themselves. Happy to look into whatever business class options exist within that space.

I just want to shitcan our Sharepoint as soon as possible. Is that really too much to ask?!

Why not just back up Sharepoint?

Something like Carbonite Server Backup could do it.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


Our sharepoint is already backed up (although not in house - not sure what system the IT guys use) but everybody bar none in my company hates Sharepoint beyond any measure of reason.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


ineptmule posted:

Our sharepoint is already backed up (although not in house - not sure what system the IT guys use) but everybody bar none in my company hates Sharepoint beyond any measure of reason.

I'm not really sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

Backup is not a replacement for Sharepoint.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


That's what I wanted Dropbox for... the main things we actually want from Sharepoint are storage and document collaboration. It does the both pretty poorly. It appears Dropbox does better.

I'm asking the question in this thread because I wanted to know if I could back up the data in Dropbox to another location.

Edit: mentioning Sharepoint may have confused the issue - my question isn't really about that.

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


ineptmule posted:

That's what I wanted Dropbox for... the main things we actually want from Sharepoint are storage and document collaboration. It does the both pretty poorly. It appears Dropbox does better.

I'm asking the question in this thread because I wanted to know if I could back up the data in Dropbox to another location.

Edit: mentioning Sharepoint may have confused the issue - my question isn't really about that.

You can back up any local files--shared with dropbox or not--with just about any solution.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


Thanks. Your point earlier about there probably being something else out there that joins the dots in a more sensible way has made me want to review my options, but it's good to know my original thinking is possible.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003



The biggest breaking point I see in your Dropbox-Mac Mini-Time Machine scenario is that your data storage is in Dropbox, your backup is in the Time Machine and there is a gap between them. Those two can't see each other and you are trying to use the Mac Mini to bridge that gap and relying that everything works with it.

Maybe there is problem with the syncing. Maybe your Dropbox grows so large that the Mac Mini runs out of disk space and it's unable to sync new files from Dropbox. Time Machine won't know that there is some new data that it has newer seen. Or maybe the NAS for Time Machine fails and DropBox keeps happily syncing data to the Mac Mini without knowing that they aren't properly backed up.

In a traditional backup system you would have a server that stores all your data and you would have installed a backup software agent/client on the server. Since the agent is installed on the server you are largely guaranteed that it can access any data that is stored on the server. And since the agent is integral part of the backup system it will directly contact the backup server that will store the backups on tape. The backup system will know if the agent hasn't been able to read some data on the storage server, or the agent and backup server haven't been able to contact each other or the backup server hasn't been able to write backups to the tapes and can alert appropriately.

I can't think how to backup Dropbox to my liking. You can't install the backup agent inside Dropbox. Alternative could be if the backup system had support for Dropbox and could connect to it directly, but I doubt such exists.

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


Good to know, thanks. I will keep looking!

Rhymenoserous
May 23, 2008


ConfusedUs posted:

I'm not really sure what problem you're trying to solve here.

Backup is not a replacement for Sharepoint.

And managing a collection of folders in a loving dropbox of all things isn't going to work as well as you'd like to think it will. I've got a setup like this at the moment, it's horrid, obnoxious, it's hard to find poo poo. We have a new sharepoint server going online shortly.

Your problem seems to be you have a lovely sharepoint setup. It does collaboration just fine (Even to the point of managing revisions).

ConfusedUs
Feb 24, 2004

Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!


Rhymenoserous posted:

And managing a collection of folders in a loving dropbox of all things isn't going to work as well as you'd like to think it will. I've got a setup like this at the moment, it's horrid, obnoxious, it's hard to find poo poo. We have a new sharepoint server going online shortly.

Your problem seems to be you have a lovely sharepoint setup. It does collaboration just fine (Even to the point of managing revisions).

My thoughts exactly.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE


Rhymenoserous posted:

And managing a collection of folders in a loving dropbox of all things isn't going to work as well as you'd like to think it will. I've got a setup like this at the moment, it's horrid, obnoxious, it's hard to find poo poo. We have a new sharepoint server going online shortly.

Your problem seems to be you have a lovely sharepoint setup. It does collaboration just fine (Even to the point of managing revisions).

Correct here, whoever setup the sharepoint didn't do it correctly, you might need to pay consultants to do it, but when it's setup nicely it is REALLY good. We do all our change management documentation through sharepoint and it rocks, versioning, workflow approvals, custom fields, etc etc etc

ineptmule
Dec 3, 2005

Not suited, just booted.


Hmm. Well this is interesting. Thanks.

Happiness Commando
Feb 1, 2002
$$ joy at gunpoint $$



socialsecurity posted:

The complete lack of control, part of it I blame on our sales people. They sold a device with more local storage then cloud storage but the device tries to force everything to the cloud and overcharges us on storage we can't just delete stuff from the cloud either everything has to be a bloody ticket with their "white glove support". Also they have messed up our seeding every single time and we just found out they don't support Windows 2012 Deduplication.

Have you looked into their time-based retention option? We have all our devices on 1 year plans.

Edit: Also, you can set the cloud backup frequency in agent settings

Happiness Commando fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2015 around 16:39

NihilCredo
Jun 6, 2011

iram omni possibili modo preme:
plus una illa te diffamabit, quam multæ virtutes commendabunt



I was looking at Amazon Glacier because it seemed to perfectly fit my needs (write once, restore hopefully never and with no real hurry, as cheap as possible), but I ended up confused as to why it even exists.

At $0.007/GB/month, and assuming no retrieval fees whatsoever, it'll take a whopping 700GB of storage before hitting price parity with Amazon Cloud Drive or CrashPlan, which are totally unlimited AND have no retrieval delay. Make that 400GB if you're in one of the $0.012 regions, again without retrieval fees (which are significant - $0.09/GB past the first giga).

So I guess it's still on the table if you only have a small archive set, but other than that, is there any reason not to go with the Cloud Drive instead?

Maneki Neko
Oct 27, 2000



NihilCredo posted:

I was looking at Amazon Glacier because it seemed to perfectly fit my needs (write once, restore hopefully never and with no real hurry, as cheap as possible), but I ended up confused as to why it even exists.

At $0.007/GB/month, and assuming no retrieval fees whatsoever, it'll take a whopping 700GB of storage before hitting price parity with Amazon Cloud Drive or CrashPlan, which are totally unlimited AND have no retrieval delay. Make that 400GB if you're in one of the $0.012 regions, again without retrieval fees (which are significant - $0.09/GB past the first giga).

So I guess it's still on the table if you only have a small archive set, but other than that, is there any reason not to go with the Cloud Drive instead?

This is for joe schlub on his personal computer? That's not really the use case that glacier was designed for, so there may very well be better options out there for that situation.

Minimum Syntaxing
Oct 29, 2008

He looks white, but he's the son of a black man!

So I got this external HD early this year, and I only back my stuff up on it every few months.
Problem #1 is, this WD SmartWare program it came with seemed to nest my files into a folder with a long gibberish name. Anyways I think that caused some of my files to not be backed up, because their path became too long.

Problem #2 might only have to do with how I've resorted to clicking and dragging my files because of problem #1: The subfolders or files that I've since renamed on my internal HD leave me with extra copies in my external because well... I guess the word for it is they don't replace the local backup? Like, I just want the selected folders on my external to mirror the ones on my internal.

Also since I will only be plugging my external in inconsistently every few months (to try and keep the wear & tear down), I don't have any need for automatic/scheduled backup stuff.

So is there any free programs around that can do this?

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



SyncBack Free.

Saving on wear and tear with harddrives is barely a thing afaik.

Minimum Syntaxing
Oct 29, 2008

He looks white, but he's the son of a black man!

Flipperwaldt posted:

SyncBack Free.
Thanks, looks like "synchronization" was the word I was thinking of then.

Flipperwaldt posted:

Saving on wear and tear with harddrives is barely a thing afaik.
Ah, that so? I got the idea from a friend, seemed to make sense. Either way I use that extra USB port for a gamepad anyway.

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Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Fartmaster posted:

Ah, that so? I got the idea from a friend, seemed to make sense.
Well, maybe for drives that are in heavy use 24h a day there's something measurable. But you're not going to see any increase in longevity for the drive going from monthly to, say, weekly syncs. Apart from the increased risk of you dropping it while you manipulate it, maybe.

But it's a bit of a hassle, I get it, with a usb drive. Which is the main reason I got a NAS. So sick and tired of juggling external drives and not having up to date copies of my files because I was too lazy about it all.

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