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ufarn
May 30, 2009


The problem with IF is less a retcon than the audience's sheer inability to make any sense of what's going on whatsoever. Retcons are fine, often to fix dumb writing, but this is just the continued erosion of the writing.

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Cran
Mar 23, 2011


I've talked people's ears off about how lame the Hand is since they popped up in DDS2. Just the very idea of them grated on me because the Netflix series were otherwise down to earth, and they kind of ruined that for me. That, and nothing they did was as good or convincing as Hydra in Agents of SHIELD, which has been on an insane upswing for as long as Marvel Netflix has been on its downswing.

And, I hate to admit that I miss the sheer brutality and personable evil we got from Kingpin, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, and Black Mariah - humans with human motives and flaws - as opposed to a fantastic league of ninjas in New York chasing the undead dragon.

Toast Museum
Dec 3, 2005

30% Iron Chef


I wonder if they've been so coy about Shou Lao because they didn't want to invite a comparison with Game of Thrones on CG quality.

HIJK
Nov 25, 2012

People were stupid, sometimes. They thought the Library was a dangerous place because of all the magical books, which was true enough, but what made it really one of the most dangerous places there could ever be was the simple fact that it was a library.


MiddleOne posted:

Immortal ninjas are just really lame. I've been telling you people this since DD S2, why did it take you this long to believe me?

bUt It'S fRoM tHe CoMiCs

Nephthys
Mar 27, 2010


They were clearly going for a personable evil with Alexandra and they tried to show her as vulnerable and human but they fumbled it because she was just kind of incompetent and pathetic and then got replaced with Elektra, who's never been very interesting and is mostly just a crazy bitch.

ufarn
May 30, 2009


Toast Museum posted:

I wonder if they've been so coy about Shou Lao because they didn't want to invite a comparison with Game of Thrones on CG quality.
I mean, IF was completely devoid of mysticism, would't pin it on anything VFX-specific. Man in the High Castle has amazing VFX with a TV budget, and Netflix/Marel could make something great if they wanted to.

Brazilianpeanutwar
Aug 27, 2015

Spent my walletfull, on a jpeg, desolate, will croberts make a whale of me yet?


All that elevator CGI was baaaaaad,like videogame unfinished fan movie bad.

But other than that I enjoyed the show,iron fist was a dick but at least everyone around him acknowledged it.

was anyone expecting all those dead guys in the warehouse to have been killed by the punisher? they all looked like gunshot wounds and I was wondering if he was involved but I guess not

Gargamel Gibson
Apr 24, 2014


Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

Dwyane Wade is still taking his player option for $23.8 million next season, according to sources. The Jimmy Butler trade affects nothing


Gargamel Gibson posted:

Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot.

building was about to go boom?

Lycus
Aug 5, 2008

Half the posters in this forum have been made up. This website is a goddamn ghost town.

Kegslayer posted:

Isn't that because the show runners don't have any idea what's happening on the other shows?


Yes, one of showrunners answered questions indicating that they don't coordinate much.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


Gargamel Gibson posted:

Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot.

So Misty can get herself all Coulsoned up with a kick-rear end robot arm.

Falstaff
Apr 27, 2008

I have a kind of alacrity in sinking.


Gargamel Gibson posted:

Why did Claire leave Misty Knight's amputated arm behind? That poo poo probably could have been reattached. Dumb idiot.

Shush you, I waited two series for Misty to lose her arm. Don't take this away from me.

(Though I would have been happier if it played out as something like this.)

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

So I guess my dad died.


Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU.

seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

DrNutt posted:

seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff.

Every time they do that people call it the worst thing ever.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

i don't like nazis

DrNutt posted:

Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU.

seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff.

I feel like it is comic booky enough. Cage fought a man in a stupid space suit. Mystical ninjas. JJ is a mutant and fought a psychic man.

I mean it's a bit more lofi than the movies and stuff like Agents of Shield, but I like the tone they have set for a ground pounding street hero show. I wish their budgets were a bit bigger though because the effects on some stuff (Defenders) are dogshit.

e: phone changing my foughts to boughts :/

JBP fucked around with this message at Aug 22, 2017 around 01:43

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

The tail...

The whole damned thing.

These Netflix shows have given and taught me two things anyway.

Until this thread, I'd never heard the term "showrunner" and had no idea what that was. I'd never heard of Jidenna either so most of Luke Cage's shortcomings are forgiven on that basis alone.

Agree with the dude a few pages back who pointed out how these series seem to be getting away from what loving everyone LOVED about DDs1 and how that grounding it so well really led to its relatability and success. Wives and girlfriends were digging this poo poo for once. gently caress the Ninjas, the hole, the stupid dragon and the Hand and all that mystical bullshit. I want Castle, Copperhead and Fisk owning the poo poo out of every scene their in and someone cool enough to play Bullseye when we get to that.

I want a competent Iron Fist and a Heroes for Hire where those two help people when the cops and the lawyers won't. I haven't watched JJ yet but it's been in my queue forever and reading the comments here has gotten me interested precisely because of the motivations I'm reading ascribed to the hero.

notthegoatseguy
Sep 6, 2005
I'm a petty asshole

I feel like another downfall for Defenders is Alexandra. We spent a lot of time getting to know Cottonmouth, Black Mariah, Fisk, Punisher, and Kilgrave. Through a combination of character arcs and flashbacks. For Alexandra, almost everything we know about her is because either some character or herself talks us through it. I don't really feel like I got to know her in the same way that I got to know Fisk and Kilgrave. I would've liked to see some flashbacks to her time before she entered New York.

Gaz-L
Jan 28, 2009


I dunno, take away the flashback episode from Daredevil season 1 and we know about as much about her as we would know about Fisk.

DrNutt
Apr 12, 2007

So I guess my dad died.


JBP posted:

I feel like it is comic booky enough. Cage bought a man in a stupid space suit. Mystical ninjas. JJ is a mutant and bought a psychic man.

I mean it's a bit more lofi than the movies and stuff like Agents of Shield, but I like the tone they have set for a ground pounding street hero show. I wish their budgets were a bit bigger though because the effects on some stuff (Defenders) are dogshit.

Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god.

JBP
Feb 16, 2017

i don't like nazis

DrNutt posted:

Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god.

Ah yeah. This is why I like Danny. He's some lovely rich kid, but he says completely insane things like I AM THE IMMORTAL IRON FIST and "I have a vision of total victory in my mind" without a shadow of doubt that this is cool and normal.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

In Rodd We Trust!


I wish they had spent all the money they spent on Sigourney Weaver on fight choreography.

Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your Mother!


BiggerBoat posted:

Until this thread, I'd never heard the term "showrunner" and had no idea what that was.

The first time I recall hearing it was the remake of Battlestar Galactica, with Ron Moore having that unofficial title.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


You know what? for all it's faults, I really enjoyed this. I liked Danny Rand playing the part of damsel in distress/main target and Jessica's reactions to all the crazy poo poo going on.

My only beef is, all the fight choreography in the world doesn't mean anything if the setting is in a dark lit room with very few lights in between it all.

DrNutt posted:

Yeah that stuff is in there, my point is how all the characters seem to be embarrassed about it. Luke Cage's incredulity toward Danny talking about dragons and chi is loving stupid in a world where an alien invasion was stopped by a fighting force that included a literal god.

I agree almost completely. In the movies and in the netflix series, everyone is absolutely aware of the "incident" where everything you knew about the universe changed. Thing is, people are still going to work and worrying about rent because that's just the way the world still works. It's almost as if hearing about the "floating city" in Age of Ultron, or the guy with the "hammer" is just water cooler talk you hear about in google news, and not some life altering thing.

In any other medium (other than comics), that extraordinary thing is enough to rattle the whole world. Alien invasion, new power source, terrorist with world ending stuff. Comic universes as far as i know are the only ones where people know there's something out there, and is still kinda positive about it, if not ambivalent. As some regular jane/joe, you know there's like 100 heroes with different powers saving the world, competing with 100 villains trying to end it, and you're just trying to make rent.

Fargin Icehole fucked around with this message at Aug 22, 2017 around 02:30

Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013


Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason.

Fargin Icehole
Feb 18, 2011

Pet me.


Narcissus1916 posted:

Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason.

Hand agents can wear beach attire and still do the things they do

Maluco Marinero
Jan 18, 2001

Damn that's a
fine elephant.


Fargin Icehole posted:

Hand agents can wear beach attire and still do the things they do

They also sit in boardroom meetings in business attire, completed with telescopic batons just in case the Iron Fist walks in.

CAPT. Rainbowbeard
Apr 5, 2012
My incredible shitposting will not transform the xbone into a good console


Lipstick Apathy

Nephthys posted:

Like most things, the Hand is a lot cooler when you know barely anything about it. They were the coolest in season 1 of Daredevil when we knew poo poo about them except that Gao was loving awesome and then Nobu shows up and whoops Matt's rear end. We didn't even know they were the Hand, just that a secret organisation was backing Kingpin and that Gao could punch Matt 10 feet backwards with no explanation. There was a real feeling of mystique and intrigue.

Then in DD 2 they're cool in that one scene where Matt can't hear their movements and he shits his pants. Or when Claire freaks out over them being zombies. But after that we find out who and what they are and they basically just become ninja mooks to be run through with some vague mystical motivations. Still a bit cool and they could lead to something badass.

And then Iron Fist we find out even more about them and they suck balls. They're just a kind of lovely cult. The only interesting thing about them in Iron Fist is that Gao and Bakuto honestly came off as far more reasonable and competent than Danny did and I was honestly rooting against him for most of it.

And finally in Defenders we know everything about them and they're just petty, boring assholes. Nothing intriguing or intelligent about them anymore. They aren't even ninja's anymore, just losers in face masks. Their leaders are just pathetic old exiles desperately clinging to life. How are they even threatening anymore? Kingpin was so feared a man stabbed himself through the eye just for saying his name. Meanwhile Danny just goes "c'mon" and tracks them down. loving Elektra is like a god to them. These guys are ants compared to the Avengers, or even just to Luke Cage.

Gao is the only cool thing about them and even she'd be totally ruined if not for the actress being so drat good.

Never meet your heroes.

DrNutt posted:

Misty gets a Stark tech robot arm, while the cast cringes and grimaces and breaks the 4th wall in embarrassment that they are on a comic book show related to the MCU.

seriously though this show would be ten times better if they just embraced the silliness a little bit and ran with the comic stuff.

They... did, though. There were ninja. Lots of ninja. Didn't you see the ninja? They had some kind of immortality dust, and followed the Inverse Ninja Power Rule (the fewer the ninja the more powerful they are) and there was a lot of punching and stabbing.

Narcissus1916 posted:

Why does Defenders not have the team fight actual ninjas at ANY point. All of a sudden all the mooks are dudes in suits for no reason.

Those ninja costumes get smelly.

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Narcissus1916
Apr 29, 2013


If "embracing their comic roots" means borrowing dragon bone sets from Power Rangers I think I'm good.

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