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Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



So Iím rewatching daredevil seasons to watch season 3. I assume Iíd also need to watch defenders? I hear itís not very good though

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esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

There are no such things as miracles.




The recap before S3 should cover it for you, and the characters discuss it a decent amount in the first few episodes, but all you really need to know is what happened in the finale for Defenders tbh

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

esperterra posted:

Karen owns and I appreciate you for being one of like 4? people in this thread not complaining about one of the main characters apparently being a waste of time lmao

Karen is great, as is the entire cast, and I enjoyed the episode where they fleshed out her history. Finished this up last night and I really don't get the complaints I'm reading. It's right up there with DDs1 and Punisher as far as I'm concerned.

Vanessa is chilling in a way that's hard for me to put my finger on and the way she manipulates and controls Wilson is really effective. I kept expecting someone along the way to try and figure out a way to get to her since she's basically Fisk's only real exploitable weakness. Was waiting for the "let's hit him where it hurts most" idea to come up.

Couple of things still eat at me but it's mostly nitpicking.



- Still confused about Fisk's panic room/underground lair. How can he keep hiding down there if he's under constant surveillance? If the FBI is complicit and under his control then why does need to conceal the room and pretend it's not there?

- Why the gently caress did Bullseye hardly ever use a gun? I counted the FBI shootout where he saves Fisk, when he shot at Nadeem and when he assassinated the witness but why did he need to dress as DD to take out Karen Page? Even if it's "he needed to pass as DD", it doesn't matter because not only is he trying to frame Matt as a killer but he's already used a gun in the newsroom attack.

For that matter, if he's not going to use a firearm, why doesn't he bring some throwing weapons with him - throwing stars or knives - rather than constantly improvising?

- What was the deal with Karen's brother burning down her boyfriend's trailer? I know he was mad at the dude but holy poo poo. That whole sequence confused me and felt very abrupt.

- The show failed to generate tension with one of its main plot points: Will Matt Kill or Won't He? Because we know he's not going to go through with it. People seem let down with the finale and, while it was somewhat of a fizzle, the beat down Matt delivers was loving brutal and I liked the bright, white lighting and color palette they used in contrast to most of Matt's fights being really dark .

- what was the point of killing Bullseye's confidant/sponsor? Fisk already had Dex under his control and she had already frozen him out. Seemed pointless. I guess Fisk wanted to eliminate the possibility of Dex finding help but it felt odd.



I love the beehive/hornet's nest score whenever Dex is freaking the gently caress out.

Where to go next? "Devil Cell Block D" was fairly touched on and would seem redundant. Maybe bring in Owl and Typhoid Mary and do the tabloid "Matt Murdock is Daredevil" thing. Bendis and Brubaker did some great stuff that they could use but then again this seems like a good spot to end and Netflix seems to want to wrap these shows up for some reason. The finale hinted at Bullseye coming back but not sure what you can add to that to make it interesting even though I loved the character.

You could have Wilson tell Owlsley's son that Karen killed him and have him become Owl, using Bullseye to try and kill her. I'm just bummed that there's no more now. Binged through this thing in 2 days. Maybe I'll re-watch Punisher.

Great loving season. Don't believe the haters.

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



I had forgotten how much punishment Matt takes, even before getting his magical stabproof suit

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


esperterra posted:

Karen owns and I appreciate you for being one of like 4? people in this thread not complaining about one of the main characters apparently being a waste of time lmao

I liked the arc for both Karen and Foggy and felt like if you just wanted to tell a Matt story you could have cut them, but they're part of the ensemble and while they didn't feel SUPER important, I liked how they used them; for the most part. I will complain about the Karen backstory sequence but it's not particularly long so I didn't feel like they were really padding with it. It also wasn't as jarring to the narrative as it was in some of the other Netflix shows when they cut off the action at the climax.


Calaveron posted:

I had forgotten how much punishment Matt takes, even before getting his magical stabproof suit

One thing I liked in this regard is that Daredevil never beats up Bullseye by the end. In every brawl they have Bullseye is continually shown to be the better fighter and Daredevil is repeatedly saved by the intervention of others. I thought that was a nice touch, particularly if they want to bring him back.

Blackchamber
Jan 25, 2005

Don't call me, I'll call you.


PaybackJack posted:

One thing I liked in this regard is that Daredevil never beats up Bullseye by the end. In every brawl they have Bullseye is continually shown to be the better fighter and Daredevil is repeatedly saved by the intervention of others. I thought that was a nice touch, particularly if they want to bring him back.

Matt was dominating the fights when it went hand to hand, and Matt mentions that the problem with fighting with Bullseye was closing the distance. He even starts wearing the Muay Thai ropes to increase the close-up damage he was doing. Bullseye was great at playing to his strengths though and throwing things, like scissors.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006


College Slice

Koalas Massacre posted:

So much this. It seemed like despite Luke being the main character they didn't really know what to do with him or use his powers. Exploring "Can a good guy do bad things for a good reason?" Sounded really interesting, and Harlem is probably the best setting and most "alive" feeling in the Netflix marvel universe. Not only that but by cutting out LC/IF they're gutting all their diversity as far as poc go.

JJ s2 was way worse than LC s2, and they continually treat Malcolm like poo poo, have no intersectionality/woc and DD is even worse.

I kind of can't see them keeping Jessica around while dropping Luke. I'm assuming they just haven't made an announcement, or they're too far along with the next season to bail on her yet. But I'm saying that as someone who couldn't finish JJS2, I obviously have no idea what the Ratings say.

Habibi
Dec 8, 2004

We have the capability to make San Jose's first Cup Champion.

The Sharks could be that Champion.


PaybackJack posted:

One thing I liked in this regard is that Daredevil never beats up Bullseye by the end. In every brawl they have Bullseye is continually shown to be the better fighter and Daredevil is repeatedly saved by the intervention of others. I thought that was a nice touch, particularly if they want to bring him back.

That's the opposite of how each of their hand-to-hand encounters went. Bullseye was only able to gain the upper hand by kiting Matt around.

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



Finished DDS3 and I'd have to say I enjoyed it but it definitely didn't need to be 13 episodes. There was a ton of filler in there.

radlum
May 13, 2013


Mr. Carlisle posted:

Finished DDS3 and I'd have to say I enjoyed it but it definitely didn't need to be 13 episodes. There was a ton of filler in there.

I'm on episode 10 and I feel this show should have ended here instead of getting a Karen Page flashback episode .

Also, on episode 9, young Maggie's casting was spot on...but she looked so young compared to Jack Murdock; I don't know if it was intentional but they added another weird aspect of their relationship. Also, Maggie sobbing in Matt's room was pretty bad; I couldn't tell if she was crying or laughing.

Bust Rodd
Oct 21, 2008

Pull up your pants and get to work


I was more excited about Luke Cage S3 than any other Marvel property, and my Netflix sub is down, i think im gonna leave DDS3 for a rainy day

Calaveron
Aug 7, 2006



Does Karen gently caress up more spectacularly than when she gets Urich killed after taking his unwitting rear end to visit Kingpin's momma

Sammus
Nov 30, 2005



BiggerBoat posted:


Couple of things still eat at me but it's mostly nitpicking.



- what was the point of killing Bullseye's confidant/sponsor? Fisk already had Dex under his control and she had already frozen him out. Seemed pointless. I guess Fisk wanted to eliminate the possibility of Dex finding help but it felt odd.




I assume Fisk had her killed after Dex went to her and told her he was falling apart. She was dead before she "froze him out." That was Fisk's men who sent that message.

BSam
Nov 24, 2012



Sammus posted:

I assume Fisk had her killed after Dex went to her and told her he was falling apart. She was dead before she "froze him out." That was Fisk's men who sent that message.

Yeah it took a while before I realised that's what happened.

PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


Blackchamber posted:

Matt was dominating the fights when it went hand to hand, and Matt mentions that the problem with fighting with Bullseye was closing the distance. He even starts wearing the Muay Thai ropes to increase the close-up damage he was doing. Bullseye was great at playing to his strengths though and throwing things, like scissors.

Habibi posted:

That's the opposite of how each of their hand-to-hand encounters went. Bullseye was only able to gain the upper hand by kiting Matt around.

That's my point though. Matt could beat him in close range but was continuously outmaneuvered by Dex. It really gave a sense that Bullseye was a strong opponent that in their future encounters Matt will need to recruit assistance to help take down or try to create a situation where Bullseye walks into a trap that doesn't give him a chance to create distance.

Gumby
Jul 23, 2000


Sammus posted:

I assume Fisk had her killed after Dex went to her and told her he was falling apart. She was dead before she "froze him out." That was Fisk's men who sent that message.

(Spoiler on character death) Julie died on-camera. In both ways, as she was killed in the hotel by two guys posing as construction workers while Fisk watched via his creepy cameras.

Mr. Carlisle
Jul 14, 2007



radlum posted:

I'm on episode 10 and I feel this show should have ended here instead of getting a Karen Page flashback episode .

Also, on episode 9, young Maggie's casting was spot on...but she looked so young compared to Jack Murdock; I don't know if it was intentional but they added another weird aspect of their relationship. Also, Maggie sobbing in Matt's room was pretty bad; I couldn't tell if she was crying or laughing.

There's some great stuff in the last few episodes including the conclusion of the season long build but they could have edited out like 80% of the foggy segments and cut some of the other padding and made 10 much better paced episodes. That being said I liked it for the most part.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001



BiggerBoat posted:


- Still confused about Fisk's panic room/underground lair. How can he keep hiding down there if he's under constant surveillance? If the FBI is complicit and under his control then why does need to conceal the room and pretend it's not there?

- What was the deal with Karen's brother burning down her boyfriend's trailer? I know he was mad at the dude but holy poo poo. That whole sequence confused me and felt very abrupt.



Only some of the FBI agents were complicit. I just assumed that the ankle monitor didn't check for the Z axis so as long as he stayed without the boundaries, he could go as high or low as he wanted. Which also doesn't make much sense considering that his whole penthouse has cameras except for his bedroom. Or just assume the hacker lady he had hostage did something. Or that agent Hattley did something. Or just assume it was the same reason that he kept Melvin and Julie's body in a freezer: because the plot said so.

Yea, that escalated very quickly. I guess he figured that having Karen's boyfriend around would keep her from going back to university but going from 0 to burning down his house is . He dumb. That whole flashback was bad.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Only some of the FBI agents were complicit. I just assumed that the ankle monitor didn't check for the Z axis so as long as he stayed without the boundaries, he could go as high or low as he wanted. Which also doesn't make much sense considering that his whole penthouse has cameras except for his bedroom. Or just assume the hacker lady he had hostage did something. Or that agent Hattley did something. Or just assume it was the same reason that he kept Melvin and Julie's body in a freezer: because the plot said so.

Yea, that escalated very quickly. I guess he figured that having Karen's boyfriend around would keep her from going back to university but going from 0 to burning down his house is . He dumb. That whole flashback was bad.


Was that confirmed that that was Melvin in the freezer? It looked like him but I wasn't sure. Guess it makes sense since he was another loose end but that hit (and the red headed counselor lady one) were breezed by so quick I didn't know what the gently caress.. I liked the Karen flashback episode for the most part (but knew other people would hate it) and I like the actor as well but the resolution seemed really rushed. It was one of the few times I hit rewind to go back and re-check myself. Did the same thing with Dex's counselor lady too.

Fisk's panic room and Bullseye eschewing firearms were the main things I thought were weird. Especially since they could have been explained and rectified rather easily

Combat Pretzel
Jun 23, 2004

No, seriously... what kurds?!

Just on Daredevil S03E06... What bugs the living poo poo out of me is that Bullseye, with his crappy FBI training, which he probably never applied outside training, can keep up with the martial arts and experience of Matt.

thebardyspoon
Jun 30, 2005


Combat Pretzel posted:

Just on Daredevil S03E06... What bugs the living poo poo out of me is that Bullseye, with his crappy FBI training, which he probably never applied outside training, can keep up with the martial arts and experience of Matt.

I've been seeing this complaint a lot but he really doesn't last that long the fight total is about 5 minutes tops, he holds up in close combat with Matt for like a minute total and then realises he's going to get his rear end kicked so he gets away from him and starts using his ranged bullshit since that's where he's better. Even average goons can hold their own against Matt for a bit based on stuff like the hallway fight so it's not completely insane that a well trained FBI agent in good shape can hold out for a bit longer. I dunno, didn't bother me.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

For that you get the head...

the tail...

the whole damned thing.

thebardyspoon posted:

I've been seeing this complaint a lot but he really doesn't last that long the fight total is about 5 minutes tops, he holds up in close combat with Matt for like a minute total and then realises he's going to get his rear end kicked so he gets away from him and starts using his ranged bullshit since that's where he's better. Even average goons can hold their own against Matt for a bit based on stuff like the hallway fight so it's not completely insane that a well trained FBI agent in good shape can hold out for a bit longer. I dunno, didn't bother me.

Didn't bother me either. Not much did, really. I thought the season was really strong and it had me hooked from the get go. I assumed he had at least a modicum of hand to hand close quarters combat skills even if it wasn't his primary strength. Plus just about everybody in these shows seems to know martial arts to one extent or another so whatever.

For those bitching about Foggy for whatever reason:

I've liked the character and the actor from the get go.

He's supposed to be sort of a goofy, well meaning, smart, doughy sort of loyal altruistic gently caress up who's in over his head with all Matt's shenanigans. The thing that the supporting characters did was establish and show that everyone can make a difference, however small, that battles are worth fighting, the law matters and that Murdock, Nelson and Page are stronger together than they are separate, despite Matt's pleading for them to stay out of it all.

This is born out in the conclusion and cements that theme rather explicitly.


Agent Nadeem was great too. Still not sure what everyone's issues are with the supporting characters in this show.

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Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Arcon posted:

What if they cancelled Luke Cage so they could just make a properly titled Heroes for Hire show.

Probably not, but it sounds good

I kind of figured this was what was happening. This and/or Daughters of the Dragon.

I hope so, at least. Iron Fist blows, but Luke, Misty and Colleen are cool.

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