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mycot posted:So you want the forum to be CineD instead? Because I think you're succeeding! Go back to jerking off and saying Hype then. enraged_camel posted:Hi, is this the Jessica Jones thread, or did I take a wrong turn and end up in D&D? Eat a dick. mikeraskol posted:I'm saying even if it was the sole focus that wouldn't make it fetishizing. I guess I didn't make my point as clearly as I wanted, I was saying that it didn't appear to me they were anywhere near a "line." As to the rest here, ok? In a vacuum you're right, but as Marvel's first female-led project it would rightfully raise an eyebrow if the entire focus was about her relationship to an abusive man. Kind-of like how nothing about Black Widow's hysterectomy and romance in Age of Ultron was bad on its own, but starts to become problematic when you realize she's the forefront representative of women in the movie/Marvel projects as a whole and all her arcs relate to who she's loving and whether or not she can be a mommy. This is most funny because holy poo poo I actually like the trailer, want to see the show, and think overall it's going to turn out fine but you point out even a tiny reservation that isn't complete endorsement and suddenly the whole thread starts freaking out.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:11
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But will the humour punch up instead of punching down? Really makes you think
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Oct 23, 2015 19:14
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Jessica's entire story is that she got in over her head and that she survived. She has trauma but she survived. Doing a character study of an ex-vigilante struggling to put her life back together is not fetishization, it's telling a story about heartbreak and how trauma does not define you, and that you can go on to live a great and fulfilling life after something terrible. It is every story about the wounded, traumatized soldier who comes home and tries to pick up the pieces of his life. The big difference is that this is a female character and she has magic powers. If you really want to turn it into a "Marvel is exploiting this female character to fetishize trauma" then oh boy. I have no idea what to tell you. You'd better boycott a lot more material than just Jessica Jones, because there's a shitload of exploitive stuff out there kids. PS, reading Alias and loving it. Jessica is a beautiful human disaster.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:14
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mind the walrus posted:In a vacuum you're right, but as Marvel's first female-led project it would rightfully raise an eyebrow if the entire focus was about her relationship to an abusive man. Kind-of like how nothing about Black Widow's hysterectomy and romance in Age of Ultron was bad on its own, but starts to become problematic when you realize she's the forefront representative of women in the movie/Marvel projects as a whole and all her arcs relate to who she's loving and whether or not she can be a mommy. Agreed, but that wouldn't really make the problem fetishizing, more just a poor choice for the first female lead. Honestly though, I'm not sure what people expected knowing the subject matter of Alias. Nobody really responded to your first post btw it was to computer parts, so you're blowing this out of proportion.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:15
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mind the walrus posted:Go back to jerking off and saying Hype then. By the same token if nobody tried to argue against the fetishism angle it would also be a circlejerk, just one in your favor.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:19
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mind the walrus posted:I believe we had a fair bit more than what we've got about Iron Fist, which is basically bupkiss. It's especially odd to me since Brubaker/Fraction's excellent "Immortal Iron Fist" series form a much more solid blueprint for what to do with the character than anything related to a solo Luke Cage story from the last 35 years. The difference being that Jessica Jones's entire development arc is contained in just over forty issues including The Pulse, while Iron Fist has forty years of stories to draw from.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:49
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Jedit posted:The difference being that Jessica Jones's entire development arc is contained in just over forty issues including The Pulse, while Iron Fist has forty years of stories to draw from. Most of those Iron Fist stories suck.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:59
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mind the walrus posted:
Its not the first one though. mikeraskol posted:Agreed, but that wouldn't really make the problem fetishizing, more just a poor choice for the first female lead. Peggy Carter going to have bust some fools heads in here.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:02
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mind the walrus posted:Eat a dick. I just don't get why people like you have so much fun making GBS threads up TV/IV threads with their nonsense political correctness bullshit.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:04
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notthegoatseguy posted:Most of those Iron Fist stories suck. Most of those Iron Fist stories end with him punching an evil kung fu man with his magic iron fist, while wearing a costume that is open to the waist, has possibly comics greatest disco collar and yellow ballet shoes. If that is the entirity of the Netflix show then I will be a happy man.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:13
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I was kind of hoping for more of a focus on random detective cases with the Purple Man showing up near the end (maybe with some flashbacks). It's just one trailer so far, but if I look back on Daredevil, that was pretty Kingpin focused the whole way through and it was still great.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:24
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Yeah, Fraction/Brubaker/Aja on Iron Fist is one of my favorite stories and it would own if they just adapted the seven capital cities of heaven straight up, but there's definitely some tonal whiplash involved in going from a dark, intimate examination of ptsd and trauma in JJ and the line between good and evil in DD right into 1930s pulp Mortal Kombat except with superhero wizards in Shangri-La.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:27
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Zythrst posted:Its not the first one though. Yeah, did you guys not watch Agent Carter? it's a pretty fun show.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:31
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Wandle Cax posted:Yeah, did you guys not watch Agent Carter? it's a pretty fun show. I did and liked it a ton. Not sure why I forgot.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:33
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I know it's not super-popular with Iron Fist fans, but the most recent Iron Fist run "Living Weapon" was pretty grimdark. They might draw from that stylistically and Immortal Iron Fist story-wise. Living Weapon fits the tone that we have for DareDevil perfectly.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:34
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I am so hyped for this.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:38
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Mover posted:Yeah, Fraction/Brubaker/Aja on Iron Fist is one of my favorite stories and it would own if they just adapted the seven capital cities of heaven straight up, but there's definitely some tonal whiplash involved in going from a dark, intimate examination of ptsd and trauma in JJ and the line between good and evil in DD right into 1930s pulp Mortal Kombat except with superhero wizards in Shangri-La. It's not diving straight in though, because Luke Cage is coming in between those two shows and is almost certainly not going to be as dark as Jessica Jones. And while Daredevil might have been about the line between good and evil, it was also a show that included straight up ninjas and mysticism on top of it's superheroics. Snak posted:I know it's not super-popular with Iron Fist fans, but the most recent Iron Fist run "Living Weapon" was pretty grimdark. They might draw from that stylistically and Immortal Iron Fist story-wise. Living Weapon fits the tone that we have for DareDevil perfectly. I hope not. I enjoyed the poo poo out of Daredevil and will quite probably enjoy the poo poo out of Jessica Jones too, but I don't want all the Netflix Marvel shows to be the same in tone and atmosphere. I want comedy shows and stuff with more humor and color in them as well as those dark and gritty ones. I want a The Flash to Daredevil's The Arrow. poo poo, I want a straight up sitcom using superhero characters, from either company. I want space operas and police procedurals and all kinds of wacky poo poo set in these universes, not a string of almost identikit shows using a different set of characters. Not that Jessica Jones looks like it's going to be that compared to Daredevil, but I don't want Luke Cage, Iron Fist or any other shows that follow them to feel they have to ape those shows to achieve maximum success either at the same time.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:58
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I expect Luke Cage to have at least one utterance of "Sweet Christmas" or "Where's my money, honey"
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Oct 23, 2015 21:02
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tsob posted:It's not diving straight in though, because Luke Cage is coming in between those two shows and is almost certainly not going to be as dark as Jessica Jones. And while Daredevil might have been about the line between good and evil, it was also a show that included straight up ninjas and mysticism on top of it's superheroics. I mean, I agree with your sentiment, but they didn't exactly pick a cast for Defenders that's going to have any lighthearted characters. Even when Iron Fist isn't grimdark, it's still pretty-much Mortal Kombat. I'm just saying that Living Weapon's Danny Rand fits right in with the cast of broken, hollow people that we have so far. He's actually too much like Matt, probably.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:07
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I'm not sure how you can look at the history of Luke Cage and Danny Rand and think that they're not light-hearted characters. Sure, Danny's books bear similarity to Mortal Kombat, but it's often missing a lot of the gore, or at least the focus on it. Even then, Mortal Kombat might have a lot of death, but it's not exactly serious and it's tone is, at least in my passing familiarity with the franchise mostly geared more towards black comedy. Goofy black comedy at that. Sure, there might be some Iron-Fist that is closer in tone to Daredevil, but that doesn't mean it'll necessarily go with that angle and I really hope it doesn't. Iron-Fist is the series I've been looking forward to most since this whole shebang was announced and I was looking forward to it primarily to see something more akin to Immortal Iron-Fist than to Living Weapons.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:16
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AnonSpore posted:I expect Luke Cage to have at least one utterance of "Sweet Christmas" or "Where's my money, honey" He will. I forget who it was, but someone did an interview with Mike Colter, and got him to say Sweet Christmas, and Coulter said that when he first read it, he was puzzled by the phrase, but once he started acting the scene, it totally fit the character.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:25
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHsD3sVcn2g
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Oct 23, 2015 21:26
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tsob posted:I'm not sure how you can look at the history of Luke Cage and Danny Rand and think that they're not light-hearted characters. Sure, Danny's books bear similarity to Mortal Kombat, but it's often missing a lot of the gore, or at least the focus on it. Even then, Mortal Kombat might have a lot of death, but it's not exactly serious and it's tone is, at least in my passing familiarity with the franchise mostly geared more towards black comedy. Goofy black comedy at that. Iron Fist being goofy black comedy with great fight scenes would be the best outcome here. I'm hardly an expert on Iron Fist. I read the new run and about 1/3 of Immortal Iron Fist. I still plan on finishing it. Living Weapon had some gore... I guess not a lot. but kinda. It was a pretty shallow style-over-substance story but I liked it quite a bit, actually.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:29
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tsob posted:poo poo, I want a straight up sitcom using superhero characters, from either company. You're in luck, DC and Marvel are both developing sitcoms, with remarkably similar premises.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:38
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Living Weapon went really action-oriented body-horror at times, it was an interesting genre blend. However, it had zero Fat Cobra which was a pretty big problem.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:40
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howe_sam posted:You're in luck, DC and Marvel are both developing sitcoms, with remarkably similar premises. Seriously? Which ones? I've been hoping for a Plastic-man sitcom for a few months now.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:41
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Mover posted:Living Weapon went really action-oriented body-horror at times, it was an interesting genre blend. However, it had zero Fat Cobra which was a pretty big problem. Yes, but the problem with the Brubaker/Fraction/Aja run as a basis is that it's A) not really possible to do and have the whole thing shot in Brooklyn, and B) as a result expensive as all gently caress to actually do and not have look silly. It's one thing to have a woman lift the back wheels of a car off the ground, it's another to create a believable dragon for Danny Rand to fist fight, or a woman who can summon spiders or a dude made of fog. Not to mention how it clashes with their seeming conception of this group as a small-scale, street level thing.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:52
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tsob posted:Seriously? Which ones? I've been hoping for a Plastic-man sitcom for a few months now. ABC is developing Damage Control, and NBC is working on a show about an insurance agency in the time of superpowers.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:55
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I would definitely watch a goofy spin off news show with a super hero host having guests on to shill their newest gadgets/super weapons as well as a sports center section that has B-level heroes breaking down fights like a football game as well as a 'Top 10 Plays' segment.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:06
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Democratic Pirate posted:I would definitely watch a goofy spin off news show with a super hero host having guests on to shill their newest gadgets/super weapons as well as a sports center section that has B-level heroes breaking down fights like a football game as well as a 'Top 10 Plays' segment. So, like a local news version of Space Ghost C2C?
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Oct 23, 2015 22:24
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PerniciousKnid posted:So, like a local news version of Space Ghost C2C? Exactly.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:45
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lol at the posts of people saying they're not going to watch this because the trailer was dark or whatever when they obviously will and also it played up the villain massively for the trailer
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Oct 23, 2015 23:01
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Which posts? I saw one from someone saying it wasn't the sort of thing they could watch (too disturbing, sounds like) and another saying they were turned off, so I could read into it that they were saying they weren't going to watch it.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:07
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STAC Goat posted:According to Wiki Ritter wasn't cast as Jones until December 2014 and she wasn't even being talked about as far back as August-October. That's basically a year before release. Iron Fist isn't going to come around until late 2016 at the earliest so it seems like we're not behind at all on the information/production progress for Iron Fist. Its just a long ways out and they only recently started filming Cage. The lack of a showrunner is the bigger concern than the lack of casting news, though how much so depends on whether IF is supposed to hit late 2016 or not until spring/summer 2017. The shortest showrunner->filming gap thus far has been five months for Luke Cage, and the filming->premiere timetable thus far has been nine months... so *if* IF is supposed to premiere by the end of next year, they probably need to have a showrunner by the end of this year at the latest, and the lead cast only slightly later than that. But if it's not coming until mid-2017, they of course have a bit more time.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:11
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:But will the humour punch up instead of punching down? Really makes you think The political correctness gone mad crew out in full force today. enraged_camel posted:I just don't get why people like you have so much fun making GBS threads up TV/IV threads with their nonsense political correctness bullshit. I know it's threatening when people who don't agree with you express concerns that something might not be handled in the best way, but when you ragepost about it or get all glib and dismissive, you don't also get to claim that the person expressing concern is the one making GBS threads the thread up. I agree that the trailer looked great, and I'm hyped as all gently caress, but I am also concerned about how the show is going to handle PTSD. Those positions aren't mutually exclusive.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:28
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It's one thing to voice concern and another thing entirely to dive into a full-blown debate. Please learn to tell the difference.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:33
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And who is the arbiter of that difference? You? I've seen this a million times on the internet. Somebody voices concern. A million voices cry out "RACISM ISN'T A THING ANYMORE!" or some equally flagrantly false bullshit, and when the initial raiser of concern responds, you get to yell "STOP ARGUING! YOU'RE MAKING EVERYTHING HOSTILE!" But it wasn't them. It was the other people. And the blame gets shifted to somebody who just had a few misgivings about some poo poo. It's happening right now. You're doing it as we speak.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:40
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enraged_camel posted:It's one thing to voice concern and another thing entirely to dive into a full-blown debate. Trailer looks amazing. I do get why its portrayal of abuse issues might make someone wary, but at this point there's no much to say other than "wait and see," with the full understanding that portraying a thing is not the same as fetishizing it. I can see why "fetishizing PTSD" is a term that might have popped into someone's head, but I also think it's very much the wrong term in this context.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:45
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enraged_camel posted:It's one thing to voice concern and another thing entirely to dive into a full-blown debate. Oh no. A debate! In a public forum literally devoted to discussion. That's terrible. The trailer does look good. I really hope it lives up to it.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:48
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Jose posted:lol at the posts of people saying they're not going to watch this because the trailer was dark or whatever when they obviously will and also it played up the villain massively for the trailer I don't have Netflix at the moment and I won't renew it to watch this. The comic was really loving dark, and judging by the trailer they made it more so. Not what I want to watch and yet another reason I read spoilers.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:51
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