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I'm pretty sure she's been cast for Luke Cage. So you'll get your wish.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:38
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Sweet Christmas!
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Nov 2, 2015 22:41
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mind the walrus posted:Y'all motherfuckers need some visual aids. These are all from the "Immortal Iron Fist" series of a few years ago that with nigh-certainty would be the basis for the show, found after literally 5 minutes of googling: The MCU in general, obviously. In a manner tonally consistent with the other Netflix shows... Well, I don't think anyone's saying it's impossible, but it's not hard to see why that could be more of a challenge.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:26
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It's not like Daredevil existed in some hardcore reality version of the MCU. It was essentially the same as the movies with moodier lighting, embracing the criminal element over the supervillain, and a much higher emphasis on what combat/violence does to a human body. Add some fog and glowing effects to Daredevil's existing style, slap some Chinese-looking set dressing around, and mute the color palette a bit and you're 50% of the way there to translating these pages directly.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:31
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Daredevil was trained by a Zatoichi-esque blind warrior and he fights a ninja who slowed his heartbeat and hid in a building so he wouldn't be detected even by super-hearing. Not some sort of "realistic" ninja, but a guy wearing a goofy colored hollywood/video game getup swinging a hookblade around on a chain.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:39
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mind the walrus posted:Y'all motherfuckers need some visual aids. These are all from the "Immortal Iron Fist" series of a few years ago that with nigh-certainty would be the basis for the show, found after literally 5 minutes of googling: I bet there is a phonebook sized 3 inch wide steel ringed STYLE GUIDE TO THE IRON FIST somewhere at MCU headquarters and 2/3 of the book is just variations on the warning: "DO NOT DRAW BATMAN SYMBOL. FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST PLEASE DO NOT DRAW BATMAN SYMBOL."
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Nov 2, 2015 23:41
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mind the walrus posted:It's not like Daredevil existed in some hardcore reality version of the MCU. It was essentially the same as the movies with moodier lighting, embracing the criminal element over the supervillain, and a much higher emphasis on what combat/violence does to a human body. I have to disagree with that. I found it so tonally and stylistically removed from the rest of the MCU that it felt like a separate universe; I couldn't really imagine this Daredevil ever crossing paths with Quake, Coulson, and Mockingbird, let alone the Avengers. Snak posted:Daredevil was trained by a Zatoichi-esque blind warrior and he fights a ninja who slowed his heartbeat and hid in a building so he wouldn't be detected even by super-hearing. And for me, those episodes didn't mesh very well with the Daredevil Fights Realistic Crime tone at all. Hopefully, S2 will balance things a bit better rather than skewing so far in the direction of groundedness; Stick being in three episodes rather than only one is a good sign. Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 23:49 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 23:42
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Barry Convex posted:I have to disagree with that. I found it so tonally and stylistically removed from the rest of the MCU that it felt like a separate universe; I couldn't really imagine this Daredevil ever crossing paths with Quake, Coulson, and Mockingbird, let alone the Avengers. I could see Black Widow fitting right in. The MCU has a pretty broad tonal palette. DD is definitely at one end of it, and it looks like Netflix Marvel is sticking to that end. Violence aside, I was pretty surprised that Vladimir, when near death and being given ultimatiums by Daredevil was allowed to say "I have counter-proposal: suck my dick". You won't find that kind of language anywhere else in the MCU. I think it's pretty clear that while Netflix Marvel shares continuity with the MCU, they are setting themselves apart tonally. This isn't really any different from how comic books work. Spiderman and Punisher share continuity, but when they aren't crossing over, their tones are very different.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:49
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Barry Convex posted:I have to disagree with that. I found it so tonally and stylistically removed from the rest of the MCU that it felt like a separate universe; I couldn't really imagine this Daredevil ever crossing paths with Quake, Coulson, and Mockingbird, let alone the Avengers. No poo poo Coulson and his band of broken toys isn't going to run into Matt Murdock, they don't really operate a lot in New York City. And if the Avengers decide to slum it in a poo poo hole like Hell's Kitchen, they have a slim chance of running into Matt Murdock the loving Daredevil. The Netflix shows are supposed to be loving gritty, not bright and happy. Insert some poo poo about the plight of the common man as opposed to the happy go lucky bullshit of a super hero, and you've got the gist of the Netflix shows v. the ABC or movie titles.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:51
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32MB OF ESRAM posted:I bet there is a phonebook sized 3 inch wide steel ringed STYLE GUIDE TO THE IRON FIST somewhere at MCU headquarters and 2/3 of the book is just variations on the warning: "DO NOT DRAW BATMAN SYMBOL. FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST PLEASE DO NOT DRAW BATMAN SYMBOL." Nah that's Moon Knight and it's just half a page-- "WHITE NOT BLACK WHITE NOT BLACK" Barry Convex posted:I have to disagree with that. I found it so tonally and stylistically removed from the rest of the MCU that it felt like a separate universe; I couldn't really imagine this Daredevil ever crossing paths with Quake, Coulson, and Mockingbird, let alone the Avengers. That's more of a fault of your imagination than the material, considering that "this" Daredevil is functionally identical to the Daredevil that's been running into the Avengers and SHIELD for 50 years. Snak posted:I could see Black Widow fitting right in. The MCU has a pretty broad tonal palette. DD is definitely at one end of it, and it looks like Netflix Marvel is sticking to that end. Violence aside, I was pretty surprised that Vladimir, when near death and being given ultimatiums by Daredevil was allowed to say "I have counter-proposal: suck my dick". You won't find that kind of language anywhere else in the MCU. I think it's pretty clear that while Netflix Marvel shares continuity with the MCU, they are setting themselves apart tonally. This isn't really any different from how comic books work. Spiderman and Punisher share continuity, but when they aren't crossing over, their tones are very different. Bingo. Thor's solo book vs. Thor in the Avengers vs. Thor cameo-ing in Daredevil all strike extremely different tones despite being the same character doing the same things. Hell Luke Cage in the Avengers vs. Daredevil are tonally different as hell but still clearly the same character.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:53
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Snak posted:Not some sort of "realistic" ninja, but a guy wearing a goofy colored hollywood/video game getup swinging a hookblade around on a chain. While on fire.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:53
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Coffeehitler posted:No poo poo Coulson and his band of broken toys isn't going to run into Matt Murdock, they don't really operate a lot in New York City. And if the Avengers decide to slum it in a poo poo hole like Hell's Kitchen, they have a slim chance of running into Matt Murdock the loving Daredevil. The Netflix shows are supposed to be loving gritty, not bright and happy. Insert some poo poo about the plight of the common man as opposed to the happy go lucky bullshit of a super hero, and you've got the gist of the Netflix shows v. the ABC or movie titles. You're kinda misinterpreting what I said. First, it wasn't really meant as a criticism at all (though I do think DD S1 could and should have embraced the fantastic elements a bit more without having to lose the darker tone). Secondly, there obviously isn't a good story reason for DD to team up with SHIELD or the Avengers, but that's not my point, just that the tonal contrast between DD and [insert any other non-Netflix MCU property here] is a lot greater than between, say, Thor and Ant-Man or Agent Carter and Hulk.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:00
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I meant to make a comparison between Netflix Marvel and Marvel Knights in my last post, but I forgot. So there it is.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:05
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mind the walrus posted:That's more of a fault of your imagination than the material, considering that "this" Daredevil is functionally identical to the Daredevil that's been running into the Avengers and SHIELD for 50 years. Eh, I don't think so. First of all, the MCU films and ABC series, while never as homogeneous as their detractors claim, are a lot less diverse than their counterparts in the comics. Secondly, even Marvel's grittiest street-level books, outside the MAX line, almost never minimize the fantastic elements of their universe to the extent that DD S1 did (outside the Stick and Nobu episodes, anyway). Barry Convex fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 00:17
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And again it's a fault of your imagination. If you can't imagine a tone between the wild silliness of the Avengers/AoU and the self-serious grimness of Daredevil then that really isn't the material's problem. It's not even hard, just play up the contrast for humor which is at least 2/3rds of the appeal of seeing characters like the Avengers in the first place-- how does a tech genius react to a Norse God-Alien react to a WWII pulp action hero react to a "dark science" fugitive react to relatively modern-day superspies? Hell half of the appeal with putting the Hulk in Thor 3 is "how is Bruce Banner going to react to Asgard?" with the other half being "what from Planet Hulk are they gonna work into the movie?" For a practical example in TV specifically look at the Arrow/Flash crossover last year. The entire thematic premise is "how does a grim, self-serious vigilante react to a fly-by-the-seat-of-his-pants wacky science superhero?" It can totally work.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:25
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mind the walrus posted:And again it's a fault of your imagination. If you can't imagine a tone between the wild silliness of the Avengers/AoU and the self-serious grimness of Daredevil then that really isn't the material's problem. Arrow and Flash have never been quite as different in tone as that comparison implies, and I'm not trying to say that it would be literally impossible to make a crossover between Daredevil and other MCU properties work. But I do maintain, without (mostly) saying this as a criticism, that DD S1 didn't *feel* like it was in the same universe as any other MCU property. The showrunners kept saying that they intended to make more of a crime drama than a superhero series, and for the most part, that's what they delivered.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:40
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Eagerly awaiting Iron Fist's series being the next "Marvel would never make the official introduction to the Inhumans on a show like Agents of Shield"
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Nov 3, 2015 00:45
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Now I really want Daredevil to show up in Infinity War just so I can hear the screams of MY IMMERSIONNNNNN. Y'all need to lighten up, drat. The MCU reflects real life: tragedy and violence exist next to romance and comedy. There is zero reason to think the Defenders don't fit into the broader MCU except for spergs getting upset that their peas are touching the potatoes.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:57
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Barry Convex posted:But I do maintain, without (mostly) saying this as a criticism, that DD S1 didn't *feel* like it was in the same universe as any other MCU property. The showrunners kept saying that they intended to make more of a crime drama than a superhero series, and for the most part, that's what they delivered. This is the same PR department that claims that The Winter Soldier was a "political thriller." Regardless of what anyone says their intent was all Marvel Stuidos projects clearly work from the same base and while Daredevil as a show struck further from the pack than most there was nothing about it that wouldn't slot in nicely anywhere else in the MCU with a modicum of effort. That's my point, really. Here's how Frank Miller--the father of "gritty" Daredevil--drew the Avengers intruding on Daredevil's poo poo:  Ignore the garish aquamarine and yellow backgrounds (printing techniques for comics in the 80s sucked as artists tried to get out of the four-color scheme any way they could), and look at everything else about the tone: The Avengers are framed as imposing intruders with the perspective on 2/3 being shown from below, and noticeably shaded much darker than their usual bright selves with Thor being cast in silhouette as essentially a force of nature. Meanwhile Daredevil and his opponent (Nuke) are men on the ground--strong men, but clearly just men--not icons as Iron Man confidently stands in their way. Miller's trademark purple prose narration underscores everything further hammering home how out-of-place the Avengers are and yet they still work with a few basic tweaks to how they're usually staged and drawn. I'm not saying that to be a dick, I'm saying that because the whole "do they work can they work?" argument was one I grew tired of in the 00s back when the very idea of a Thor solo movie was ludicrous let alone 3 and by now it feels more than a little retrograde to still stick one's head in the mud and go "I just don't see how it can work!" even though there are literally decades worth of reference material to give you an idea and a billion dollar franchise proving that this stuff can work with a little effort.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:57
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The MCU will become far more interesting (and don't get me wrong, I enjoy it all already) if they diversify their pallette. Adding in "darker" elements like Punisher, Daredevil, Moon Knight, and more mystical elements like Iron Fist and Dr. Strange make it a much deeper, more intricate and fleshed out world. I don't want more loving Marvel isn't dumb, they will diversify. Their darker stuff probably won't be as dark as the Nolan Batman stuff (they've even come out and said so) but that doesn't mean it can't still be dark. And the mystical stuff has already been started, years ago, and they've already released plans for straight up mystical adventures (hello, Dr. Strange).
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Nov 3, 2015 01:37
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And God forbid the Defenders/Daredevil don't mesh with the Avengers. They don't need to. There are tons of groups that don't mesh with each other. That conflict is what drives half of the interesting storylines. People act like all of the MCU stories are building towards one gigantic movie with everyone from every movie/tv show where they all get along and defeat the bad guy, which is a boring as gently caress premise. Give me conflict (a la Civil War) every day of the week over that trite rear end poo poo.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:41
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mind the walrus posted:This is the same PR department that claims that The Winter Soldier was a "political thriller." Regardless of what anyone says their intent was all Marvel Stuidos projects clearly work from the same base and while Daredevil as a show struck further from the pack than most there was nothing about it that wouldn't slot in nicely anywhere else in the MCU with a modicum of effort. That's my point, really. Which run was this?
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Nov 3, 2015 02:08
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mind the walrus posted:This is the same PR department that claims that The Winter Soldier was a "political thriller." Regardless of what anyone says their intent was all Marvel Stuidos projects clearly work from the same base and while Daredevil as a show struck further from the pack than most there was nothing about it that wouldn't slot in nicely anywhere else in the MCU with a modicum of effort. That's my point, really. Sheesh, you're still taking "couldn't really imagine this Daredevil ever crossing paths" way too literally. Anyway, two nitpicks: first, Daredevil isn't a Marvel Studios project; second, that's David Mazzucchelli art (Miller only wrote that storyline). While there is clearly a Marvel Studios house style that's reflected in the films and the ABC shows, I honestly don't feel Daredevil reflected its influence at all. Agree to disagree, I guess. And, more pertinent to Iron Fist, that very scene from Born Again was actually one of the first things I thought of when I observed a few posts back that even the vast majority of 616 street-level books don't avoid fantastic elements to the extent that DD S1 did. It would be a good way to handle the Avengers if they were ever somehow available for a Netflix show, though, I won't disagree there.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:10
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I really don't think Daredevil avoided having fantastical elements personally. Even discounting the fact Matt has super senses, almost every episode had some degree of fantasy in it. Whether it was Stick, Stone, a demon child, Madame Gao or healing fast by meditating. The show had fantastical elements, it just managed to subsume them within the gritty feel it was striking for by downplaying their effects and not calling specific attention to them much, if at all. Which, if the producers of Iron Fist want to, they can do much the same. They can use a more subdued color palette, they can downplay the visual effects of Danny's powers, they can make the fights more visceral, they can make the tone tone more serious, they can make the villains more nuanced and the narrative more character driven and they can make the fantastical much more mundane by doing so because it won't be over-shadowing the story and standing out or calling attention to itself if they do. Personally, I hope they don't go for a subdued color palette or super serious stuff though. I want to see some over the top wuxia and Danny being a goober. It doesn't need to go to the other extreme or anything to provide it, but I wouldn't want Iron Fist to be super serious grim and gritty personally, even though it's easily possible regardless of the subject matter.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:53
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HIJK posted:Which run was this? Born Again by Frank Miller. Like most of his Daredevil stuff it was really influential. Parts hold up well, like this story, but a lot of it doesn't. tsob posted:I really don't think Daredevil avoided having fantastical elements personally. Even discounting the fact Matt has super senses, almost every episode had some degree of fantasy in it. Whether it was Stick, Stone, a demon child, Madame Gao or healing fast by meditating. The show had fantastical elements, it just managed to subsume them within the gritty feel it was striking for by downplaying their effects and not calling specific attention to them much, if at all. Which, if the producers of Iron Fist want to, they can do much the same. They can use a more subdued color palette, they can downplay the visual effects of Danny's powers, they can make the fights more visceral, they can make the tone tone more serious, they can make the villains more nuanced and the narrative more character driven and they can make the fantastical much more mundane by doing so because it won't be over-shadowing the story and standing out or calling attention to itself if they do. What I like is that every Defenders show has a high potential for overlap while still retaining their own unique identity. Daredevil is always going to have that Spider-man-derived element, Luke Cage is always going to have Blaxploitation roots, Jessica Jones has that "wounded warrior living below her weight class" facet, and Iron Fist will always have that Wuxia/Mystical Kung-Fu element. That's why I'm not too keen on the Punisher showing up because he's a bit like that episode of the Office where we visit Steve Carrell's improv class: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3u3IKMk5FmI He'll probably be solid for a season or so, but it could easily get rough.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:08
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But Punisher is an inspiration to military and law enforcement everywhere, as Bernthal so eloquently said 
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Nov 3, 2015 03:14
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Chain_of_Dogs posted:Marvel isn't dumb, they will diversify. Their darker stuff probably won't be as dark as the Nolan Batman stuff (they've even come out and said so) but that doesn't mean it can't still be dark. I dunno that one Jessica Jones preview looked darker than the Nolan Batman films.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:38
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Daredevil was as dark as the  films.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:40
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Daredevil was as dark as the I'd definitely say it was darker, but to each his own.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:41
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Doctor Spaceman posted:Daredevil was as dark as the Why is this a smiley
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Nov 3, 2015 03:46
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The Sharmat posted:Why is this a smiley I made it as a joke back when I was active in CineD, and somebody bought it while drunk.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:48
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The Sharmat posted:Why is this a smiley Because people wouldn't shut up about The Dark Knight in Cinema Discusso, I think.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:49
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The Sharmat posted:I dunno that one Jessica Jones preview looked darker than the Nolan Batman films. Could be, we'll see once it comes out. I mainly base it on an interview with one of the Marvel guys (hell it could have even been Joss) saying that they wouldn't go the "dark" route with their films like DC has. However, that could have just been in general, while still allowing the occasional "dark" show.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:09
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Chain_of_Dogs posted:Could be, we'll see once it comes out. I mainly base it on an interview with one of the Marvel guys (hell it could have even been Joss) saying that they wouldn't go the "dark" route with their films like DC has. However, that could have just been in general, while still allowing the occasional "dark" show. He was probably talking about just the films.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:36
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Jessica Jones is going to go into pitch-black territory the Nolan movies could only dream of if they have even a little courage in exploring the plot.
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Nov 3, 2015 07:29
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...Who says he would've wanted that? I'm really looking forward to more gritty Marvel Netflix fun, but let's nip this "darker = better" assertion right in the bud while we're still ahead. Nolan could've gone full Alan Moore on his Batman, sure, but frankly I'm glad he didn't.
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Nov 3, 2015 08:30
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Also, TDK and TDKR were both pretty dark, and while it's clear that JJ will be, I doubt it's going to be that much darker.
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Nov 3, 2015 08:39
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Snak posted:Also, TDK and TDKR were both pretty dark, and while it's clear that JJ will be, I doubt it's going to be that much darker. Yeah I think the Nightcap teaser shows they aren't going to be humorless.
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Nov 3, 2015 09:44
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BrianWilly posted:...Who says he would've wanted that? I wasn't implying that "darker = better" but a show where a woman overcomes her psychic rapist as he leaves a trail of bodies throughout New York is in territory Nolan's flicks only dreamt of.
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Nov 3, 2015 10:24
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Look, all I want is for Luke and Danny to have successful first seasons. Then instead of each getting another season they start up Heroes for Hire. And there's at least one episode where Danny, Misty, Luke, and Jessica go on a double date that goes wrong when ninjas show up. I really don't think I'm asking too much of Marvel and Netflix.
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Nov 3, 2015 15:10
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