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Halloween Jack posted:With regard to the end of Luke Cage Season 2...y'know, the idea that organized crime keeps a lid on random, constant, spontaneous "street crime" is propaganda that organized crime syndicates really want you to believe. I can't think of a time and place it's ever been true in practice. That's not what they're talking about and showing, though. It's the elements of organized crime that adhere to certain rules of behavior working to keep out other criminal organizations that are much less shy about public violence. In Marvel Harlem, Harlem has apparently been run by a slick, image-conscious Mafia style organization that believes in keeping the open violence out of the public eye. At the end of LCS2, they're being contrasted and set against groups like Bushmaster's drug cartel who will openly gun people down in the street.
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Jul 9, 2018 15:53
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i'm not sure i really get the ending to Luke Cage S2. is Luke just gonna let certain types of crime happen in Harlem or what? the whole final episode is a real mess, but it seemed like Luke was gonna talk with these crime lords and give them... nothing? i don't understand what the deal is. i figured he was putting them on notice that he would personally gently caress up their operations, but the ending seem to indicate that he's gonna work with them?
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Jul 9, 2018 15:54
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Serf posted:i'm not sure i really get the ending to Luke Cage S2. is Luke just gonna let certain types of crime happen in Harlem or what? the whole final episode is a real mess, but it seemed like Luke was gonna talk with these crime lords and give them... nothing? i don't understand what the deal is. i figured he was putting them on notice that he would personally gently caress up their operations, but the ending seem to indicate that he's gonna work with them? I don’t think your last two points are separate. He’s setting himself on top of all the crime lords and telling them to get their poo poo together. No more innocent people getting killed, no more open war for territory. Keep poo poo underground and out of Harlem. As long as they play by his rules, he’ll look the other way. But if they gently caress up and the problems reach Cage, then he’ll happily gently caress their operation.
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Jul 9, 2018 15:59
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Halloween Jack posted:
It just is starting to feel like the same note over and over at this point. Maybe it wouldn't have stood out so much if i wasn't watching them back to back, or the JJ version hadn't been so over the top. On another note, it's there any indication how the series plan to handle the whole infinity war thing? I know they like to keep it separate from the films and more grounded, but they do take place in the same world. Its easy to ignore an Ultron, or civil war or whatever, but how do you ignore half of everyone turning to cgi ash while still keeping it in the same universe at all? I guess if part 2 turns back time so none of it ever happened they can ignore it, but if it's fixed any other way it seems they'll need to pay lip service to it or give up on the idea the tv shows are in the mcu.
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Jul 9, 2018 16:58
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Halloween Jack posted:With regard to the end of Luke Cage Season 2...y'know, the idea that organized crime keeps a lid on random, constant, spontaneous "street crime" is propaganda that organized crime syndicates really want you to believe. I can't think of a time and place it's ever been true in practice. I think the idea is that they're going to keep a lid on gang warfare, not street crime in general.
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Jul 9, 2018 17:45
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Halloween Jack posted:With regard to the end of Luke Cage Season 2...y'know, the idea that organized crime keeps a lid on random, constant, spontaneous "street crime" is propaganda that organized crime syndicates really want you to believe. I can't think of a time and place it's ever been true in practice. That’s the exact opposite of what Luke is looking to do. He’s looking to keep all the BIG dangerous stuff out. Major deals between high level drug distributors, weapons deals, basically “hey mob bosses, keep your poo poo out of Harlem. We are now Black Switzerland. Also, Harlem’s Paradise is neutral ground and books kick-rear end bands.” Street level poo poo is still going to go on and I don’t think Luke has any illusions about that.
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Jul 9, 2018 20:46
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Exactly; Luke's wheelhouse is "punch bad dudes". He has just enough rep and charisma to keep Carbone and the other remaining power players out of Harlem, but has zero interest in protecting beyond that. If the mob fucks up Hells Kitchen, that's Matt's problem, not his. It's a very pragmatic outlook. At the same time I can totally understand why his protege/hype man had issues with that approach. There's always going to be a threat if you get complacent and rely on the status quo. I thought the finale was very well done.
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Jul 9, 2018 20:57
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Wait, do people actually think Luke Cage s2 ended on a positive note where he's doing the right thing?
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Jul 9, 2018 21:00
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Not really? The show makes clear that his solution is tenuous at best. He's at his skill set limit.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:02
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Tom Guycot posted:Wait, do people actually think Luke Cage s2 ended on a positive note where he's doing the right thing? No?
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Jul 9, 2018 21:11
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Luke Cage is setting up Harlemsterdam
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Jul 9, 2018 21:29
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Obviously they are setting up a situation where Luke can't take on everything by himself. Iron Fist season 2 will feature Mike Colter in a lead role and will be about how they form Heroes for Hire. No, I don't know why Danny needs the money and I don't care.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:35
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Tom Guycot posted:Wait, do people actually think Luke Cage s2 ended on a positive note where he's doing the right thing? I think one guy said that but only in contrast to constantly working with the cops and solving things by punching, which is an argument I kind of would agree with in real life but this is a tv show.
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Jul 9, 2018 22:48
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homullus posted:Luke Cage is setting up Harlemsterdam That’s contrapment!
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Jul 9, 2018 23:52
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Tom Guycot posted:On another note, it's there any indication how the series plan to handle the whole infinity war thing? I know they like to keep it separate from the films and more grounded, but they do take place in the same world. Its easy to ignore an Ultron, or civil war or whatever, but how do you ignore half of everyone turning to cgi ash while still keeping it in the same universe at all? If your going to pull at that thread, you pretty much immediately end up straight at 'Why wasn't Shield bothered about Kilgrave?' and 'Why isn't Captain America stopping the Blind Ninjas that are about to blow up New York' and 'Where is Stark Tower on that skyline?'. Even AOS, a show that was conceived to tie directly into the movies, pays nothing but basic lip service at this point. Keeping TV in sync with Movies with wildly different production schedules is just too hard. I'm not sure shows that explore themes around dealing with Racism, Addiction, Crime, Violence, PTSD and Sexual Assault would be meaningfully improved by a giant evil space grape wiping out half the characters out of nowhere, either. Well, IF might of.
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Jul 10, 2018 00:19
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Wamsutta posted:That’s contrapment! I was worried nobody would get it. 
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Jul 10, 2018 00:22
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i went back and rewatched daredevil s1 and the truck that kingpin's mercenaries arrive in during the last episode is from atreus plastics also for some reason that i can't explain even to myself i am rewatching iron fist. the guy playing harold meachum owns at least
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Jul 10, 2018 00:24
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Serf posted:also for some reason that i can't explain even to myself i am rewatching iron fist. the guy playing harold meachum owns at least I honestly like all the Meachums, even if the dad just turned into Yelling Bad Guy by the end. I really liked the incredible awkwardness between the father and son after the son realized he couldn't possibly kill his dad. I was really hoping that after they'd all aired their dirty laundry to each other and Danny that they'd just have to live with each other in harmonious dysfunction, but then the show wouldn't have had a finale I guess.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:26
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Pastamania posted:If your going to pull at that thread, you pretty much immediately end up straight at 'Why wasn't Shield bothered about Kilgrave?' and 'Why isn't Captain America stopping the Blind Ninjas that are about to blow up New York' and 'Where is Stark Tower on that skyline?'. Even AOS, a show that was conceived to tie directly into the movies, pays nothing but basic lip service at this point. Keeping TV in sync with Movies with wildly different production schedules is just too hard. Yeah no, I absolutely don't think they need to be chained to that, and are much better being small scale and not fighting skybeams. My concern is just they're in the same world, the new york invasion, hulk, captain America and all that is referenced. Usualy the movie stuff is easy to ignore, happening away from new York, but in this case they'll either have to make a purposeful break from the mcu, or somehow address it. Im certainly fine with them just separating from the mcu, but I'm worried in the back of my mind of a dull defenders second season shoe horning it in.
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Jul 10, 2018 01:34
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The're never going to cross over at this point. Every once in awhile someone asks Feige about it and he gives a vague answer where he hems and haws and pretends like he's thinking real hard about the possibility once Phase 23 is over or whatever. Jeph Loeb should just put out some hand-wavey "Oh, the TV shows really take place on Earth-616b, where nothing weird happened after the Chitauri Invasion so The Avengers disbanded" statement and be done with it.
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Jul 10, 2018 04:12
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homullus posted:I was worried nobody would get it. When you come at the King you best not miss. Unless the King is bulletproof in which case you're hosed either way.
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Jul 10, 2018 12:00
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Halloween Jack posted:With regard to the end of Luke Cage Season 2...y'know, the idea that organized crime keeps a lid on random, constant, spontaneous "street crime" is propaganda that organized crime syndicates really want you to believe. I can't think of a time and place it's ever been true in practice. Look up what happened in Colombia after Escobar fell, it went from a pretty bad situation to full-on Mogadishu hell
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Jul 11, 2018 05:50
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Wasn't that because Escobar was basically the god king of crime in Colombia and when he was killed all the other organized criminal elements started warring for the scraps of his empire
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Jul 11, 2018 08:42
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Nah, the Cali Cartel was even bigger. Pablo wasn't the biggest criminal, he was just the most......publicly crazy. Cali did it bigger and harder, they just kept their poo poo a lot more managed. Until of course they didn't. It got worse because there was more money involved, and people realized they could go farther with no consequences to themselves. Which continues on and on til today, where the Mexican Cartels will flat out kill randos talking poo poo about them on the internet, often in incredibly brutal ways. If your mother didn't want your decapitated head with your severed cock in it's mouth to end up on her door, she'd have raised a child that knows to shut the hell up about things that don't concern them.
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Jul 11, 2018 09:13
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Mulva posted:Nah, the Cali Cartel was even bigger. Pablo wasn't the biggest criminal, he was just the most......publicly crazy. Cali did it bigger and harder, they just kept their poo poo a lot more managed. Until of course they didn't. It got worse because there was more money involved, and people realized they could go farther with no consequences to themselves. Which continues on and on til today, where the Mexican Cartels will flat out kill randos talking poo poo about them on the internet, often in incredibly brutal ways. If your mother didn't want your decapitated head with your severed cock in it's mouth to end up on her door, she'd have raised a child that knows to shut the hell up about things that don't concern them. Likewise if you read up on El Chapo, it's like Escobar never died.
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Jul 11, 2018 09:38
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It's actually one of the things that makes the entire show look quaint. Shades turns because she kills an entire diner and burns a guy alive? poo poo, that's the first actual gangster thing anyone's ever done on this show.
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Jul 11, 2018 09:46
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Pastamania posted:If your going to pull at that thread, you pretty much immediately end up straight at 'Why wasn't Shield bothered about Kilgrave?' and 'Why isn't Captain America stopping the Blind Ninjas that are about to blow up New York' and 'Where is Stark Tower on that skyline?'. Even AOS, a show that was conceived to tie directly into the movies, pays nothing but basic lip service at this point. Keeping TV in sync with Movies with wildly different production schedules is just too hard. The events at the end of the last season of AOS and the plans for the next one basically guarantee that the resolution to Infinity War will be using time travel to stop the “snap” from ever havin* happened in the first place. Which is probably why these Netflix shows won’t address Thanos at all. If you really want to consider how these shows diverge from the MCU though, the biggest problem is Punisher. Many of the characters in that show are recent veterans from Iraq or Afghanistan - but this is almost ten years after Tony Stark “privatised world peace”. This seems to imply that at absolute minimum he personally ended the Iraq and Afghan Wars. What would a conventional soldier even do in the world of the MCU? Spider-Man showed that even working-class shmoes can get their hands on fantastical space magic weapons.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:11
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It's definitely weird how The Punisher is full of veterans and federal agents who never make more than oblique references to SHIELD, Stark, the Avengers, any of it.brocked posted:Look up what happened in Colombia after Escobar fell, it went from a pretty bad situation to full-on Mogadishu hell And even if you were correct, there's no comparison between Colombia in the 80s and NYC, or even Italy during the Years of Lead--you're talking about an unstable nation with active revolutionary guerrilla movements. In this environment Escobar was one of the richest men in the world and got himself elected to the congress before being dismissed. Can you imagine anyone in the history of American organized crime making that kind of money or getting away with the poo poo he did? The narco propaganda is that because organized crime is organized, they essentially police the areas where they do business. In reality, that organization means that they have the power to subvert the government and the justice system.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:39
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Comrade Fakename posted:The events at the end of the last season of AOS and the plans for the next one basically guarantee that the resolution to Infinity War will be using time travel to stop the “snap” from ever havin* happened in the first place. Which is probably why these Netflix shows won’t address Thanos at all. This is a wider problem with the MCU in general though. It's less explicitly mentioned in a two-hour movie vs thirteen hours of a television show, but it seems like both the movie and tv universes really undersell how different a world filled with superheroes would be. It's practical in that they still need to have characters that people currently living through modern bullshit can relate to but my first thought is always like "how the gently caress is this poo poo still a problem in a world with the Avengers?"
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Jul 11, 2018 16:50
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I see it as Iron Man dealing with some flashy threats and stuff the military can't handle directly but he's basically a privatized drone program. The military and wars didn't just disappear.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:05
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Halloween Jack posted:It's definitely weird how The Punisher is full of veterans and federal agents who never make more than oblique references to SHIELD, Stark, the Avengers, any of it. That's kinda what I meant, that Pablo's crime levels kept a lot of regular street crimes tamped down. Secuestros basically didn't happen while he was the big boss, when the organized element fell apart it really turned into crazy street level conflict central.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:55
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The best part of LC2 is that at the end we now have an indestructible benevolent black Crime Boss, now he just needs to turn the Harlem's Paradise into a Whorephanage and get his buddy Iron Fist to only speak in rhyme couplets
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Jul 11, 2018 18:57
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The Punisher pretty much had to quietly ignore pretty much all of the MCU in order to work in the form that it did. The show is a thoughtful exploration of the cost of violence, gun violence specifically. It's at odds with the comic Punisher in many ways, but good, because comic Punisher is far too Fashy for my tastes. I've said this before, you can't really take an anti-gun stance in a world where portals in the sky open and alien invaders pour through with murderous intent. Even countries like the UK and Australia which banned nearly all their guns (because people are stupid and mean and can't be trusted with them) would have seen a massive surge in pro-gun advocates. I'm firmly in the camp that almost nobody should be allowed guns, but if I lived in the MCU I'd probably be considering it at the very least. It's a world of monsters and danger. Suddenly the "responsible" gun owner next door having one bad day too many and going postal isn't the biggest threat any more.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:57
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Giant aliens immune to small arms fire isn’t really an argument for a gun. Give everyone a bazooka.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:42
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I mean realistically what you'd see is mass hysteria and people shooting their neighbour because they're sure he's a Dark Elf or whatever.
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Jul 12, 2018 04:47
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Aphrodite posted:Giant aliens immune to small arms fire isn’t really an argument for a gun. elon musk is burning away the dead wood with flame throwers
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Jul 12, 2018 06:22
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HIJK posted:elon musk is burning away the dead wood with flame throwers Reminder that he has a cameo in Iron Man 2, he's MCU canon. That means there's a 50% chance the grandstanding twat is dead right now.
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Jul 12, 2018 07:57
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Parkingtigers posted:Reminder that he has a cameo in Iron Man 2, he's MCU canon. That means there's a 50% chance the grandstanding twat is dead right now. And people say Infinity War wasn't good.
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Jul 12, 2018 08:47
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MiddleOne posted:And people say Infinity War wasn't good. They're really not the sort of person you want to hang out with though.
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Jul 12, 2018 12:47
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Wamsutta posted:Defenders had its moments but it, like all things the Hand touches, was ruined by the corniest villains possible Including Sigourney Weaver. I mean... I guess they were happy to have her? Did they think to blind us 'OH IT'S RIPLEY YA'LL!' to distract from the fact she always comes off as bored (as opposed to the jaded ennui of the immortal which I think they were going for)? And they they were like 'eh whatever just bring back the Iron Fist guy.'
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Jul 13, 2018 23:07
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