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I finally got around to watching it. A good show, I mostly enjoyed it. The best episode was the Foggy calls Matt on his poo poo episode. I hate it when shows take advantage of omniscient viewship to try to paint completely reasonable objections as "the character just didn't understand how pure (x) is" so it was nice that they used the flashbacks to emphasize that Matt was in fact a pretty big shithead.
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May 3, 2015 20:55
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The idea with Nobu is that I don't think Matt intended anything. He just deflected the attack and whoops, irony.
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May 4, 2015 01:08
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For real though, Nobu's ninja costume was distractingly terrible. It looked absurdly ridiculous, like a children's halloween costume.
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May 4, 2015 20:44
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I don't think it's really that simple. It sort of undercuts the parallels between Fisk and Matt if Fisk didn't really wholeheartedly want to help Hell's Kitchen. The major difference between them is that Fisk gives in where Matt does not. Fisk eventually goes "gently caress this, it isn't worth it, you all hosed me and I'm going to do what makes me happy" while Matt doesn't. Fisk breaks and Matt comes incredibly close to doing so when he goes to murder Fisk but doesn't. Both Fisk and Matt struggled with the fact that their altruistic goal conflicted with the devil inside of them. Matt (while not perfect) was able to avoid succumbing to it. Fisk wasn't. The fact that Fisk was murdering from the start is unimportant because Fisk wasn't dealing with catholic guilt. He was dealing with his fear of becoming his father, and so that struggled colored his actions. Fisk killing people isn't the failure it is for Matt because they're not approaching it from the same direction, but they have the same core conflict none the less. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 8, 2015 |
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May 8, 2015 01:27
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The Sharmat posted:Fisk having people killed isn't a failure on his part (by his standards). poo poo like he did with the Russian where he just loses it and beats the poo poo out of him over a trivial embarrassment? That's a failure, because that's him being his dad. Yeah. I think that is what is most interesting about Fisk. Fisk is a violent person. He is an incredibly violent person. His slow stilted words and his genuine uncomfortable atmosphere are a side effect of him restraining that, something they show early on. Fisk isn't subdued because he is cowed easily or scared. He's subdued because he is about three seconds away from brutally murdering whoever has offended him at any given chance. The reason people are loving terrified of him is because they've seen that or been privy to it. I think a lot of people expected him to be this powerful unstoppable monster like the comic Kingpin is but I think what the show did works for him better. Yeah, he ends up Dark Mirroring Matt, and that's a bit overdone, but it is really really necessary for Daredevil to have someone contrasting Matt in that direction.
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May 10, 2015 00:14
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The Sharmat posted:Loki has canonically used drones against his own citizens in the first Thor movie. drat you Obama Laufeyson!
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May 11, 2015 22:21
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Urich's death lead directly to Wesley's death. If Wesley hadn't died then Fisk wouldn't have been checking his own finances. If he hadn't done that then he wouldn't have confronted Owlsley. If he hadn't done that then the info about the cop being alive wouldn't have gotten out. It is an extremely straight logic chain and Fisk would not have fallen without what happened.
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May 18, 2015 16:34
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Snak posted:I you mean that Wesley's death lead directly to Owlsley's death? Wesley died before Ulrich? Right, that is indeed what I meant.
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May 18, 2015 16:42
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wormil posted:This chain doesn't exist. It was plain that Fisk already knew or suspected the financial shenanigans. And Wesley died because his character abruptly became careless for plot reasons. wormil posted:Wesley didn't handle financials except once, because Fisk already suspected Leland. Nope. You're straight up wrong about this. Owlsley is the one who usually handled financial matters. Fisk didn't suspect him at all. The money thing was because Fisk wanted to keep it secret because he was arranging to have Vanessa moved out of the country and she had already been attacked once. Once Wesley was dead Fisk did the numbers himself because he had nobody else he could trust. That was how he discovered it. He even accused Owlsley of killing Wesley after Wesley discovered it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:25 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 00:17
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wormil posted:. Ask yourself why. Because Vanessa had just been attacked and Fisk trusted literally nobody except Wesley. He didn't distrust Owlsley because he thought he was stealing money. He had no idea who to trust at all and so he went for the only person he unarguably trusted. wormil posted:Why do you think they brought up financials at all? Because Fisk was trying to move his lover secretly into protection, much as he did his mother, and needed money to do so, while being distrustful of everyone because of paranoia. This isn't even "well, you can read it that was." It was literally stated onscreen. wormil posted:But ultimately none of that matters to the greater point of whether these character's storylines went anywhere, because they didn't. They are dead, their plotlines ended, and everything they tried to accomplish was for naught. The fact that you think a character's plotline 'goes nowhere' if they die is remarkably depressing and shortsighted. Every single one of these character's plots went places if just by underlining the thematic core of the plot. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:12 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 01:09
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I think the fact that people go "They can't kill Urich, he's important in the comics" is a good example of why it was a good thing to do. It underlines that they're not just adapting the comics and that you can't depend on things to follow an expected pattern. It means new characters can be introduced and can be important despite not being comic characters and comic characters aren't safe from danger or consequences because they are comic characters.
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May 19, 2015 17:35
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Matt doesn't kill Nobu. He deflects an attack and it's a coincidence that Nobu dies from it. Matt also doesn't blame himself for pushing the guy into killing himself earlier in the series. Matt is explicitly talking about killing someone with his own two hands, not them (accidentally or not) killing themselves. There isn't a reason to discuss it because we have absolutely no reason to believe Matt would qualify it was murder. It was straight-up self defense and seemingly accidental as well.
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Jul 1, 2015 15:59
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There is nothing to imply Matt intentionally deflected the weapon into the light to kill Nobu. The way it is framed makes it look much more like he was deflecting the attack and it happened to hit an ironically bad place. "Matt killed a guy! Why doesn't he angst about that?" is very easily answeredby "Matt did not, in any way shape or form, intentionally intend to kill him and so he doesn't feel guilt for it." Which is morally questionable but not in a way that is out of character for Matt.
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Jul 1, 2015 19:35
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Hank Pym wasn't just a human garbage fire because of the slap though. The huge bulk of his career has been spent being a human garbage fire. His science adventurer days were far eclipsed by him being a human garbage fire.
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Jul 7, 2015 00:37
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Rocksicles posted:kudos on using garbage fire 3 times in 41 words. It is the only proper way to describe Hank Pym. tsob posted:That's true of a lot of characters though. While this is true in general, it's really true of Hank Pym. The dude didn't just have One Bad Story. He went down the slap train to Ultrontown and on a long trip down West Coast Avengers Lane before a brief stopover in Skrulltown. Dude worked HARD to be a fuckup.
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Jul 7, 2015 02:48
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That sounds a lot to me like "We couldn't afford to make this show on the budget we thought."
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Jul 7, 2015 05:27
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Snak posted:Well, it was in that shape, yes, but it wasn't actually a bow, it was a laser sword, capped at both ends, the way a "real" laser sword would have to be. it's the most baffling element of the movie, because the Blade movies have always been relatively down to earth except for the ridiculous vampire poo poo. Then Jessica Biel has a laser sword that Kris Kristofferson made in his garage, or something. 
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Jul 31, 2015 23:32
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Hakkesshu posted:Purple man can mind control people and he makes her his puppet, he doesn't get physical with her, but she's essentially mind raped. It's worth noting that it isn't just 'he doesn't get physical.' There is a tremendous huge amount of sexualization involved, including physical elements, just not intercourse. It's entirely just rape. It's genuinely horrific even without that last bit and arguably moreso.
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Oct 6, 2015 18:08
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Test Pattern posted:It's worth noting that while THAT comic was totally cool with that poo poo, Claremont called that poo poo out in X-Men just a couple of years later and rebooted Carol. Modern, Corps-inspiring Carol has way more to do with her time as an auxiliary X-man and Binary than it does with her time as an Avenger before that. When Chris Claremont calls your mind control fetish plot hosed up you know something serious has happened.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:08
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enraged_camel posted:It's one thing to voice concern and another thing entirely to dive into a full-blown debate. Oh no. A debate! In a public forum literally devoted to discussion. That's terrible. The trailer does look good. I really hope it lives up to it.
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Oct 23, 2015 23:48
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I am infinitely less interested in Angry Shootmans than mystical kung-fu action.
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Oct 28, 2015 18:10
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Daredevil Season 2 was a good show tied to a lovely show. The Hand sucks. They are boring, lacking in motivation, and being immortal magic ghost ninjas might be comic accurate but feels out of place and isn't well executed. Elektra became less and less interesting the less she became Matt's hosed Up Foil and the more she became a magical plot mcguffin. Stick is a good character tied to a lovely plot. Also the fights against the ninjas were largely boring. The plot also doesn't really feel like it goes much of anywhere. It's a lot of vague foreshadowing and generic mysticism. On the other hand the Punisher was excellent and everything involving him was infinitely infinitely more interesting than the other major plot of the season. The character was well played and humanized in a way a lot of recent comics tend to avoid. Seeing him upset, angry, even joking around does a lot more to make him at once sad sand scary than the stone-cold never-emotes superkiller version of the character. Everything about the show just seemed more interested when ti was dealing with the Punisher plot than the other one. Being comic accurate doesn't really excuse anything when the show is at its strongest being what it wants rather than when it is being comic accurate.
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Mar 22, 2016 20:40
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GlitchThief posted:The multi-season "plots" are the worst part of Doctor Who and MCU poo poo, and it's the worst part of Daredevil S2. Season 1 left a few questions, but it was mostly a self-contained story with a beginning, middle, and end. Too much of stuff that seemed central to S2 was never resolved and the stuff that was resolved barely makes sense. A shorter series that just focused on the Punisher stuff would have been infinitely better. Okay, how many of the writers would like Daredevil to deal with real life problems like the ones you face every day? *cheer* And who would like to see them do just the opposite, getting into far-out situations involving ninjas and magic powers. *cheer* So you want a realistic down-to-earth show that's completely off the wall and swarming with magic ninjas? And that is how we got Daredevil Season 2
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Mar 22, 2016 21:26
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Na'at posted:So what you're saying is you don't need immediate payoff just not payoff that comes at a later date? I think they mean that they're okay with payoff at a later date but not taking a good chunk of time from one series for a scene that does nothing but set up why a character is in another series, which effectively means no payoff for Daredevil itself.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:49
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zoux posted:Oh is that all it did? The scene set up a basic fact that could have been better integrated into the story using characters relevant to the plot and provided excuse for a character to leave the show for another show. So... yeah? Characters either find out the information in that scene in another way or it doesn't actually contribute to the rest of the season.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:53
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zoux posted:A lot of the problems I"m seeing is people rewriting story beats like that's valid crit. No? Those scenes don't actually contribute to the story. They provide information which characters find out in other ways (because that scene is mostly disconnected characters) or which isn't relevant to the rest of the season and if it is used next season will have to be reintroduced and reiterated anyway. zoux posted:Yeah it's certainly failed the MCU movies. In terms of being well-written? Oh poo poo yes. Iron Man 2 was badly hurt by all the dumb SHIELD setup.
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Mar 22, 2016 22:56
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Yeah, the Netflix Punisher is infinitely more interesting a character than Murderer Emotionless Batman.
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Mar 23, 2016 01:47
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PantsBandit posted:I mean...I guess? It's just odd to me that she walks into a newspaper office and the editor is just like "hey I like the cut of your gib here's a job and an office! Welp, I hope you know how to write!" She doesn't really. She goes to him to get information and has to basically beg him and while she's doing it he is watching her and decides she has potential.
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Mar 24, 2016 03:47
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tsob posted:Yea, I'm kind of assuming she'll be the one to organize and bring together the Defenders and appear in each show to get to know each character because of it. I doubt she'll die to do it, but she'll be the one who knows them all at least, and now she has a lack of job as motivation to become Night Nurse proper and treat heroes off the radar as her night job. Didn't they explicitly say she wasn't Night Nurse or going to be Night Nurse because the character was set to appear elsewhere (and they even admitted "we intended for her to be Night Nurse, she couldn't be, so we just changed the name and basically kept the character the same.")
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Mar 25, 2016 02:42
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Daredevil's version of Fisk is top-notch in how they continue to balance weakness and strength. It really works so much better than the comic version where he's on 24/7 and emphasizes his moments of terrifying brutality a lot better.
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Mar 28, 2016 19:48
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Blazing Ownager posted:I don't know why she is acting like killing him was such a big deal. The very concept of murdering someone, even in self-defense, can be extremely upsetting or traumatic and this season hints that Karen already has reasons to feel guilty.
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Mar 30, 2016 01:49
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I got annoyed that the DA was evil for stupid reasons because it neatly sidestepped the big flaw the show brought up and never really addressed. They were very dramatic about "the DA wants to use this to springboard her ANTI-VIGILANTE campaign. First she goes for the Punisher and then Daredevil and Jessica Jones" and all I could think was "... yes? Should she not? They commit violent crimes and break the law on a regular basis and their very existence is actually destabilizing trust in the police to the point even Daredevil acknowledges that. Even if he didn't there is no reason any law enforcement official should want illegal vigilantes committing crimes even if they're doing it for a good cause."
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Mar 31, 2016 16:07
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Zzulu posted:Other than Kingpin and Bullseye I don't really know any of Daredevils villains. What others are there? The biggest in terms of "they'll probably show up in Season 3" is like Typhoid Mary or something. Elektra, The Hand, Bullseye, Kingpin and Punisher are the cream of the crop in that regards.
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Apr 1, 2016 23:18
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Blazing Ownager posted:I just realized that Daredevil is the ONLY character in the MCU with the anti-killing obsession where as non-cinematic DC won't shut up about it. ... Spider-Man? Also DC has a lot of characters that kill. Like Jason Todd, the Red Hood, is an ongoing character with his own book where he kills people. The Green Lanterns kill on a regular basis. Most non-Batman/Superman heroes are okay with killing and just prefer not to do it as opposed to Never Kill Ever. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Apr 2, 2016 |
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Apr 2, 2016 08:32
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BrianWilly posted:Unless the Nu52 changed more than I thought, this is misleading. Members of the GLC being allowed to kill is a very big deal and almost always depicted as a bad thing. Guy Gardner is the only main GL who would willingly kill, and even then he's mostly talk. John Stewart is an ex-marine who regularly creates guns out of green energy to shoot people with. Simon Baz carries a regular gun in case he needs to shoot people and his ring is out of energy. Pretty much all of the GL stuff is basically a mix of space cops and space soldiers.
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Apr 3, 2016 00:05
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BrianWilly posted:The guns and bullets made of green energy -- and I'm not making GBS threads anyone with this, this is certified canon -- aren't lethal unless the GL in question wills them to be lethal. When I said that GLs being allowed to kill is a very big deal, I meant that there was a literal programming lock on their rings making them unable to deliver killing blows until the threat of the Sinestro Corps caused the Guardians to lift that restriction. Geoff Johns is a bad Green Lantern writer.
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Apr 3, 2016 01:03
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Gynovore posted:So Castle kills doofus in jail, he told Frank before he died that the big baddie is named 'Blacksmith''. Then Kingpin comes to Castle later and says "Hey, you want to kill Blacksmith, right? Don't ya? Hmm? Don't ya? I'll let you get free, go get him!"" I was under the impression that Kingpin already knew everything in advance, possibly because he was the Kingpin, and that Castle was just a murder weapon.
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Apr 19, 2016 23:19
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Toxxupation posted:I, too, get mad when a central defining element of a comic book character is introduced. "A central defining element of a comic book character" doesn't mean it's good or presented well. Daredevil killed off Ben Urich in the first season. It is under no obligation to do things like the comics and that isn't an excuse.
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Apr 30, 2016 18:11
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Toxxupation posted:Then that's the argument. The argument isn't that ninjas are stupid or don't make sense or break immersion (when, reminder, you are watching a comic book TV series), it's that the presentation of ninjas was stupid, didn't make sense, or broke immersion. The execution is the issue here, not the conception. I'd argue that the concept of magical immortal ninjas in a series that so far is very down to Earth aside from the main character having a very mundane superpower is a bad idea. The fact that it was in the comics doesn't excuse it because it goes against the feel and tone of the show almost every time it shows up. It also seriously hurts Elektra who goes from being someone who embodies the dangerous aspects of Matt's personality to being a magical superbeing who was lying the entire time and retroactively makes every interaction she has with Matt to that point worse.
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May 1, 2016 03:32
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Toxxupation posted:If you have ever read any Daredevil comics, or know literally anything about Daredevil as a character, he fights ninjas. Who gives a poo poo? A television show shouldn't be obligated to stick to the comics. "It is that way in the comics" doesn't matter. Ever. There is no point where "it is that way in the comics" is justification for something that hurts the story. The fact that it hurts the story because of poor execution doesn't matter because that cut goes both ways. A story can also be better for deviating from the comic as long as the execution is good.
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May 1, 2016 05:08
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