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Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Am I the only one hoping that, if this actually goes over well, they consider doing a Punisher Netflix run?

It seems like the only venue they could get away with absolutely unrated violence or a hard R without dicking up the franchise. And about the only hope to ever see a decent live action version.

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Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


OldSenileGuy posted:

On another note, do people think the spoiler policy is good as-is for the Marvel Netflix shows? Or should there be a change to something like "use spoiler tags for one week after it is released"? I feel like the Marvel Netflix shows are something that a lot of people are going to want to talk about/hear people's impressions of, most likely before they've had a chance to watch the whole season themselves.

It's really hard to do a thread for Netflix shows for sure. Most of them I watch I don't actually check the thread until I've finished the series because it's almost impossible, even with the best of intentions, to avoid spoilers entirely that way.

Compounding that fact is if there is one thread for all the different shows, it's one tricky policy to set.

Arrgytehpirate posted:

I'm so excited for Daredevil. He's really a badass character and a lot of people had that awful movie as their introduction. Hopefully this show gives the character some much needed love.

I have to admit, Daredevil is the character I am least familiar with; I knew the basics but I was kind of surprised how violent/gritty the character is; I kind of viewed him a cut-rate blind Spider-Man before, simply because I didn't know that much about him.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Mar 12, 2015 around 07:10

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Review numbers ceased to be meaningful a long time ago. For some comparison, Metacritic has Better Call Saul at a 78. Daredevil is right now at a 75.

But it also thinks some obscure and lackluster TV shows are in the high 80s.

I've given up on any review system that is number based outside of maybe thumbs up, thumbs down, at this point.

ED: Daredevil only has such a low rating because of a single review hurling a 45% into the mix. So looking good. I still have no idea how Saul does so badly on Metacritic, but is so high on Rottentomatoes. It deserves the latter.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Apr 9, 2015 around 22:37

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Well that was a great show, but i hope a second season can continue as strongly with Fisk no longer in the same position. Also honestly the closer he got to comic Daredevil near the end, I think the tone suffered a little bit - leaping off a rooftop in an iconic night shot and all this talk of the city 30 seconds before felt a little like it was pushing Dark Knight territory a bit hard, more than usual even. The grittier the show was, the better it was, though the Stick episode was a lot of fun.

But overall, that's just minor nitpicking. Absolutely badass series and I'm definitely on board with season 2.

ED: Also perhaps a stupid question or something I missed, but it seemed like Foggy/Karen were clearly building a relationship, then abruptly Foggy bangs his ex girlfriend and then they suddenly act like they have a brother/sister relationship. Now mind you, I think that's entirely fine as a transition, but it seemed like there was not so much as a single scene between romantic interest/friend or sibling interest. It's just like they decided to take a hard left with it. Am I alone on that?

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Honestly people keep picking on Daredevil's normal rogue's gallery, but I think he's got some decent characters in there.

Seeing how "I fight the urge to kill and struggle to avoid doing so" Murdock would interact with "Kill them all, then make sure they stay dead" Castle would be well worth it. I almost don't want a Punisher show now, I just want him to become a recurring character on Daredevil. Somehow I think he'd work far better in a supporting role there.

Plus that way you could also expand Daredevil's rogue's gallery to the Punisher's, which is effectively "every villain that still has a pulse."

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Snak posted:

I don't mean him. Matt beats the poo poo out of a lot of people for information. Can he really be sure they all deserve it?

It could be worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf4vrAnbT7I

God I hope he's added to season 2.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at May 1, 2015 around 08:35

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


PantsBandit posted:

Daredevil is blind Jack Bauer.

I think the actual daredevil costume ended up being dumb looking. I liked the mask more.

Except Jack Bauer managed to kill 309 people in 9 on screen days, which is pretty hilarious.

Also, I agree. There were several comic elements they abruptly shoved in that felt damaging at the last minute, to be entirely honest; it was like suddenly they were like "poo poo! We better put all this iconic stuff in right the gently caress now in case we're not renewed!" during production. I hope they keep it in check next season.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


PantsBandit posted:

Pictured below: An intimidating figure



Serious question about the guy who designed it: Did he act completely balls out 'special' in any instance except when Daredevil fought him?

I mean he didn't seem like the brightest guy or anything but he seemed absolutely normal when he showed up before, then the second Daredevil shows up he's making stupid faces and acting like a 7 year old.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


dj_clawson posted:

Yeah, the skintight red leotard thing doesn't look good in real life. They had a pretty massive issue coming up with a costume for the 2003 movie, and it took up a lot of production time (the making-of goes into ridiculous detail about this). I can't really blame them for what they settled on.

I know they wanted to do the strong cloth thing, but I have to admit, I kind of wish they just said they developed ultralight regular armor and put him in what amounts to red kevlar with a red military-style helmet or something.

The reverse of what they wanted, the suit reveal is the show's low point, not it's high point. Not enough to make the show bad of course, but it seems like the single biggest complaint from everyone who watched the show. Of course, if that's the biggest complaint anyone can muster, it's a good show.

I just hope poor Daredevil doesn't end up like Frank Underwood as far as Netflix shows go, or he won't be competent enough to fight a small child by next season.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Boogaleeboo posted:

e: Really the only thing he stresses is murder. He's fine with most things up to and including unprotected sex with lots of women. So basically he's a perfectly normal Catholic.

Still I'm pretty sure if this show ever decides to do that infamous AIDS storyline, it'd be jumping so far over the shark the shark would never even see it.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Hobo Clown posted:

Just finished this the other day and caught up on the thread. Really dig the show, love the fight choreography and the fact that Matt actually gets the poo poo kicked out of him all the time. Also really happy with the cast.

I think all are in agreement we want him to get the poo poo kicked out of him even more next season; the second episode Old Boy esque fight was the best fight in a season of great fights.

The momentum, the fact people are winded and stumbling and taking breaks.. it works wonderfully with the show. I want to see more of it, even if Daredevil does less than those around him.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Snak posted:

I think it's because, while Matt and Fisk are the product of similar circumstances, they have always been fundamentally different people. They have a lot of similarities that are relevant to their adult lives, but they are both of a different nature and a different upbringing. The similarities are apparent to us, the viewer, and to Fisk, because Fisk has a twisted world view. Matt doesn't buy it because he didn't get to see Fisk's flashbacks. It's funny how we get to see every character's response to learning that Fisk killed his dad, and they are all basically "Fisk is a horrible monster! Look at what he did when he was a kid, he's always been evil!".

Somehow, I don't know what I did, I skipped the flashback episode on Netflix's continue option. Since it was mostly a flashback, there were only a few things that didn't make sense to me in the following episode.

But the main point I was bringing up is I saw the episode where they discovered he killed his father first, and then I saw the flashback as to when he actually did it. While the stuff unrelated to that got a little out of sync, I honestly am glad I watched it that way, because it really did make the reveal better: Because I totally bought the "Holy poo poo, Fisk killed his father with a hammer? No wonder he's a hosed up psycho...." and then I saw the why and how, and it was actually kind of an awesome twist. I almost wonder if they should have structured it like that on purpose.

ImpAtom posted:

Yeah. I think that is what is most interesting about Fisk.

Fisk is a violent person. He is an incredibly violent person. His slow stilted words and his genuine uncomfortable atmosphere are a side effect of him restraining that, something they show early on. Fisk isn't subdued because he is cowed easily or scared. He's subdued because he is about three seconds away from brutally murdering whoever has offended him at any given chance. The reason people are loving terrified of him is because they've seen that or been privy to it. I think a lot of people expected him to be this powerful unstoppable monster like the comic Kingpin is but I think what the show did works for him better. Yeah, he ends up Dark Mirroring Matt, and that's a bit overdone, but it is really really necessary for Daredevil to have someone contrasting Matt in that direction.

The funniest thing in the whole show is how the character, out of everyone, who was badass enough to take both Daredevil AND the Kingpin off their feet (at least briefly) was loving Leeland.

Made all the better by the comedic "I'm going to have to get my stun gun!" line. It sounded like such a bad joke at first. He may have died, drat it, but he died with more successful attacks on arguably the two most important characters of the show which is more than 99% of the other goons managed.

Omnomnomnivore posted:

this is basically peak Frank Miller before he lost his mind and I like it a lot

I hate how he lost his mind in such a lovely, horrible way to the fact it's hard to even bring up some really awesome stuff he did once. It'd be like talking about Terminator if James Cameron turned out to be a Klan Nazi, instead of just getting obsessed with deep sea diving.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at May 10, 2015 around 05:58

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


dj_clawson posted:

Since Nobu attacked him, and he defended, manslaughter is probably the charge that would stick, if he couldn't argue self-defense, which he easily could.

If New York was a stand-your-ground state, Nobu could have straight up murdered him and gotten off free.

Just saying that if a ninja ever kills an intruder with a chained sword-blade and claims stand your ground IRL, it will be the single greatest stand your ground case ever made.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Serf posted:

RE: crossover with the larger Marvel universe

I love that this is the same universe where a dude commits suicide after saying Wilson Fisk's name, but at the same time Hydra is plastering their logo on the walls of their labs and using it as loving letterhead on inter-office memos. No sarcasm, that disparity in tone is fantastic and endlessly amusing.

That's nothing.

Instead consider that while Fisk was bashing a guy's head to literal mash potatoes, Rocket Racoon is somewhere out there with a tiny dancing Groot and riding shirtless on the outside of a spaceship with a missile launcher is totally possible... also it's the same universe in which an alien utopian planet populated with pink humans was saved by a dance off.

ED: Don't take this as Guardians hate, it sure isn't. It's just the most insane tone contrast there is in the whole MCU.

Aphrodite posted:

I'm pretty sure they'll be kept pretty separate like how they already are in the comics.

They don't call Daredevil and Luke Cage up when an alien fleet invades. Those guys sometimes have to pitch in, but they're not teaming up with Thor.

I don't know, Daredevil still has more powers than Hawkeye or Black Widow, and could arguably hold up against Captain America.

If any MCU TV character makes the jump to a 3rd Avengers or Civil War cameo, it might be Daredevil: In part from the popularity and ratings, and in part because I do actually think he could hang without being out of place. The ironic part being if any of them cameo'ed on Daredevil they would be out of place.

Strange how that works. Maybe it's just me.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at May 11, 2015 around 17:25

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


dj_clawson posted:

I'm still not entirely sure why people didn't en-mass convert to Norse paganism in the MCU when they found out that it the mythology was correct and a god was running around helping them beat up aliens. Maybe people have, and they just haven't mentioned it? That's why no one outside Matt and Father Lanthom ever mentions religion?

They do glance over this a few times in the movies, including Cap's "I believe there's a God, but he sure doesn't dress like that" or something.

I think that the narrative in the MCU is that it turns out the Norse Gods were based on something, but aren't actually Gods in the way we view them, nor were they responsible for the creation of our planet or anything: It'd be kind of like everyone in the Stargate universe finding out Ra existed and start worshiping Egyptian Gods even after finding out they were basically just hyper-powerful aliens.

Thor's really riding that line right now; there's definitely magic, but they treat it as either crazy technology or just more superpowers that come with his race. Even Agents of Shield tends to treat them as hyper-powerful aliens when they're talked about. Still, you're right, that's more than a lot of religions give and there should totally be norse cults popping up everywhere right along conspiracy theories (that are probably true in this universe) that tie all the nazis obsession with norse stuff to HYDRA.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Serf posted:

According to what we know from Thor, their magic is actually just highly-advanced technology, beyond our understanding. Which is bullshit considering what it can do, but that is the canon explanation. How this relates to Dr. Strange and Iron Fist and the Hand I don't know. I'd love for Thor to see Dr. Strange cast a spell and just go "okay yeah that's magic."

I think one way they could make it work is the fact that a lot of humans have started showing up with seemingly magic powers they got from technology (i.e. the Hulk) so maybe the "technology" part in the crazy way the MCU works is what they did to give themselves superpowers in the first place. Though other things, like how hard Thor's hammer is to pick up, screams magic.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Snak posted:

Edit: I've probably watched about as many episodes of HoC as there are of Daredevil. While Daredevil has significant chunks of screen time devoted to action scenes, HoC is entirely conversations, and yet I know a lot more about the characters in Daredevil and find them a lot more interesting than the characters in HoC. The protagonist of HoC literally talks directly to the audience to "explain" things to us, and yet there's just not a lot there.

House of Cards was absolutely great up until the third season.

What happened in the third season wasn't immediately apparent, but the main character basically went from a master manipulator with clear plans and strategies to a complete incompetent boob trying to push a lovely sub-par bill. To put in perspective the second he brought up his dumb idea for employment I was going "Oh man, I wonder what kind of long term scam this is to turn his enemies on each other?" only.. it never comes. Ever. He goes from a force of nature to completely incompetent pussy the second he gets what he wants.

Definitely one of those shows where it builds up so momentum it took me a lot of episodes to realize it was all deflating. Here's to hoping Daredevil stays awesome by it's third season.

Mu Zeta posted:

I think The Dark Knight was like #2 at some point.

I'd argue it does belong in the top 50 at least.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Habibi posted:

Yeah, personally, I enjoyed the Murdock v Nelson episode a whole lot and thought they did a good job of framing Foggy's concerns in a rational manner and making them personal to Foggy.

In other shows that could have been a groaner, a plot-stopping episode morality play.

But they managed to make it one of the best of the whole season. I definitely applaud the writers for managing that.

Habibi posted:

Like, yeah, he probably has a little ground to feel betrayed even if he doesn't disagree 100% with what Matt is doing in his spare time.

Plus the fact Matt might as well be able to "see" and has let Foggy believe he was blind this whole time. I can see why that would piss off someone close to you.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at May 26, 2015 around 16:12

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Kheldarn posted:

You forgot that Squirrel Girl is their babysitter.

When will Netflix make this?

Seriously next April 1st they should announce it, real or not.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


bobkatt013 posted:

Oh I thought you were just talking about this part of the comic


Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless



Holy poo poo.

That is literally the best (and not one I thought of before) casting picks I could have gone for. Guy should make a loving perfect Frank Castle.

Midnight City posted:

That seems like a strange career choice for Bernthal, he was just in Wolf of Wall Street and Fury.

Liked him in both but just saying, strange move.

More and more serious actors are hitting up serious TV. It's not the "step down" it once was. In ten years you'll likely see more and more major stars doing TV stuff that you just wouldn't today. Maybe sooner.

Gyges posted:

Yes, but New York does not equal Hell's Kitchen, Manhattan and he seems to get outside New York than more than most Marvel characters. Extra dimensions and space excluded, of course. Marvel already has an issue with almost everyone being from/living in New York City, they really don't need to further compress everyone down to being from a specific neighborhood of the city.

I'd dig if his backstory was changed so that they were coming back from Central Park, instead, and got killed in the Kingpin's "blow up all the Russians and huge parts of the city" plan. That puts them in the direct crossfire between crime and Daredevil and could make for a hell of a good entrance to the character.

Plus it'd be a nice callback to his first comic appearance, just replacing Spider-Man with Daredevil as the one he's trying to kill.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2015 around 01:15

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


BiggerBoat posted:

Punisher works perfectly with what Netflix has done so far with DD and I can't wait. Now who's going to play Bullseye?

They just try and try and can't get the character right in film but this should be the perfect lead in, even if he's primarily a supporting character. I've been rambling about this since the first Daredevil trailer came out.

zoux posted:



Which comic is that and apparently he has a giant neck tattoo

I hope they look at Welcome Back Frank and Garth Ennis Punisher for inspiration exclusively though. I still remember the first time I read the issue of Punisher MAX after Ennis left, and I didn't realize at the time. "Why is this such a huge piece of poo poo?" It never got much better.

I'd honestly say he's the definitive take on the character but that would be an understatement.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2015 around 01:27

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


zoux posted:

Also that Jason Statham thing could be all LR covering a bad rumor.

I can see why; Marvel's contracts have been described as "Draconian" due to the need to retain actors for so many interconnected movies and properties. I don't feel much sympathy since Marvel does seem to get even it's bit part actors a lot of work and the very nature of the MCU requires contracts like that.

But I wouldn't say someone like Staham, who seems to enjoy jumping from movie to movie and doing the occasional batshit side project like Crank, wouldn't want to get tied down into the MCU if it involved anything more than a one shot villain. Also here's the quote:

Jason Statham posted:

A lot of the modern sort of action movies I see, you know, Marvel comic sort of things, I just think, any guy can do it. I have no ambition. I mean, I could take my grandma and put her in a cape, and then put her in a greenscreen, and then have stunt doubles come in and do all the action. Anybody can do it. I mean, they’re relying on stunt doubles, and greenscreen, and $200 million budget, it’s all CGI-created. So to me, that is not authentic.

See, I can't blame him. He would hate being an Avenger, because there's a lot of that. It's not his kind of movie, and I kind of respect where he's coming from... ironically, Daredevil was the exception to the rule, and it's likely he hasn't seen it.

If anything, for the exact reasons Statham described, I think I enjoyed every single action sequence in Daredevil more than those in Age of Ultron, even though those were fun. Really whoever pitched it to him needed to open with the clip of the hallway fight and say "This is what we're doing."

But Bullseye, none the less, is too important a character and would tie him down for way, way too long.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2015 around 01:37

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Medullah posted:

I'm in the minority in that i actually liked Ray Stevenson as the Punisher and thought War Zone was closer to what i was looking for in a Punisher movie than the Thomas Jane one (though I blame that on script and directing, Dirty Laundry showed me Jane could pull it off)

They kind of nailed the Punisher there but the world felt too cartoony around him to make it really stick. That's why I can't say it's a great take on the character despite being the best take thus far.

I will totally say that the best take on the character outside of Ennis was from the video game on Xbox of all things. The insanely violent interrogations that nobody let people walk from combined with the flashbacks in gameplay... yeah, that game was way the hell better than it had a right to be. It had me from the moment the second mission opened up by having you emerge from a casket at a funeral to machine gun everyone in attendance.

ED: The only good thing to come of the Thomas Jane Punisher is their take on the Punisher logo. You still see that one floating around in stores today. It's a way better design for film/TV than the comic skull, and the Max series skull started taking on a similar look. That was literally it. The sad part is the movie would have been honestly better if it wasn't named The Punisher.

Medullah posted:

Though, how hilarious would it be for them to cast Dolph Lundgren as the Russian)

I don't care what role, if they even got Dolph Lundgren for any part for an episode or two of Daredevil that would be amazing.

And yeah. Honestly if they introduced the character exactly as they introduce him in Punisher MAX 1, I'd be happy: Shooting a 97 year old mobster in the head at his birthday party, followed by massacring the party goers that went after him.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 10, 2015 around 01:47

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


mr.capps posted:

A good Punisher show would be like the Mission Impossible tv series or Burn Notice, except all his plans just lead to killing and explosions in clever ways.

Honestly it'd almost need a Sin City-esque voice over. Also the other trade mark of the good Punisher stuff is he gets the utter poo poo kicked out of him, which Daredevil has down very very well.

As much as I like the character, I think having him pop up across all these street level hero shows might actually be a better fit, in particular Daredevil.

program666 posted:

I don't know old punisher well enough but I actually find it really loving hard for people to be able to adapt Gart Ennis comical run for the punisher.

Ennis's run on Punisher MAX should be the bible for the character. Anything else is questionable.

thrakkorzog posted:

About the only way to keep him as a sympathetic hero is to have villains that are a lot worse than him.

The thing is, he's not really a sympathetic hero. Not exactly. He is to criminals what Jason Vorhees is to pot smoking naked teenagers.

It's not just that he shoots and kills the criminals, it's just how relentlessness he is. He smashed a woman into bullet proof glass so much it came off the hinges and she finally went down a 80 story drop, in the same issue (if I recall) he lit a guy on fire tied to a chair. Granted they were really bad people, but yeah, holy poo poo.

Whenever they try to sanitize him or make him less violent they wreck the character, because he's not supposed to be... as you say, sympathetic. He is a full on psychopath, but his chosen victims happen to be bad people.

ED: I hope they bring in his old SAS tough-bastard buddy from the Max comics into the MCU at some point and find a way to keep him old.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 11, 2015 around 08:26

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


ruddiger posted:

Remember when Fox announced they were going to do a Punisher TV series and it sounded like an even dumber version of Dexter? We can get ultra fascist, overtly grandpa racist punisher and I'll still embrace the character more than I would have that other attempted abortion.

I should note something else interesting about the good part of the Max run, and the only way they could make it into a TV show: The books really weren't about the Punisher, as a character, very often. He is a force in the background, while the main story is almost always about the criminals / the crime they are committing. They are always the central part of the story; in fact, I'd say just as often, his actions are written from their POV rather than his.

It definitely helps keep it a more interesting concept without hitting the "Hulk problem."

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Periodiko posted:

I don't understand the appeal of the Punisher as a protagonist. He just seems like Batman, or any other rough street-level vigilante super hero, but without the restraint or psychology that distinguishes them and occasionally makes them interesting. I don't read comics so maybe there's something there I don't understand. The whole thing seems very 90's comic anti-hero, and the whole "military vet washes the city streets clean in blood" seems like a tired sort of right-wing fantasy. Like an unironic Rorschach.

He is Jason Vorhees if Jason Vorhees had military training, ludicrous weapons, and chose criminals over stupid teenagers.

I think that's the core of it. The motivations for him doing what he does are the backdrop. After that, it's about watching him set to work obliterating everything in his path, usually getting the utter poo poo beat out of him along the way. But there's no reasoning with him, no bargaining with him. You cross his line, and you pissed off the Terminator.

Again, that's why 99% of the good Punisher comics actually feature on the people around him - villains or supporting cast. It's the same reason as slasher villain isn't in 90% of the movie. You can do some cool stuff with the character, but really, watching his enemies increasing desperation and plans from their POV is what kind of makes it work.

There's obviously a little more to it - mostly heavy noir style and all. Dexter is an awful comparison, Rorschach is not, but neither are quite as overkill as the Punisher. Really that kind of sums it up: The character is walking overkill.

ED: And I do mean overkill, I think he might have the longest list of insane "WHAT THE gently caress" kills in all of comics, some awesome and others hilarious. Plus the fact Marvel heroes keep trying to work with him under no killing rules, and that never ends up well; should be why I think he'll work great on Daredevil.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 26, 2015 around 16:29

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Red posted:

I dunno.

The Punisher does have moments of doubt, and flaws. He's spared villains in the past when they've done the right thing, and has his own moral code. In his own books, he's struggled with trust issues and his sidekick(s).

When guest-starring in someone else's book, it's usually about the villains running from him, or the heroes trying to restrain him.

I'm not sure outside of the big stories/MAX Run, but outside of petty criminals (he doesn't go around chaingunning potheads), the only time he ever spared criminals I can recall he immediately regretted, and often went back on that decision. He also shot his only long time ally in the head for compromising his ethics, though he did give him a chance to run first.

He does have his own moral code but it's frighteningly black & white and often bat poo poo extreme.

Snak posted:

The problem with The Punisher is that he either makes people uncomfortable or much too excited. People who like Spiderman like it because it's a fantasy world where you can beat the loving poo poo out of people and still be the good guy. People who love hosed up violence and revenge gravitate towards Punisher, which perpetuates the idea that Punisher is awesome because he tortures and kills people. Like when I see someone wearing a Punisher shirt, I immediately think "douche bag". The Punisher isn't someone you're supposed to want to be, but he represents the part of all of us who wish we could punish bad people. The Punisher is the embodiment of cyclical violence.

Again, I look at it the same way as people who might like cheese slasher movies. It's not torture porn, it's ludicrous (and stylized) overkill but grounded enough to not be 90s overkill. I think it's impossible to find the way, way over the top violence of the Punisher really amusing without the "I want to torture and kill people!" aspect, that's really kind of odd you'd think they had to go together.

I mean, you have an Immortan Joe avatar. Should I assume you wish you were a mad slaver cult leader?

Bottom line, there's a scene from the Punisher game that isn't out of line with his character at all: He ices a mobster, then goes to his funeral, gets in his coffin, and bursts out with an M60 and takes out the whole thing. It's ludicrous, over the top as all hell, and I don't think you have to "want to torture people" to find that awesome. To be fair part of why MAX works is they often put him against people that are really, really awful, not just normal comic book awful, but even the character isn't under a delusion he's the "good guy."

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 26, 2015 around 16:43

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Aphrodite posted:

A lot of the things people are saying are not objective facts. Punisher has varied a lot.

Like he certainly has thought he's above it all in past runs. There have been attempts to portray him as a good guy, etc.

I am basing almost all of what I'm saying off of Ennis's run.

The Punisher has been turned into everything from a werewolf to a black man (no kidding), has had crossovers with Archie, and obliterated the MCU in a few spin-offs, his history is all over the map and absolutely bat poo poo. So you're not lying.

My view of the character is from more or less a specific take, that has colored all takes after. And the take most likely to be the main inspiration behind the character that will appear on the show. There have been some really really lovely Punisher takes/comics over the years.

ED: gently caress, even this was a thing

Frankencastle

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 26, 2015 around 16:47

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Aphrodite posted:

One thing I hope they keep is Daredevil hating Punisher, being a lawyer and all.

Yeah, I hope it's an uneasy truce kind of thing that eventually might blow up, there is a ton of great contrast to be had between those two. I actually think it works out better that Daredevil's the main character and will have to react to this, than the other way around. Like I've said, the best Punisher stories are focused on the people around him, not him directly, and I think the show can deliver in spades based on what they've done so far.

We already got a bit of it with Stick and Daredevil last season.

ED: Stick and Castle teaming up would be kind of hilarious, just poo poo talking poor Murdock while being murder-bros.

Red posted:

Some of us liked Franken-Castle.

I can't say as if the concept doesn't make me laugh, mostly just pointing out how completely silly the character has been at points. Not that it's a bad thing.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 26, 2015 around 16:53

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


program666 posted:

Same thing when people dislike Superman because he is too powerful, so his stories obviously suck! I was aways of the belief that it all depends on the writer.

Except that's kinda true with Superman.

The biggest issue is when they make him incorruptible as a person AND have too many powers; the combination makes the most boring superhero ever and I've never seen anything outside of my the first Superman movie and the old serials that didn't have that problem. Mostly because that movie wasn't being 100% serious.

DC puts him up on some ridiculous pedestal so he can do no wrong, can do everything, and almost never fails in anything he tries to do. I used to just dislike Superman because he was a 'boy scout' but I like Captain America absolutely fine; he's also very much a boy scout. It's the combination. Likewise characters like Dr. Manhatten can be interesting, despite possessing Superman level power.

I can't think of a single non-campy Superman anything that I thought wasn't kinda poo poo. I even read Kingdom Come after friends raved (rightfully) about the art in it, and.. it felt like it was some meta-commentary from bitter DC writers about how Marvel put a boot in their face. They tried to frame it as a violence versus 'classic' hero thing, but in the end, their non-stop jacking off over Superman seemed to be present in every single frame.

STAC Goat posted:

Its seems like a simple natural story progression.

Matt spent most of this season struggling with what he wanted to be. All those conversations with Claire, the priest, and Foggy were all about it and he was on the brink of becoming a vigilante killer. Finally he became Daredevil and turned his back on the uglier urges and "solutions."

Then along comes a new guy who went the other way and is what Claire, the Priest, Foggy, and Matt himself feared he'd become. There's a natural conflict there even as there's a lot of guilt over the fact that he may have inspired The Punisher and that he could very well be the Punisher if he had successfully killed Fisk mid season instead of getting his rear end kicked.

Tying the theme together even more is the fact Castle is also Catholic and almost became a Priest, in just about every single version of the character. Even those scenes can be juxtaposed.

Maybe he'll wander in to the same Priest Daredevil sees for a confession. The Priest is used to Murdock's stuff but not sure how he'd react to "I killed four men with a Claymore tonight, as a distraction for the dozen more I ambushed with an M60."

Snak posted:

I agree with both of you. I really hope they do something like this. They did a really good job with Fisk, and even if they just try to copy that formula, I'm sure they will do great.

I think I liked every character in season one. Every character just felt infused with a personality, even if it wasn't a personality I liked. Pick any any character and I can immediately give a brief description of their character. I couldn't do that with a show like Arrow.

Their hatred of Fisk could really tie in if Fisk had anything to do with his family's death.

I would really dig it if they tie the bombing of the Russians to Castle's family death. That would tie him directly into the Daredevil story in many different ways without really altering things too much. They still got killed in a criminal crossfire (Fisk vs Russians); Daredevil's only involved as a red herring given to the Russians, after all.

I don't know if they will but I think it would really make it all click and fit the timeline perfectly.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 27, 2015 around 09:42

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


computer parts posted:

If you want a Superman that's both potentially corruptible and not omnipotent, may I suggest the hit film Man of Steel.

The reason Man of Steel blows is Superman is both hosed up, and nobody involved in the film seems to understand how hosed up he is. Or how dumb everyone is. His father's death is one of the most hilariously pointless deaths ever.

But yeah even when you have a Superman who's willing to throw cars through loaded buildings, it doesn't have any punch if nobody involved in the movie acknowledges it. In fact the only way I might get somewhat onboard with Batman vs Superman is if they flat out have the reason Batman wants to hunt him as being he's a murder-machine in the first movie.

In fact I'd say he's less corruptible, and really just more of a dick. I think Marvel's inclusion of scenes where it's heroes are actually trying to minimize deaths is a direct result of Man of Steel.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jun 30, 2015 around 22:29

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Chokes McGee posted:

pull up thread PULL UP

What have I done!

I keep forgetting there are actual fans of that movie, I'm so used to talking poo poo about it as a negative comparison to other superhero stuff, I don't think about the internet fan base.

... I don't hate Zack Snyder like a lot of people, so.. truce?

NowonSA posted:

It'd be interesting if Punisher's family was killed in the Russian bombings and right after he's introduced we see him going after Daredevil, since he was thoroughly blamed for that through Fisk's connections. I can't recall if DD's name was ever cleared in the public's eye for that. I guess I just prefer Punisher gunning right for Daredevil during their first meeting, rather than DD going after Punisher to try to stop his crazy murder spree.

Honestly I've said something similar earlier, but I think that would be awesome for a few levels. Not only does it tie things together nicely, it also sets up what was effectively the Punisher's first comic appearance, with him going after Spider-Man. You could pretty much do an echo of that entire sequence with Murdock instead.

It all just kind of clicks together so well I'm honestly thinking I'll be surprised if they don't go that way.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jul 1, 2015 around 13:20

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Radish posted:

This is the most Frank Miller thing ever.

Well that depends if she had a word balloon before hand that went like "I'm just a WHORE like this WHORE CITY that never stops WHORING in the NIGHT"?

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


I will say before he went crazy, Frank Miller at least had a reason to set that scene there that didn't just involve T&A with the whole sensory overload thing. Not having read many of the comics I can't imagine how badly TV Daredevil would react to murdering a random person on accident.

Also now I totally want a character who's entire thing is accidental collateral damage.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jul 4, 2015 around 12:08

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Blade 3 was such a train wreck. Snipes didn't give a poo poo and I'm not even sure if I blame him for not giving a poo poo. Literally everything sucked about that movie. The actions sequences, the plot, the villains, everything except amusingly Ryan Reynolds.

Honestly I've kind of liked the guy ever since Blade 3 since he was easily the best part of it, and I really think they should have just done a straight up Ryan Reynolds movie in the same universe. It would have been far less terrible. I'm actually on board with him playing Deadpool.. if Fox is willing to get as crazy as Deadpool should be (I doubt it).

He did his best with the poo poo sandwich he was given. I won't even mention the X-Men Origins abomination.

ED: Am I the only one that got the impression from the Blade 3 vamps that it was "A bunch of high-school intelligence vampires break into a giant empty office and sit around pretending to be important, while a super powerful vampire they brought back sits around and decides if he feels like doing something today"? Not once did they ever seem pulled together or cunning yet the movie seemed to think they were like the Blade 1 guys..

Ignite Memories posted:

Wesley snipes is the guy who was so cooperative they had to CGI a shot of him opening his eyes, right?

Yeah, they should really get him back.

http://snipeseyes.ytmnd.com/

To be fair this is a movie which had a huge scene set around a shape shifting vampire showing up at a place where they know he's a shape shifting vampire, who takes on the clever ruse of.. a guy who got killed clearly earlier in the movie, and they still let the fucker in to kill them all. Seriously, the script was so stupid, I might just give the hell up watching an iconic character get flushed down the toilet, too.

Speaking of which killing Whistler felt like a good way to make the last movie completely pointless. If the actor wanted out (and I don't blame him) just say he retired or something, or at least give him a real dramatic showdown. Dude went down killing a crap load of misguided human cops, hardly felt fitting.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Jul 30, 2015 around 21:50

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


I have to admit, I'm a little worried about the TV properties now.

Not sure if you guys heard, but the Marvel Creative Group or whatever is no longer around, and long-time Marvel penny pincher that I've heard about before was basically put into a "Him or me" with Kevin Fiege, and Kevin Fiege won out.

The reason I'm worried isn't for the movie properties, but rather, the TV properties which are now under control of the guy who's basically been kicked out of the MCU.

This sounds.. messy.

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


zoux posted:

Ike Perlmutter is the CEO of Marvel and he has a reputation for being cheap as gently caress and an inveterate micromanager. Kevin Feige, who heads Marvel's movie division, reported to him, as does Axel Alonso (comics) and Jeph Loeb (TV). Feige has made Disney a lot of money and he was sick of Perlmutter's meddling and leveraged his success to change his bosses. Loeb has always reported to Perlmutter.

Article

Also this:

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/09...mmittee-is-over

HIJK posted:

Can you or someone else explain this in more detail please? It doesn't make sense to me that Marvel/Disney would leave MCU Netflix in the hands of an excommunicated employee.

All the articles I've seen suggest that Pearlmutter still is in charge of Marvel's TV though as mentioned above, Feige now reports directly to Disney.

On the upside, this is probably a good thing for the movies; the Marvel Creative Committee was blamed for almost the entire reason the movies all followed the same formula, and were the guys who drove off Edgar Wright (and probably Joss Whedon, too). Then again, Marvel movies have also had a pretty solid level of quality, so I can't help be a little concerned.

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Sep 4, 2015 around 19:31

Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


zoux posted:

Long story short: nothing is changing for Marvel's TV division.

That's true, but the big concern is things are changing, big time, for their movie division.

I can't help but think that might cause something of a rift. I hope not.

ED: That said having heard the story behind Pearlmutter before this announcement I think it can only be a very good thing for the films to have him gone. Also this:

quote:

Ike are out of the way (trivia: I understand the reason there are no Black Widow toys is specifically because Ike, with a background in toys, believes girl toys do not sell and thus vetoed them again and again. One guy was the roadblock

Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at Sep 4, 2015 around 19:35

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Blazing Ownager
Jun 2, 2007

by FactsAreUseless


Jedit posted:

Punisher's already had two attempts at killing the MCU and failed both times.

I thought there was at least one story here he succeeded utterly? Ironically I think the only survivor was Daredevil and that's because the Punisher shot himself, right?

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