|
I finished Iron Fist yesterday. High points: Netflix Marvel's strongest female heroin to date in Ep. 5 Ward Meachum Colleen Wing Jeri Hogarth Low Points: White Danny telling Asians how to do Asia stuff Danny being a hypocrite about lying Danny becoming a worse fighter as the series goes on (I concede this may be an intentional reflection of his chi) Danny's one-two punch of being incredibly confused/naive and being surly and condescending Danny telling us "I can explain!" for half the series rather than, y'know explaining Basically, Danny Rand, but also the writing in general
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 18:01
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
tetrapyloctomy posted:That's why they needed a chemist. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 18:51
|
|
|
Gyges posted:The second most unforgivable thing to never punching a dragon is not a single play of Kung Fu Fighting(Everybody Was). I agree with everything you said before the edit, but agree with this even more, now that it's been pointed out to me.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 19:00
|
|
|
Finn Jones would have been acceptable if the writers had given him something to work with other than childlike confusion, teen "get out of my room, MOM" angst, and "we'll just go directly to the bad guys yet again and hopefully get less wounded this time" planning. He was written too clueless, too innocent, and too slow to learn from the repeated beatings he got from being clueless and innocent. I can already see that he and Daredevil will charge in to do "what's right" and I am struggling to see what would motivate Luke Cage and Jessica Jones to put up with their sanctimonious, self-destructive crap.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
Spidder posted:Sorry but "referencing the dragon" doesn't cut it. Game of Thrones "referenced the dragon" and so did EVERY OTHER tv show EVER since Lost became a success, from 'Heroes' to 'Westworld' and I'm honestly sick of it. Either make an explicitly supernatural show or just go with mundane stuff, don't pretend you're the first when you're clearly the second, just gently caress TV and its all-consuming tendency to make everything interesting normal and boring. Did you not notice the part where his fist glows? I think that is explicitly supernatural?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 23:11
|
|
|
OldTennisCourt posted:I really enjoyed all of Marvel's efforts on Netflix so far but the reviews for Iron Fist are worrying me. Should I bother checking it out? A bad movie I can deal with but I'd rather not get pulled into a lovely series. There are things to enjoy about it -- I really enjoyed the performances of the actors playing Ward Meachum, Colleen Wing, and of course Jeri Hogarth. I enjoyed the Meachum story much more than the Iron Fist crap, and the Iron Fist crap was most enjoyable when Colleen or Claire or loving Ward Meachum was giving Danny a reality check.There are nods to the other Netflix Marvel properties even when the actors do not appear therein, so there's that too? It's not lovely, but it's definitely not good. As Nero Danced posted:I will say this though: this show was the first since DD season 1 that felt consistent throughout the entire show. Unfortunately it was consistently dull. It didn't get worse, but it just didn't get much better. That's a good insight, about consistency. Arrgytehpirate posted:I watched the whole thing and drat I want my 13 hours back. I would like to believe Danny getting shittier in fights was due to his chi getting polluted. If by "Claire" you mean the way she was jammed into the story and kept there in a worse way than ever before, yeah.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 23:44
|
|
|
Lewis Tan would have been great as the Iron Fist. Like, without even changing him much from his Iron Fist role -- a different mode of spoiled rich kid, you know? A little smoother, a little more grown up, still a fish out of water. I can totally see it. An alternate universe me got to watch him as Iron Fist and it was great.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 20, 2017 23:53
|
|
|
counterfeitsaint posted:So I'm guessing this show isn't too popular based on the last few pages. I'm surprised how many people watched the whole thing and still hated it. I can get hatewatching, and I can get bingewatching, but binge-hate watching seems like a really unusual way to spend a weekend to me. I noted the "young Fred Armisen" thing too, but it went away after a few episodes. I wasn't hate-watching, I was hope-watching. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 00:53
|
|
|
Mover posted:I did like how Ward was just kinda like, man, I'm feeling especially stressed out. Guess I've got this experimental super-heroin sitting in my desk, may as well give it a shot. Addiction inhibits rational behavior.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 03:14
|
|
|
My pitches: Danny loses the Iron Fist to Colleen Wing Danny loses the Iron Fist to Ward Meachum Danny loses the Iron Fist to Davos Chi-worth Danny loses the Iron Fist to Claire Temple
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 14:58
|
|
|
Shageletic posted:
No.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 15:18
|
|
|
Max posted:I personally don't like this show all that much. I'm slowly grinding through it but I'm surprised at how everyone's characterization changes with each episode. The dialogue is also just . . . so bad sometimes. And then it goes nowhere. The person who helps him the most with his Iron Fist bullshit is Madame Gao.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 15:43
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny as a teenager finds the wreckage of the plane and evidence that a bomb went off in the cargo hold he decides to become the Iron Fist so that he can be allowed to leave Kun Lun and find out what happened. What actually happened : Danny just left for really no reason and didn't figure out his parents were murdered until half way in the season by seeing the effects of the Hands poison. Danny has no real motivation or reason to leave Jun LUN in the series Season Spoilers One Sentence that would have changed the series Danny isn't dumb and whiny.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 21, 2017 18:34
|
|
|
double negative posted:That's especially funny because I'm pretty sure Ward Meachum was the best new character in the show. poo poo, Danny wasn't even the second-best rich white dude in his own show. Ward and Danny both struggled with the Hand, control of Rand, questioning their path, and Harold Meachum. Ward displayed far more growth as a character in the process.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2017 19:04
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Roy Thomas , NOooooooooooooo. As if I needed another reason to like Jessica Henwick.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 22, 2017 20:19
|
|
|
I honestly thought the reason for Danny's K'un-L'un departure was going to be that the dragon WAS dead when the got there, and he got the Iron Fist without exactly earning it. Not feeling qualified per se to stay and guard the pass, doubting his own power, he decided to go out into the world to solve that mystery and also take the fight to the hand. Then it could be revealed that the dragon wasn't really dead or whatever, but I really thought his doubt came from his experience in the cave. Nope!
|
|
#
¿
Mar 23, 2017 14:27
|
|
|
ufarn posted:Jessica Henwick (Colleen) says in this interview that she got the role half a month before they started filming the show. She has some other videos from her training, so it looks as though she was doing a fair amount. She was a more convincing fighter than Mr. Fist was -- I can only assume she had some fight training from Game of Thrones? Or had some before that, and earning her that role?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 27, 2017 17:39
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:This show, and Luke Cage too, fail because the makers fail at the most basic of screenwriting tenements, and that is have a GREAT BAD GUY. At first I thought the bad guy was Ward, then maybe not cos it looks like it's Gao. Now Bukatu or whoever shows up and oh he's gone, no turns out it's really Harold. It's like when Cottonmouth dies halfway through and we get a new bad guy. I don't think it needed a great bad guy if the environment or the hero's own demons and perspective are obstacle enough (cf. Legion). A man presumed dead and returning to New York with a 4th grade education, a sense of self-doubt, and many groups trying to use him doesn't need Mysterio McVillain to struggle against if the show's done right.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 14:00
|
|
|
Hollismason posted:Do they even ever say what happened to the previous Iron Fist. Seems like a glaring omission. He unclenched
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 15:23
|
|
|
Gyges posted:poo poo man, how about some [something not dumb] instead of his dumb [character design, writing, fighting].
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 19:24
|
|
|
mrking posted:I like to think the The Hand was started by a weird zombie Iron Fist that resurrected and decided not to use his fists, but to use his hands. Among the show's many failures, it was a missed opportunity for the Iron Fist to give the Hand the finger.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 28, 2017 20:03
|
|
|
Alan_Shore posted:I think it does need a great villain. Nearly every great movie and show has a great villain. I agree that a great villain is valuable, but you're very wrong about their necessity. Citizen Kane. Casablanca. Lawrence of Arabia. The Godfather. 2001. The Sixth Sense. Gravity. It's not hard to think of great movies and shows without a central antagonist. Protagonists need interesting resistance, and villains are often, but not "nearly always," that obstacle.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 14:32
|
|
|
Max posted:The other half of that is that your protagonist actually has to be a good. Your protagonist and the obstacles they face both need to be good for a good show. Marvel's Iron Fist: Not a Good Show.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 14:44
|
|
|
Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Sure, but we're talking about a Marvel comic book show on Netflix, where the whole dynamic is literally heroes versus villains with some life/humanity spice dashed around. If you're expecting Sin City or Logan or Preacher out of a Netflix show, you gotta lower your expectations. I agree that you're not going to see many superhero comics without a central antagonist (although, again, Watchmen), especially not long-running ones, but Netflix shows aren't long-running series, they're one- or two-arc stories, and the majority of the ones we've seen are origin stories, where you really do not need a nemesis, only conflict.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 15:37
|
|
|
Kabuki Shipoopi posted:But his entire origin is about fighting his nemesis. That's his sole purpose. His purpose as Fist is fighting the Hand, which is an organization, not a villain. I think we are losing track of what is being argued? Somebody else said that a superhero story must have a good villain, because nearly every good movie or show has one. That statement is demonstrably false. I agree wholeheartedly that the superhero genre centers on these conflicts of individuals, but do not believe that a good movie or show requires a good villain, and that you can have a good superhero story without one, including when it is their origin. I also agree that among the things that would have improved Iron Fist, a nemesis villain is high on the list, but that it also could have been good if it were, y'know, good in other ways. Are we good?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 19:07
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:I don't know if I necessarily blame Finn Jones for a poor performance, the character was really poorly written imo. I don't think a different actor would have made it less boring. I reflected for a moment on whether the show would have been better with, say, Morgan Freeman as the Iron Fist. It would have, but only because he's got an interesting voice and it would have been a different kind of interesting to hear him say "I have to recharge my chi." The show as a narrative and as a vehicle for introducing a character wouldn't have been improved.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 29, 2017 23:59
|
|
|
notthegoatseguy posted:
Nobody, now.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 30, 2017 16:42
|
|
|
Really, I enjoyed Ward the moment he demonstrated genuine affection and care for Joy, rather than just Rand. He's not a good guy, more of a conflicted deuteragonist, but he's also not a bad guy.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 03:03
|
|
|
Snak posted:Another really cringeworth moment is when Danny walks into Karate and Kendo dojo of Coleen Wing, an american of Japanese descent, and tells her that she would make more money if she taught Kung Fu lessons. Of course she can be versed in any martial art she wants, but not a single thing about her implies she has any interest in diverging from her Samurai heritage to learn and teach Chinese traditions. She's Chinese. As was already mentioned, "Wing" is Chinese rather than Japanese, and Danny first gets her attention by speaking Chinese to her. She tells him to stick to English since she only knows a little Chinese from her grandmother or something. Her martial arts training is Japanese Bushido/samurai stuff, which is why she has a sensei rather than a sifu.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 31, 2017 19:43
|
|
|
Snak posted:I hope it was Frank Castle's I hope it was Karen Page's
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2017 20:23
|
|
|
Thaddius the Large posted:Now I'm stuck picturing Danny's stupid awkward 14 year old shutin self meeting with Luke Cage. "No, it's cool, I'm good with you people! I love Wu-Tang!" Considering how differently sensitive to race the Luke Cage and Iron Fist series were, I think having Danny learn about race and racism as an adult (with missteps at first like the above) via Cage would be the best thing they could do with Danny "Sucky Punch" Rand. Edit: and would explain an actual bond between them later on.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 4, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:
Most of the show makes sense to me if the secret theme of the show is "chi pollution." Chi pollution broke Harold long ago, Ward toward the beginning, Danny toward the middle, and Joy & Davos at the end. Loss of control/loss of true self afflict all of them. Colleen even loses herself briefly with the fight club, but her Bushido and higher calling with Bakuto allow her to recover faster than anybody. Claire is still a wasted mess. The show is still a wasted mess. Hollismason posted:No one writing for this show understand how anything works And I should add I know zero about chi-as-it-"exists", all this is based on show logic.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 9, 2017 14:39
|
|
|
Gyges posted:Far more time and effort was put into the episode titles than any other aspect of the show. And it ends in a kick rather than a punch. Shameful.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2017 20:28
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:But yeah, they could certainly have Danny gain more control and understanding of it and have him capable of hitting dudes just like he learned to heal Colleen. A Greatest American Hero version of Iron Fist is yet another show that might have been better than the one we got.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 11, 2017 23:16
|
|
|
RareAcumen posted:Yeah, he was getting choreography like 15 minutes before they shot a scene so I don't blame him for being bad at things. I mean, he's just an actor. He's not in charge of that stuff so I'm not gonna hold a grudge against Finn Jones for that. You can blame them for casting somebody who didn't already have some capacity for those things.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 12, 2017 13:43
|
|
|
docbeard posted:I'm torn between watching the rest of Iron Fist and just mentally editing in the MST3K episode "Pumaman" every time the character comes up in the Defenders miniseries. Even the Pumaman used his powers more than Iron Fist did.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 17, 2017 16:00
|
|
|
Jonny_Rocket posted:Iron Fist's biggest offense is violating the "show don't tell" rule in cinema. Danny frequently explains what happened to him when he was in K'un Lun, but we never see any of it. I laughed at the last scene when Danny and Colleen arrive at the gate, but find it closed and surrounded by bodies of the slain Hand assassins. It lacks any impact, because we never saw was K'un Lun was supposed to look like in the first place. But they paid for that snowy gate corridor, and by God, they were going to film it, and film it some more!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 19, 2017 19:55
|
|
|
STAC Goat posted:The trailer confirms the most important thing, that Jessica kind of hates Danny. Jessica Jones is the snarky audience insert.
|
|
#
¿
May 3, 2017 23:25
|
|
|
WillyTheNewGuy posted:Except that the guy who is show running The Inhumans is the same guy who did Iron Fist, so Im assuming they'll just have Black Bolt throwing tennis balls and shouting "Lightning bolt! Lightning bolt!" I'm assuming his hand will glow and nothing else happens.
|
|
#
¿
May 5, 2017 03:14
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 26, 2024 21:37 |
|
|
Defenders characters, ranked from highest to lowest in order of fighting ability: Blind lawyer Zombie ninja lady Self-taught MMA fighter Martial arts instructor Nurse Alcoholic private investigator Billionaire with 15 straight years of all-consuming training at a remote warrior monastery
|
|
#
¿
May 5, 2017 21:06
|
|