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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hell's Kitchen the most dangerous place in the world to buy free range organic mayonnaise.

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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


muscles like this? posted:

It'll be interesting to see how they do Iron Fist as his whole thing is pretty heavy on the mysticism, which the MCU hasn't really dabbled in yet.


Edit: Also hoping the Iron Fist show brings in the other Immortal Weapons.

Iron Fist might not be out til Doctor Strange in 2016(or 17?)

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


muscles like this? posted:

It was de-gentrified by the events of Avengers.

I mean sure facts, but still gotta get these jokes off.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


zoux posted:

I'd go with Matt over Jenn sorry.

I mean sure logically that might be the right play. But I've read Daredevil comics before. Matt almost always finds a way to lose his cases.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


End of series spoilers
]I actually like it in terms of story as an origin for Kingpin. He will learn where he hosed up and not do it again once he gets out.

Plus storywise it makes perfect sense, all season they were looking for just one witness who could survive long enough to speak about Fisk. Once they found someone with enough of that information his whole house of cards falls down.

He probably would have gotten away with it has he not done the whole sniper thing and just humored Ulrich. Instead of shooting his own dude. Setting into motion his entire downfall.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Fisk probably grew up Catholic, but didn't he pretty much say during his last speech, that he wasn't religious, but he did remember this one story.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hollismason posted:

I have long waited to see Iron Fist literally punch a Dragon to death. It better not be metaphorical. I want him to beat a dragon to death with his bare hands and then punch through it's chest.


Man, it doesn't even seem like Doctor Strange is gonna be out before Iron Fist. That sucks. Really wish they could have done a deep dive. But doubt they do it with Strange probably being what introduces magic

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hakkesshu posted:

Purple man can mind control people and he makes her his puppet, he doesn't get physical with her, but she's essentially mind raped.

He does though

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hakkesshu posted:

I read it like 3 weeks ago, he definitely doesn't. It almost goes out of its way to specify it without any doubt.

I read it 2 days ago. She says something to the effect of "He would make me watch him raping the random women he found around, but when no one was around to mind control, he would make me beg for it"

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


I'll have to go back and re read it. I don't remember that being written, but I was moving fairly quickly. So I could have missed It I guess.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


There's a free Jessica Drew prequel(Preview comic out.

https://www.comixology.co.uk/Marvel...C9pdGVtU2xpZGVy

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Barry Convex posted:

what does all this FF stuff have to do with the Netflix shows, exactly

Luke Cage was a member of the Fantastic Four. And he's a main character in the Jessica Jones series.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Holy poo poo, that looks greaaaaaaaaaat

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Deakul posted:

The production looks surprisingly cheap and Ritter looks bored as hell.

Shrug?

lol actor who's playing a character who is emotionally distant and hosed up looks emotionally distant and hosed up.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Based on what I've read and seen, they've basically abandoned the theme of the comic (the clash between normality and celebrity). It's really not doable with the direction they're going for, so it just makes it weird that they decided to adapt it in the first place.

Because like in comics themselves they found another theme or story they could tell with this character that would be cool so they are going to go with it.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

Personally, I just think Kilgrave, as a character, can't be done tastefully. His superpower is surprise sex. I didn't think he was right for the MCU at all, even the darker series, and I still don't think he is.

Why not?

Is surprise sex something that shouldn't be discussed? Or had the psychology of it dug into in media?

As long as it's not done in a hateful manner it should be. We shouldn't just not talk about or explore things that make people uncomfortable.


I dunno if this show does it well, but it hasn't been distasteful so far 3 episodes in.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hijo Del Helmsley posted:

Yeah, I just feel that a TV show about superheroes isn't the place to have a story about a serial rapist and sexual assault-induced PTSD.


On an unrelated note, I have no idea how they're going to tie Iron Fist into this sort of tone. It seems a bit too serious for a character who's essentially a pastiche of 70s kung fu movies.

This show hasn't been about super heroes though(so far anyway again 3 episodes in). Also maybe it's just because I'm used to comics or whatever.

But large tonal shifts don't mean much to me. Jessica in her own show is dealing with her own problems and history, ditto with Matt Murdock, Ditto with Luke Cage, and hopefully eventually Danny. Individual shows can and should have different tones or else it would become boring.

But It wouldn't be difficult to merge those 4 characters into one series which would have it's own tone. You don't think a sarcastic rear end Jessica Jones would fit in with a dude who dresses like a devil, a invincible man, and a kung fu master? She would have a field day.

This is something the Movies figured out with them trying to differentiate tone between them all more in Phase 2.

Dexo fucked around with this message at Nov 20, 2015 around 17:26

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Hollismason posted:

Here's a list of all abusive relationships in the show



Robyn and her Brother - Physical and Verbal abuse between family members. Sibling Abuse
Malcolm and Simpson - Drug Abuse
Hogarth and her wife - queer view of spousal abuse
Kilgrave and Jessica - Heternormative surprise sex and abuse
Patsy Walker and Her Mom - Child Abuse , Parent to Child
Simpson and Patsy - Spousal Abuse
Jessica - Alcohol Abuse


I don't think I've missed any. I think almost every type of abuse is covered in this show.



Hollismason posted:

She didn't have time to let him out so she cut the wire. She's absolutely not a good person and it's made evident through out the show. Like her motivation is to control people and her relationship with her wife is a mirror of what's going on with Kilgrave. It infuriates her that her wife won't sign the papers. That's her motivation. She doesn't have Kilgrave's backstory etc.. She is just a controlling and manipulative person




The entire show is about abuse ,but it's heternormative, this was a queer perspective on spousal abuse. Also by showing a feminine aspect of abuse you have all aspects of abuse in the show.

Without having the queer perspective you don't see abuse and it's effects from all sides, but also it makes it so the show isn't just about male vs female abuse. In fact Robyn is also a domestic abuser.

It also shows that you don't need Kilgrave's background to be a manipulative person. It also serves the purpose of showing that Kilgrave was just a flat out manipulative person to begin with just like she was.



Ending spoilers

Pam, Jeri's secretary and lover also executed her control and power over Jeri in order to push her to do whatever it would take to finalize this divorce.

Jeri wouldn't have freed Kilgrave if it wasn't for that scene where Pam was like I know you love me as she was moving Jeri's hand around(literally physically controlling her). using sex and Jeri's love of her as a leverage point to finally push Jeri over the edge. She gave Jeri an Ultimatum and talked about how the reason she fell in love with her was because of how she took whatever it it she wanted consequences be damned.

This ended up with Pam being arrested for Murder, and ruining that relationship.


This show is just really a tour de force in showing all forms of control, abuse, and manipulation and the consequences there of from drat near every character.

Dexo fucked around with this message at Nov 21, 2015 around 19:41

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Gyges posted:

We didn't need all of the scenes though. A great many of them are simply repeating the same character beats. I mean, sure the character needs to do something more than once to establish it as integral to the character instead of a happenstance of circumstance. I just think that 3 times is enough and we didn't need to constantly go back to it, reinforcing and reinforcing the idea. Especially since the last scene in the house is a whole shitload of stating what is going on.

Edit: It's entirely possible that the scenes are looming larger in my memory than is warranted due to streaming.


1X13
Killgrave and Simpson both attempt to do so but are stopped by Jessica and Patsy. Killgrave looks to save the woman and children being held hostage by shooting the offender with a big ol gun. Simpson tries several times to prove he's the alpha there to protect the weak women and is shown up by both Jessica and Patsy, which is part of what drives him to hate Jessica.

In contrast Luke never tries to save Jessica like a damsel in distress. While he is always up to help her out, she's the one taking the lead. Unless I'm forgetting a fight.


This show isn't trying to be subtle it is bludgeoning you in the head with everything it does.


1x13
Killgrave's punishment to Jeri, was Death by 1000 cuts, Jessica early on yells "You raped me, both mentally and literally"

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


End spoilers

The greatest part, was that Jeri's Manipulation was not because of Killgrave, but because she had run out of options and Pam had put her in an ultimatum either she gets the divorce papers signed or Pam walks away.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Drythe posted:

She also got her loving phone back after she knocked him out at her house, how did she not realize she sent a text that says "bitches, right?". God drat it. She knew Kilgrave knew there was a weakness he could exploit and she still leaves her alone with him.

Dude, who the gently caress checks their texting history if new message notification doesn't appear. I know I don't. Plus She probably has way more things to worry about. I don't pick up my phone and just go welp let me go check to see if anyone else used this to send a text recently. Unless someone texts me something that I have absolutely no context for later on.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


There was only once where someone should not have been knocked out by what they got knocked out with.

Ending Spoiler
And that was Jessica when the support group turned on her, like yeah it's rough when you get hit with something you 100% aren't expecting or anticipating but yeah no she took hits from Luke Cage that wouldn't knock her out for an entire night.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


bobkatt013 posted:

Lets not forget this is also the women who took the fetus for medical reasons, as she wanted to see if the power could be replicate.

Lack of Comprehension leads to proving points and it's fantastic.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Shageletic posted:

Still need to finish episode 12, because I need to take my time with this show otherwise it'd be just too much, but I can see a lot of the seams in the writing regarding the plot in the last couple of episodes. Like an artificial need to lengthen the proceedings, so throw in random plot obstacle to slow things down. On the other hand, its also resulted in more dense dialogue/confrontation scenes, which is this show's forte. The highlight for me regarding this was Ep 8,at Jessica's home. There was so much going on, so much text and sub-text regarding every loving word that I was completely entranced by it. It was more action packed, to me, than Daredevil destroying a dozen dudes. Which is also fun.

Oh, and I actually liked Nuke's plotling. There was a lot to disect there as well.

Nuke's entire plot is mocking everyone who says WHY DON'T THEY JUST KILL HIM and it's fantastic.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


LibbyM posted:

I don't want to read through the thread and find spoilers, but in a really vague sense can someone answer does this show wrap up it's story arc, or is everyone stuck waiting for a season 2?

Yes it wraps up the Killgrave story arc. There are hooks for Season 2 like what Daredevil did.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


You guys might wanna stop arguing with the guy who is levying a complaint as silly as "but no really guys they could have ran hard drive recovery tools to get the deleted files back." about a TV show.

And this is speaking as someone who used to do data recovery and stuff for outright broken and damaged drives, not just deleted files.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


End Spoilers

There are literally only two characters in the series that knew about it though. Jeri herself, and the doctor in the jail that gave it to her.

No one else knew she kept the aborted fetus to see about mimicking his powers.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


zoux posted:

Well, Kilgrave and his dad knew. They were using the stem cells from the fetus to enhance his powers.

Not until she told him. I meant before Jeri cut the wire.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Remember at most of those points Jessica didn't know that she couldn't be controlled. She just thought he was holding back on controlling her.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


The Sharmat posted:

No one knew who any Antman was before the movie and I refuse to believe otherwise.

Lol as if Hank Pym's being a wife beater wasn't in established comic fan lore

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


BrianWilly posted:

Y'all weirdos are aware that the plea deal Hope got offered, the one that got her "only" twenty years in prison if she confessed to murdering her own parents, was a last minute cheap ploy by the DA, right? Before that point, Hope was going to spend her entire life in jail if Jessica couldn't prove Kilgrave's existence. But oh yea sure, Jessica should just kill him. Good plan.

And by the time Hope got offered the deal, Jessica already had Kilgrave captured and had worked out a perfectly sensible plan to expose him. It would have worked if Hogarth wasn't stupid. And even then, it still would have worked if your glorious idol Nuke hadn't destroyed the evidence for literally no reason.

He had a reason. That reason being him wanting and having to be right no matter what and knowing what's best even though it was already under control.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Daredevil S2 AFAIK is not part of the 60 episodes initially ordered. It was added after the fact.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


To be fair having to consciously and constantly focus on wording things in a way where they can't be considered a command would be draining as all hell.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


VocalizePlayerDeath posted:

So much trouble could have been avoided if Jessica didn't refuse to use her laser eyes for absolutely no reason.

She's more like the real Superman than the lovely one from MoS IMO

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


BravestOfTheLamps posted:

The real Superman almost drunkenly murders people by throwing them under subway trains.




Let he who has not done something dumb and dangerous while heavily intoxicated throw the first stone.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


This show is not subtle at all. And it's fantastic for it.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


It wasn't until (all) Hope faded away that killing Killgrave became an option.

Or yeah what Zoux edited in.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


Eh, Jessica made almost all the right decisions when it came to Killgrave.

She had him 3 or 4 times. And he only ever escaped because of outside interference.

She(or Trish) didn't need Simpson's help.

Simpson was only "right" in the sense that yes killing Kilgrave would probably be the eventual outcome you will have to do with someone of his powerset. But You didn't need to kill him right then and there as both Jessica and Trish were more than capable of coming up with plans to catch him.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


HIJK posted:

That's not even remotely what I'm saying which you would know if you read all my posts. What I am saying is this:


I am literally saying that this show managed to completely undermine its own thesis through terrible character writing.

I think Jessica was right to put down Kilgrave. I was also proud of her for trying to bring Kilgrave to justice because she tackled an enormous task, one that was ultimately impossible.

But I also think that Simpson was a badly written character that got in the way of the show's themes and ultimately rendered the show toothless.

Or you can try and pretend that I hate Jessica for amorphous reasons that I never stated, because lumping me in with other posters' sentiments is easier than listening to what I'm saying.

I'm female so it's completely normal for people to ignore what I say. I'm pretty used to it. (Did you see what I did there?)

Why was he poorly written? I'm curious. Everyone who's said he was poorly written has almost always only brought up he was right all along defense. What didn't you like about his character?

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Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

GarPax: "You Want it to be one way....but it's the other way."


HIJK posted:

I thought they derailed his character for no good reason. Simpson was a jump the gun kind of guy but basically they refused to give him any real arc, he didn't learn anything or even go into a downward spiral ala Loki, he just stayed where he was, aka a useless douche.

The magic steroids subplot is where this is really born out. Like, when Simpson chose to stay and comfort Trish, I viewed it as good character development -- sure he was an overbearing jerk but he also got his rear end handed to him and I figured that by bonding with Trish he was having really cool character development where he learned to cool his heels a bit and let the Kilgrave expert, Jessica, take the lead.

Instead he got on magic steroids for no reason? That really confused me because it came out of no where and it seemed to me that the writers had run out of ideas for his character and instead of killing him they decided to turn him into a total idiot that used steroids to oppress women...for no reason, and after all that character development he had with Trish.

Then I found out he's Nuke from the comics and realized he was shoehorned in as part of a checklist probably handed over by that comic book committee. "Thou must namecheck these many comic book characters per series!"

It just struck as a really dumb way to handle what could have been an interesting character. Instead we get steroidzzzzzzzz

When it comes to "Simpson was right" I'm just pointing out that if the writers wanted to set him up as an antagonist they went about it the wrong way since Jess ultimately killed the purple man at the end. I don't really care to assign much moral value beyond "ew, bad writing."

The thing is even when he was with Trish, he never actually allowed Trish and Jessica to run their independent plans without him having to interfere or mention how he could solve this problem for them. Even when he let them do it he did nothing but mention how his plan was totally right and they totally need to listen to him. he spent most of his time with Trish telling her that Jessica was wrong and they should be killing him.

Trish did most of the work in finding information on the whereabouts Dude then went Rouge and hosed up when he tried to take things into his own hands causing the events that ended up getting his rear end blown up. After getting blown up the Drugs took his personality all the way to 100 and he stopped being the "nice guy"

Dexo fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2015 around 21:53

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