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Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


Danke.

a shameful snipe.

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Hegel Exercises
Apr 25, 2019

Too fair to worship, too divine to love...



Hardest part of playing DD is realizing gently caress caps, your team sucks and won't support you bail at the first sign of trouble

Complications
Jun 19, 2014



Hegel Exercises posted:

Hardest part of playing is realizing your team sucks and won't support you bail at the first sign of trouble

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.



Nap Ghost

Just had one of the weirdest games in a long while. Regular Hotspot comes up, tier 7-9, I'm in my Jean Bart. I spawn in the middle, behind our cap. 4 ships to my east, rest of the west. Every ship but a Kiev on the east immediately heads west, he tools around in the open and constantly gets spotted. I'm trying to get cover behind islands, but I know that it won't matter, since there is no cover from their DD's. Cap alarm starts, all their DD's had rushed south, ours were somewhere to the west. Their DD's start laying smoke, our CV charges into the cap for reasons. Everyone gets murdered by crossfire. Match ends, we killed 3 ships, they killed all but one, a Dmitri that started on the east, and made it all the way around the west island and was heading north.
Just bizarre, never seen so many people just go pants on head.

Missing Name
Jan 5, 2013

Here you go. Juicy Fruit. Happy?


Did something (?) on NA as of a minute ago:

BACKPFEIFENGESICHT

RNFLEETAIRARM

Need to log on to see what the gently caress I unlocked, brb

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Pause post!


Sometimes you can't help but laugh.

I'm doing the European Destroyers campaign, and started the mission where you have to be the top XP earner, get 260 main battery hits and survive (T9 and T10 only).

I played a game in my Smolensk, got three kills, ~180k damage and some 280 main battery hits so I was well on my way to completing the mission. We were handily winning, and with literally five seconds left on the clock I blew up. Apparently a Thunderer across the map had figured "match is ending, let's just shoot the guns for fun" and one of his shells hit me, citadeled me and blew me up.

I asked the guy after the game if he'd guessed where I was and he flat out said he had no idea anyone was there, he just fired his guns for the hell of it and got lucky.

I wasn't even angry, but I'm now convinced the gods have it out for me.

kaesarsosei
Nov 7, 2012


I reinstalled the game and wow there is a lot of new stuff.

What is this business with Resetting progress/research bureau?
Is there somewhere I can read/watch to catch-up on ship equipment & captains?
I found a shiptbuilding directives thing with 2 ships reward, but it expires in 2 days - can I still complete this in time?
What happened to my Moskva! It's in my port but not on the tech tree? Is the Nevsky a like-for-like replacement?
What are CVs like now, and why have half of them disappeared? Are they balanced now, fun to play, which nation is the best, is AA still oppressive at high tiers?

The following lines are new since I last played - are any of these really good or really bad?
Japan Second DD Line (Harugumo)
USSR BBs (Kremlin)
USSR Second Cruiser line (Petropavlovsk)
USA Second Cruiser line (Worcester)
UK Second Cruiser line (Goliath)
UK DD Line (Daring)
UK CVs
French BBs and DDs
Pan Asian DDs
Italian Cruisers
Europe(?) DDs

Brendan Rodgers
Jun 11, 2014






Can you still only play with 2 friends in this?

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Pause post!


kaesarsosei posted:

What is this business with Resetting progress/research bureau?

Basically once you get 5 tier 10s, you unlock the Research Bureau. Once you've unlocked it, you can reset your T10 ships back to T1 one ship at a time, getting back some credits etc. Then as you play back up to T10 (or free XP to T10) you get 10 000 research points, which you can then use to buy unique upgrades (~20 0000 RP each) or ships (45 - 65 000 each).

They've also got "seasons" where the first reset you do gets you 20 000 RP instead.

quote:

I found a shiptbuilding directives thing with 2 ships reward, but it expires in 2 days - can I still complete this in time?

No, probably not even if you poopsock 24/7. The shipyard is a 2 month event thing where you complete the missions, and at the end you get to buy a T8 premium ship for 3000 gold. The good news is a new shipyard is coming in a month or so, this time for the USS Anchorage.

quote:

What happened to my Moskva! It's in my port but not on the tech tree? Is the Nevsky a like-for-like replacement?

They took out the Moskva from the tech tree, because until T10 all the soviet cruisers were light cruisers and then suddenly you had the Moskva as a heavy cruiser. Instead they started a new heavy cruiser branch at T8 which culminates in the Petropavlovsk. The Aleksander Nevsky is the new T10 light cruiser. The Nevsky has fairly modest armour (although she does have an icebreaker nose) so you can't tank that much in it, but it's the same kind of long range railgun sniper as the Moskva was, with the addition of torpedoes and stealth radar.

As you figured out, anyone who had the Moskva unlocked got it as a premium ship for free.

quote:

What are CVs like now, and why have half of them disappeared? Are they balanced now, fun to play, which nation is the best, is AA still oppressive at high tiers?

They are now arcade. You launch a squadron and then control it with WASD and mouse like you would a boat. Their alpha strike capability is much lower than before, but because you can make repeated strikes with the same squadron, they have more sustained DPS. Let's just say the topic of CV balance is fraught with tension and leave it at that

As part of the rework they took out the odd numbered tiers of CVs for reasons that are unclear to humanity, and also added in British CVs. Which are pretty much the worst of the bunch. They rely very heavily on starting fires and floods, and when you rely on RNG you can have some real bad times. This will change soon because German CVs are coming out in the next patch and they are hot rear end.

As for which of the two remaining ones is the best... well, in skilled hands the Japanese CVs are probably more capable (they have AP bombs which can citadel ships and insane torpedoes), but the US CVs have more durable planes, Tiny Tim rockets, extremely powerful HE bombs etc.

quote:

Japan Second DD Line (Harugumo)
USSR BBs (Kremlin)
USSR Second Cruiser line (Petropavlovsk)
USA Second Cruiser line (Worcester)
UK Second Cruiser line (Goliath)
UK DD Line (Daring)
UK CVs
French BBs and DDs
Pan Asian DDs
Italian Cruisers
Europe(?) DDs

Extremely good:
Soviet BBs
Soviet Cruisers
UK DDs
French DDs*
European (Swedish) Destroyers*

Good:
US Cruiser
French BBs
Italian Cruisers

Bad:
UK Heavy Cruisers
UK Carriers
Pan-Asian DDs

* neither of these DD lines have smokes and instead rely on speed and player skill to avoid getting deleted. The Swedish DDs at high tier have by far the best AA of any destroyers, whereas the French DDs do not.

E:

Here are all the Naval Legends bonus codes. I have no idea what you get for them:

Naval Legends Cinemarathon: USS Midway: TOOBIGFORPANAMA
Naval Legends Cinemarathon: US Naval Aviation: CURTISSLEGACY
Naval Legends Cinemarathon: Cod: GENUSGADUS
Naval Legends Cinemarathon: Royal Navy Aviation: RNFLEETAIRARM
Naval Legends: Georgios Averof: HELLENICNAVY

Der Shovel fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Aug 1, 2020

James Garfield
May 5, 2012

Paleontologists must have looked into it before. Maybe they had, but never ran with it. Or maybe the thought simply never occurred to them. Maybe the stand hunting from a tree strategy had never been applied to T. rex.


kaesarsosei posted:

What is this business with Resetting progress/research bureau?
You can regrind a ship line where you unlocked tier 10 for research points, which you can use to buy ships or legendary modules for tier 10 ships (replaces one of the normal upgrade slots; many of them are useless but some are overpowered).

kaesarsosei posted:

Is there somewhere I can read/watch to catch-up on ship equipment & captains?
Flamu or ichase have videos about it on youtube. Not much has changed in the past two years except that all the things that buff your AA are useless.

kaesarsosei posted:

I found a shiptbuilding directives thing with 2 ships reward, but it expires in 2 days - can I still complete this in time?
Probably not, but you can complete the first missions for some rewards.

kaesarsosei posted:

What happened to my Moskva! It's in my port but not on the tech tree? Is the Nevsky a like-for-like replacement?

It's a premium ship, Nevsky replaced it but you have to research and buy it separately.

kaesarsosei posted:

What are CVs like now, and why have half of them disappeared? Are they balanced now, fun to play, which nation is the best, is AA still oppressive at high tiers?

Wargaming did a CV rework that was supposed to fix the problems people had with the old CVs, but managed to fix none of them and make a few things worse. Half of them disappeared because the new CV gameplay has very little content and they couldn't have differentiated seven tiers of CV. They are not balanced and not very fun. Playing CV in coop is basically indistinguishable from playing it in random games. US is best followed by Japan. AA doesn't work, and if you play CV you pretty much have to try to run out of planes.

kaesarsosei posted:

The following lines are new since I last played - are any of these really good or really bad?

Most of them are good if it fits how you want to play the game. British CV and Pan Asian DD are bad and there is no reason to play them. The alternate British cruiser line is pretty boring. French destroyers are either fun if there is no CV or unplayable if a CV targets you.

Stanley Pain
Jun 16, 2001

Bit. Trip. RIP.


James Garfield posted:

Most of them are good if it fits how you want to play the game. British CV and Pan Asian DD are bad and there is no reason to play them. The alternate British cruiser line is pretty boring. French destroyers are either fun if there is no CV or unplayable if a CV targets you.

On a side note from opposite land, I absolutely hate the Des Moines and am terrible in it (38% WR/100 battles) vs. my 60% WR Goliath @ 150 battles. I'm one of those weirdos who really likes the British heavy cruisers.

kaesarsosei
Nov 7, 2012


The CV rework sounds like a failure then. Is there any chance they change it again, or even revert it?

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Pause post!


Probably not, they spent months or work and tons of money on the rework and seem to be OK with how things are.

toadee
Aug 16, 2003

North American Turtle Boy Love Association



Der Shovel posted:

The Aleksander Nevsky is the new T10 light cruiser. The Nevsky has fairly modest armour (although she does have an icebreaker nose) so you can't tank that much in it

Nevksy game:



It's basically unkillable by AP if you don't mess up

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

I will say that IN THEORY a lot of the CV rework seems like a great idea.

Planes have to make multiple passes to complete a full attack, so AA is less of a binary 'they get through/they don't get through' and more of an analog way to reduce the number of passes a carrier can make.

Similarly, the lower alpha damage of carrier strikes means that you'll take more consistent damage from carriers but there's less instant annihilation from hammer/anvil drops.

The complete elimination of fighters as anything but a local calldown means you'll never see one carrier totally shutting the other out of the game any more.

Uhhh rocket planes are...they exist...?

It's easy to see why they went this direction in the rework. If anything, carriers are less powerful now than before. Unfortunately, they're probably more obnoxious (and more outright awful for DDs.) And I don't understand at all why they removed fires and flooding from carriers, ships famously prone to fires and flooding.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

The CV rework successfully addressed the following problems:
1) the RTS interface sucked horribly
2) CV's were basically a completely different game compared to all the other ship classes
3) almost nobody played CV's

So it made CV's a lot more accessible and as a consequence a lot more people play them now. That could count as a success by some metrics. Unfortunately the rework did absolutely nothing to address the problems CV's cause for everyone else who isn't in a CV, and made some of them even worse (for example, previously at least a CV could counterplay a CV; now there's no counterplay at all for anyone). And as mentioned, now you see CV's a lot more than you do before. T4 in particular is essentially unplayable in certain ship lines now because there's double CV in every match and the maps are the size of postage stamps so they will fly over you and they will single you out.

Rorac
Aug 19, 2011



A question. How much would change if aircraft-spotting worked like radar? That is, if spotted by plane you would appear on the map, but only after 5 seconds of being spotted constantly would you actually get rendered by other players?

CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.



Nap Ghost

I think if they changed plane spotting to where thing only showed on the minimap it would fix a lot issues with them. Right now, CVs are incredible at spotting things, and there isn’t much you can do about it, since long range AA is going to be flak, and a decent player can dodge that. Then they can keep planes near a DD, or drop fighters and force the dd to either pop smoke or leave.
While I’d it was minimap spotting, then you’d know a ship is there, but they wouldn’t be a xp piñata. Or maybe they could make a spotting plane call in where you get vision in an area. Usually it feels like the spotting a CV does is worth far more then the damage.

James Garfield
May 5, 2012

Paleontologists must have looked into it before. Maybe they had, but never ran with it. Or maybe the thought simply never occurred to them. Maybe the stand hunting from a tree strategy had never been applied to T. rex.


kaesarsosei posted:

The CV rework sounds like a failure then. Is there any chance they change it again, or even revert it?

Unlikely. There is a small chance that they improve some of the worst aspects, but they have been posting changes to address CV spotting on their dev blog for over a year now without doing anything.

General Battuta posted:

I will say that IN THEORY a lot of the CV rework seems like a great idea.

Planes have to make multiple passes to complete a full attack, so AA is less of a binary 'they get through/they don't get through' and more of an analog way to reduce the number of passes a carrier can make.

Similarly, the lower alpha damage of carrier strikes means that you'll take more consistent damage from carriers but there's less instant annihilation from hammer/anvil drops.

The complete elimination of fighters as anything but a local calldown means you'll never see one carrier totally shutting the other out of the game any more.

Uhhh rocket planes are...they exist...?

It's easy to see why they went this direction in the rework. If anything, carriers are less powerful now than before. Unfortunately, they're probably more obnoxious (and more outright awful for DDs.) And I don't understand at all why they removed fires and flooding from carriers, ships famously prone to fires and flooding.

Unfortunately even where the CV rework seems like it fixed something, it often doesn't hold up.

Any changes to AA are kind of irrelevant since AA was basically removed from the game in patch 8.7. How survivable a ship is against CVs has much more to do with hp/armor/torpedo protection to tank the CV damage or smoke to stop planes from spotting it, and how much a ship sucks to play in CV matches is pretty much entirely dependent on its ideal engagement range. Henri has garbage AA and Worcester has the highest cruiser AA in the game, but Henri is more playable in CV matches since it can sit in the back.
At least with the old version, AA spec did something and even ships with low base values benefited significantly from defensive fire.

The alpha damage reduction is a bit of a red herring. Rework CVs don't get devastating strike medals, but doing 50% of a ship's hp in one squad isn't that unusual. It just doesn't give a medal because the medal requires doing all the damage in 5 seconds and there are more than 5 seconds between attacks. The damage potential from a rework CV squadron is equal to a bit higher than the damage potential from one old CV squadron (ignoring that if an old CV attacked a ship with one squadron it would lose most of the planes before the drop) and while the old CVs had more squadrons, rework CVs have higher damage output because the cycle rate is so much faster.

Fighters are removed, but instead of fighters the bad CVs just get shut down by flak instead, and flak is automatic so it's much more consistent at shutting them down. In the old system, if both CVs were WARBEASTY neither of them would do much with their fighters, and they'd both get some damage off of autodrops on bad battleships. Now there are CV players that average 6000 damage at tier 10 because instead of player controlled fighters, the thing that stops them from doing damage is automatic flak and forced manual aiming. Good CVs have slightly lower win rates, but still win more than equally good players in anything else.


It's hard to even say the rework CVs are less powerful. Outside of the changes to CVs themselves, there have been a few game mechanic changes that would have significantly affected either version of CV (flooding nerf, major air concealment buff for all ships, AP bomb damage nerf if you want to count that). It isn't obvious how much nerfed flooding and reduced plane spotting would have affected the old CVs, but rework CVs prior to the flooding nerf were much more powerful than CVs before the rework.

Hegel Exercises
Apr 25, 2019

Too fair to worship, too divine to love...



Sharing this because this might be the dirtiest I've felt playing this game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xYnxHysl6g

Blindeye
Sep 22, 2006

I can't believe I kissed you!


I have tried that build in my Gremy captain on the Krasny Krym but only on Co-Op as a test.

It's dirty.

Hegel Exercises
Apr 25, 2019

Too fair to worship, too divine to love...



Blindeye posted:

I have tried that build in my Gremy captain on the Krasny Krym but only on Co-Op as a test.

It's dirty.

It's filthy

Sair
May 11, 2007



The European destroyers are really fun right up until a carrier decides to ruin you.

Aside from that, they are the best destroyer line.

kaesarsosei
Nov 7, 2012


Can anyone give me a rundown of any ships <T10 that are worth keeping? From the last time I played, I see I kept the Fletcher, Roon, Martel, Nagato, Fiji, Pensacola(?!), Furutaka and Konigsberg. Are these still decent for their tiers?

Cobbsprite
May 6, 2012

Threatening stuffed animals for fun and profit.

kaesarsosei posted:

Can anyone give me a rundown of any ships <T10 that are worth keeping? From the last time I played, I see I kept the Fletcher, Roon, Martel, Nagato, Fiji, Pensacola(?!), Furutaka and Konigsberg. Are these still decent for their tiers?

Always keep all ships so you can get the collector achieves.

TheFluff
Dec 13, 2006

FRIENDS, LISTEN TO ME
I AM A SEAGULL
OF WEALTH AND TASTE


Slippery Tilde

kaesarsosei posted:

Can anyone give me a rundown of any ships <T10 that are worth keeping? From the last time I played, I see I kept the Fletcher, Roon, Martel, Nagato, Fiji, Pensacola(?!), Furutaka and Konigsberg. Are these still decent for their tiers?

All of these are still good, although in some cases not best in class for their tier. Off the top of my head I can add Kitakaze, North Carolina, Sinop, Chapayev, Cleveland, Helena, Pyotr Velikiy and Lightning. Although, in my book, nothing below T9 is really worth keeping and playing for its own sake.

Pensacola got inexplicably buffed a while ago, it's stronger than ever. Like, it's straight up overpowered now.

TheFluff fucked around with this message at 09:46 on Aug 2, 2020

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

Cobbsprite posted:

Always keep all ships so you can get the collector achieves.

Plus the events for coal/steel from each ships first win events!

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Pause post!


toadee posted:

Nevksy game:



It's basically unkillable by AP if you don't mess up

Tell me more. TBH the bigger problem for me is the constant HE spam in T10 matches. Even if it doesn't do a lot of damage, the constant fires add up.

toadee
Aug 16, 2003

North American Turtle Boy Love Association



Der Shovel posted:

Tell me more. TBH the bigger problem for me is the constant HE spam in T10 matches. Even if it doesn't do a lot of damage, the constant fires add up.

Every Nevsky game pretty much:

Approach cap, turn out so that your detection is just within the cap circle. If the cap flips and you’re spotted, wait a few seconds and radar the dd. After that stay bow out and angled against whatever is on the flank. You want to be angled and not directly stern in. If they are pushing here, great, just play with your throttle while angled at about 15-17km while burning them to death. If they are not pushing here, just immediately stop shooting and leave to the other side, or a place where they will push into. Occasionally this leads to disappointing games where you win but nobody every pushed, but it also is how you get 200k games just burning down bbs that constantly bounce shells off your 140mm belt, or fail to pen through your spaced armor. The icebreaker is a trap, if you are close enough to use it you are probably hosed, unless things have really thinned out. Don’t forget to use AP on anything that randomly shows broadside, EL can help with that.

toadee fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Aug 2, 2020

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

Last night I spent several minutes driving my Alaska directly at an edge-hugging Kronshtadt with my turrets pre-aimed ninety degrees to starboard. The moment I splatted into the barrier alongside him I dev striked him. This was not particularly impressive or anything but the sheer emotional catharsis I experienced rivaled any form of therapy I have ever attempted.

General Battuta
Feb 7, 2011

This is how you communicate with a fellow intelligence: you hurt it, you keep on hurting it, until you can distinguish the posts from the screams.

We then lost because all our surviving battleships had followed me down to the map edge and the enemy took all the caps without resistance

Burt
Sep 23, 2007

Poke.



Cobbsprite posted:

Always keep all ships so you can get the collector achieves.

I'm not sure if you just have to get or unlock the ship for it to count or have them in your dock, but I have got the achievements and then sold ships and you keep it afterwards.

Hegel Exercises
Apr 25, 2019

Too fair to worship, too divine to love...



Burt posted:

I'm not sure if you just have to get or unlock the ship for it to count or have them in your dock, but I have got the achievements and then sold ships and you keep it afterwards.

You have to keep them IIRC

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

Pause post!


Considering how important radar is, it'd be nice if the matchmaker didn't give four to one team, and zero to the other.

James Garfield
May 5, 2012

Paleontologists must have looked into it before. Maybe they had, but never ran with it. Or maybe the thought simply never occurred to them. Maybe the stand hunting from a tree strategy had never been applied to T. rex.



To add, you play the Nevsky as if the icebreaker doesn't exist. It provides some protection against close range bow citadels, but it isn't immune to bow citadels and battleships that know what they're doing can shoot the top half of the bow or the 25mm upper belt.

The thing about Nevsky armor is that like every tech tree cruiser since the Worcester, Wargaming gave it two layers of belt armor that are both too thick to be overmatched (except part of the Goliath citadel is 25 mm, which combined with the shape is why it takes so many citadels from 30 mm overmatch BBs). The Nevsky citadel is 140+40 mm for the same amount of armor as the single layer 180 mm Stalingrad citadel, but if it's angled between 45 and 60 degrees there are two chances to autobounce when you shoot at the Nevsky versus one for the Stalingrad. The autobounce checks eat a lot of shells that might have citadeled a ship with a single layer of armor.

serious gaylord
Sep 16, 2007

what.


2 games, 2 dev strike deletions of cruisers.

Darkrenown
Jul 18, 2012

The level of betrayal I felt when Paradox announced their new DLC tore something from me that I'll never be able to recover. They tore away my ability to respect anything, and they tore away my ability to feel human.

525 German tokens, but I need 600 for a Camo and my only choice to get more is to buy missions for 7500 doubloons to get another 600

Has it been mentioned what rate these get converted to credits when the event is over? Sometimes with these things it's better to let them expire than to buy credit rewards.

Darkrenown fucked around with this message at 22:54 on Aug 2, 2020

Shivers
Oct 31, 2011


Darkrenown posted:

525 German tokens, but I need 600 for a Camo and my only choice to get more is to buy missions for 7500 doubloons to get another 600

Has it been mentioned what rate these get converted to credits when the event is over? Sometimes with these things it's better to let them expire than to buy credit rewards.

Conversion rate is probably 1 token for 9000 credits, since there's an item in the Armory that gets you 180,000 credits for 20 German tokens. I think you'd be better off getting 175 Zulu flags for that amount if it's credits that you're interested in.

Hegel Exercises
Apr 25, 2019

Too fair to worship, too divine to love...



Had an absolutely monster game in the Skane. I think I'm starting to click with the Euro DDs.

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CitizenKain
May 27, 2001

That was Gary Cooper, asshole.



Nap Ghost

Hegel Exercises posted:

Had an absolutely monster game in the Skane. I think I'm starting to click with the Euro DDs.

The Skane has started to click for me, and I really like it. The only downside to them is when people figure out which DD is shooting torps at them and they realize that can eat one or two of them and continue pushing. But then people often forget how fast they reload and suddenly they get hit by 3 more of them, and those hits add up.

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