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YellerBill posted:As far as I'm aware Gaijin can't make subs work either, so it's going to be a pretty straight contest between Gaijin's damage modeling system versus Wargaming's HP system. And also maybe how the different developers handle upgrades, considering that in WT upgrades are relatively minor improvements whereas in WoT/WoWP you can get things like a completely different engine or a new turret for your tank. BadLlama posted:Does ships have the same spotting system as in tanks so a giant battleship will just disappear? Destroyers have to get fairly close to be spotted, if they don't fire. In the previous patch, you could invisiboat people with destroyer guns if you were careful about staying at maximum range. I haven't tried this patch because Japanese destroyer guns are now too bad to bother firing. Firing torpedoes doesn't reveal you.
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Mar 11, 2015 18:09
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AA rewards are very, very low. I'm not sure there's a reward at all. edit: One of the daily missions rewards you for killing planes though.
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Mar 11, 2015 20:19
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quote:torpedoes I have to mention that if you get hit by torpedoes from a destroyer that isn't close enough to get spotted it's your own fault. Surface ship torpedoes get spotted from very far out. I don't know how much this thread has played in the latest alpha patch but the one destroyer that has hit me with torpedoes was two kilometers away. Hitting someone with destroyer torpedoes similarly depends on finding a target too dumb to steer their ship. Also half the alpha testers end every sentence with "poi" for some loving reason. An option to block those testers would be nice because they talk way too much.
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Mar 11, 2015 21:40
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Vengarr posted:The Long Lance could travel 40km max. And it didn't leave behind a wake, so they were hard to see coming. All torpedoes have a wake. There are torpedo indicators that pop up when the torpedoes are close enough, "close enough" in this case meaning "still pretty far away". You can't see the wake until the torpedo indicator shows up. I don't think the oxygen torpedoes are any harder to spot than other torpedoes.
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Mar 11, 2015 22:28
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Polikarpov posted:The references I can find to "Iwaki" all point to the B-64 design. Iwaki is some kind of intermediate between the Tenryu and Kuma classes. It apparently has an extra gun over Tenryu. I imagine wargaming made up the name.
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Mar 12, 2015 02:24
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I torpedoed some nerd in spawn for whining that battleships were underpowered and said something along the lines of "well now your battleship is extra underpowered" and he threatened to report me, but I haven't had any sort of warning. You're probably safe.
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Mar 12, 2015 05:52
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NTRabbit posted:Attaching a name to a ship that only ever had a barcode on some blueprints should be relatively straightforward though, given that the naming conventions for all classes in all the naval nations is well known You'd think that, but of the historically unnamed Japanese ships (a battleship, a heavy cruiser and a light cruiser) all are named after mountains like heavy cruisers. They also misnamed the Tenryu class for some reason. 
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Mar 12, 2015 07:15
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xthetenth posted:The French are actually one of the best candidates for a nearly full tree of real ships or ships that were seriously intended to be built. I don't know about mid tiers but it seems like French destroyers should have a full tree of actually built and commissioned ships.
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Mar 12, 2015 18:05
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This game is a great deal worse than alpha when every match has 4-6 battleships per team. I hope Wargaming tries to actually balance the ship classes because in this state it's not even close  On the other hand if it releases with battleships this much stronger than anything else I won't be tempted to waste time playing it, so there's that.
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Mar 12, 2015 19:13
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rex rabidorum vires posted:Lol can't spot a DD in smoke from literally 1.5 KM away. Yea can see that getting old fast. If you're farther than 5 km or so the destroyer is hilariously non threatening and you're equally likely to hit it by random firing into the smoke or by spotting it for half a second and aiming there.
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Mar 13, 2015 00:33
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Stevefin posted:If your ship has torps, This would be a great time to blind fire a wide spread, you know roughly where the DD is, and it won't see the torps till its too late in the smoke I'm not sure if smoke hides torpedoes.
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Mar 13, 2015 01:44
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I really hope the Alaska class are cruisers and not battleships because that would be amazing. 
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Mar 13, 2015 02:59
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Gamesguy posted:Which slot 2 upgrade do you guys think is best for the Amagi(tier 8 BB)? 20% more range on AA guns, 10% faster reload/15% aiming on main guns, or more accuracy on main guns? The reload one makes your guns turn slower, Wargaming didn't write the descriptions well. Tier 5s and 6s fart out credits in a way that puts Type 59s to shame so it's easy to experiment.
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Mar 13, 2015 19:24
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More durable fighters are especially useful since you have relatively limited aircraft space. The upgraded fighters will win in a head on fight anyway. Against bombers your fighters will win no matter their damage output, and against AA or multiple fighters the upgraded fighters will take fewer losses. Also, wargaming_game.jpg 
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Mar 14, 2015 07:30
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sauer kraut posted:Is there a cruiser or destroyer that ditches all its ineffective popguns for lots of flak and torps instead? Cardiac posted:I am only at tier3 with the St Louis, but is there any point in not running full throttle all the time? You can slow down to get an extra shot off before moving behind an island, I guess?
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Mar 14, 2015 16:57
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Fart Car '97 posted:Works for me Once you unlock upgrades there's one that improves accuracy. It makes a noticeable difference. If you have a Kongo the credit costs for upgrades are basically irrelevant, so do that.
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Mar 15, 2015 00:00
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Rorac posted:So, question. How the gently caress do you actually properly aim at things over 10 seconds away? It seems for me that once it takes longer than that for a shell to arrive, whether or not I hit depends more on luck and how the stars are aligned rather than any actual skill on my part. Is there any big secret I'm missing or is that just something I'll pick up with practice and play-experience? Hit alt to get the travel time, then lead based on that. As a rule of thumb I do about 1.5 of the small tick marks per second of travel time, for battleships going at right angles. Fire off one turret and watch that if you aren't sure. You get a feel for it faster than you'd think. Citadel hits at 20 km are basically luck due to shell dispersion and the players who say otherwise are overstating how good they are, but you can hit fairly consistently at that range if you shoot at battleships.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:12
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Prav posted:I can't for the life of me figure out what the actual acc differences are between the various guns because it's so helpfully listed as dispersion at max range. Thanks WG. I think that would be close enough. Depending on how they calculate it it might not be perfect since the flight distance isn't linear, but I don't think shell arc is different enough between ships for that to matter much. Fake edit: I just checked the Kongo and dispersion per range changes by 2% when you upgrade the fire control. I don't know if fire control secretly makes your guns more accurate but that's pretty small regardless.
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Mar 15, 2015 01:37
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NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:The only upgrades I bother with are the ones that prevent my magazine from exploding 1/5th of the time. The other ones, I don't really care about because I'm a filthy casual. If you're in a ship with guns and you're going to get pounded, you might as well make yourself more durable. Get a Kongo and the credit cost for the upgrades won't matter any more.  Also the Langley is really bad, in most better carriers you can bait higher tier planes onto friendly AA.
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Mar 15, 2015 04:24
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Destroyers are pretty bad in the game's current state. The problem is that torpedoes are visible from 40% of their maximum range, so a battleship that pays attention has time to avoid them unless they were launched at really short range. Hitting a competent battleship with torpedoes at over about 5 km is next to impossible. The change also makes long lances kind of poo poo at closer ranges, since they show up immediately when launched. In alpha and beta weekends hitting a competent battleship with torpedoes was a bit of a trick, but it was entirely possible to get hits without coming in spotting range. The destroyer lines were distinct between nations, but both nations had usable guns, usable torpedoes and enough camouflage to not explode immediately. To look at it another way, a battleship is substantially better at killing battleships than a destroyer is. The damage model changes also turbo hosed cruisers. Battleships are essentially a hard counter to cruisers now. In the old version you could sink a Fuso with a Cleveland given good shooting and some time, in this version I shot a Fuso with my Cleveland for four minutes and didn't even take off half its health (despite hitting consistently) before it turned its guns around and oneshotted me.
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Mar 15, 2015 15:10
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DonkeyHotay posted:I really can't think dd's are that underpowered against battleships seeing as I just saw a tier 5 destroyer drive into a group of 2 Kongos and a Nagato in open water, torp the Nagato, drive back into his smoke, finish off the Nagato and leave. Pubbies are dumb stupid loving idiots and torpedoes are fine against dumb stupid loving idiots. Non idiots are almost impossible to hit without closing to secondary gun range. This isn't NTRabbit being NTRabbit, destroyers are much weaker than the beta weekend or alpha destroyers, which weren't overpowered. Battleships are the strongest class by a large margin.
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Mar 15, 2015 20:27
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Stevefin posted:You won't get famous ship names, but rather the ship hull name, There was talk that famous ships will be premiums, So stuff like Hood,Bismark,Enterprise,so on Fart Car '97 posted:What the gently caress is with the game not rendering torpedoes until they're like 5 seconds from hitting? The last day or so I have played I've died to torpedoes over and over because they just materialize out of nothing far too late for you to do anything about it. Otherwise, you aren't noticing torpedoes that are rendered. The torpedo is visible before it makes the audible warning. Vengarr posted:The higher-tier IJN DDs have 10km-plus range torpedoes. That plus smokescreens give them a lot of utility in large-scale encounters. Don't try to close the range except against distracted targets, or you will explode. e: Desuwa posted:WoWS has penetration mechanics, it's not pure RNG, it's just opaque to users. It's just that with your cursor in the right place there's no much more you can do to get citadel pens. At close range you're sometimes in the situation where a "good" pen roll on a shell will actually cause it to overpen. What it is is a black box that depends on hit zones significantly smaller (at most ranges) than the shell spread, so the only substantial difference from an RNG heavy approach is that certain alpha testers can greatly overstate how good they are because they one shot something and "damage isn't RNG". James Garfield fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 02:59
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[q[/b]uote="NTRabbit" post="442848341"] You're right, American torpedoes do get better - at tier 7, where they push out to 6.8km, matched by the 6km secondary range on the Nagato. Only the American tier 8-10 destroyers can actually safely launch torpedoes outside battleship secondary range and still reliably hit. At tier 4-6 their torpedoes are dregs, and if not for the good guns they'd be completely useless. [/quote] Back to being NTRabbit!
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Mar 17, 2015 17:23
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vandiar posted:Also to echo everyone else the Cleveland is a lot of fun. For the tier 3 commander skill, the cruiser one looks like an active skill. Does that replace the current cruiser AA skill or is it an additional ability? BadLlama posted:So a lot of silly alpha testers are apparently mad that the game isn't WW2 boats simulator with combat ranges of 30Km+ how the hell would that be any fun.
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Mar 17, 2015 20:57
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SuperSix posted:He didn't follow the doctrine of going 1v1 vs a battleship and expecting to win Considering how equal tier battleships and cruisers compare, where even if the cruiser has every advantage in positioning I'd expect a non stupid battleship to win with more than half its health left? Of course I expect to take on an equal tier battleship one on one. We are in the same matchmaking bracket, and in theory destroyers are supposed to counter battleships. Battleships certainly counter cruisers. NTRabbit is fairly consistently wrong about most things but it's painfully obvious that the ship classes aren't balanced.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:01
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"You're a support ship" isn't a great excuse. Battleships are more effective at support than other classes - the biggest threat to a battleship by far is another battleship, and the best counter to that threat is, again, a battleship. It takes a better player to win against a battleship in a non battleship, and the better players are most useful in battleships where they can influence the game more. Destroyers aren't light tank equivalents. Light tanks don't have torpedoes, and light tanks don't need as much a skill mismatch to kill equal-matchmaker-weight tanks. James Garfield fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 23:49
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Destroyers and cruisers are more fun to play than battleships but they are significantly less effective. I don't know what's so hard about that, it's entirely okay to like playing something that isn't strong. Most of my games aren't in battleships. I would pick seven battleships and one destroyer over six battleships and two destroyers, without even thinking twice. I'd also pick eight battleships over any combination of battleships and cruisers, which is a bit of a problem if you think this game doesn't have ships that counter other ships. NerdyMcNerdNerd posted:You could say the same thing about CAs. Why even have them in the game? Why play them? They're objectively worse than battleships, but sit in similar roles.
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Mar 18, 2015 01:08
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Strobe posted:I really need to learn how to shoot battleships. I'm consistently losing, and badly, against BBs lower tier than I am in the Omaha. Both the Kawachi and Myogi are about as accurate as a squirt gun, so being unable to outshoot them is frustrating and I'm probably doing things wrong. Unless it's much worse than the average pubbie, you can't expect to beat a battleship in your cruiser under any circumstances. I'd favor a halfway decent Myogi over a Cleveland. Shoot at the enemy non battleships and hope your battleships aren't as dumb as theirs.
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Mar 21, 2015 01:38
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Harik posted:Well since a lot of skill was ripped out of the game and replaced with RNG, I'm willing to bet that the previously-existing deflection angles are gone as well. Until they put back in practice rooms to test on, there's no real way to tell. Are you reading EmpressNero's posts in the official forums? If so, he's a dumb sperg with no idea how boats works, and no idea what it means to be a "game". Avoid the official forums.
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Mar 21, 2015 05:50
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Fart Car '97 posted:Lol this is so wrong. You should actively be trying to dump long range shots onto turrets or in the middle over the citadel as most people never try to dodge at long range Yesterday I had a Kongo game where I straddled an enemy Kongo with nine consecutive salvos. The enemy eventually found me, shot back and destroyed two turrets in its first two salvos, both of which seemed to be aimed short. I think that's what Harik is getting at. Burt posted:First impressions? It's all a bit too simple. OK I have only tier 2 ships at the moment but it really does seem to be set throttle to max, avoid running into islands, and shoot. As long as you know how to lead shots and have map awareness you seem to have all the skills you need. You must have missed the beta weekends. Tier 2 has always been really simplistic, but at higher tiers the game got a lot more interesting, with every ship class being able to do significant damage to any other ship. It's more like "babysit your battleship players" now but they at least proved they could make am interesting game. Maneuvering your ship to avoid taking damage has always been more challenging than shooting at enemies.
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Mar 21, 2015 15:59
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DonkeyHotay posted:There's no way this is more complex than world of tanks. Armor is effectively taken out of consideration when I can regularly get citadel pens on an Amagi in a Kongo. And the Amagi is a battlecruiser; I've had battleship shells hit a Fuso citadel without penetrating.
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Mar 21, 2015 16:08
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kalven posted:Because range is more important then rate of fire. Because of the way torpedo detection works, longer range is normally a disadvantage. Torpedoes show up far enough away that you'll never hit anyone competent at range. Otherwise, the only thing range does is make your torpedoes proportionally easier to spot. If you launch torpedoes from 5 km, torpedoes with a 20 km range will be spotted the instant they leave your ship, but 5 km torpedoes will only show up when they're more than halfway through. None of the torpedoes in game are fast enough to make up for that disadvantage. That said, 500 meters isn't enough range to make much difference. I'd ignore the range difference completely, and choose based on the other attributes.
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Mar 21, 2015 23:56
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  Propagandist posted:So I've seen people talk about how destroyers aren't great after tier 4-5, American cruisers aren't great after the Cleveland, and carriers just aren't that fun overall. Does the game just get less fun after tier 5, or are there good options past that? The main problem is that the only effective counter to a battleship is another battleship, which gets more and more apparent as you go up in tier. Torpedo detection issues aside, there aren't any bad ship lines, but unlike in the beta weekends you can't take on battleships without a large skill mismatch or extremely favorable circumstances. OSad posted:Do torpedoes have an arming time now? I thought DD's were running rampant in the weekend alphas since they didn't, and you could literally drive-by shotgun other ships to death, but it still doesn't feel like they have one now. Arming range is really short, it starts where the range indicator starts. Long range torpedoing is a losing proposition because torpedoes get spotted from four times as far away as in the weekend alphas. Only an afk ship is likely to take any actual hits. Close range torpedoes aren't that great because you have to close in battleship secondary range to have a good chance of hitting, and if you don't sink it outright you'll die. Even if you do close in and sink a battleship outright, you take unsustainable amounts of damage.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:51
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It's definitely possible to hit ships that are closing on you from outside target lock range.
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Mar 23, 2015 16:44
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The Japanese destroyer line isn't all bad. Tier 6 and up aren't worth playing in their current state, but what this really means is that the best torpedo boat in the game is only at tier 5. If you like shooting torpedoes and making things blow up, get a Minekaze. The ships before it are all playable. Do not under any circumstances upgrade the torpedoes. The upgraded torpedoes trade 11 knots of speed for 3 kilometers of range, but what the game doesn't tell you is that the detection range triples. Between that and the lower speed, enemy ships have almost four times as much time to dodge your torpedoes, and you don't even gain damage. A full salvo of Minekaze torpedoes is almost as strong as a full salvo from the tier 7 destroyer. But there's much less time to dodge the Minekaze torpedoes, and you're firing them at lower tier ships. And the Minekaze is faster, more maneuverable and harder to spot. It also reloads more than twice as fast, because the Minekaze has three dual launchers instead of two triple launchers. That's right, the Minekaze is straight up a better ship than the tier 7 on the same line. There's only a kilometer between your torpedo and detection ranges, but fortunately you're in a Minekaze. You go 39 knots at tier 5, with one of the smallest turning circles in the game and a rudder that shifts instantly. Also your guns are only good for getting you spotted. Basically get a Minekaze if you like fun, it is the best Japanese destroyer in the game. It's like playing a destroyer in the beta weekend. 
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Mar 24, 2015 05:59
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Atal Vataman posted:so im almost done with tier 6 and im losing interest real fast. this game sort of feels like a less complex wot for people who find moving in three dimensions to be too complicated. please help me understand the appeal of this game, i sort of want to like it It gets really uninteresting after probably tier 5. In part because battleships which are "point, shoot and see big numbers, the game" are also much stronger than any of the other classes. I mostly gave up on going up the tiers and just play the Minekaze repeatedly like some kind of nerd. It's fun enough for a free game. 
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Mar 24, 2015 19:36
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It would be really neat if AA were more of an inconvenience to planes and shot down fewer. I'd rather it lowered aircraft accuracy, made bombers drop their torpedoes early or whatever than just kill a plane every N seconds. Right now it really just feels like a mechanism for running carriers out of ammo.
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Mar 24, 2015 22:39
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Prav posted:I didn't realize that the T10s were more expensive than in WOT. That's a hefty chunk of credits. That's interesting, because the boats tier 5s make about twice as much as I remember tier 8 premiums making in tanks. I'm not sure if there's a credit/experience bonus in place, but at least for experience I would guess not.
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Mar 26, 2015 02:04
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Insert name here posted:It's not even the service time that's annoying, it's the speed at which your planes fly so that even when you're trying to sit as far ahead as possible you generally find yourself flying about 1/3 to 1/2 of the map distance wise to the enemy ships which leads to 3 or 4 minutes round time. I'm pretty sure the 95 knot torpedo bombers on the Independence aren't even twice as fast as a 40 knot destroyer. 
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Mar 26, 2015 21:01
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Krataar posted:Any tips for getting through the terrible Phoenix. Such a letdown after the barrage party that was the St. Louis Upgrade the hull and guns. It's just a bad stock boat.
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Mar 26, 2015 22:41
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