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Is there a way for people without PMs to play? I used to play on MafiaScum back in ~the day~ and I've got the itch again, but I don't think I've ever done so on SA so I don't know how y'all roll.
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Mar 14, 2015 09:11
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Byers2142 posted:Ok, I've got a platinum upgrade certificate for Mornacale, but I need his e-mail to give it to him I guess. Unless anyone knows a better way to do it? Whoa, thanks a ton. I e-mailed you, or you can read the following line of this post! Asiina, if you want to email my role while we're working out the logistics on plat, I'm mornacale@mornacale.com (note that Mornacale has two a's in it).
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Mar 15, 2015 00:26
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Hey, so, being as I've never played Lights Out before, is there any accepted wisdom about how it changes strategy? Intuitively, it seems best to still only lynch once on at least the first "day" since any lynches before the first flip are basically just shots in the dark (barring power role business of course).
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Mar 16, 2015 03:34
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TheRam posted:Again this post, where is the scum mind? You surely know the value of a scum life is significantly higher than any individual town life. On D1 in a game with strange roles why would you think this is possibly a viable move? I am not sure if this is your point or your rationalising Amnistars inconsistency or what? Honestly, where is the town mind? It's manifestly obvious that the town want to execute scum today, so telling us "I get a role if we kill scum!" doesn't exactly change our motivations. Only the added detail about the role supposedly getting souped up with multiple kills is useful information for us, and the only upshot of that is to try to convince us to do something that's a strategic mistake. Furthermore, say you are telling the truth: now if we hit one of them today, they know where a power role is (and if we don't, they know where one is not). Since when has claiming power role vs vanilla on d1 ever been useful to town? Meanwhile, as other folks have already pointed out, the scum mind is simply to push for a strategically poor town play while retaining all kinds of plausible deniability: you really "want" us to lynch multiple scums, but you don't have any role information that we can verify with a flip, so if you push for one (or several!) townies then whoops it was a big mistake. I don't think you're dumb enough not to have considered these basic issues before making an early "d1" claim. What I do think is you're the kind of player who'd be willing to fire away at a gambit just to see if they could do it, and that that little discussion of Somber manipulating towns into multiple d1 hammers would entice you to see if you could do it yourself. ##vote TheRam
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Mar 16, 2015 17:25
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TheRam posted:How about this, if I make a good case, convince the town and they flip scum maybe you humour me with a potential second lynch since my powers increase? I'm hoping my powers include BP, and I'm kind of assuming that power level 2 will at least involve some way to prevent myself getting NK'd. I'm making quite a lot of assumptions about my role I guess, but it's a weird role and I'm trying to figure out why it exists in this setup. All the flips happen at the same time at the end of the "day", so there is no way to know whether the first one was scum before any subsequent votes. I don't see how the bolded phrase makes any kind of sense, since your claim (if true) does nothing whatsoever to increase our probability of killing scum d1, and in fact setting yourself (if town) up as the center of discussion probably decreases it. If we imagine "my role happening" to refer solely to getting souped up, then I still see no reason you'd claim now vs after the first hammer. Can you explain why you wouldn't hold off to see if 1) there's a second candidate you feel really solid on, and 2) there's any reasonable chance that we'd hammer a second player even if you claim?
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Mar 16, 2015 17:51
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So according to the OP there is some person in this game called "Dr. Hurt" who has not once posted in this thread, even to sign up or confirm that they exist at all. Am I missing something or is this just some extreme lurking? I'd also like to see actual content--preferably not just metagame calls--from CPig, EXACT, & Meinberg. Also, every time I reread I think "gee, that mythadile is probably a scum," mythadile please confirm/deny this.
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Mar 17, 2015 03:19
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idk why I was so cavalier in that post but just to say actual content besides peoples' names: CPig - nothing but joke posts and a summary of an irrelevant old game, has contributed only to say that he doesn't know if TheRam is scummy EXAKT - contribution solely limited to "TheRam's claim is weird" Meinberg - did post Rolling Start video, that's good, but also has posted nothing else besides a vote with no words accompanying it mythadile - mythadile posted:What a seemingly helpful but lengthy post whose content should be self explanatory. mythadile posted:Tend to agree, I want to hear what the strat is to get us to lynch each other. Seems very weirdly suspicious of people trying to get out of the joke phase via discussion of how town should play under weird rules, including a bandwagon vote. Hasn't posted since.
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Mar 17, 2015 03:31
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Pinterest Mom posted:I think dunking more people is better than dunking fewer. Why? Somberbrero posted:maybe don't call people stupid when they disagree with you, if you want to convince them. Yo Somber, care to offer a little more detail on the bolded? In the meantime, I'm going to ##unvote. I still really dislike Ram's claim, but his posting since getting called out has felt genuine to me. Hard for me to tell if he's town who made a stupid play or scum who realized he needed to clean up his act. Meanwhile, I see pressure building on Somber for what seem mainly to be meta reads, but I've re-read his posting and find myself pretty much in agreement with what he's said so far. A little unnerved by making a big deal of his issues with TheRam without actually applying any pressure; it seems like an interesting way for scumbuds to try to keep from being connected to each other, without having to actually build momentum toward a dunk. But really overall I find him persuasive, so I wish the folks voting for him could somehow communicate why. If not, I'm just going to be extra suspicious of my intuition, which means I need to re-read this thread with fresh eyes tomorrow. mythadile posted:On a different track I am not as nuanced with all the variations and different roles so if people could not use acronyms that would be great. For example I was just reading something about a BP and 3P and have no idea what either of those mean. My mafia experience comes from the first few games held in GBS and this subforum many moons ago. Not sure about BP, but "3P" means "3rd party" i.e. anyone who doesn't win with the town or a mafia (SK/Lyncher/Jester/Survivor/etc).
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Mar 17, 2015 09:40
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Gonna respond to some direct questions toward myself before trying to grapple with all these weird claims.mythadile posted:
My issue with Somber is specifically that he did not really call Ram's actions into question. He spent more ink on saying that he doesn't get along with Ram--"i'm trying desperately to avoid getting sucked into communicating with ram again but it's so hard."--than on making any kind of actual case or argument. Also there is this post where he outright defends Ram. Overall summary of his Ram posts: "I think Ram is scummy, but that's probably just because I don't like his posting v  v". I wouldn't vote Somber for it alone today, but if one of them flips scum I'm taking a hard look at the other.I think TheRam's claim was very scummy, but their posting after getting called out for it was good. I think there are two explanations for that: a townie who made a mistake or a scum who realized a gambit was blowing up in their face. I unvoted because I wanted either a re-read or new posts to help me decide which explanation I favor. "Persuasive" was maybe the wrong word for Somber, but I agree with his posts re: lunching strategy, generally avoiding meta, and this take on Pig. I was re-reading his posts to try to pick up the scumvibe that folks were getting and found myself going "actually I mostly agree with these" which was disconcerting. Byers2142 posted:Morn, why didn't you include Hiip in your list? I was going back over the players, and Hiip's contributions seem in line with CPig/EXAKT/Meinberg in terms of content. Hiip's contributions weren't very useful but they at least existed. The other three had not expressed a single opinion between them.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:43
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I completely agree with Byers's analysis of the Cpig/Pmom fiasco, I don't think there is a sensible scenario where ScumPig makes that claim out of nowhere. I guess Pmom was on Somber and you could play WIFOM games with that hypothetical (Pig was protecting ScumSomber, but actually that's too obvious so Pig was trying to trade himself for Pmom and TownSomber but actually ...) but even those scenarios seem pretty questionable on the risk/reward front. TheRam's play continues to be bizarre. He's now claimed not one but two roles on day 1 with zero pressure, and has used both of them to push single-mindedly for a multi-kill day. For instance in these posts where he continues to ride the Cpig/Pmom train as if he didn't read Byers's post or think about the situation himself. For someone who makes so many bones about scum mind vs town mind, it's startling to see Ram completely fail to consider how either of their play would be scum-minded. Ram, why would you claim again, after two separate players--INCLUDING YOURSELF--had claimed today and had it established as a bad idea? Why are you still pushing Cpig/Pmom; where do you see a scum mind in either claim or vote? ##vote TheRam Further considerations: 1) Would anyone give that ability to TheRam? Assume the ability was given by a scum inventor. The only use scum would have for a sane cop would be to try to hunt 3P, but this can only be used on the dead so it would be useless. So the ability is not sane. Scum wouldn't give an insane cop to one of their own (since they could just make up results if they wanted), so in this scenario Ram is either town or 3p. So the purpose of the exercise for scum would be to get us to hammer additional townies--confirming a scum would require significant luck. But TheRam has probably been established as the least trustworthy town, i.e. the most likely for us to just kill outright. I don't think it's worth it for the scum to waste a power role just to seal a lunch on Ram, and I don't think WIFOM really applies here. So I'm going to say it's implausible the scum would give this ability to Ram. Now, assume the more likely scenario that it was a town inventor. Then it would be (to the best of their knowledge) a sane cop. Now, the inventor might think Ram is a scum, or might believe Ram is town. In the former case, then of course they wouldn't give Ram a power role. In the latter, though, I think it actually is plausible. Anyone looking to give this ability today is inherently opening up the possibility that the person who got it will claim today and use it to push for a multi-lunch (god this post is making me hungry jeez), thereby raising their profile and quite possibly getting them killed. The Ram, if town, is quite well suited for that: they've already put themselves in the town's crosshairs, and since they claimed already the scum already know whether they want to get nightkilled. Plus they're active and (if you believe the original claim) have a vested interest in using the ability. So imo I think it's plausible that a townie would give this ability to Ram. (But I don't believe it.) 2) Can we use this claim to confirm Ram as town? If Ram is town, then they would report their investigation honestly. But a scum also knows who the scum are (with the exception of 3P) and therefore could most likely replicate their result. However, the exception for serial killers gives us some information, namely: a) if Ram accurately reports a result, then they are less likely to be a 3P; b) if Ram reports a scum result on a 3P, I would consider them confirmed town. But since the major threat is the mafia, and we will probably not lunch a 3P (unless Ram is one, which I think is very possible), these considerations are probably not useful. So, I would say no to a potential "don't lunch Ram until we kill someone else and get the report on them" plan (though to be clear if someone else looks the scummiest then by all means I'm on board). fake e: Oh jeez this Pmom counterclaim what in the world
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Mar 17, 2015 19:37
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Initial take: counterclaiming here is town-minded. If Ram's not mafia, then there's no reason to derail mounting pressure on him in order to trade one-for-one with Cpig. Especially in light of Cpig being non-helpful so far and their role being of limited utility after claiming. If Ram is mafia, it's the same 1-for-1 trade and then pressure goes directly back onto Ram. The only compelling scenario I can see is a Ram/Pmom scumteam trying an extremely convoluted gambit involving Ram's claimed investigative ability. Let's see how that works. Scenario 1 1) Pmom counterclaims and we hammer TownPig. 2) Ram "investigates" TownPig and gives result: town. 3) We kill Pmom. 4) Pig flips town and Pmom flips scum. 5) We return to be suspicious of Ram and his only defense is a WIFOM that if he was scum he'd have lied about Pig (see scenario 2). 6) Ram may or may not gain some bonus powers. This plan seems incredibly risky at best and outright suicidal at worst. Scenario 2 1) Pmom counterclaims and we hammer TownPig. 2) Ram "investigates" TownPig and gives result: scum. 3) Pig flips town. 4) We almost certainly lunch both Ram and Pmom tomorrow, unless they can convince us that there are actually two self-watchers and/or Ram had an insane one-shot corpsecop. This plan seems absolutely awful to the extent that the WIFOM in Scenario 1 would be useless. And then I guess we can play WIFOM games with whether or not Ram/Pmom would expect this level of analysis and thus make this play in order to make us believe that they're not both scum, but mehhhhhhh. Did I miss anything?
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Mar 17, 2015 19:57
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Hey PMom, you came into the thread looking to kill multiple people d1. At the time I didn't want to press you too much on it for fear of revealing another power role, but in light of your claim I am left wondering why. Also, have you used your self-watch yet? When will you get the results?
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Mar 17, 2015 20:56
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Kumbamontu posted:
Both telling the truth about what? I think you may be confused about the claims in play. CPig claimed self-watcher and that Pmom visited him, Pmom counter-claimed self-watcher. Given that presumably they both are claiming to have received these as their original roles, there's no way that a scum role could influence them.
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Mar 17, 2015 20:59
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Pinterest Mom posted:Like I said, bias towards town taking the initiative. Okay, so, you PM Asiina saying "I would like to self-watch" and then 48 hours later Asiina will say "okay here is everyone who visited you in the last 48 hours"? Is that how it works, or am I missing any details?
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Mar 17, 2015 21:20
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CPig, could you confirm that your claim is that you PM Asiina and say "I would like to self-watch" and then for the next 48 hours you get told any time someone visits you? Are there any other details I'm missing/forgetting?
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Mar 17, 2015 21:31
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It's weird to me that a self-watcher would have a duration but no cooldown; why wouldn't the player just keep it on at all times? But since both claims are the same on that end, I guess it gives us nothing. I suppose either of these claims is verifiable if we have someone who can target them, but I have no idea if trying to do so would be worthwhile. Honestly, I'm so befuddled by how either of these claims makes sense from a scum perspective.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:20
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Pinterest Mom posted:Oh I'm on 48 hour cool down. What? Do you mean that your ability has a 48 hour duration and a 48 hour cooldown simultaneously, or that the cooldown occurs after the duration?
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Mar 17, 2015 22:27
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Barring some serious developments, I'm out on a Pmom lunch today. If he's telling the truth, then it's very likely the scum got a rolecop result on him--the possibility of just accidentally claiming a self-watcher result against the actual self-watcher is too crazy. Which means that Pmom's going to catch scum when their report comes or at the very least eat a nightkill. The possibility of catching two scum on this thing is worth the danger of delaying a scum kill til tomorrow. In fact, possible plan: 1) wait for deadline "today" and lunch CPig 2) get results from Pmom 3) if CPig flipped town, lunch Pmom promptly 4) Ram uses his claimed corpsecop on Pmom idk, after spelling it out I'm not sure if it's really as great as I thought, but I may as well get feedback. I'm also not averse to killing Ram today (hence my continued vote ofc) and also EXAKT has still yet to make any kind of contribution so yuck to that.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:04
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TheRam posted:I also think anyone would be lying if they thought PMom is some great tragic loss D1 if he's somehow town, it allows you to have the possibility to verify my cop, attempt to turbocharge your executioner and also puts my neck immediately on the line if I lie. I understand if there'd be ambiguity over my alignment if PMom flips town, but if PMom flips scum we can all spend wayyyy less time fretting about Uncle Ram who has your back. The only thing that verifies your cop is catching a 3p with it, and the idea that any result from PMom's execution would verify you is way scummy imo. Amni, why do you think neither Cpig nor Pmom is scum? Why are you pushing EXAKT over e.g. Ram, who you previously called to kill?
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Mar 17, 2015 23:14
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That Amnistar vote is god-awful. Unrelated, is Amni new or old or medium? Also, Cpig, what time did you get targeted?
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Mar 18, 2015 02:35
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btw, definitely nothing has happened to convince me that it's not worth waiting to at least hear a result on Pmom's self-watch, especially since we can hang multiple people per day. Our number one goal should be to build up as much information as possible while it's not EXLO, since we could take the scums down all in one fell swoop if necessary. CPig, I just want to be perfectly clear, the time in question is when you received the PM notifying you? That is, the PM did not indicate a specific time you were visited? btw, I'm really annoyed about the Dr Hurt/PMom replacement here, since it very inconveniently puts the 48-hour window right after the deadline.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:48
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TheRam posted:okay how about this Okay so I'm re-reading and I think I may have wildly misunderstood your claim. Are you saying that someone gave you a permanent power role, not a one-shot?
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Mar 18, 2015 03:16
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someone gave me a power, I can cop an unflipped player
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Amnistar posted:And the biggest reason I want to avoid the PMOM/CPIG lynch right now is because EVERYONE that is on that one is saying, let's lynch one of them, then if they flip town OBVIOUSLY the other one is scum. Amnistar posted:Alright so I'm going to just post what I'm thinking right now with regards to how I am placing this vote:  You want to avoid the dunk of someone in that pair...so...with still 24 hours to go until deadline...you suddenly restrict yourself to that pair...and put one of them at dunk-2? But then you get pushback and immediately hop back onto the Ram bandwagon? You're playing an incredibly skittish game and I don't like it one bit. So now the question is whether you or Ram is scummier for today. Note the "for today" because I'm not at all convinced that one of you being scum exonerates the other. Actually, I have this scenario in my head that I think explains a ton of Ram play, though it's pretty  . Say Ram is godfather. He plays wild on d1, knowing that there's a good chance of drawing an investigation that he will pass. At the same time, he works to set up several hammers today, so he can bus a scumbuddy (either Amni or Pmom) but still kill one or two townies. But now, if he does hit scum, then he has claimed a power role, so how does he explain surviving the night? Easy, he simply suggests that the benefit of hitting scum will be to get BP, then confirms it after the flip. Now, if they're lucky, we have a godfather with a good town reputation, a Town cop result, and a built-in reason not to be targeted by SKs/vigs. That seems like an extremely strong position that's well worth sacrificing a lackey for.Anyhoo, here are the sum of my notes from re-reading: Amnistar - seems kind of nervous; mafia, or town that doesn't want to mess up? really not contributing anything of substance, I can get behind them as scum; may be getting hard bussed by Ram?; doing really terrible and bad bandwagon hopping lately Byers -  CPig - pushing PMom as scum is really bad and his claim was poorly developed, defending himself with "whoaoaoaoa I'm so wacky" is gross; not really doing much that's specifically scum-minded though, idk Ernie - makes a thing about having the "first case" on Somber but in fact had no real case at all, but then makes several solid posts, but then gets weirdly defensive EXAKT - lurker  ; comes back, but then says he's going to get replaced, but then says he's going to stay, and then gives some takes but very little reasoningHiipFire - lurker ; returns to make weird dumb case on Pmom, then some weird casting aroundKumba - not a lot of content but seems cool Meinberg - lurker mythadile - Pmom - strong early push on Ram and Somber , but also wanting to lynch multiple for no reason ; reacted to CPig claim in a consistent manner; I was previously confused about them ignoring Byers' reasoning, but now it's consistent with their counterclaim; like their play up until "mega-bussing Somber" and "role fishing scum" and especially sleep schedule postRam - obsessed with killing multiples d1; strong SK/lyncher vibe; wild swing on Pmom for no good reason, but legit on Amni; second roleclaim is suuuuch convenient timing and he makes it along with setting up multiple excuses for things going wrong; either doesn't think through the implications of his claims/events or is a liar; continues to act like lunching town isn't so bad because it gives him a chance to kill people, continues to try to run the town Somber - weird; mix of low-hanging fruit and good calls, esp w/r/t Ram; feeling more solid to me as the day progresses, but take hard look if Ram is town Top 3 Scum 1t. Ram 1t. Amnistar 3. Meinberg
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Mar 18, 2015 04:36
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Bonus good and smart content you should read: 1) has anyone yet mentioned the possibility that the difference in CPig and PMom's roles is due to them both being self-watchers but one being town and one mafia? Not saying I have reason to believe this but just think it's important to have all the possibilities in our minds whenever it does come time to resolve that puzzle 2) If we decide to dunk someone besides The Ram today, we should be absolutely sure that Ram gets to vote for them and also that we do it with time for Ram to do and report and investigation (this stuff is obvious but I'd rather say it just in case than not say it and we screw up)
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Mar 18, 2015 04:41
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Mornacale posted:Bonus good and smart content you should read: Actually this isn't good and smart after all because CPig claimed that PMom visited him which would not make sense if they were both self-watchers unless CPig is scum doing a realllllllllyyyyyy weird play (even weirder than this whole thing in general). Whoops, sorry.
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Mar 18, 2015 05:49
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mythadile posted:Morn, was your take of Ram (who I believe is sleeping?) that he needs to be around 30 minutes after a lynch to do his new found cop thing? I'm not sure if I follow what you're asking. Basically, I think Ram is lying about his claims, but in the event that I'm wrong and he's town then I want to maximize the chance that he gets powers and also ensure that there's time between the hammer and flip for him to PM Asiina, get a PM back, and then post the results in the thread. If this isn't answering your question then I'm afraid you'll have to rephrase. Ernie, sorry you don't think my content is very helpful. Care to explain what you find put on about my disliking Ram, given that I've had my vote parked on them for 80% of the game and would like to convince you to join me? Anyway, speaking of Ram, I'm going to reiterate my question just so they don't miss it: Ram, are you claiming a one-shot daycop or a repeatable ability? If the latter, what are the parameters w/r/t cooldowns or whatnot?
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Mar 18, 2015 07:55
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TheRam posted:If PMom got visited by multiple people this could be true, but PMom didn't say that. I said that it's possible that whoever visited PMom did something to trick CPig. If PMom doesn't think that then town PMom should be pushing for the most suspect person in the game to them. Which should be CPig. PMom isn't doing this. This thread is active enough that worrying about a no lynch is obviously fake as fuuuuckkkk. Note that you "offering an elaborate strategy" is, unless I totally missed it, just a summary of a plan that I offered several pages ago and, in fact, reiterated. Now that you've confirmed that you're claiming a one-shot cop thing, would you like to explain for the class how your initial roleclaim included the sentence TheRam posted:If they flip scum then we know the flip-cop thing was sane at least once (or whatever the opposite of naive is). Another bad lie is your repeated insistence that you're verifiable in any way, outside of very tight constraints like deathcopping an SK. Where's the town mind in continually telling us to verify the unverifiable?
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Mar 18, 2015 14:01
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TheRam posted:No, this is your emotional response to my unapologetic "misuse" of the idea of confirmed town. When I said "drat near confirmed" what I am saying is that under any circumstance I deliver scum, and this is confirmed to the town by a flip, to continue pushing me as part of the same faction is to say that I am hard-bussing. TheRam posted:I'm potentially verifiable to a greater extent than most people here, lynching me today is just lazy and dumb. So just to be clear, the "verifiability" you're talking about here is the idea that we should dunk all the people (four of them, if our first choice of CPig/PMom is town!) you say you dislike in order to "verify" that you are in fact town. Say we kill all four of these targets; how many scum would have to be among them to make you Confirmed Town, exactly? Do you understand why I am suspicious of someone saying "okay well kill these three or four other people and you'll see," completely disregarding my ~feelings~ on your play style, especially when they already claimed VT? Serious questions. Also, btw, you stated in this very thread that you "had to get into hard bussing wherever my team mates we (sic) down with it" so I would have to be pretty stupid to consider you even the most informal kind of confirmed if you lead a dunk on scum. But yeah, when you knowingly play scummy and it hurts the town, you share responsibility for "throwing" that game. Trying to make it into "a meme" that you come off as scum is just a meta ploy that disguises when you are actually a bad guy and, when town, is selfish play. Account for your actual actions--in particular your repeated push for an anti-town strategy of multiple d1 hammers--stop trying to make us consider you town-by-default by virtue of repetition. I don't want to get into a metagame argument here but I'm absolutely not buying any defense based on Memes. That said, I do want to do a re-read on you ignoring all the weird claim stuff and trying to focus on the genuineness of your scum-catching; my take right now is you've been tunneled pretty badly on Amni and Byers all day but I could be wrong. (btw I think you're a fun dude I'm not trying to get personal  )
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Mar 18, 2015 15:21
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TheRam posted:To be clear, my ideal scenario for today is, as it always was - lynch someone, get their flip via my cop (which'll be confirmed at the end of the day) and then consider lynching someone else if time permits because yes, I do have a specific pro-town reason why I have a more laissez faire stance on multiple lynches. According to your claim (which I quote below), there's still no reason to lunch twice d1. If I knew for a fact that your claim was true, my strategy would be to try to kill scum right before d1 deadline, wait for a flip so we have some verified info, and then if they were in fact scum to go for the next target within a (real-life) day. Two scums in 24 hours, without having to go in blind on both or to trust a weird cop thing. Plus, in the off chance that your role from the first kill is investigative, it could help catch the second one. TheRam posted:Okay, I am 24. So, from re-reading this, two things: 1) I'm suspicious that the flavor sort of matches the mechanics (24 and a 24-hour window to kill scum), since we were told that wouldn't be done. Thinking more, this is probably paranoia because I'm already suspicious of you, but I'm saying it in case anyone else gets that impression too. 2) Please verify with Asiina if you will get your power/upgrade as soon as the hammer is dropped or what. If so, then your second claimed power is actually redundant, since you were secretly a corpsecop already.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:40
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Kumbamontu posted:I have an interview this afternoon which I am panicking about atm, but I should be around later near deadline. I won't be around much during the daylight hours. I had one this morning and it went okay. I am a mafia player and you are also a mafia player, therefore we are alike. Therefore yours will go okay too! Good luck.
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Mar 18, 2015 17:41
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Pinterest Mom posted:I honestly feel like I'm in bizarro world when I see a bunch of people posting that Cpig comes off better in the Cpig/me exchange~ I think that you came off very solid in the initial exchange, but some of your subsequent play--such as saying the Ram is rolefishing right after you made a roleclaim, or trying to parse the mod's sleep schedule to get momentum on CPig--is shady to me. In addition, it's tremendously tremendously unlikely that scum would accidentally use a claim of your very role to finger you without something additional going on, and I think trying to get a handle on what that might be is short-circuiting everyone's brain. By the way, this is part of why I think you should almost definitely reveal your self-watch results tomorrow. If you're town and CPig is scum, then CPig is making a gambit that very likely ends in a 1-for-1 town/scum trade. Why might they do this? I could see the gambit if they're lyncher and you're the lynchee; but then either the roleclaim was a baffling coincidence, or they also knew your role, which would be weird. Alternately, if they're mafia, then 1) they probably know your role because a mafia rolecop targeted you, and 2) they think a 1-for-1 trade is better than the alternative, indicating that you have some hot info. Meanwhile, the other part of why I want you to reveal is that if you're not town, then you are very likely not a self-watcher, and consequently you're going to be in a real tight spot and we will very likely catch you lying. Even if you and CPig are both town, then there's some kind of shenanigan that led to them thinking you visited, and that means there's a non-zero chance that a scum visited you as well. Of course if, say, CPig dies and flips Mafia Rolecop, I would be satisfied to let you play your role out at your discretion, but I don't see that as a high likelihood at this juncture. So I think it will probably be, on balance, best for the town if you reveal.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:30
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Also, Jesus Christ Ram.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:32
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Okay, so, the current state of Ram's claim is:pre:Town Executioner, can activate a power such that if a scum is killed other than via nightkill in the next 72 hours, he gets a power, and if two scums are killed he gets a super power. pre:Town Executioner, if he is on the bandwagon of a scum then he gets a power; if he's on the bandwagon of two scums within 24 hours--or maybe it's supposed to be a single game day but actually he just said 24 hours--he gets super powers. Now, Ram is outright stating that his fullclaim was done as an intentional lie to attempt to manipulate the voting patterns of the town toward a plan that is fundamentally not consistent with good town play. Is there a single town-minded explanation for this? Because I can't see one.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:48
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Oh god I broke the tables, would someone please quote my post for posterity so I can edit it without fishiness?
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Mar 18, 2015 18:49
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Ernie. posted:wrong, his plan all along was to fake-claim his role, in your opinion, yes? His plan, imo, was to fake-claim this specific executioner role to try to get multiple d1 lunches. I don't know how y'all roll here, but I think it would be pretty weird if you can ask a mod "hey, please give me a fakeclaim to support me pushing this particular line of play". So he made up a role, then when pushed for specifics he got caught lying. Remember, the original claim was made without prompting in his very first post in this thread. If it's fake, then either 1) he got a fakeclaim from Asiina with his role and centered his whole strategy around it, or 2) he made it up on his own. Ernie. posted:and we're arguing in circles. i don't see a scum motivation for this entire charade!! The scum would have been at an advantage thanks to TheRam's play if we killed multiple people d1, but instead they are at a disadvantage because the gambit has failed.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:02
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I still think Amni looks very good for scum. I am really ambivalent about Hiip, something about their posting seems off to me but I can't tell if it's just aesthetics. EXAKT and Meinberg are lurking really bad and I wouldn't be at all unhappy to use our Lights Out multi-lynch powers to excise them if they don't get more involved soon. Byers, Ernie, Kumba, and mythadile feel alright to me so far. Ernie had some weirdness w/r/t a case on Somber that didn't really exist, but his Ram defense seens genuine. Kumba and myth haven't posted in a while so I hope they have time soon. CPig/PMom is a mess and I made an in-depth PMom post not too long ago so I won't revisit him. I don't see why CPig would do what he did as scum, but I also don't see why he'd do it as town. My read on Somber goes from mildly scum to mildly town and back every 3 or 4 pages. Ram is a big ole scum.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:14
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Ram I wish that your cop claim could actually verify you. But alas and alack.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:23
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Oh cool new page, sorry again to everyone for that last page, I thought pre worked like quote but no it does not. Also, point of order, am I to understand from the reaction to me last page that it's okay to ninja-edit? I would have done that but the last thing I want to do is break the cardinal rule my first time out.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:25
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Ernie. posted:got you right where i want you, now stay with me The upside of his screwup for scum is to advocate for blind lunches. The upside of his screwup for town is....? Ernie. posted:Disagreed! Scum really, really don't want to build any connections that they don't have to in a lights-out game, because they might lose all their members in a single day-cycle. Playing as TheRam has confirms at the very least you as town if he flips. This is pretty persuasive, though. Hmm.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:32
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I am actually going to ##unvote real quick, I prefer to wait closer to deadline and also to think over Ernie's latest point.
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Mar 18, 2015 19:34
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